Connally Hit By Two Bullets?

[Denny Zartman]

5 hours ago, Anthony Mugan said:

There is a very good fit across all the data to a single shot impacting on Connolly by Z224 having also caused JFK’s back and neck wounds.

...the single bullet hitting his back and Connally...

Hi Anthony, I have a few questions.

How do you (or Donald Thomas, as I do not yet own that book) explain:

1. The opinion of all the doctors and nurses at Parkland who saw JFK's anterior throat wound prior to the tracheostomy and say that the wound was one of entrance and not one of exit?
2. The doctors at Bethesda probing the back wound and finding it to be shallow?
3. The doctors at Bethesda not being able to track the path of the bullet through JFK's body?

[Joe Bauer]

Did Connally have one rib injured, or three?

And were the ribs slightly or more significantly injured?

Also, didn't a bullet ( the "one" that created all his injuries) go through Connally's right lung and collapse it as well before exiting near his right nipple?

And the missile left in his thigh, whether entire bullet or fragment, when was it removed?

And was the thigh bullet X-rayed while it was embedded and/or photographed upon removal? Was it weighed and measured and analysed?

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[James R Gordon]

Joe,

Only Connally's 5th rib was damaged - damaged when the bullet bumped into it as opposed to going through it..After contactthe bullet continued down the path of his ribs and exited below his right nipple.The bullet never entered his thorax - i.e. his chest area.

A portion of the fifth rib was shattered. Most of the particles followed the trajectory of the bullet exiting also below his right nipple.

Some of the rib fragments entered into the chest and created damage to his right lung. You can still see the holes - tiny holes - in the shirt that they made when exiting.

The thigh fragment was removed on the 22nd.

It is a while since I read Gary Murr's book. I think it was in Gary;s first Lancer  presentation that he discussed this. It is also dealt with in his book as well. There is confusion between what metal fragments were discovered and documented on the 22nd and what the record now demonstrates. Gary demonstrated there are real real issues between what the Xrays show and what is not in the evidence.

There were tiny fragments left in his arm. They were not considered threatening. They were buried although there was attempts to have them removed.

James

S

[Joe Bauer]

I have watched at least one interview of Parkland nurses who attended to the wounded Connally by the "Living History" 5th Floor Museum group.

One of the nurses ( a Mrs. Hall ) described seeing a blood tinged spray coming from Connelly's puncture lung each time he breathed. Fragments of the broken rib went through the lining of the lung enough to cause this puncture? She described Connally's lung as a collapsed lung.

I know it's WIKI...but if you type in John Connally you will see that they mention injury to " 3 " ribs. Obviously poor fact checking on their part.

Kennedy assassination[edit]

Main article: Assassination of John F. Kennedy

 

Governor Connally, seated in front of President Kennedy, minutes before the assassination

On November 22, 1963, Connally was seriously wounded while riding in President Kennedy's car at Dealey Plaza in Dallas when the president was assassinated. Connally, riding in the middle jump seat of the President's limousine in front of the President, recalled hearing the first shot which he immediately recognized as a rifle shot. He said he immediately feared an assassination attempt and turned to his right to look back to see the President. He looked over his right shoulder but did not catch the President out of the corner of his eye so he said he began to turn back to look to his left when he felt a forceful impact to his back. He stated to the Warren Commission: "I immediately, when I was hit, I said, 'Oh, no, no, no.' And then I said, 'My God, they are going to kill us all.'" He looked down and saw that his chest was covered with blood and thought he had been fatally shot. Then he heard the third and reportedly final shot, which sprayed blood and brain tissue over them.^[18] 

Connally suffered three broken ribs,

a punctured lung and a shattered wrist and had a bullet lodged in his leg. He underwent four hours of surgery after the shooting and recovered from his wounds.^[19] In testimony before the Warren Commission, Connally said: "There were either two or three people involved, or more, in this – or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle."^[20]

Wiki entry:

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

23 hours ago, James R Gordon said:

Ron the work is called "Controling the Past." It is actually a three volume set. I am not sure Gary has made the final volume public to the Forum. He did make pasts 1 &2 public.

I was busy on other things and I forgot to download copies. There must be members who did download parts 1 & 2.

You are probanbly right, Gary most likely did make his links time sensitive,

P.S. If you do a search for "Controlling the Past" you will find the links. However I checked and the links are no longer active. PM Gary, he will most likely give a new link. It looks like I am right that Gary did not release Vol 3.

James.

James, I know you said you were busy in a post to another so thanks for doing so here and in the Shirt thread you started.  I've not yet pm'd Gary, he was on the site the other night and I hoped he might respond for the sake of all who peruse the site, I'll do so soon if he doesn't as he once thanked me for a comment that way.  

I don't understand the 40 degree angle of the shot from JC's arm pit to his nipple.  If sitting up semi straight, even turning to the left with my arm raised to shoulder level, I place my left index finger in the base of the outside of my right arm pit and trace to my right nipple it seems like less than even 20 degrees.   I freely admit math and physics are not my bailiwick. 

