Challenge for Paul Trejo -- Why would the US Government cover up a Gen. Walker conspiracy?

[Jason Ward]

Is it merely a coincidence that General Walker attends a meeting in Dallas of the DRE --- keeping in mind that Carlos Bringuier is head of the DRE in New Orleans and fights with Oswald on Canal Street?

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145526#relPageId=18&tab=page

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

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Wow, this Air Force officer sure has an amazing ability to deduce a key narrative of the WR days before Marina/Paine/The CIA produced Oswald's letter implicating himself in the 10Apr63 shooting at the Walker residence.  I wonder why "Major Tartin" is anxious to link Oswald to the assassination attempt AND suggest Oswald is in a conspiracy??????    (ps - I can't find any such person as "Major B.K. Tartin")  

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

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I wonder how often Oswald chatted with Walker over the phone?

 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

19 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

This is precisely what you gave me:

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The evidence Hoover knew Mexico City was a total fake-commie-sheep-dipping effort is here, among many other sources:

1.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html

2. 

In Detail:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/oswald-the-cia-and-mexico-city/

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

 

On 8/23/2017 at 9:29 PM, Jason Ward said:

-----For the benefit of those unwilling to read the thread here is a repeat of how to use cited sources:

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click on my links, and use ctrl-F to pinpoint search terms.  For the State Secret cite I gave, the quote I took is from the most relevant part to our discussion, which is under the bold black heading "Angleton and Hosty say the cover up was designed to protect the Soviets", and more specifically, the paragraph that begins:"Other CIA and FBI chiefs differed as to whether the assassination was perpetrated by foreign or domestic enemies, or whether Oswald acted alone. ...

Hoover knows Mexico City is a total scam.   Hoover knows it was a clownish attempt to make Oswald into a commie.  Therefore, Hoover knows Oswald is not a commie.

Jason

 

 

Jason,

I clicked the first link and read three paragraph before reaching a couple of paragraphs that support my position. I read beyond that point but saw nothing indicating that Hoover knew soon after the assassination that Oswald wasn't a commie.

If you want me to see the text that supports your position, you'll have to point it out specifically or copy it to the thread.

Here's the (first) thing I found that supports my position:

Dallas FBI agent Jim Hosty even revealed the cover-up in his book – however, his contention was that it was a benign cover-up by “President Johnson, the Warren Commission, the FBI, the CIA” that was conducted to avoid international tensions with the Soviet Union and Cuba, who he viewed as possible assassination co-perpetrators with Oswald.

Cover-up architect Jim Angleton was motivated by the Mexico City situation, but would have little reason to quibble with Hosty's sentiments until 1967. That was the year that Angleton learned some information from a double agent that “tended to absolve the Soviets”.

This shows that FBI agent Hosty long believed 1) that the Soviet Union and Cuba were possible co-perpetrator with Oswald; and 2) that the FBI, CIA, and WC conducted the coverup to avoid international tensions because of those possibilities. It also shows that Angleton thought much the same thing until 1967.

 

[Jason Ward]

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December 5, 1963  ... US communist party member and FBI informant Gil Green offers up his CT:

 

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145526#relPageId=106&tab=page

[Jason Ward]

46 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

 

Jason,

I clicked the first link and read three paragraph before reaching a couple of paragraphs that support my position. I read beyond that point but saw nothing indicating that Hoover knew soon after the assassination that Oswald wasn't a commie.

If you want me to see the text that supports your position, you'll have to point it out specifically or copy it to the thread.

Here's the (first) thing I found that supports my position:

Dallas FBI agent Jim Hosty even revealed the cover-up in his book – however, his contention was that it was a benign cover-up by “President Johnson, the Warren Commission, the FBI, the CIA” that was conducted to avoid international tensions with the Soviet Union and Cuba, who he viewed as possible assassination co-perpetrators with Oswald.

Cover-up architect Jim Angleton was motivated by the Mexico City situation, but would have little reason to quibble with Hosty's sentiments until 1967. That was the year that Angleton learned some information from a double agent that “tended to absolve the Soviets”.

This shows that FBI agent Hosty long believed 1) that the Soviet Union and Cuba were possible co-perpetrator with Oswald; and 2) that the FBI, CIA, and WC conducted the coverup to avoid international tensions because of those possibilities. It also shows that Angleton thought much the same thing until 1967.

