Russian-born oilman is a vivid presence in JFK files

[Douglas Caddy]

Russian-born oilman, a real international man of mystery, a vivid presence in JFK files

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/27/russian-born-oilman-real-international-man-mystery-vivid-presence-jfk-files/807303001/?fbclid=IwAR17Oob22gvrDL4uJvDYx9D_qoya_PtMmxa46PpodYX8ojS_dizZzKrYbRw

[Denny Zartman]

In one of the first conversations I ever had with anyone about the assassination, my friend said "Guys like George de Mohrenschildt don't just 'make friends' with guys like Lee Harvey Oswald." If we believe the Warren Commission, de Mohrenschildt, a high-society man with connections to German, French, and American intelligence was possibly LHO's only friend.  

CIA domestic contact service man J. Walton Moore tells de Mohrenschildt to make contact with Oswald. de Mohrenschildt later says "I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years, if Moore had not sanctioned it."

de Mohrenschildt convinces Oswald to move to Dallas. de Mohrenschildt introduces Oswald to Ruth Paine, average Dallas housewife that just happens to have CIA and high level military connections herself.

Ruth Paine helps Oswald get a job at the TSBD a month and a week before the assassination.

[Douglas Caddy]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, Denny Zartman said:

In one of the first conversations I ever had with anyone about the assassination, my friend said "Guys like George de Mohrenschildt don't just 'make friends' with guys like Lee Harvey Oswald." If we believe the Warren Commission, de Mohrenschildt, a high-society man with connections to German, French, and American intelligence was possibly LHO's only friend.  

CIA domestic contact service man J. Walton Moore tells de Mohrenschildt to make contact with Oswald. de Mohrenschildt later says "I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years, if Moore had not sanctioned it."

de Mohrenschildt convinces Oswald to move to Dallas. de Mohrenschildt introduces Oswald to Ruth Paine, average Dallas housewife that just happens to have CIA and high level military connections herself.

Ruth Paine helps Oswald get a job at the TSBD a month and a week before the assassination.

Denny, thanks for this concise, short and to the point overview that illuminates what happened.

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/Was Ruth Paine A Conspirator?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/03/George DeMohrenschildt's Suicide

Edited December 9, 2018 by David Von Pein

[David Andrews]

I could see the DeMohrenschildt-Oswald friendship happening under innocent terms, given a quixotic man-of-the-world type who -  if for no other reasons than intellectual curiosity and pity - took a shine to a former defector who was a similar duck out of water in Dallas,.  However, I have no belief that GDeM was innocent and uninterested.

Edited December 10, 2018 by David Andrews

[David Von Pein]

ALBERT E. JENNER JR. -- Give me your impression of him [Lee Oswald] at that time--your first impression.

GEORGE DeMOHRENSCHILDT -- The first impression and the last impression remain more or less the same. I could never get mad at this fellow.

MR. JENNER -- Why?

MR. DeMOHRENSCHILDT -- Sometimes he was obnoxious. I don't know. I had a liking for him. I always had a liking for him. There was something charming about him, there was some--I don't know. I just liked the guy--that is all. .... You know, he was very humble with me. He was very humble. If somebody expressed an interest in him, he blossomed--absolutely blossomed. If you asked him some questions about him, he was just out of this world. That was more or less the reason that I think he liked me very much.

[Micah Mileto]

Hasn't it been pretty well shown that DeMohrenschildt had further dealings with the CIA than he admitted? If so, then he would have to be good at lying.

[François Carlier]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 5:44 PM, Denny Zartman said:

Ruth Paine helps Oswald get a job at the TSBD a month and a week before the assassination.

Oh no….. not again !
Ruth Paine was just a kind woman who happened to know the man who killed Kennedy.
Trying to implicate her or insinuating that she had foreknowledge or that she did something on purpose before the assassination is as shameful as it is ludicrous and wrong.
Ruth Paine was as much involed in a conspiracy as Jackie was !
I am amazed that there are still (a few) people who dare cite her name in 2018. When conspiracy theorists plunge so low, you know that they have ZERO thing of substance to say.

[Denny Zartman]

5 hours ago, François Carlier said:

Oh no….. not again !
Ruth Paine was just a kind woman who happened to know the man who killed Kennedy.
Trying to implicate her or insinuating that she had foreknowledge or that she did something on purpose before the assassination is as shameful as it is ludicrous and wrong.
Ruth Paine was as much involed in a conspiracy as Jackie was !
I am amazed that there are still (a few) people who dare cite her name in 2018. When conspiracy theorists plunge so low, you know that they have ZERO thing of substance to say.

