Example of Extreme Wound Ballistics on heashshot

[Al Carrier]

Anyone interested in seeing a .50 cal heashot which is extreme wound ballistics, I will e-mail it to you in reply if you e-mail me at polinst@mchsi.com. I will only send to those I know as serious researchers and adults and warn not to open in presence of children as it is very graphic. Note that the bullet was FMJ.

Al

[Antti Hynonen]

Al Carrier Posted Today, 05:52 AM

  Anyone interested in seeing a .50 cal heashot which is extreme wound ballistics, I will e-mail it to you in reply if you e-mail me at polinst@mchsi.com. I will only send to those I know as serious researchers and adults and warn not to open in presence of children as it is very graphic. Note that the bullet was FMJ.

Al

Al,

Perhaps you could write a few lines on this thread by just doing a general comparison of the photo you have and the available JFK photos?

I mean no photos needed on the thread, just discuss how the wounds are similar or how they differ, and what can be deduced from the comparison and JFK's wounds. Personally, I'd be interested in hearing more expert opinions as to whether it was likely that JFK's head wound was caused by a FMJ bullet or not and whether it could have been caused by a large caliber revolver or pistol (closer range), as opposed to a high powered rifle fired from a distance. Not knowing much, I would still argue that a full metal jacket bullet would typically cause a through and through wound, with a small entry wound and an exit wound varying in size and shape (even if hit in the head). However, I have a hard time believing that an exit wound caused by a FMJ bullet would take off a quarter of one's skull (like JFK).

Edited January 4, 2005 by Antti Hynonen

[Ryan Crowe]

Email sent buddy,

I just got some range time in with the Barrett, 1500 yards and is still simple with that beast...............Now if I can only find a range with 2000 yard markers.

[Al Carrier]

Al Carrier Posted Today, 05:52 AM

  Anyone interested in seeing a .50 cal heashot which is extreme wound ballistics, I will e-mail it to you in reply if you e-mail me at polinst@mchsi.com. I will only send to those I know as serious researchers and adults and warn not to open in presence of children as it is very graphic. Note that the bullet was FMJ.

Al

Al,

Perhaps you could write a few lines on this thread by just doing a general comparison of the photo you have and the available JFK photos?

I mean no photos needed on the thread, just discuss how the wounds are similar or how they differ, and what can be deduced from the comparison and JFK's wounds. Personally, I'd be interested in hearing more expert opinions as to whether it was likely that JFK's head wound was caused by a FMJ bullet or not and whether it could have been caused by a large caliber revolver or pistol (closer range), as opposed to a high powered rifle fired from a distance. Not knowing much, I would still argue that a full metal jacket bullet would typically cause a through and through wound, with a small entry wound and an exit wound varying in size and shape (even if hit in the head). However, I have a hard time believing that an exit wound caused by a FMJ bullet would take off a quarter of one's skull (like JFK).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Antti,

I would recommend that you e-mail me and have me send you the photo and go from there. What this is referring to is the dispersion of energy caused by a FMJ within a contained cavity such as the skull. With rifle caliber projectiles (1800fps or greater) the dispersion of energy is sufficient to create a wound cavity beyond the diameter of the projectile and that of the dispersion of energy rate, that would create such massive damage within the cavity and cause a severe disruption at the point of exit. The photo I am referring to is an extreme as it deals with a .50 caliber rifle projectile, but you will get the point when viewing it.

There is still so many who misunderstand this and believe that a compromised projectile that fragments can only cause this traumatic dispersion, when in truth, it is the opposite. The fragments loose energy quickly, and while they cause interior tissue damage, they do not create this internal explosive energy within the cavity and definately do not have the ability to maintain the energy and velocity to create the explosive damage at the point of exit.

Al

[Pat Speer]

Al, do you know the history behind this shot? Did the bullet fragment? As someone who's spent many hours combing through Forensic Journals, I have to admit I'm still curious.

[Antti Hynonen]

Al, I e-mailed you RE the photo.

As a non-expert in ballistics, I'd just want to confirm that the WC alleged weapon and caliber was a Mannlicher Carcano 6.5 mm. Al's photo is of a wound from a 50 cal. rifle. The 50 Cal. translates to 12,7 mm.

