2017 Lancer: Bill Simpich and Larry Hancock's Presentation

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

David, I see nothing even remotely like that on page 103/104, not even in that same format?   And Tommy, certainly I will take your word on that although certainly the FBI should have known anyone in Kostikov's slot at the Cuban embassy was KGB, if not Dept 13.  Other than the Ambassador, a couple of assistants and a few clerks, virtually all personnel were KGB .   For those reading this who may not familiar with Dept 13 the following CIA documents is really pretty good background.  https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol19no3/html/v19i3a01p_0001.htm  

As far as developing an asset who would tell you exactly what Dept a particular embassy officer was actually working in, unless the asset was operationally involved with a specific sort of task I certainly would not have believed him.  Given the amount of surveillance on Kostikov in Mexico (not that you made me reboot my memory), the CIA would have had a pretty good idea what his tasking actually was and from what I remember of those reports they had a solid list of his travels, meetings, etc.

Larry,

I agree with you that both FBI and CIA knew (or assumed) that Kosty was KGB.  But knowing (or assuming) that he was KGB Second Chief Department Department 13 is another animal altogether, imho.

--  Tommy 

PS  For more on Kulak/"Fedora," see Mark Riebling's book "Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA."

Edited January 31, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[David Butler]

The pages on the PDF I have are 102-103 

In terms of the page numbers printed on the document they are pages 93 and 94

[David Boylan]

David, you are right. It shows as pages 103-104 on my pdf but 93 and 94 of the report. Fletcher Knight is Richard Helms.

[Larry Hancock]

Got it, thanks for your patience, I will share this with Bill and I wonder if we would have any luck searching for that Project Job Number...  So I'll stand by my original comments and unanswered questions ....its actually rather surprising that that this was shared given the TS classification.  Great find, I will let Bill and Malcolm both know..

[Harry J.Dean]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:01 AM, David Boylan said:

Thanks Larry. This is the source. Makes for very interesting reading. Even mentions Harry Dean.

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10506-10028.pdf

Hi, David B

Re; June 1960

Here are some factual details to correct mentioned Black Vault report. The Castro Cuban group and Cuban Consul, Chicago, requested that I deliver

numerous documents to Juan Orta, Castro chief-of -staff, Havana. G-2 Fransico Vega arrested me soon after meeting with Orta , interrogated and

threatened with death as suspected U.S. spy  by Cuba Militia  for a long period, then released.

This is Vega's correct statement  "no one see's Castro before they see me".)  Now I was allowed to return to Orta, and meet Castro, and several other

Revolutionary Government department leaders.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Harry J.Dean
eliminating the word, "to"

[David Boylan]

Another decent doc on ZRRifle. I'm not sure if this is new info for you. Mentions "Silverthorne" stable in Paris. QJWin first contacted in 1958 in Luxenbourg.

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10425-10004.pdf

[Larry Hancock]

Possibly some good leads, some of its is familiar but perhaps the most striking thing to me is that there were clearly a number of rather routine administrative documents and a number of people who were aware of a project ZR RIFLE which we once thought was something totally esoteric and perhaps known only to Harvey and Helms...in a way it reinforces the point that even for certain of its highest risk activities, at heart the CIA was still an administrative bureaucracy with records, accounting and standard operating practices. It sort of reminds me of the Roselli Castro assassination project which nobody was supposed to know about until somebody had to authorize money for it and refused to sign blank checks for it...then a number of folks got read in. .

[Paul Brancato]

On 1/31/2018 at 1:27 PM, David Boylan said:

Another decent doc on ZRRifle. I'm not sure if this is new info for you. Mentions "Silverthorne" stable in Paris. QJWin first contacted in 1958 in Luxenbourg.

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10425-10004.pdf

Silverthorne stable - What does this refer to?

i should add that QJWIN first contacted in Luxembourg by Arnold Silver, COS, (Altman) who a decade previously debriefed  Otto Skorzeny for the CIC Army Intelligence and recommended he be released and allowed to settle in Madrid, Otto’s stated choice. Otto first went to Paris, and when he was exposed there he went to Madrid.

Mankel mentioned here as principal agent. I’m still waiting to see anything on Mankel that does not originate with CIA. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Paul Brancato