Did Rip Robertson have any involvement in AMWORLD?

[Larry Hancock]

There are two areas of Angleton "overlap" that have not been much discussed, one involves Angleton and Harvey in assassinations - Harvey approached Angleton for advice on the ZRIFLE project targeting Castro.  The two men met, Angleton introduced Harvey to his British intelligence contacts for advice and also offered to assist him within Cuba.  He may have done more, we don't know.  Harvey's own notes comment on asking Angleton for advice and most especially how to make it deniable.

Angleton's involvement in Cuban affairs is also not discussed - by anyone but me I don't think.  In 1961 he was asked to assess and organize Cuban intelligence, both in terms of CI and in setting up a new intel service....that took him into association with the work Morales had done, with the AMOTS and in the establishment of the new Cuban intelligence service based on the AMOTS that Morales had trained and was still running after the Bay of Pigs. How close Angleton was to Morales we don't know but he certainly was very much into his work and the AMOT group, at least during 1961.

As to the wording, I will look at what I might quote in NEXUS but I may have to go back to Stockton's book and I'm not even sure where that is not - pretty much all my attention is focused on In Denial at present.

[Greg Kooyman]

18 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Greg, it is discussed and cited in NEXUS but the actual source is the excellent biography of William Harvey by Flawed Patriot by Bayard Stockton....based in documents and letters provided by Harvey's wife. Up to Stockton's work there had been a false narrative that the two men did not like each other and were either competitors or adversaries - Stockton's work totally put the lie to that.  We now know that Angleton assisted Harvey with his Castro assassination efforts and beyond that they appeared to have had some shared secret which we can only guess at.  I heartily recommend Flawed Patriot as required reading as it overturns a lot of the misconceptions about Harvey from the earliest years of JFK research.

-Larry,

I do have Stockton's book.   I got it and read it right when it came out.   It's been years since I read that book and recall that Stockton was a protege of Harvey, so it enabled him to gain the kind of access to Bill Harvey's wife that I don't believe other writers would have achieved.  I will have to go back and re-read the section you reference.  I remember Bayard Stockton did in fact talk about the Harvey /Angleton relationship, I just did not remember the reference to a letter talking about a secret.    Very interesting indeed.   Thanks for pointing it out for me!

[Larry Hancock]

I don't have the book in front of me, as I recall their was a last letter exchange not long before Harvey's death and I think Angleton also contacted his wife afterwards...and then of course their was a burglary but not all the papers got taken (certainly reminds one of Angleton's personal MO about collecting things after deaths).

As for "secret",  that was likely a paraphrase on my part - as I recall the letters they simply refer to something the two share that should not be discussed...something like that.  I doubt he actually said anything quite that dramatic but the exchanges certainly suggested they had done something together that needed to remain private.

[Greg Kooyman]

Yes.  I remember clearly in the book that Harvey's wife reported a break-in and papers were missing.  Definitely sounds like an Angleton inspired entry.   A lot less brazen that when Angleton visited Win Scott's wife and used a veiled threat of withholding Scott's pension unless the contents of his safe and files were given up.

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 1/7/2020 at 9:26 AM, Greg Kooyman said:

Larry,

This correspondence between Harvey and Angleton intrigues me.   Can you share with us the source of the letters you are talking about?   I had never heard about this before.  Forgive me if you have mentioned it in any of your books. 

 

 

I'd forgotten Angleton was mentioned in Flawed Patriot.  Prompted by Larry's answer to your question I re-read a few pages for the first time in years.

Harvey wrote Angleton a letter six days before he died thanking JJA for a letter from him.  Then railing about Colby "and the rest of them" caving to the Church Committee.   After he died Angleton gave the letter to Harvey's widow, minus one page dealing with sensitive information.

Two years later he wrote her a letter thanking her for a Christmas card and more.

[Greg Kooyman]

16 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I'd forgotten Angleton was mentioned in Flawed Patriot.  Prompted by Larry's answer to your question I re-read a few pages for the first time in years.

Harvey wrote Angleton a letter six days before he died thanking JJA for a letter from him.  Then railing about Colby "and the rest of them" caving to the Church Committee.   After he died Angleton gave the letter to Harvey's widow, minus one page dealing with sensitive information.

Two years later he wrote her a letter thanking her for a Christmas card and more.

Thanks Ron,

I have yet to put my hands on my copy of Flawed Patriot.   It deserves to be read again by me.   I did confirm in Stockton's footnotes that CG Harvey had said there were 2 "attempted break-ins"  to her home, and that she was quoted as saying to the effect that she knew that they were after Bill's papers and that she had burned all of them.   CG was also a former CIA employee so I believe her when she said she destroyed the papers. 

