Secret Service agent Winston Lawson- too fast of a shooting sequence 2010

[Vince Palamara]

The looks on Hill's and Landis' faces are priceless: "Ummm-cut! Win, redo that: there's no way Oswald could have fired the rifle THAT fast!!!"

Secret Service agent Winston Lawson- too fast of a shooting sequence - YouTube

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:18 PM, Vince Palamara said:

The looks on Hill's and Landis' faces are priceless: "Ummm-cut! Win, redo that: there's no way Oswald could have fired the rifle THAT fast!!!"

Secret Service agent Winston Lawson- too fast of a shooting sequence - YouTube

 

 

Vince, Lawson's re-creation of the time interval between the first and last two shots by patting his hands on his thigh and saying the words "bang ... bang-bang", with only a very short pause between the last two bangs, is the same exact 3 shot time frame re-creation made by countless other ear witnesses in or near Dealey Plaza that day.

We've all seen or heard these identical shot time frame re-creations via so many videos and even in testimony transcripts.

I could come up with several as I am sure others here could too.

First that comes to mind is Lee Bower's "bang ... bang-bang" knuckle tapping re-creation in Mark Lane's "Rush To Judgement" documentary.

It is the exact same time lapse recollection as Lawson's.

Bang ... 3 to 4 second pause, then Bang - 1 second pause - then Bang!

Because dozens of other Dealey Plaza location proven ear witnesses repeated this same 3 shot time sequence almost word for word, their cumulative " Bang ... Bang Bang" timing recollections must bear considerable and valid credibility weight imo.

And for those who claim the last two shot sounds sounding so close together was merely the effect of an echo ... why is it that no one recalls any echo sound at all from the first shot, which allegedly came from the same exact firing location as the last two?

For the 5 thousandth time I just now again reviewed the normal speed Zapruder film after seeing this Lawson video.

I always see something curiously anomalous relative to Lawson's and other's last two shot close together time sequence recollection.

Please check this out yourself and see if you see it too.

I count on my fingers the seconds between JFK being hit the first time ( the second shot) when he is hidden from view behind the Stemmons Freeway sign...to when he is hit in the head with the third and last shot.

Am I wrong in counting a good 4 and maybe even 5 seconds between these two shots as far as the Z film shows?

With the 2nd shot, JFK is hit, straightens up with fists lifting to his neck, in pained dispair looks left toward Jackie, Jackie first looks at Connally acting in pain while stretching out her arm and hand to grab JFK, she then pulls him close to her and then bends her head down close to his ... and then BOOM ... JFK's skull explodes.

I count a good 4 seconds + for that entire sequence ( The 2nd shot/ first JFK hit to the third head shot hit ) to take place! 

I am sure the experts have timed this sequence as well. Using the Zapruder camera film individual frame timing and other methods. Is it different than my simple layman timing finding? I don't know.

But here is the catch regards all the "Bam-Bam" last two shot timing recollections.

How many seconds between Lawson's last two shots thigh tap recollection?

How many seconds between Lee Bower's table knuckle tap recollection?

And all the other quick time lapse ones between those last two shots?

From my view only one, and generously maybe-barely two seconds?

I ask you, tap your knuckles twice on any hard surface with a one or even two second pause ... and then a four second interval pause between each tap.

Now, compare that 4 seconds long pause to the Lawson, Bower and other earwitness's 1 to 2 second long pause between the last two shots recollections.

The time difference between a 1 to 2 second pause and a 4 + second one is significant and starkly obvious.

This stark contradiction between these witnesses 2nd and third shot timing recollections and the real time 4+ second scene we see on the Zapruder film doesn't add up.

Could there have been two rifles being fired almost simultaneously at JFK?

With their individual shots being almost on top of each other? 

And with one hitting it's intended mark and the other missing? 

I would love for someone else to watch the Zapruder film in real time and tell me if they agree or disagree with my belief that it was at least 4 seconds between JFK first being hit and then being hit a second time in the head.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Joe Bauer

[Vince Palamara]

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Vince, Lawson's re-creation of the time interval between the last two shots by patting his hands twice on his thigh and saying the words "bang - bang", with only a very short pause between each, is the same exact last two shots time frame re-creation made by countless other ear witnesses in or near Dealey Plaza that day.

We've all seen these many re-creations via so many videos and even in testimony transcripts.

I could come up with several as I am sure others here could too.

First that comes to mind is Lee Bower's last two shot knuckle tap recreation in Mark Lane's "Rush To Judgement" documentary.

It is the same time lapse recollection as Lawson's.

Bam ... 3 to 4 second pause ... then Bam ... 1 to 2 second pause ... Bam!

Because dozens of other Dealey Plaza location proven ear witnesses repeated this same 3 shot time sequence almost word for word, their cumulative " Bam ... Bam Bam" timing recollections must bear considerable and valid credibility weight imo.

And for those who claim the last two shot sounds sounding so close together was merely the effect of an echo ... why is it that no one recalls any echo sound at all from the first shot, which allegedly came from the same exact firing location as the last two?

