Challenge for Paul Trejo -- Why would the US Government cover up a Gen. Walker conspiracy?

[Michael Clark]

11 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

 

If Oswald is no commie, but the Radical Right (aka DPD / Dallas DA) is blaming Oswald, Hoover now knows who is behind the assassination...it is neither Oswald nor the commies.

JW

Well, I don't see that as a necessary conclusion. The Dallas and right wing elements are leaving the FBI no choice but to blame Oswald. But, They are actually doing very little to make that happen on their own. For example, we would never have heard a peep about a mauser, and there never would have been a call to get all hands out to see what's going on in the railroad yard, if they were the ones he'll bent on blaming Oswald. There are further examples.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Ok, no problem, one thing that makes this forum hard is that all of us have different facts we know are true but can't cite because we read it once and didn't write it down; I'm trying to avoid that although I need reminding from you.

 

Jason

If it were from any of the other chapters I could have and would have searched for walkers name, and come back with my results. I just don't have 6.

[Jason Ward]

15 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Well, I don't see that as a necessary conclusion. The Dallas and right wing elements are leaving the FBI no choice but to blame Oswald. They are actually doing very little to make that happen on their own. For example, we would never have heard a peep about a mouser, and there never would have been a call to get all hands out to see what's going on in the railroad yard, if they were the ones he'll bent on blaming Oswald. There are further examples.

Think it over tonight and review all the angles.  Remember what Hoover ALREADY knows before the shots are fired: he knows someone is sheep-dipping Oswald as a communist.  In fact, the name Lee Harvey Oswald is on fire in teletype traffic in the weeks before the assassination.    People today don't recognize this and how it impacts Hoover on 22 November.   For weeks he's been hearing about this Oswald guy, about the fake Mexico City thing, about New Orleans.

...and then!  None other than the now famous Oswald is miraculously arrested in the Tx Theater shortly after the assassination and named the lone gunmen by DPD.

It all stinks to high heaven from Hoover's perspective, he realizes immediately its a set-up....and since the radical Left is not behind it, and since the Radical Right are now blaming someone he knows to be a false communist -AND- the guy who has been hot on the teletypes for the past few weeks in obvious sheep-dipping efforts, it can only be those in a league with the DPD behind it.

[btw: read into Sheriff Decker.  Especially his meeting with Audie Murphy.  The Dallas SHERIFF's department is certainly NOT in on the conspiracy - hence you have sheriff's deputy Craig mouthing off the truth (Mauser, Oswald hoping into the station wagon, etc.) because he is not in on the conspiracy.   The top of the DPD is precisely controlling the narrative to blame the fake-commie - yet, sure, there is leakage because the sheriff is not onboard with the plan, and of course even honest DPD cops mouth off before they can be "corrected" by their superiors.]

Even so, I kind of agree that Hoover (and LBJ) had little choice but to blame Oswald.  But Hoover knows the truth....those who sheep dip Oswald and those who name Oswald as the patsy are the only possible leaders of the conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

 

Jason

Edited August 24, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Think it over tonight and review all the angles.  

Jason

I will. Don't be surprised if I come up with something that looks like my working pet CT; which was half typed-out, before you replied;) Alas, I will give it a rest.

Cheers,

Mike

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

The CIA has said from day one they knew nothing of Oswald. They had no files on him and no pictures. 

If the CIA said they knew the picture of mystery man was not Oswald, then the question would be how do you know? By showing a picture of mystery man insinuating it was Oswald meant to the WC and the public that the CIA did not know Oswald. They've kept up the charade of not knowing Oswald before the assassination for 50 + years.

The impersonation of Oswald is extremely important. It means Oswald never travelled to Mexico City and that he really did visit Odio.

The Warren Commission has evidence Oswald travelld by bus from Houston to Laredo. But nothing on New Orleans to Houston. So a one transaction ticket doesn't seem possible.

Oswald's handler in Dallas is David Atlee Phillips.