 

No Sandy, it shows what Hosty wants the public to believe - that the government was actually acting in our best interest by engaging in a coverup.  Hosty's trying to say, "we lied, but it was to avoid war."   This is BS.  Hosty and LBJ and Hoover lied to avoid CIVIL war.

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his contention was that it was a benign cover-up

Hosty puts it in his book because its the best possible justification for a coverup.  Hosty and Walker are friends; Hosty is trying to ensure scrutiny stays away from Walker and the Far right even though pre-22NOV Hosty is right along with Hoover fearing the Far Right will do something crazy like an assassination.....anyway, I think Paul will be able to shed some light on what you're saying about Hosty, but I don't have the sources in front of me.  

The "avoid nuclear war" meme that Johnson uses is very much the reason given to persuade everyone from Warren on down that we better stick with the lone-nut theory.   LBJ does not fear nuclear war - he fears his conservative friends in Texas will come under investigation and uses the "avoiding international tensions" lie to justify a coverup....LBJ desperately needs a coverup and more or less admits it to the top echelon of government - but he can't admit the real reason why he needs a coverup.  So he does what all presidents do and invokes national security as a justification for mendacity. 

The Far Right WANTS it to come out that Oswald is part of a Communist conspiracy - because they WANT war.   Hoover and LBJ see the only option here is to counter the conspiracy's goals of war and to derail it into a lone nut theory.  Hoover has 3 options: 1- tell the truth; or 2- blame the commies; or 3- peddle a lone nut theory he knows is false.  If Hoover  lets the truth come out, he risks something like civil war in a year when the South is already turbulent; or he can go along with the commie-conspiracy, which would risk international war.   Hoover chooses the safest option - Hoover must peddle the lone nut theory.  This is the last thing the Far Right wants and General Walker et. al spends the rest of his life attacking the WR and trying to link Oswald to a Marxist conspiracy.   

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

2 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Mike, again I don't want to sell you on a theory or argue but I'm reading through the huge FBI file on Walker.   I do think that the Radical Right and their leaders were perhaps the most widespread assumed conspiracists in the short time before the lone-nut-commie coverup was fully instigated by the government and adopted by the public.  Hoover naturally assumed much the same thing.   Many many tips like this below appear in the FBI files:

 

 

It has been my contention that, prior to 12:30 on 11-22-63, it was the job of the KKK, JBC and radical right, to create static, background noise and foster rumors, in order to tax and strain the resources of (non-Dallas) law enforcement, the FBI, Secret Service and even the few remaining loyal higher echelon resources if the CIA. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Jason Ward]

5 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

It has been my contention that, prior to 12:30 on 11-22-63, it was the job of the KKK, JBC and radical right, to create static, background noise and foster rumors, in order to tax and strain the resources of  law enforcement, the FBI, Secret Service and even the few remaining loyal higher echelon resources if the CIA. 

For what purpose do you see the KKk-JBC-Radical Right wanting to strain law enforcement resources?   The Radical Right is giddy with excitement over both the death of Kennedy and the possibility that blaming it on a commie nut will ignite another McCartyism-type Red Scare or ignite passion for invading Cuba or propel militarist-conservatives to high office ...or all of the above.  So what is your angle with them wanting to make distracting noise?

J

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

52 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

This shows that FBI agent Hosty long believed 1) that the Soviet Union and Cuba were possible co-perpetrator with Oswald; and 2) that the FBI, CIA, and WC conducted the coverup to avoid international tensions because of those possibilities. It also shows that Angleton thought much the same thing until 1967.

 

No, Sandy, Hosty did not believe the USSR or Cuba had anything to do with it.  No one did.  Ever.  Hosty long believed it was the Far Right behind the assassination.  He died beleiving that:

"At the time, Hosty did not regard Oswald as a threat to the president. He was more worried about the right-wing crazies he had also been assigned to investigate. On Nov. 22, as he was sitting in a Chinese restaurant eating a cheese sandwich (it was Friday, and Hosty was a good Roman Catholic), he heard a wail of sirens. Weeping, a waitress told Hosty that President Kennedy had been shot. Hosty, stunned, immediately blamed the right. He was hardly alone. Chief justice Earl Warren, CIA Director John McCone and Jackie Kennedy all assumed at first that the president had been targeted by a fanatic right-winger."

http://www.newsweek.com/real-cover-191292

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

20 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

For what purpose do you see the KKk-JBC-Radical Right wanting to strain law enforcement resources?   

J

That is a question that answers itself. 

I am listening. Please rephrase.....

[Jason Ward]

13 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

That is a question that answers itself. 

