Ron Ecker, did you write this?

[Wim Dankbaar]

I thought Files identified the guy who killed Tippit as Kenny Larry. At least Vernon said as much.

-----------------------------

Gibson,

Firts of all, why are you (of all people) still relying on anything Vernon says? He just wants to muddy the waters as much as he can with false statements and half truths. Files never identified this guy. Kenny Larry came up as the result of a misunderstanding between Pamela Ray and me.

Since then I found that the guy is not Kenny Larry.

Wim

[Wim Dankbaar]

Here is what Bob vernon has to say:

http://groups.google.nl/groups?hl=nl&lr=&g...g%40comcast.com

As usual, a lot of lies in it.

Wim

PS: The fact that Vernon states this is a forum that teaches children to lie, says it all.

Edited December 16, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar

[Nic Martin]

The only way Files is like Plumlee is they both claim to have been in the Plaza on 11-22. Unlike Files, Plumlee has documentation that he at least is who he says he is. However, it is a "take it or leave it" community nowadays, no matter who you are.

[Wim Dankbaar]

They also claim both that Nicoletti and Roselli were in Dallas that day.

Wim

[Tim Carroll]

They also claim both that Nicoletti and Roselli were in Dallas that day.

Wim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My reading of Tosh's seminar is that he had no personal knowledge of Nicoletti being in Dallas that day.

Tim

Edited December 16, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[Shanet Clark]

Good point. I have told Wim privately and I will say it here, I think he has lost his objectivity by championing Files so strongly. I think Chauncey Holt has a stronger case than Files, but Holt was apparently not a shooter. But neither was Files. Files probably just interjected himself into a known situation, its a classic jailhouse confession. He knew there was a grassy knoll shooter, he knew maybe that Licavoli and WerBell were around, but the whole thing is not strong enough to put forward as FACT, because it hinges on one CRIMINAL's claims...so WIm is just embarrassing himself by pushing up so hard...If he just presented Files as a "what if" then people would take all his other analysis MORE seriously. I may be wrong, he might have fired the Fireball .222 but there is a better and more objective way to handle the evidence.

[Wim Dankbaar]

To Tim:

Apart from placing Roselli and Nicoletti both in Dallas, they also both qualify Roselli as a member of an "abort team". If Files is lying then he has built on elements of Tosh's story. However, with the rest of independent corroboration, I don't believe that for one minute. But I do agree with Shanet that Holt's story is stronger that Files', in fact I believe it is irrefutable. That's why I have no doubt that that Nicoletti was in Dallas, and we have three people saying that. It is a proven fact that James Files was the personal valet for Charles Nicoletti, driver bodygaurd and fellow hitman on virtually als his jobs. So even if you don't believe Files taking the fatal shot from the knoll, it is more than likely that he was in Dallas that day and has personal knowledge of the events. On another note, Nicoletti would never have left a bitemark on a shell casing.

Wim

Q: Was Charles Nicoletti on the flight?

A: Charles Nicoletti was not on that flight but Charles Nicoletti was in Dallas.

Q: Did you see Charles Nicoletti in Dallas or how do you know that he was in Dallas?

A: From back from the Church committee years ago. The picture of Nicoletti was shown to me by a member, by investigators of Senator Church, and prior to that I had already pulled Nicoletti's picture out of a lineup of 10 pictures. I did not know his name at that point. On another occasion I saw him at Sloppy Joe's with John Roselli, in Biscayne Park, when they were going over some maps.

Q: How do you know that Charles Nicoletti was in Dallas?

A: Well it's been....well, O.K.. It's been told to me, by Federal Investigators and private investigators, pictures and everything else, that he was there. In fact, it's been alleged that I actually flew him in with John Roselli. Roselli was on board the aircraft Nicoletti was not on board that aircraft. I'd already known pictures of Nicoletti, but I did not know him personally.

Q: After Nicoletti got off the aircraft do you know where he went?

A: I have no....he was not on the aircraft. After John Roselli got off the aircraft, I have no idea where John Roselli went.

BQ: Did you see Nicoletti pick up Roselli?

A: No, I didn't see Nicoletti pick up Roselli, but because of the liaison that we had had and the discussion that was on board the aircraft, there was no doubt in my mind that Nicoletti was the person that John Roselli was referring to to meet in Dallas on that particular morning.

A: It was the things that John Roselli had said about people that he was going to be meeting in this town which immediately made me think of the individual that I had in mind which later turned out to be identified as Nicoletti. The pickup, the transportation mode, the fact that I knew of the liaison contact between John Roselli and Nicoletti because of the previous flights that we had made back in April with John Martino and it was my opinion that the party that John Roselli would be meeting in Dallas that day was Charles Nicoletti.