 

[Jason Ward]

2 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

I will. Don't be surprised if I come up with something that looks like my working pet CT; which was half typed-out, before you replied;) Alas, I will give it a rest.

Cheers,

Mike

Also, I am not as convinced about Walker's leadership role as much as Paul.   I am convinced of the Right Wing's role.   As far as I can tell it may be Walker or the Hunt family or Clint Murchison or other Milteer types in charge, it may even by more like a committee.   Walker is in 63 the wunderkind of the silent majority (or silent plurality) who hate de-segregation, hate the commies, and hate peace instead of war.   Although the passionate issues today are different than in 63, there are some similarities between Walker in 63 and  Trump in 2016....the geographic support is the same, the nationalism is the same, etc.

Walker is the source who connects the 10April shooting at his house with Oswald.  Not Ruth Paine.  Walker does this the day after the assassination through a small leak in the Dallas Morning News, and a few days later in a Munich newspaper.   HOW DOES WALKER KNOW OSWALD SHOT AT HIM BEFORE IT IS RELEASED IN THE PAPERS UNLESS HE HAS INSIGHTS INTO OSWALD'S ACTIVITIES PRE-ASSASSINATION?????   AS INDICATED BY THE JOHN MARTIN FILM?????   It's evidence such as this that makes Paul tag Walker as the leader, I'm just saying the evidence doesn't exclude other leaders like the Hunts insofar as I've studied it.

 

going to bed now!  Put yourself in Hoover's place reading all those teletypes we read today.   On Nov. 22 Oswald is already a familiar name to Hoover, and Hoover is even a bit puzzled as to why someone is trying to sheep-dip this kid as a hyper-communist in such desperate ways.  It all crystalizes perfectly in Hoover's mind when the familar name Oswald is astonishingly trotted out by the DPD as the lone assassin......it's a set up by the people who control the DPD, who are........

 

Jason

[Jason Ward]

15 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

 

If the CIA said they knew the picture of mystery man was not Oswald, then the question would be how do you know? By showing a picture of mystery man insinuating it was Oswald meant to the WC and the public that the CIA did not know Oswald. They've kept up the charade of not knowing Oswald before the assassination for 50 + years.

The impersonation of Oswald is extremely important. It means Oswald never travelled to Mexico City and that he really did visit Odio.

 

 

George, I think I politely take a different view.

1 - In Mexico City, the CIA did not know Oswald.   Somewhere in the millions of files in Langley, yes, they knew Oswald.  But at the time the embassy-play-acting-as-a-communist Oswald appears (who happens to know only to call the one line the CIA records at the Soviet embassy (the military attache but not the main embassy line))....at this point, no the CIA people in MC do not know who Oswald is by sight.   IMO.  They take pictures of the guy calling himself Oswald in MC.  They realize later this is neither the same man in Dallas nor the same man in CIA files.  In my view.  But ultimately, George, we can erase the whole Mexico City incident and still come to the same conclusions about who ran the conspiracy...MC is not critical.  IMO.

2 - I don't see the impersonation in MC as very important except that it shows someone is trying to guild the lily and make LHO into an even better communist than he was before.   It doesn't matter whether or not the real LHO is in Mexico or Houston or visiting Odio.  The only thing that matters is that SOMEONE wants us to think Oswald is in Mexico City and that SOMEONE wants us to believe LHO is a radical commie who wants to get to Moscow yesterday.  Oswald may have visited Odio.  Or no.  It doesn't matter.  

What matters most is what they want us to think, it matters somewhat less what actually happened.   The CIA trotting out the non-Oswald-Oswald makes them look like dupes; the smarter play would have simply been to send along a real picture of Oswald, but they didn't have one and didn't know who he was anyway.

 

thanks for the polite conversation

Jason

Edited August 24, 2017 by Jason Ward

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

Phillips, Oswald's handler, was in Mexico City when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City. He knew Oswald.

The impersonation is important because

1) proves Oswald did not travel to Mexico City

2) it must have been his handler, Phillips, who ordered him to Dallas

3) when Oswald arrives in Dallas his handler begins to set him up as patsy.