This is roughly twice the cailber as compared to the MC 6.5. How should this be taken into account when comparing the two shootings and the wounds?

Edited January 4, 2005 by Antti Hynonen

[Shanet Clark]

The 50 mm sniper rifle developed by Browning in the 1980s

was removed from the market January First in California.

My theory is that a .22 got him John Kennedy in the throat,

Rifle fire from the rear - 30.06? caused the Teague and forward

bone material (Roberdeau) and a final fatal headshot came in from the front left

and exited the right rear skull

and this is covered up in the Xrays and autopsy photos

to throw credibility back on the rear shooters, who got Connally and JFK in the back.

The Fifty Caliber didn't play a role, but I am interested in the silencers, small arms and special ammunition.

Also I believe more than one Mannlicher Carcano was in play,

possibly the Il Duce unmarked cache of Italian Guard rifles

captured and maintained by US forces in Italy in WWII.

I am convinced that the serial numbers show forgery and multiple "Oswald" rifles.

Perhaps a Mauser 7.6 (?) was found that day and suppressed, much evidence there.

Wim Dankbaar believes Jimmy Files shot JFK with a Large Pistol, the .222 Fireball.

Spotters, radio companions and drivers do indeed point to an ambush cell of three coordinated trios, nine people---before the evidentiary and intimidation sweeps, that adds ten to twenty more, the railroad observers, the men in suits sweeping the Plaza..........

Edited January 4, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Frank Agbat]

Mr. Carrier,

I've read some of your informative postings on this and other forums -- thank you very much for sharing your experience and expertise.

Do you happen to know the muzzle velocity and bullet weight for the 6.5mm MC firing a round similar to the one allegely used by LHO, or of a good site that lists some comparitive figures?

Regards,

Frank

[Al Carrier]

Mr. Carrier,

I've read some of your informative postings on this and other forums -- thank you very much for sharing your experience and expertise.

Do you happen to know the muzzle velocity and bullet weight for the 6.5mm MC firing a round similar to the one allegely used by LHO, or of a good site that lists some comparitive figures?

Regards,

Frank

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr. Carrier,

I've read some of your informative postings on this and other forums -- thank you very much for sharing your experience and expertise.

Do you happen to know the muzzle velocity and bullet weight for the 6.5mm MC firing a round similar to the one allegely used by LHO, or of a good site that lists some comparitive figures?

Regards,

Frank

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frank,

Thank you for the kind words. The 6.5mm MC fired a a variety of bullet weights, but the one found in the rifle on the sixth floor was a 160gr full metal jacketed bullet (FMJ) that had a muzzle velocity of 2000fps. I have one and have done my own testing with it and have attached a performance chart compiled by using the WBL ballistics calculator.

Al

Edited January 6, 2005 by Al Carrier

[Al Carrier]

Al, do you know the history behind this shot?  Did the bullet fragment?  As someone who's spent many hours combing through Forensic Journals, I have to admit I'm still curious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat,

This was an Iraqi insurgent shot by a sniper. Although I do not know for a fact whether the round fragged or not, I know that the projectile is not designed to fragg under these conditions.

Al

[Al Carrier]

Al, I e-mailed you RE the photo.

As a non-expert in ballistics, I'd just want to confirm that the WC alleged weapon and caliber was a Mannlicher Carcano 6.5 mm. Al's photo is of a wound from a 50 cal. rifle. The 50 Cal. translates to 12,7 mm.

This is roughly twice the cailber as compared to the MC 6.5. How should this be taken into account when comparing the two shootings and the wounds?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Antti,

This photo is not supposed to represent what a 6.5mm Carcano is capable of with a headshot, but is to show what a rifle is capable of in striking the head. The .50cal rifle load has three times the energy of that of the Carcano and the destructive force with by consistent with that multitude of energy.

I believe we are accepting too much to narrow our focus on the wound as one made by a 6.5mm MC. I am not saying that it was done by a .50, and in fact don't believe it for a moment as I have seen first hand what the fifty can do. I am showing a high range of rifle caliber destruction and you can compare that to the Lattimer test skulls and others to see there are some issues with what is seen in the Z-Film and other photographic evidence of the plaza.

