New Article by Dale Myers on Tippit

[Tom Gram]

6 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

The key word there, Tom, being "legitimate".

Dale Myers doesn't think there's "legitimate ambiguity" in the Tippit evidence at all. And he argues his case from that POV. And I happen to agree with him about the evidence that exists in the Tippit murder case.

The Tippit case is about as "open and shut" as any case could ever be, IMO. You and other CTers disagree. Well, okay. There's always going to be that basic disagreement about the Tippit evidence, I guess. But I certainly haven't seen any solid proof to indicate, for example, that the chain of custody is terrible or non-existent for the V510210 revolver (which was definitely shipped to OSWALD'S P.O. Box by Seaport Traders) or that the chain of custody/possession is lousy for the 2 non-Poe bullet shells that littered 10th Street either.

And if Officer C.T. Walker's testimony regarding some of the things uttered by Lee Oswald in the police car after his arrest are correct and accurate (and I see no reason to totally disregard Walker's testimony; do you?)....then, in my opinion, Oswald, in essence, practically confessed to murdering J.D. Tippit during that ride in the police car on the way to City Hall. No, he didn't say to Walker: "I just shot me a cop!" But does anybody really think a totally innocent person would say some of the things that Oswald is alleged to have said in the theater and just after his arrest?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / They Say It Just Takes A Second To Die

 

 

I know that that is Myers' position, but it is dead wrong. There is absolutely legitimate ambiguity in the Tippit evidence, but that doesn't mean that Oswald didn't kill Tippit. All it means is that there is real uncertainty as to what really happened, and that there is a non-zero probability that somebody other than Oswald killed Tippit. We just don't know, and several aspects of the case are weird enough that it warrants a reasonable suspicion, IMO. 

Let's take the post-arrest chain of custody of the revolver for example, since you brought it up. David, it is truly, honestly, no matter how you look at it a complete mess. Oswald could have gotten an acquittal on this alone if he had the right defense attorney. Just the fact that the gun wasn't initialed at the scene is bad enough, but when you add in Paul Bentley's involvement and subsequent avoidance of Bentley by the WC, and all the other contradictions in the record, it becomes legitimately bizarre and suspicious. For proof of an unresolved issue here all you have to do is look at the image I posted in the other thread of the bottom of the pistol grip that shows the initials "PB" clear as day. Where is that in the Warren Report? 

Myers acts as if he's the sole arbiter of truth in the Tippit case, but with so many legitimately unanswered questions, for him to act like that and take such an insulting, condescending tone with people who don't agree with him is laughable, IMO. If he wants to be taken seriously by anyone other than already full-blown devotees of Posner and Bugliosi he needs to get over himself. 

[David Von Pein]

14 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

There is absolutely legitimate ambiguity in the Tippit evidence...

I disagree.

Again, I think it's that term "legitimate" that must be applied. Is the ambiguity "legitimate"? In other words, is it truly REASONABLE to think that the cops were running around faking/changing/manipulating the Tippit evidence so that Oswald could be framed and the real killer could get away with it?

Such a notion to me is preposterous. But to many CTers, it's more than reasonable---it actually happened (despite the CTers' ZERO amount of proof to back up such a vile charge).

And around this mulberry bush we pass once more....

Edited July 20, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

25 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Doing this makes the name callers themselves seem incredibly insecure to me.

Thanks Joe, and I totally agree. It comes off like they are afraid they might be wrong, and it takes away from their argument, even if the argument itself is perfectly valid. It's like any contradictory evidence threatens their belief system, so they try to fight off the cognitive dissonance by being condescending, or something like that. I just can't take anyone seriously that needs to argue like that. It cheapens a lot of the popular lone assassin literature IMO. 

[David Von Pein]

..........

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

1 minute ago, David Von Pein said:

I disagree.

Again, I think it's that term "legitimate" that must be applied. Is the ambiguity "legitimate"? In other words, is it truly REASONABLE to think that the cops were running around faking/changing/manipulating the Tippit evidence so that Oswald could be framed and the real killer could get away with it?

Such a notion to me is preposterous. But to many CTers, it's more than reasonable---it actually happened (despite the CTers' ZERO amount of proof to back up such a vile charge).

And around this mulberry bush we pass once more....

This reflects a major difference between most LNs and CTs: LNs tend to have a lot more faith in government. If the DPD under Henry Wade were known for being an honest, truth-seeking institution that never did the kinds of things you mention, maybe I'd be more inclined to take your side here. Unfortunately, they were corrupt as it gets, and are known to have fabricated evidence and railroaded innocent suspects in other cases (see my comment in the DVP thread). Thus, when there are uncertainties and contradictions in the evidence, as there are for the revolver chain of custody (not to mention incredible [apparent] negligence), it is reasonable to be suspicious as to what the hell really happened, because we know for a fact that the WC did not give us the full story. Instead of having blind faith in the official version of events, which we know for a fact is incomplete at best, I'd rather investigate, try to piece together as much information as I can, look for patterns, and seek the "full truth" to the farthest extent possible before coming to any conclusions. You may disagree, but I think that's a pretty reasonable position to take. 

[David Von Pein]

6 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Unfortunately, they [the DPD] were corrupt as it gets, and are known to have fabricated evidence and railroaded innocent suspects in other cases...

Even in cases where their own police officers have been slain?  Even in THAT type of case, you think the DPD would NOT want to seek out and capture the real killer of their brother officer? They would just be content to let the culprit get away and FRAME an innocent guy instead?

Come now, Mr. Gram.