So the answer to your question ... when did Oswald become the patsy ... the answer is 26 Sep 1963.

It's been great to discuss this issue with you. I look forward to discuss other issues with you in the future. I believe our abilities to analyze the evidence are similar.

[Paul Trejo]

18 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you have any evidence that Hoover knew Oswald was a fake commie? I don't think you do. 

Sandy,

By 3pm EST, J. Edgar Hoover calls RFK on the telephone and tells him point blank -- Lee Harvey Oswald is not a registered Communist.

The FBI knew all of the registered Communists in the USA.  They had a list.

This is part of the official FBI record.  These records have been posted on the Forum often.   Did you miss them?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 3:07 PM, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

Hoover knew he was a fake commie.

But did he know who was pulling his strings in Dallas? Banister was out of the picture when Oswald wound up in Dallas, expertly lured there by someone who did not have to divulge why he (Oswald) was wanted in Dallas.

George,

The following is my opinion:

Fifty-four years ago J. Edgar Hoover knew the US Radical Right wing better than most historians today.

Hoover knew very well that Ex-General Walker had organized the humiliation of Adlai Stevenson -- everybody in Dallas knew it.  It was in print.

Hoover knew very well that the JBS was very strong in Dallas, making Dallas famous for its Radical Right posture.

Hoover knew very well that H.L. Hunt was backing Ex-General Walker in almost everything he did -- including the house in which Walker was living.

Hoover knew very well that FBI agent James Hosty was keeping a close eye on "Walker and his Minutemen" in Dallas (cf. Hosty, Assignment Oswald, 1996)

Hoover knew very well that James Hosty and Robert Allen Surrey were bridge partners (cf. Penn Jones Jr., 1968)

Hoover knew very well that Guy Banister and Ex-General Walker shared the same politics and the same friends in New Orleans.

This was all OBVIOUS to Hoover, as it is only dawning on some of us today.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

9 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

Phillips, Oswald's handler, was in Mexico City when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City. He knew Oswald.

The impersonation is important because

1) proves Oswald did not travel to Mexico City

2) it must have been his handler, Phillips, who ordered him to Dallas

3) when Oswald arrives in Dallas his handler begins to set him up as patsy.

So the answer to your question ... when did Oswald become the patsy ... the answer is 26 Sep 1963.

It's been great to discuss this issue with you. I look forward to discuss other issues with you in the future. I believe our abilities to analyze the evidence are similar.

George,

The following is my opinion:

1.0.  You are presuming that CIA agent David Atlee Phillips was "Oswald's handler."   You do not allow for the fact that Oswald had different, competing handlers.

1.1.  In his novel, "The AMLASH Legacy (1988)" Phillips says that he worked with Banister in New Orleans and Mexico City to sheep-dip Oswald, to try to sneak him into Cuba to kill Fidel Castro.

1.2.  However, says Phillips, "somebody hijacked Oswald" to use him for the JFK assassination.

1.3.  I will take that as a hidden confession.  That comes from Phillips himself, so I take it very seriously.  I accept it as true.

2.0.  That means that Phillips was Oswald's "handler in the conspiracy to assassinate Fidel Castro."   Period.

2.1.  The person who sends Oswald to Dallas -- according to Harry Dean -- is Guy Gabaldon, served by the two men who drove Oswald to Mexico City -- Loran Hall and Larry Howard.

2.2.  Oswald was selected as a POTENTIAL Patsy in mid-August, 1963, after the TV broadcast of Oswald as an FPCC officer goes viral around the US Radical Right.  This is what Harry Dean says, and I say it accords with many other facts.

3.0.  Oswald is selected as the ACTUAL Patsy in mid-September, 1963, during a SoCal meeting of rogues from the JBS, including Guy Gabaldon, Ex-General Walker and Harry Dean.  Harry Dean adds his encouragement to the plot.