François,

Sure. Ruth Paine was an average Dallas housewife who 1. just happened to have a husband and brother in law with high level military clearance, who 2. just happened to have a sister who straight up worked for the CIA, who 3. just happened to be acquainted with a globetrotting socialite with intelligence connections to three countries, who 4. just happened to speak Russian, who 5. just happened to get on the telephone herself, dial up the TSBD, and get Lee Harvey Oswald a job there one month and one week before the assassination, who 6. just happened to have had Oswald's belongings at her home, including the alleged murder weapon and an expensive miniature spy camera with a serial number that indicated it wasn't for retail sale (and that the Dallas cops tried to cover up and call a light meter for totally innocent reasons.)

François Carlier, you say in your bio that you're interested in critical thinking, but you seem to be very credulous when it comes to Ruth Paine and the JFK evidence in general. You really believe that all those things cited in the above paragraph are just coincidences? You believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was some sort of nutty, violent, unstable loner with delusions of grandeur, but that he also had such an absolutely charming and winning personality that people like Paine and de Mohrenschildt were just irresistibly attracted to him and driven to help him out in every way possible?

Ruth Paine certainly did do something on purpose before the assassination. Ruth Paine took in Lee Harvey Oswald's family. Ruth Paine allowed Oswald to keep the murder weapon at her home. Ruth Paine got on the telephone, Ruth Paine cold-called up the TSBD and Ruth Paine got LHO a job in a building that overlooked the motorcade route.

You can't deny the facts. CIA domestic contacts man J Walton Moore encouraged French, German, and American intelligence connected upper class socialite George de Mohrenschildt to meet Oswald. "I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years, if Moore had not sanctioned it." de Mohrenschildt convinced Oswald to move his family to Dallas. de Mohrenschildt introduced Oswald to Ruth Paine, a woman whose sister was in the CIA and whose husband and brother in law both held high level military clearances. Ruth Paine got Oswald his job at the TSBD, and had some of his belongings at her home, including a spy camera that the police actively attempted to cover up.

How much more blatant does a pattern have to be before a person can reasonably find it suspicious? 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Denny Zartman

[Denny Zartman]

10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

ALBERT E. JENNER JR. -- Give me your impression of him [Lee Oswald] at that time--your first impression.

GEORGE DeMOHRENSCHILDT -- The first impression and the last impression remain more or less the same. I could never get mad at this fellow.

MR. JENNER -- Why?

MR. DeMOHRENSCHILDT -- Sometimes he was obnoxious. I don't know. I had a liking for him. I always had a liking for him. There was something charming about him, there was some--I don't know. I just liked the guy--that is all. .... You know, he was very humble with me. He was very humble. If somebody expressed an interest in him, he blossomed--absolutely blossomed. If you asked him some questions about him, he was just out of this world. That was more or less the reason that I think he liked me very much.

Quote

 

In late 1961— De Mohrenschildt could not pinpoint the date— he said had a lunchtime meeting in downtown Dallas with one of these connections; J. Walter Moore. Moore steered their conversation to the city of Minsk, where, as Moore seemed to know even before he told him, De Mohrenschildt had spent his childhood. Moore worked for the CIA's domestic contact service in Dallas. He told De Mohrenschildt about an ex-American Marine who had worked in an electronics factory in Minsk for the past year, Lee Harvey Oswald, who was returning to the Dallas area. Although no specific requests were made by Moore, De Mohrenschildt gathered that Moore would be appreciative to learn more about Oswald's activities in Minsk.At this time, he was extremely busy trying to arrange for Papa Doc Duvalier, the Haitian dictator, to approve his oil exploration deal in that country. Some help from the U.S. Embassy in Haiti would be greatly appreciated by him, he suggested to Moore. Although he recognized that there was no quid pro quo, he hoped that he might receive the same sort of tacit assistance that he had previously received in Yugoslavia. "I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years, if Moore had not sanctioned it," he explained to me "Too much was at stake."

When Oswald arrived in Dallas, De Mohrenschildt paid a visit to his house because, he explained to me, he "assumed that was what Moore wanted."

 

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diary/dem.htm

De Mohrenschildt did not become friends with Lee Harvey Oswald on a whim or by accident. De Mohrenschildt was encouraged to meet Oswald by CIA domestic contacts man J. Walton Moore, and that is the only reason De Mohrenschildt ever met Oswald, according to De Mohrenschildt himself. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Denny Zartman

[Denny Zartman]

11 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I could see the DeMohrenschildt-Oswald friendship happening under innocent terms, given a quixotic man-of-the-world type who -  if for no other reasons than intellectual curiosity and pity - took a shine to a former defector who was a similar duck out of water in Dallas,.  However, I have no belief that GDeM was innocent and uninterested.