[James R Gordon]

Ron,

I will give you a more detailed comment later.nut I have no idea what I was thinking about when I said 40º. What I was talking about was the angle of the bullet down Connally's rib cage.  The angle was 27ª and not 40º.

I know I was remembering a discussion with DVP I will try and find this discussion. What I was arguing was that the trajectory angle from JFK to Connally was different. I was basically arguing why on earth the bullet would change its angle of trajectory from JFK to Connally - the SBT - to the actual angle down Connally's 5th rib and here I suggested that angle wa s 40ª. That is nonsense it was 27º,

I will give you a thought out response tomorrow. I just wanted to correct mt mistake.

James

[James R Gordon]

Ron,

Again I apologise for the 40º error, that’s what comes from talking of the top of your head. I still suggest you contact Gary for a copy of his book. CTP – Controlling The Past – is an encyclopaedia on the Connally wounding. I was never focused on the full picture as Gary is, my focus was on destroying the SBT. My interest in Connally came about because I saw it as the weak link in the SBT.

This conversation between Robert Shaw and Alan Dulles – which Gary quotes – became the essential truth of the Connally wounding. When both Robert Shaw and Connally were before the WC Shaw was asked to measure the angle of the bullet’s trajectory down Connally’s body. He got a measurement of between 25-30º taken with calipers. Shaw is asked to measure Connaly if he would position himself as he believed he was seated when he was struck.

Mr. Specter. Can you estimate that angle for us, Doctor?

Dr. Shaw. We are talking about the angle now, with the horizontal, and I would say - - you don’t have a caliper there, do you?

Dr. Gregory. Yes.

Dr. Shaw. I was going to guess somewhere between 25 degrees and 30 degrees.

Mr. Dulles. Sorry to ask these questions.

Gov. Connally. That is fine. I think it is an excellent question.

Dr. Shaw. Well, this puts it right at 25 degrees.

Mr. Specter. That is the angle then of the elevation as you are measuring it?

Dr. Shaw. Measuring from back to front, it is the elevation of the posterior wound over the anterior wound.

The Chairman. The course being downward back to front?

Dr. Shaw. Yes.

Gov. Connally. Back to front.

The Chairman. Yes. H4 137  

This was the argument I was having with DVP. He was arguing that SBT trajectory angle was 17º and I was saying since the bullet – traveling through Connally did not meet bony material until it slapped into the 5^th rib – how come the bullet changed its angle by 8º from 17º to 25º?

DVP never answered the question.

However it is THE question about the Connally wounding with regard to the SBT. It is clear to me that the shot that wounded Connally came from a different location. Now this was a really stable bullet. Each rib has on both of its sides material called “intercostal muscles.” So if the bullet was wobbling around as it travelled down the ribs these muscles would have been damaged. Robert Shaw testified that they were not damaged. The SBT has the bullet tumbling, something that would have destroyed the ”intercostal muscles.” So this bullet entered Connally on the tragetory angle of the 5^th rib and it followed that path all the way down – including slapping into the 5^th rib and and damaging around 10 cm of the rib.

As I understand it there was not a 10cm hole in the 5^th rib but there were pieces broken off that 10cm area that flew all over the place. The coloured picture of Connally’s shirt shows around 30 small fragment holes caused by these bone fragments as they escaped his body. Although some of these fragments went into the chest area and damaged the lung - a large number clearly followed the bullet as it exited Connally.

Although my research looked at other areas in the Connally wounding, this was the key moment that proved to me that the SBT was rubbish. Whatever caused the Connally thorax wound it was a separate bullet from the SBT. It was also fired from a different location. If you look at the JFK Shirt thread there is the whole problem that this SBT  bullet entered JFK at T3.

Sorry to be so contradictory, but in looking into the evidence to explain my position I was reminded why I chose Z230 as the moment I believe Connally was wounded. I know earlier in this thread I suggested Gary’s point of a late wounding was making me re-think but there is an impediment to that. It is fully discussed in the video. In my view Connally was wounded before Z 289 and later than Z223/4. I describe in the video my reasons.

I have PM’d you with a link to the DPUK presentation I made which goes on to describe other issues I have with the Connally wounding.

I acknowledge Gary is the expert in this area and I encourage you to contact him for a copy of his work. However the Z 289 moment was the reason I digressed from his view. That said all the details of Connally’s wounding that Gary describes I subscribe to – aside from the moment of impact.

Hope this clarifies the issue better for you.

James.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

It does help clarify.  Thank you for the link.  I'm perplexed at the moment over the wrist wound.  If Gregory is clear that it was not from a pristine bullet, likely a fragment, I wonder where it came from.  I'm guessing Gregory was the surgeon who operated on it, one experienced in gunshot wounds from the Parkland ER if he was allowed to operate on such.

I've come to believe from the work of David Horne, Dr. Mantick and Dr. Chesser that the head shot(s) came from the front, thus propelling skull, brain matter and fragments to the rear.  If the Dr. says a fragment, he's proficient in his field and analysis, he was there.  I'm not questioning him.  Just confused myself (again). 

[James R Gordon]

Ron

The wrist wound - and many other things - are described in the video.

James