BQ: Was there a code that you had heard in the past that you heard that day?

A: There was a code name by the name of "Raven" which other investigators later tried to tell me was Lee Harvey Oswald, but I don't buy that. I'd buy that the code name given out as "Raven" was Nicoletti.

BQ: You knew in the past that Roselli had referred to Nicoletti as "Raven"?

A: Yes, in the past John Roselli had referred to Nicoletti as "Raven". One specific incident was a gun running operation out of Cat Cay, at Biscayne Bay, at Sloppy Joe's when maps were exchanged and Nicoletti was responsible for getting.....I'm sorry.....John Roselli was responsible for getting the maps to the place in Bimini which was a "safe haven" to Nicoletti. At that point in time, I was under the impression that there was a hit coming up someplace but I did not know, I was not at the level, to know that intimate planning. The meetings and the fact that Johnny Roselli had tremendous liaison with Charles Nicoletti dating all the way back to Arizona at the Caravan Inn, the Thunderbird Inn in Nevada, Burbank, California and Santa Barbara. These were people I had flown earlier. Roselli was one of them. Like I said, Nicoletti's picture was shown to me but I did not identify him as Nicoletti. I identified him under an operative name with the code name "Raven" at that point. It was only some years later that one of the investigators on the Senate staff come back and said "Nicoletti was on board your aircraft" and I made the statement to him at that point and time that "No, Nicoletti was in Dallas and picked Roselli up. I think you have your names transposed of Roselli and Nicoletti on who was on that flight."

BQ: So the modus operandi on the flight into Dallas matched the same m.o. every time that Roselli was to meet Nicoletti?

A: The M.O., the method of operation, was the same each time that John Roselli and Nicoletti met whether it be at Biscayne Bay, or whether Marathon Key, or whether it be at LeBarr Ranch in New Orleans or whether it be with the old gun running operation out of Midland...Menilothan, Texas, I think it was. So these were the areas where John Roselli and Charles Nicoletti had previous contact. At that time, my point of view, there was no doubt in my mind that Nicoletti was here to pick up Roselli and the others with the cartons that came on board the aircraft to go out to wherever they were going to go and then we came over to Redbird.

BQ: So you would have no reason in the world to suspect that there would be a new "Raven" or that Roselli was not meeting Nicoletti based on the five or six separate times.

A: No, I would have no reason. In fact, with Charles...Roselli, the liaison that Roselli had with Nicoletti and other...like Charlie "The Blade" or Farentino, which was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever, I would have no reason to doubt that Nicoletti was the pickup man. Now maybe, I'm getting into opinions now, I think that Roselii was carrying the instructions for Nicoletti. Now, whether Nicoletti was the shooter or a member of the abort team, I don't know. Over the years, it's hard for me to accept the fact that I was told "abort" and might have played a major, major role in actually bringing the team into Dallas on that day.

I believe that our information had been intercepted and as a result of that it was definitely used a cover because of the contacts that these Mafioso's had with military intelligence and the CIA.

BQ: Do you think Sam Giancana enters into this?

A: I think Sam Giancana is a major, major player in this and in fact a bigger player than John Roselli. I think, In fact, I know Sam Giancana knew Charlie Nicoletti extremely well and I think Nicoletti was a hitman for Sam Giancana and others in the Mafia and others in the Mafia at that time, mainly located out of New Orleans, Louisiana, and the old gun running operations that dated back to the '50's.

BQ: So you think it's quite possible that Roselli and Nicoletti could have been shooters?

A: Not Roselli. Roselli would not have been a shooter. Roselli would not even have been a spotter. But, Roselli, I believe, was the coordinator and I think his liaison was directly with Nicoletti and I think Nicoletti was probably your "finger man". Now whether Nicoletti was the shooter or was associating with the three shooters that was in this Plaza, one here, one over there, and one up there, which turned out to be the School Book Depository, which we did not even take into consideration because the most logical place to shot would be up on the City Record's Building, or up on this building, and right over there or right here.

BQ: Did Giancana always give the orders to Roselli and Nicoletti? Was that the M.O.?

A: That was the M.O. and that came from New Orleans, not from Chicago. I've heard a lot of researchers say that his liaison contact was Chicago, that's crap. That is New Orleans and Jacksonville, Florida. I also flew Sam Giancana's girlfriends from New Jersey to Miami two or three different times so I mean my liaison with Roselli and Sam Giancana, and I understand exactly what this could cause, going on open camera, but it's time to clear the air and it's time to get the truth out.