It couldn't happen under innocent terms because they didn't casually meet. The only reason De Mohrenschildt and Oswald were ever introduced to each other was because Dallas CIA domestic contacts man J. Walton Moore wanted it to happen.

According to the Warren Commission, George De Mohrenschildt was the only person even close to being Oswald's friend. They wouldn't commit to even that, saying only that Oswald may have respected De Mohrenschildt a bit. Otherwise, Oswald had no friends, at least as far as they could determine.

If Oswald were really and truly the type of genuinely sympathetic human being that could innocently engender a friendship with a sophisticated stranger, don't you think that he have happened on at least one or two other friends in his life, even if by accident? Oswald didn't make friends with anyone at any of the places he worked. Oswald wasn't even able to develop a friendship with Buell Wesley Frazier, despite riding in his car alone with him regularly.

[David Andrews]

9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

It couldn't happen under innocent terms because they didn't casually meet. The only reason De Mohrenschildt and Oswald were ever introduced to each other was because Dallas CIA domestic contacts man J. Walton Moore wanted it to happen.

According to the Warren Commission, George De Mohrenschildt was the only person even close to being Oswald's friend. They wouldn't commit to even that, saying only that Oswald may have respected De Mohrenschildt a bit. Otherwise, Oswald had no friends, at least as far as they could determine.

If Oswald were really and truly the type of genuinely sympathetic human being that could innocently engender a friendship with a sophisticated stranger, don't you think that he have happened on at least one or two other friends in his life, even if by accident? Oswald didn't make friends with anyone at any of the places he worked. Oswald wasn't even able to develop a friendship with Buell Wesley Frazier, despite riding in his car alone with him regularly.

I know.  A couple of spies, to be certain.  But you may be shading LHO over into lone-nut territory.  After all - Michael Paine was his friend.  Igor Voshinin was his friend.  He made some temporary friends in Russia, they say.

What were the DeMohrenschildts doing in Dallas before Oswald, anyway?  Spying on the White Russian community for...whom?

Edited December 10, 2018 by David Andrews

[François Carlier]

12 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

François,

Sure. Ruth Paine was an average Dallas housewife who 1. just happened to have a husband and brother in law with high level military clearance, who 2. just happened to have a sister who straight up worked for the CIA, who 3. just happened to be acquainted with a globetrotting socialite with intelligence connections to three countries, who 4. just happened to speak Russian, who 5. just happened to get on the telephone herself, dial up the TSBD, and get Lee Harvey Oswald a job there one month and one week before the assassination, who 6. just happened to have had Oswald's belongings at her home, including the alleged murder weapon and an expensive miniature spy camera with a serial number that indicated it wasn't for retail sale (and that the Dallas cops tried to cover up and call a light meter for totally innocent reasons.)

François Carlier, you say in your bio that you're interested in critical thinking, but you seem to be very credulous when it comes to Ruth Paine and the JFK evidence in general. You really believe that all those things cited in the above paragraph are just coincidences? You believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was some sort of nutty, violent, unstable loner with delusions of grandeur, but that he also had such an absolutely charming and winning personality that people like Paine and de Mohrenschildt were just irresistibly attracted to him and driven to help him out in every way possible?

Ruth Paine certainly did do something on purpose before the assassination. Ruth Paine took in Lee Harvey Oswald's family. Ruth Paine allowed Oswald to keep the murder weapon at her home. Ruth Paine got on the telephone, Ruth Paine cold-called up the TSBD and Ruth Paine got LHO a job in a building that overlooked the motorcade route.

You can't deny the facts. CIA domestic contacts man J Walton Moore encouraged French, German, and American intelligence connected upper class socialite George de Mohrenschildt to meet Oswald. "I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years, if Moore had not sanctioned it." de Mohrenschildt convinced Oswald to move his family to Dallas. de Mohrenschildt introduced Oswald to Ruth Paine, a woman whose sister was in the CIA and whose husband and brother in law both held high level military clearances. Ruth Paine got Oswald his job at the TSBD, and had some of his belongings at her home, including a spy camera that the police actively attempted to cover up.

How much more blatant does a pattern have to be before a person can reasonably find it suspicious? 

You could not be more wrong !
I'm sorry, it's late in Paris. I'll reply to you tomorrow.