For the 5 thousandth time I just now again reviewed the normal speed Zapruder film after seeing this Lawson video.

I always see something curiously anomalous relative to Lawson's and other's last two shot close together time sequence recollection.

Please check this out yourself and see if you see it too.

I count on my fingers the seconds between JFK being hit the first time when he is hidden from view behind the Stemmons Freeway sign...to when he is hit in the head with the next shot.

Am I wrong in counting a good 4 and maybe even 5 seconds?

JFK is hit, straightens up with fists lifting to his neck, in pained dispair looks left toward Jackie, Jackie first looks at Connally acting in pain while stretching out her arm and hand to grab JFK, she then pulls him close to her and then bends her head down close to JFK's ... and then BOOM ... JFK's skull explodes.

I count a good 4 seconds for that entire sequence ( The first JFK hit to the second hit ) to take place! 

I am sure the experts have timed this sequence as well. Using the Zapruder camera film individual frame timing and other methods. Is it different than my simple layman timing finding? I don't know.

But here is the catch regards all the "Bam-Bam" last two shot timing recollections.

How many seconds between Lawson's last two shots thigh tap recollection?

How many seconds between Lee Bower's table knuckle tap recollection?

And all the other quick time lapse ones between those last two shots?

From my view, only one to two seconds.

I ask you, tap your knuckles twice on any hard surface with a one to two second pause ... and then a four second interval pause between each tap.

Now, compare that 4 seconds long pause to the Lawson, Bower and other earwitnesse's 1 to 2 second long pause between the last two shots recollections.

The time difference between a 1 to 2 second pause and a 4 second one is ridiculously stark and obvious.

This stark contradiction between these witnesses shot timing recollections and the real time scene we see on the Zapruder film ( from JFK first being hit to the head shot ) doesn't add up.

Could there have been two rifles being fired at JFK, with their individual shots being almost on top of each other?  With one hitting it's intended mark and the other missing? 

I would love for someone else to watch the Zapruder film in real time and tell me if they agree or disagree with my belief that it was at least 4 seconds between JFK first being hit and then being hit a second time in the head.

I have a video compilation coming very soon that will add to what you state here.

[Joe Bauer]

JFK assassination: shots too fast for one man (compilation) - YouTube

 

Kinney, Lawson, Bowers, Jean Hill, Moorman

 

Vince, it's right there on video tape. Same time frame description to a tee.

Wonder how many others in Dealey Plaza that day heard the same last two "bang-bang" shots almost on top of each other?

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Joe Bauer

[Mark Tyler]

9 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

JFK assassination: shots too fast for one man (compilation) - YouTube

 

Kinney, Lawson, Bowers, Jean Hill, Moorman

 

Vince, it's right there on video tape. Same time frame description to a tee.

Wonder how many others in Dealey Plaza that day heard the same last two "bang-bang" shots almost on top of each other?

 

It was a very large number (at least 35-40 by my count).  In addition there were about ten witnesses who mentioned two shots in quick succession at the beginning just before JFK raised his arms (e.g. Kenneth O'Donnell, Sam Holland, Jean Hill and John Connally).  Connally is especially helpful as he mentioned the gap was two seconds (he said he was hit by the second shot of the pair).  He added that the two shots were fired so quickly he felt there were either two gunmen involved or maybe an automatic weapon was used.  We see Connally starting to react to his injuries at Z225-Z230 of the Z-film, so two seconds before this is around Z188.  Z190-Z210 is the second largest jiggle in the Z-film and looks to be the strongest evidence of when the first shot was fired (backed up by many of the witnesses).  With two shots fired within two seconds Oswald could not have fired them both, so I feel that is the strongest evidence of conspiracy between the Z-film and the Dealey Plaza witnesses.

My witness data is here, along with references:

https://github.com/matyler/mc63.dpws/blob/master/mc63_dpws.csv

[Vince Palamara]

1 hour ago, Mark Tyler said:

It was a very large number (at least 35-40 by my count).  In addition there were about ten witnesses who mentioned two shots in quick succession at the beginning just before JFK raised his arms (e.g. Kenneth O'Donnell, Sam Holland, Jean Hill and John Connally).  Connally is especially helpful as he mentioned the gap was two seconds (he said he was hit by the second shot of the pair).  He added that the two shots were fired so quickly he felt there were either two gunmen involved or maybe an automatic weapon was used.  We see Connally starting to react to his injuries at Z225-Z230 of the Z-film, so two seconds before this is around Z188.  Z190-Z210 is the second largest jiggle in the Z-film and looks to be the strongest evidence of when the first shot was fired (backed up by many of the witnesses).  With two shots fired within two seconds Oswald could not have fired them both, so I feel that is the strongest evidence of conspiracy between the Z-film and the Dealey Plaza witnesses.