Edited December 17, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar

[Shanet Clark]

Wim

Who is asking the questions and answering in the above post?

Also

They beat the living hell out of Jimmy Files looking for that 1963 Secret Service map of the parade route, didn't they? I found that supportive, if true.

[Wim Dankbaar]

Wim

Who is asking the questions and answering in the above post?

Joe West and Tosh

Also

They beat the living hell out of Jimmy Files looking for that 1963 Secret Service map of the parade route, didn't they? I found that supportive, if true.

They, whoever they were, thought they had killed him. They threw Files out of a car and left him for dead. That is on record.

Wim

[Shanet Clark]

WILLIAM 'TOSH' PLUMLEE on JOHNNY ROSELLI & CHARLES NICOLETTI

concerning the events of 11/22/63 DALLAS

Joe West: Was Charles Nicoletti on the flight?

TOSH PLUMLEE: Charles Nicoletti was not on that flight but Charles Nicoletti was in Dallas.

JW: Did you see Charles Nicoletti in Dallas or how do you know that he was in Dallas?

TOSH: From back from the Church committee years ago. The picture of Nicoletti was shown to me by a member, by investigators of Senator Church, and prior to that I had already pulled Nicoletti's picture out of a lineup of 10 pictures. I did not know his name at that point. On another occasion I saw him at Sloppy Joe's with John Roselli, in Biscayne Park, when they were going over some maps.

JW: How do you know that Charles Nicoletti was in Dallas?

TOSH: Well it's been....well, O.K.. It's been told to me, by Federal Investigators and private investigators, pictures and everything else, that he was there. In fact, it's been alleged that I actually flew him in with John Roselli. Roselli was on board the aircraft Nicoletti was not on board that aircraft. I'd already known pictures of Nicoletti, but I did not know him personally.

JW: After Nicoletti got off the aircraft do you know where he went?

TOSH: I have no....he was not on the aircraft. After John Roselli got off the aircraft, I have no idea where John Roselli went.

JW: Did you see Nicoletti pick up Roselli?

TOSH: No, I didn't see Nicoletti pick up Roselli, but because of the liaison that we had had and the discussion that was on board the aircraft, there was no doubt in my mind that Nicoletti was the person that John Roselli was referring to to meet in Dallas on that particular morning. It was the things that John Roselli had said about people that he was going to be meeting in this town which immediately made me think of the individual that I had in mind which later turned out to be identified as Nicoletti. The pickup, the transportation mode, the fact that I knew of the liaison contact between John Roselli and Nicoletti because of the previous flights that we had made back in April with John Martino and it was my opinion that the party that John Roselli would be meeting in Dallas that day was Charles Nicoletti.

JW: Was there a code that you had heard in the past that you heard that day?

TOSH: There was a code name by the name of "Raven" which other investigators later tried to tell me was Lee Harvey Oswald, but I don't buy that. I'd buy that the code name given out as "Raven" was Nicoletti.

JW: You knew in the past that Roselli had referred to Nicoletti as "Raven"?

TOSH: Yes, in the past John Roselli had referred to Nicoletti as "Raven". One specific incident was a gun running operation out of Cat Cay, at Biscayne Bay, at Sloppy Joe's when maps were exchanged and Nicoletti was responsible for getting.....I'm sorry.....John Roselli was responsible for getting the maps to the place in Bimini which was a "safe haven" to Nicoletti. At that point in time, I was under the impression that there was a hit coming up someplace but I did not know, I was not at the level, to know that intimate planning. The meetings and the fact that Johnny Roselli had tremendous liaison with Charles Nicoletti dating all the way back to Arizona at the Caravan Inn, the Thunderbird Inn in Nevada, at Burbank, California and Santa Barbara. These were people I had flown earlier. Roselli was one of them. Like I said, Nicoletti's picture was shown to me but I did not identify him as Nicoletti. I identified him under an operative name with the code name "Raven" at that point. It was only some years later that one of the investigators on the Senate staff come back and said "Nicoletti was on board your aircraft" and I made the statement to him at that point and time that "No, Nicoletti was in Dallas and picked Roselli up. I think you have your names transposed of Roselli and Nicoletti on who was on that flight."

JW: So the modus operandi on the flight into Dallas matched the same m.o. every time that Roselli was to meet Nicoletti?

TOSH: The M.O., the method of operation, was the same each time that John Roselli and Nicoletti met whether it be at Biscayne Bay, or whether Marathon Key, or whether it be at LeBarr Ranch in New Orleans or whether it be with the old gun running operation out of Midland...Menilothan, Texas, I think it was. So these were the areas where John Roselli and Charles Nicoletti had previous contact. At that time, my point of view, there was no doubt in my mind that Nicoletti was here to pick up Roselli and the others with the cartons that came on board the aircraft to go out to wherever they were going to go and then we came over to Redbird.