[Denny Zartman]

15 hours ago, François Carlier said:

You could not be more wrong !
I'm sorry, it's late in Paris. I'll reply to you tomorrow.

I look forward to your reply. Thanks.

[François Carlier]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:25 PM, Denny Zartman said:

François,

Sure. Ruth Paine was an average Dallas housewife who 1. just happened to have a husband and brother in law with high level military clearance, who 2. just happened to have a sister who straight up worked for the CIA, who 3. just happened to be acquainted with a globetrotting socialite with intelligence connections to three countries, who 4. just happened to speak Russian, who 5. just happened to get on the telephone herself, dial up the TSBD, and get Lee Harvey Oswald a job there one month and one week before the assassination, who 6. just happened to have had Oswald's belongings at her home, including the alleged murder weapon and an expensive miniature spy camera with a serial number that indicated it wasn't for retail sale (and that the Dallas cops tried to cover up and call a light meter for totally innocent reasons.)

François Carlier, you say in your bio that you're interested in critical thinking, but you seem to be very credulous when it comes to Ruth Paine and the JFK evidence in general. You really believe that all those things cited in the above paragraph are just coincidences? You believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was some sort of nutty, violent, unstable loner with delusions of grandeur, but that he also had such an absolutely charming and winning personality that people like Paine and de Mohrenschildt were just irresistibly attracted to him and driven to help him out in every way possible?

Ruth Paine certainly did do something on purpose before the assassination. Ruth Paine took in Lee Harvey Oswald's family. Ruth Paine allowed Oswald to keep the murder weapon at her home. Ruth Paine got on the telephone, Ruth Paine cold-called up the TSBD and Ruth Paine got LHO a job in a building that overlooked the motorcade route.

You can't deny the facts. CIA domestic contacts man J Walton Moore encouraged French, German, and American intelligence connected upper class socialite George de Mohrenschildt to meet Oswald. "I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years, if Moore had not sanctioned it." de Mohrenschildt convinced Oswald to move his family to Dallas. de Mohrenschildt introduced Oswald to Ruth Paine, a woman whose sister was in the CIA and whose husband and brother in law both held high level military clearances. Ruth Paine got Oswald his job at the TSBD, and had some of his belongings at her home, including a spy camera that the police actively attempted to cover up.

How much more blatant does a pattern have to be before a person can reasonably find it suspicious? 

Sir,
I'm sorry, I'm late in replying.
First of all, no, I don't think that I am a credulous person. I try no to be.
Second of all, I said something about Ruth Paine, not about George de Mohrenschildt. So please let's stick to the topic, namely Ruth Paine.
I think that you have everything in reverse.
There is one thing that you have to understand : if A commits a murder and B knows A, it DOES NOT follow that B is involved in the murder or its planning.
If Oswald acted alone and planned the assassination on his own without telling anyone (which I believe), then nobody else is involved, even if you were able to prove that his friends were anything between priests and mafia hitmen.
It is entirely possible that Lee Oswald decided to kill President Kennedy without telling anyone. In that case, your point becomes void. Even if you prove that Ruth Paine was a mean-spirited woman (which she was not) and a rapist or a killer herself or a mafia boss or a CIA agent, you still haven't proved that she set up Oswald.
In other words, you have no evidence whatsoever that Ruth Paine was part of a conspiracy to set up Oswald.
You only have suppositions, guess work.
If a friend of mine does something against the law, will you accuse me of having set him up ? It so happens that one of my friends in college later went to prison. I learned that later. I had nothing to do with it. My father himself had a colleague who later went to prison. Do you think that my father had anything to do with that ?
But you could easily find old pictures of that guy at some party with my father. Would you use those photos to start a conspiracy theory ?
You get my point.
Ruth Paine made friends with a young woman. She offered to share her house with that woman, since she was a Russia-born woman and she, Ruth, was precisely Learning Russian. That makes sense. See the "Workaway" website : you have hundreds of hosts who want to have guests at their house to speak their language, when they learn that foreign language. I myself have been learning German and Spanish an would be happy to have a Spanish-speaking person at home, especially if I was alone after a divorce.
There is nothing wrong there.
Now, if that person later kills someone, will you accuse me of being guilty too, just because I still have their bike in my garage ?
What I mean is that you can't accuse Ruth paine just on the basis of her knowing people who did reprehensible things.
Ruth Paine was a kind woman who was nice to Oswald. That's all there is to it.
Now if you have evidence that she did anything, just let us know. But don't just "infer" just by talking about people around her.
That's what I mean.

Edited December 14, 2018 by François Carlier