Edited July 20, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

31 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Even in cases where their own police officers have been slain?  Even in THAT type of case, you think the DPD would NOT want to seek out and capture the real killer of their brother officer? They would just be content to let the culprit get away and FRAME an innocent guy instead?

Come now, Mr. Gram.

You don’t think the DPD believed they had the right suspect in the cases where they fabricated evidence? Have you ever seen The Thin Blue Line? Lee Oswald was public enemy number one, and to think that the DPD under Henry Wade wouldn’t under any circumstances fabricate evidence to cinch up their case against the alleged cop and President killer is preposterous, IMO. That’s how these guys operated, and there are more than enough examples of questionable evidence in this case to be suspicious. The DPD faking evidence and Oswald’s guilt are not mutually exclusive, but most lone assassin theorists won’t even consider it because it would ‘hurt the lord prosecutor Bugliosi’s brilliant case’, or something that. God forbid those crazy conspiracists were right about something…😑

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Question for the moderators....

It appears that EF newcomer Bill Brown today was placed on some kind of post-limiting restriction. (It says "One Post Per Day" under his profile picture next to his posts.)

I've been talking to him a little bit today at another Internet location, and he said he is in the dark as to the reason for this restriction being applied. Apparently he was not notified by any mods via Private Message or e-mail. So, naturally, he's curious to know why he's being penalized?

And so, I told him I'd ask (because he evidently can't even post his "one per day" today). Which makes me think it might be a mistake or glitch of some kind.

Can anyone throw any light on this?

Thanks.

 

Didn't you see in one of the Tippit threads, Bill Brown asking if people like Gil Jesus are dishonest or ignorant? And Gil and I were pointing out that he was violating forum rules?

BB's response was that he wasn't violating the rule because he put his accusation in the form of a question. (i.e. he didn't accuse... he just asked.)

I didn't report this to the mods, but I suspect somebody did.

 

[Paul Cummings]

20 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

You don’t think the DPD believed they had the right suspect in the cases where they fabricated evidence? Have you ever seen The Thin Blue Line? Lee Oswald was public enemy number one, and to think that the DPD under Henry Wade wouldn’t under any circumstances fabricate evidence to cinch up their case against the alleged cop and President killer is preposterous, IMO. That’s how these guys operated, and there are more than enough examples of questionable evidence in this case to be suspicious. The DPD faking evidence and Oswald’s guilt are not mutually exclusive, but most lone assassin theorists won’t even consider it because it would ‘hurt the lord prosecutor Bugliosi’s brilliant case’, or something that. God forbid those crazy conspiracists were right about something…😑

I think you're being kind however well stated for the studio audience.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Paul Cummings

[David Von Pein]

19 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

You don’t think the DPD believed they had the right suspect in the cases where they fabricated evidence?

And if they DID believe they had the right suspect even BEFORE they started fabricating evidence, please tell me what you think they based that belief on---if not the actual untainted evidence in the case?

They surely didn't "believe" a person was guilty on the basis of having no real and untainted evidence against him in the first place, right?

[James DiEugenio]

This is hysterical.  Arguing about Myers and his view of a lack of ambiguity in the evidence.

DALE WAS  IN THE WARREN COMMISSION IS BS CAMP FOR TEN YEARS!

TEN YEARS!

No ambiguity my behind.  

So about when did Dale suddenly, like Paul on the way to Damascus, see the light?

Well  prior to JFK being released.  Hmm, if you recall, this is when  the heavens also parted for his buddy Gus Russo.

Another coincidence, he and Gus get hired to do the 1993 PBS Special Who was Lee Harvey Oswald?

Now, when I called out this show as a set up from step one, Dale tried to say, no, I work in TV and that is not the way it is.  (Oh really?  https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/22/how-cbs-news-aided-the-jfk-cover-up/) 

Well, guess what, when the producer Mike Sullivan died. Dale admitted that Sullivan wanted that spin from the start! There is credibility for you.

Now is it just a coincidence that Russo and Myers stayed in that camp with some rather lucrative results?  PBS, ABC, NBC and cable?  

Maybe, maybe not.

Edited July 21, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Tom Gram]

16 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

And if they DID believe they had the right suspect even BEFORE they started fabricating evidence, please tell me what you think they based that belief on---if not the actual untainted evidence in the case?

They surely didn't "believe" a person was guilty on the basis of having no real and untainted evidence against him in the first place, right?

Alright, so all of that “untainted” evidence that led to prison and even death sentences of innocent people who were later exonerated totally justifies the DPD fabricating evidence to get a conviction. Got it. You’re really stretching, and the bold, italics, and enlarged font doesn’t help your case here. These guys were stooges, and would do whatever they needed to do to nail their suspect to the point of being full blown criminals. I highly recommend you read the link I posted in the “Message from DVP” thread.

[James DiEugenio]

Steve Thomas made a really good post about Beckley.

It seems both the FBI and DPD likely knew Oswald was there.

And that makes a heck of a lot of difference in the end game.

Steve is one of the best and most unnoted posters we have

[David Von Pein]

5 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Alright, so all of that “untainted” evidence that led to prison and even death sentences of innocent people who were later exonerated totally justifies the DPD fabricating evidence to get a conviction.

I never said anything of the kind. I merely wanted to know what made you think the DPD cops "believed" in the suspect's guilt in the first place.

[Sandy Larsen]

29 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

[The DPD] surely didn't "believe" a person was guilty on the basis of having no real and untainted evidence against him in the first place, right?

 

Surely the DPD had to have some reason to believe a suspect was guilty before fabricating evidence.

That is what the purpose of the the Tippit-site wallet was for, to implicate Oswald.