I am listening. Please rephrase.....

Ok, maybe I misunderstood your post.   I thought your post was trying to say that these letters I posted from Walker's FBI file from tipsters implicating Walker in the JFK assassination were white noise created by The Right - perhaps meant to send the FBI on a wild goose chase.  But you are not really linking these letters to action from the Right and instead are saying in broad terms that the Right wants to make things difficult to investigate; right????

J

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

57 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

It has been my contention that, prior to 12:30 on 11-22-63, it was the job of the KKK, JBC and radical right, to create static, background noise and foster rumors, in order to tax and strain the resources of (non-Dallas) law enforcement, the FBI, Secret Service and even the few remaining loyal higher echelon resources if the CIA. 

.....does this highly provocative set of documents from Walker's FBI file relate to your point?

Thomas Arthur Valle is described in JFK and the Unspeakable as "an ex-Marine who was a dissafilliated member of the John Birch Society".   (Douglas, 202)  Is Valle one of the Right's potential patsies????  ....and why would the FBI put this arrest report in WALKER's file???

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

24 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Ok, maybe I misunderstood your post.   I thought your post was trying to say that these letters I posted from Walker's FBI file from tipsters implicating Walker in the JFK assassination were white noise created by The Right - perhaps meant to send the FBI on a wild goose chase.  But you are not really linking these letters to action from the Right and instead are saying in broad terms that the Right wants to make things difficult to investigate; right????

J

Taking portions of a quote can be deemed to be disingenuous, cowardly, insincere and worse.

Please allow me to do-so without applying the aforementioned recriminations....

You said....

"these letters I posted from Walker's FBI file from tipsters implicating Walker in the JFK assassination were white noise created by The Right"

The statements made were made regarding evidence of conversations heard before the assassination. The affadavit was made after the assassination. So, no, Jason, it is evidence of the "static and noise", made prior to the assassination. It is not a post assassination diversion. 

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"But you are not really linking these letters to action from the Right and instead are saying in broad terms that the Right wants to make things difficult to investigate; right????"

No, Jason. You are trying to make these statements relative to the assassination investigation, when they are actually evidence of prior-to-the-assassination noise, static and obstruction of the protection of our President.

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Paul Trejo]

On 8/24/2017 at 6:35 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Paul,

You don't need to be a registered communist to be a communist.

Regardless, even Oswald said (in NOLA) that he was a Marxist and not a communist.

So that's the label we should be using. But I don't mind using communist.

Sandy,

The following is my opinion.

Oswald was never at any time a Communist, when we define Communist as a "card-carrying member of the Communist Party."

Never mind the fact that Communists didn't have membership cards -- the plain fact is that Communists had Political Parties that people JOINED. 

Lee Harvey Oswald never joined any Communist Party in his LIFE.

This was precisely the objection that Michael Paine had toward Lee Harvey Oswald -- that his mush mouth was full of Marxist buzz-words, but he didn't walk the walk.  Michael Paine's father was a life-time Trotsky-loving Communist, who used to hold meetings in his upper-middle class California home.   Michael knew his father's lifestyle, and knew a lot about real-life Communists (and real Marxists).  THEY JOIN PARTIES.

Lee Harvey Oswald was posing.   Michael Paine presumed that Oswald was posing to get girls -- but he didn't really care and he didn't pry.  He just knew that Lee Harvey Oswald knew less about Marxism than anybody he knew who talked about Marxism so much.   Michael Paine knew more about Marxism as a teenager than Lee Harvey Oswald would ever know.

Oswald was a POSER.  That's what Jim Garrison found out in 1967.  J. Edgar Hoover knew it in August 1963, when Oswald called the FBI to help him at the New Orleans city jail.   Real Marxists don't do that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

15 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

How does General Walker know that Oswald obtained a passport over the summer?

...and isn't he hinting about the Mexico City trip?  How would he know about that?

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Jason,

What is interesting to me about this letter is the fact that it appears on 11/25/1963 -- before Marina Oswald linked Lee Harvey Oswald with General Walker.

Then we read the following phrase:

"General Walker told Devine that Jack Rubenstein and Lee Harvey Oswald had been seen together (no date given)."

So, here again, General Walker is suggesting that his associates were monitoring Lee Harvey Oswald at some point close to the JFK assassination.

Your question is even more piercing -- how would Walker and his team know about Oswald's behavior in June, 1963, unless they had been monitoring him for most of the year?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 26, 2017 by Paul Trejo