JW: So you would have no reason in the world to suspect that there would be a new "Raven" or that Roselli was not meeting Nicoletti based on the five or six separate times.

TOSH: No, I would have no reason. In fact, with Charles...Roselli, the liaison that Roselli had with Nicoletti and other...like Charlie "The Blade" or Farentino, which was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever, I would have no reason to doubt that Nicoletti was the pickup man. Now maybe, I'm getting into opinions now, I think that Roselli was carrying the instructions for Nicoletti. Now, whether Nicoletti was the shooter or a member of the abort team, I don't know. Over the years, it's hard for me to accept the fact that I was told "abort" and might have played a major, major role in actually bringing the team into Dallas on that day.

I believe that our information had been intercepted and as a result of that it was definitely used a cover because of the contacts that these Mafioso's had with military intelligence and the CIA.

JW: Do you think Sam Giancana enters into this?

TOSH: I think Sam Giancana is a major, major player in this and in fact a bigger player than John Roselli. I think, In fact, I know Sam Giancana knew Charlie Nicoletti extremely well and I think Nicoletti was a hitman for Sam Giancana and others in the Mafia and others in the Mafia at that time, mainly located out of New Orleans, Louisiana, and the old gun running operations that dated back to the '50's.

JW: So you think it's quite possible that Roselli and Nicoletti could have been shooters?

TOSH: Not Roselli. Roselli would not have been a shooter. Roselli would not even have been a spotter. But, Roselli, I believe, was the coordinator and I think his liaison was directly with Nicoletti and I think Nicoletti was probably your "finger man". Now whether Nicoletti was the shooter or was associating with the three shooters that was in this Plaza, one here, one over there, and one up there, which turned out to be the School Book Depository, which we did not even take into consideration because the most logical place to shot would be up on the City Record's Building, or up on this building, and right over there or right here.

JW: Did Giancana always give the orders to Roselli and Nicoletti? Was that the M.O.?

TOSH: That was the M.O. and that came from New Orleans, not from Chicago. I've heard a lot of researchers say that his liaison contact was Chicago, that's crap. That is New Orleans and Jacksonville, Florida. I also flew Sam Giancana's girlfriends from New Jersey to Miami two or three different times so I mean my liaison with Roselli and Sam Giancana, and I understand exactly what this could cause, going on open camera, but it's time to clear the air and it's time to get the truth out.

[Re-Posted with credits, a very important statement, in my opinion.]

[Wim Dankbaar]

[Re-Posted with credits, a very important statement, in my opinion.]

Especially important for Al Carrier and John Simkin and all those who don't see the intertwining between organized crime and the CIA. Tosh was a CIA charter pilot and he flew around people like Roselli, Nicoletti, up to Sturgis' and Giancana's girls . Were these the McGuire sisters, Tosh?.

Wim

[Dawn Meredith]

[Re-Posted with credits, a very important statement, in my opinion.]

Especially important for Al Carrier and John Simkin and all those who don't see the intertwining between organized crime and the CIA. Tosh was a CIA charter pilot and he flew around people like Roselli, Nicoletti,  up to Sturgis' and Giancana's girls . Were these the McGuire sisters, Tosh?.

Wim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

_____________________________

Tosh,

I can only echo what Tim wrote: to see your name linked with Files' is disgusting.

Wim, please back off, I know you think Files is the cat's pj's, but please quit lumping FIles in with Tosh. It is not fair. Tosh has really put in a LOT of work on this forum and has backed up what he says.

When Files can do the same, perhaps we will all reconsider, but til then, when you lump him in with Tosh you totally lose credability.

Let's stay on point can we??? Wim if you have issues with Tosh, please take them up privately, you're now starting to sound like Vernon. (sorry)

Dawn

[Wim Dankbaar]

My reactions in bold

I can only echo what Tim wrote: to see your name linked with Files' is disgusting.

Wim, please back off, I know you think Files is the cat's pj's, but please quit lumping FIles in with Tosh. It is not fair. Tosh has really put in a LOT of work on this forum and has backed up what he says.

I am not "lumping Files in with Tosh". Not at all. I am merely pointing out the overlaps in their stories. That is my prerogative, and it should be seen independently from how Tosh thinks about Files.

Yes, I believe both Files and Tosh, I can't help people find one story more credible than the other. Can I therefore not summarize the overlaps?

When Files can do the same, perhaps we will all reconsider, but til then, when you lump him in with Tosh you totally lose credability.