My witness data is here, along with references:

https://github.com/matyler/mc63.dpws/blob/master/mc63_dpws.csv

Add her, as well:

Patricia Ann Donaldson- another bang...bang-bang witness 11/22/63 - YouTube

JFK assassination: shots too fast for one man (compilation) - YouTube

[Mark Tyler]

1 hour ago, Vince Palamara said:

Add her, as well:

Patricia Ann Donaldson- another bang...bang-bang witness 11/22/63 - YouTube

JFK assassination: shots too fast for one man (compilation) - YouTube

Indeed, yet another one to add to the rapid fire witness list!

[Vince Palamara]

21 minutes ago, Mark Tyler said:

Indeed, yet another one to add to the rapid fire witness list!

Yes!

[Joe Bauer]

5 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:

Add her, as well:

Patricia Ann Donaldson- another bang...bang-bang witness 11/22/63 - YouTube

 

She was just feet from JFK's limo.

[Joe Bauer]

7 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:

 

https://github.com/matyler/mc63.dpws/blob/master/mc63_dpws.csv

Very interesting. Had never seen this list. Huge majority gave no shot timing statements.

Need to go back to the first statements I recall reading many years ago.

So many on the list saying they only heard 2 shots is confusing the heck out of me.

Most everyone recalls hearing a first gun shot which many stated sounded like a firecracker or motorcycle backfire.

This shot apparently didn't hit anybody or even the limo, correct?

Then, the "2nd" shot supposedly hits JFK in the back and traverses through Connally too?

Then the third shot hits JFK in the head.

And this "third" head shot is the one which 35 ear witnesses recall being two shots, one on top of each other?

Isn't this the official WC finding regards the total number of shots?

3 with the first one hitting no one and no vehicle, 2nd one hits JFK in the back and the 3rd one hitting JFK in the head?

And the 3rd shot reported as two right in top of each other by many ear witnesses.?

Just want to go back to the official finding report of their being 3 shots with the first one missing everything.

Correct?

 

[Mark Tyler]

46 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Very interesting. Had never seen this list. Huge majority gave no shot timing statements.

Need to go back to the first statements I recall reading many years ago.

So many on the list saying they only heard 2 shots is confusing the heck out of me.

Most everyone recalls hearing a first gun shot which many stated sounded like a firecracker or motorcycle backfire.

This shot apparently didn't hit anybody or even the limo, correct?

Yes, this is the shot I think was fired near Z185 (the massive blur in the Zapruder film Z190-Z210 indicates Zapruder was startled by the noise).  A couple of witnesses saw something hit the road by the limo (Royce Skelton & Virgie Baker), and other witnesses like Mary Woodward said nothing seemed to happen in the car.  John Connally said he wasn't hit by this shot.

47 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Then, the "2nd" shot supposedly hits JFK in the back and traverses through Connally too?

This is my assumption as the Z-film shows them both reacting at the same time Z225-Z230 (presumably this shot was fired somewhere Z210-Z220).  This shot may have come from the TSBD or may have come from another window nearby with a similar trajectory, e.g. the Dal-Tex building.

47 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Then the third shot hits JFK in the head.

And this "third" head shot is the one which 35 ear witnesses recall being two shots, one on top of each other?

Many witnesses said the head shot was the third shot fired, but several of these people also said the 2nd shot came just a second or two before.  There is a slight jiggle in the Z-film at Z290 and William Greer is spinning his head around at this point which he said he did after hearing a shot just before the head shot.  Once again the witnesses and the Z-film seem to be consistent.

48 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Isn't this the official WC finding regards the total number of shots?

3 with the first one hitting no one and no vehicle, 2nd one hits JFK in the back and the 3rd one hitting JFK in the head?

And the 3rd shot reported as two right in top of each other by many ear witnesses.?

Just want to go back to the official finding report of their being 3 shots with the first one missing everything.

Correct?

The Warren Commission never committed to saying when the missed shot was fired as they said different witnesses supported a shot before fired: before Z210; after Z313; and in between Z210 and Z313.  I agree with their analysis as there are plenty of witnesses to support each of these conclusions.  However I disagree with the Warren Commission as they limit themselves to just three shots which I think is a mistake.  They relied on the blind statistical analysis that most witnesses heard three shots fired, but as discussed earlier most of these three shot witnesses heard two shots at the head shot or two shots at the beginning.

The two shot witnesses help explain this somewhat as they clearly missed the first or last burst of gunfire.  Any witness who missed the first or last burst said that the whole shooting lasted just 5 seconds.  Those who heard the first and last shots said it lasted about 10 seconds.  This helps us grasp why there are so many contradictions between witnesses.

Lone gunman researchers know that a shot at Z185 and Z220 proves a conspiracy as Oswald didn't have time to fire both shots, so they are keen to show a shot was fired at Z150 (or before), despite almost no witness or film evidence supporting this theory.  There is actually far more witness evidence of shots after Z313 than before Z180, but this creates many more problems for them so once again they say "the witnesses are wrong".  No explanation, just that the witnesses must be wrong as their theory is correct!