3.1. When Oswald is in Mexico City -- he was already selected as the Patsy, as proved by the entry of David Morales into the plot, who IMPERSONATED Oswald by using a Cuban Consulate telephone call to the Soviet Embassy, and linking Oswald's name with Kostikov's name.  This is the end of September, start of October, 1963.

3.2.  When Oswald arrives in Dallas in early October, 1963, he is already marked as the Patsy.  The only goal now is to get his personal rifle from him, and shoot him in the streets after the JFK murder.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 24, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Sandy Larsen]

19 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

The NOLA FPCC gig was CIA. Bannister and Hoover would have known LHO was no Commie. Trejo can call rogue all he wants. It doesn't put his hero in charge of anything.

Michael,

If the FPCC gig was CIA (which I too believe it was), why would Hoover have known (shortly after the assassination) that Oswald was no commie?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

19 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

544 Camp Street

Home of:

1. Guy Banister
2. E Howard Hunt
3. Lee Harvey Oswald

Hoover knows this because he knows where Banister's office is and knows what Banister's up to in New Orleans from his local agents.   The address is on the back of the FPCC flyers Oswald hands out on Canal St.    

When you see 2 hard ass Cold Warrior anti-communists like Banister and Hunt with a passion for cloak and dagger intrigue shacking up with Oswald, who do you think the masters are and who is the servant?   Do you think somehow in Oswald's strange request for a private interview with the FBI while in jail in New Orleans, it is not immediately apparent to Hoover that the whole Canal Street scuffle was staged?   Hoover sees Banister + Hunt + Oswald + the fake FPCC chapter in New Orleans = Hoover knows someone is desperately painting Oswald as a communist which in turn means he is no communist at all.

You believe Hoover cannot connect the dots between Banister-Oswald-Hunt?

Jason

 

Not right away.

I don't believe Banister was on Hoover's radar at the time of the shooting. And I think Banister was keeping his mouth shut after watching Oswald get gunned down at police headquarters.

I don't know when Hoover first discovered the 544 Camp Street address on Oswald's flyers, or when he realized that Banister was in the same building (along with others, BTW). But I'm sure he was confused by it when it came to his attention. Because every other piece of evidence screamed commie plot.

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

20 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

On 8/23/2017 at 1:39 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Do you have any evidence that Hoover knew Oswald was a fake commie? I don't think you do.

 

 

Hoover knew the whole sheep-dipping exercise in Mexico City was fake and not the real Oswald.  Hoover knew that someone/something was desperate to paint Oswald as a communist in applying for a Cuban/Soviet visa.  This means Hoover knows Oswald is no commie - because if he were, there would be no need to have fake Oswald apply for Cuban-Soviet visas. Since Hoover knew the Mexico City Oswald stories were fake, he knew Oswald was not the communist the Dallas radical right made him out to be an hour or two after the assassination.

 

Although Hoover publicly adopted the view that Oswald acted alone, he told his colleagues that he couldn’t forget the CIA’s “false story re Oswald’s trip in Mexico City”.

The evidence Hoover knew Mexico City was a total fake-commie-sheep-dipping effort is here, among many other sources:

1.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html

2. 

In Detail:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/oswald-the-cia-and-mexico-city/

Jason,

You say you have evidence that Hoover knew shortly after the assassination  that Oswald was a fake commie. But when I ask for evidence, all you give me are links.

The links may or may not point to the evidence you believe you have. But I'm not going to find it for you. So I will continue believing you have no such evidence.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

9 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Sandy,

By 3pm EST, J. Edgar Hoover calls RFK on the telephone and tells him point blank -- Lee Harvey Oswald is not a registered Communist.

The FBI knew all of the registered Communists in the USA.  They had a list.

This is part of the official FBI record.  These records have been posted on the Forum often.   Did you miss them?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

You don't need to be a registered communist to be a communist.

Regardless, even Oswald said (in NOLA) that he was a Marxist and not a communist. So that's the label we should be using. But I don't mind using communist.