Files is in jail, and does not have the luxury of answering questions here. His motivations to answer questions may also differ from those of Tosh.

Let's stay on point can we??? Wim if you have issues with Tosh, please take them up privately, you're now starting to sound like Vernon. (sorry)

I fail to see how you conclude I would have issues with Tosh? Neither do I see how I am not staying on point? This is a discussion board where people may have different opinions. Without them, I think there can hardly be any discussion. One of the issues discussed here, is the mingling of Organized crime with the CIA and the "big boys". The story of Tosh points that out perfectly, as does the story of Files (sorry if mentioning another overlap disturbs you). That was what I was pointing out. Can I not mention that Tosh flew people like Giancana, Roselli and Nicoletti around the country, if he said that himself? That's not an issue with Tosh! It's just stating a fact, and I can't help these people were all direct associates of Files and implicated by him the JFK assassination, which (maybe unfortunately) is another overlap with what Tosh says. Beginning to sound like Vernon? Are you trying to piss me off? I am not attacking Tosh's credibility!

Wim

Dawn

[Pamela Ray]

Let's stay on point can we??? Wim if you have issues with Tosh, please take them up privately, you're now starting to sound like Vernon. (sorry)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pam:

Please dont tell me that Wim is a Bob Vernon clone. I mean I really liked the guy when we were tag teaming Vernon over at Lancer.

I did notice his complete silence when I was booted off however.

PS- go ahead and use any email from me that you wish.

Jim

[Dawn Meredith]

My reactions in bold

I can only echo what Tim wrote: to see your name linked with Files' is disgusting.

Wim, please back off, I know you think Files is the cat's pj's, but please quit lumping FIles in with Tosh. It is not fair. Tosh has really put in a LOT of work on this forum and has backed up what he says.

I am not "lumping Files in with Tosh". Not at all. I am merely pointing out the overlaps in their stories. That is my prerogative, and it should be seen independently from how Tosh thinks about Files.

Yes, I believe both Files and Tosh, I can't help people find one story more credible than the other. Can I therefore not summarize the overlaps?

When Files can do the same, perhaps we will all reconsider, but til then, when you lump him in with Tosh you totally lose credability.

Files is in jail, and does not have the luxury of answering questions here. His motivations to answer questions may also differ from those of Tosh.

Let's stay on point can we??? Wim if you have issues with Tosh, please take them up privately, you're now starting to sound like Vernon. (sorry)

I fail to see how you conclude I would have issues with Tosh? Neither do I see how I am not staying on point? This is a discussion board where people may have different opinions. Without them, I think there can hardly be any discussion. One of the issues discussed here, is the mingling of Organized crime with the CIA and the "big boys". The story of Tosh points that out perfectly, as does the story of Files (sorry if mentioning another overlap disturbs you). That was what I was pointing out. Can I not mention that Tosh flew people like Giancana, Roselli and Nicoletti around the country, if he said that himself? That's not an issue with Tosh! It's just stating a fact, and I can't help these people were all direct associates of Files and implicated by him the JFK assassination, which (maybe unfortunately) is another overlap with what Tosh says.  Beginning to sound like Vernon? Are you trying to piss me off? I am not attacking Tosh's credibility!

Wim

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

____________________________________

No WIm, I am not "trying to piss you off", but this-mypost- did elicit yet one more email from Bob Vernon, who I told to cease and decist in an email two weeks ago. I MEAN IT BV, LEAVE ME ALONE. I AM NOT BOTHERING YOU AND I CAN POST WHAT I WANT OR NOTHING AT ALL. MY EMAIL ADDRESS WAS GIVEN TO YOU WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, WAS USED AND ABUSED BY YOU, AND I HAVE TOLD YOU TWICE NOW TO CEASE USING IT. I TOO CAN PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL THE POLICE. I am a peaceful person, and try to facilitate cooperative communications. YOUR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH ENDS PRIOR TO ENTERING MY COMPUTER. I TRUST YOU UNDERSTAND MY MEANING: LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

I am trying to read the forum more selectively, and I guess I should just not respond at all and listen to my other researcher friends' better judgement, who do not go on these kinds of forums, becasue as one researcher put it "You can't tell who the liars are". He is right, this is cyber- friggen- space.

I am not trying to piss anyone off, and therein lies MY problem: trying to get along with everyone. Trying to get everyone else to do the same.

It won't work, many here have an agenda. I have one: THE TRUTH on this case and other more recent matters, such as 9-11. I agree with Jim Marrs, but I don't think they need sep. threads.

What a way to begin my Sunday morning.

Now to my Bible for some truth.

Dawn