[Ron Bulman]

On 1/8/2020 at 7:25 AM, Larry Hancock said:

There are two areas of Angleton "overlap" that have not been much discussed, one involves Angleton and Harvey in assassinations - Harvey approached Angleton for advice on the ZRIFLE project targeting Castro.  The two men met, Angleton introduced Harvey to his British intelligence contacts for advice and also offered to assist him within Cuba.  He may have done more, we don't know.  Harvey's own notes comment on asking Angleton for advice and most especially how to make it deniable.

Angleton's involvement in Cuban affairs is also not discussed - by anyone but me I don't think.  In 1961 he was asked to assess and organize Cuban intelligence, both in terms of CI and in setting up a new intel service....that took him into association with the work Morales had done, with the AMOTS and in the establishment of the new Cuban intelligence service based on the AMOTS that Morales had trained and was still running after the Bay of Pigs. How close Angleton was to Morales we don't know but he certainly was very much into his work and the AMOT group, at least during 1961.

As to the wording, I will look at what I might quote in NEXUS but I may have to go back to Stockton's book and I'm not even sure where that is not - pretty much all my attention is focused on In Denial at present.

So if Angleton was asked to assess And Organize Cuban intelligence in 1961, he was well familiar with ongoing operations continuing into 1963.  Given the triumvirate at the top of this power structure at the time; Dulles, Angleton, Helms. Some say he held Oswald's files well before then.  Considering his involvement from Mary Meyer to later Israel he seems to be in Cuba as well, in the background.  Almost a Ghost as Jeff Morley might say. 

[Larry Hancock]

It goes a bit deeper than that in terms of Cuban affairs, Harvey consulted with Angleton on his assassination assignment..., was given introduction to British CI to discuss possible outsourcing and specifically knew it was targeting Castro as Angleton made arrangements to provide one of his own sources inside Cuba as support for Harvey and the effort.  Harvey's biographer also describes an especially close relationship not only with Angleton but also a very tight relationship between not just Harvey and Roselli but also with David Morales.  And Morales of course supported Harvey in the restart of the Castro assassination effort under Task Force W and Mongoose.

All this becomes especially important because prior to this relocation to Italy,  Harvey remained involved with CI activities (as Bill Simpich as illustrated) but with virtually nobody else to relate to at HQ after Task Force W was shut down, would had ample time for visits by Angleton...who would have kept him updated on a variety of things.....including the initial back channel Castro contacts for a dialog with JFK.

If anyone wants to know how Harvey felt about JFK and RFK you might find these remarks by his wife to be interesting:

https://jfkfacts.org/a-true-sounding-of-the-politics-around-kennedy-when-he-was-assassinated/

 

[Ron Bulman]

In anticipation of H P Albarelli's upcoming posthumous book I ordered A Secret Order, finally.  Started with the chapter on Morales.  He was involved with just about everybody that was anybody, including Rip Robertson.  In light of recent interest in the military background/connections of some possibly involved I found this interesting.  

"In Germany Morales was recruited by the Army Counter-Intelligence Corps in 1947..."   "On October 10, 1049, CIA Security Branch chief , Ermal P.. Geiss, issued a cover sheet to Morales file indicating: Subject [Morales] will be assigned to CIA in a military capacity".

Did he still work with military contacts in 1963?  He did go on to work kinda sorta with the military in Laos and Vietnam.

[Larry Hancock]

Ron, if you have SWHT you will find a pretty detailed history on Morales, we do have most of his personnel records.  He joined the CIA from the military and while he maintained a military record as a backstop cover (at an enlisted rank no less) his career was strictly within the CIA from that point on....he also worked under US State Department cover and later in SE Asia under USAID cover.  After separation from the CIA he took a position as a counter insurgency staff advisor on the Joint Chiefs staff.

During his work on the Cuba Project he did maintain some intelligence/military contacts - primarily with the Navy, in particular with Navy intelligence officers at Guantanamo.

In 1963 he was CIA Chief of Operations at JMWAVE in Miami, still associated with the AMOT Cuban intelligence group under Tony Sforza and remained the military case officer for the DRE...he definitely worked a variety of projects and appears to have traveled to Mexico City on occasion in conjunction with the JMWAVE ancillary at the detached operation there, which included AMOT intelligence activities.

Anyway, if you have the book you will find more details and a chronology of his career there.