Al

[Al Carrier]

The 50 mm sniper rifle developed by Browning in the 1980s

was removed from the market January First in California.

My theory is that a .22 got him John Kennedy in the throat,

Rifle fire from the rear - 30.06? caused the Teague and forward

bone material (Roberdeau) and a final fatal headshot came in from the front left

and exited the right rear skull

and this is covered up in the Xrays and autopsy photos

to throw credibility back on the rear shooters, who got Connally and JFK in the back.

The Fifty Caliber didn't play a role, but I am interested in the silencers, small arms and special ammunition.

Also I believe more than one Mannlicher Carcano was in play,

possibly the Il Duce unmarked cache of Italian Guard rifles

captured and maintained by US forces in Italy in WWII.

I am convinced that the serial numbers show forgery and multiple "Oswald" rifles.

Perhaps a Mauser 7.6 (?) was found that day and suppressed, much evidence there.

Wim Dankbaar believes Jimmy Files shot JFK with a Large Pistol, the .222 Fireball.

Spotters, radio companions and drivers do indeed point to an ambush cell of three coordinated trios, nine people---before the evidentiary and intimidation sweeps, that adds ten to twenty more, the railroad observers, the men in suits sweeping the Plaza..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Shanet. Been awhile since we exchanged here.

Again, I am not saying the fifty did play a part in DP and would have to say it did not. See my last reply to Antti regarding this.

I have issues with the use of a .22 being used in the assassination sequence. While it can be a lethal round, it would be on the low end percentage in comparison to a rifle round in the ranges of a .223 to 300 win mag and all in between. I don't believe a shot would be fired for any purpose, other than for a high probability elimination of the target. The one exception may have been the 6.5mm MC fired from the TSBD that would draw attention to that location and away from the forward shot origin(s).

If we are to accept the photos taken of the 6th floor of the TSBD, than we have to accept the fact that it was a 6.5mm MC rifle found there, as that is what was in the photos both on the floor and on the street in front of the TSBD after it was carried out.

Also, the fifty caliber rifle bullet was designed in the mid-fifties, as early as I can tell and it may have been earlier. This was a project of Remington. There have been many fifty caliber rifles over the years besides the Browning. The most popular today is the Barrett. In the early eighties, a popular off-shoot .50 sniper rifle for covert ops was the Martin' kit rifle produced in South America.

Al

Edited January 5, 2005 by Al Carrier

[Antti Hynonen]

Al Carrier  Today, 05:06 AM Post #11 

Experienced Member

Group: Members

Posts: 129

Joined: 1-November 04

Member No.: 1814

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Jan 4 2005, 11:46 AM)

Al, I e-mailed you RE the photo.

As a non-expert in ballistics, I'd just want to confirm that the WC alleged weapon and caliber was a Mannlicher Carcano 6.5 mm. Al's photo is of a wound from a 50 cal. rifle. The 50 Cal. translates to 12,7 mm.

This is roughly twice the cailber as compared to the MC 6.5. How should this be taken into account when comparing the two shootings and the wounds?

Antti,

This photo is not supposed to represent what a 6.5mm Carcano is capable of with a headshot, but is to show what a rifle is capable of in striking the head. The .50cal rifle load has three times the energy of that of the Carcano and the destructive force with by consistent with that multitude of energy.

I believe we are accepting too much to narrow our focus on the wound as one made by a 6.5mm MC. I am not saying that it was done by a .50, and in fact don't believe it for a moment as I have seen first hand what the fifty can do. I am showing a high range of rifle caliber destruction and you can compare that to the Lattimer test skulls and others to see there are some issues with what is seen in the Z-Film and other photographic evidence of the plaza.

Al

Al, thanks. I get the point. The picture makes it very clear what a rifle shot to the head can do. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, the damage to the person in the photo you sent is probably 4-5 times more severe than the damage to JFK 41 years ago.

I am not familiar with the Lattimer tests. It would be nice to hear more of your conclusions or ideas of what weapons were used to assassinate JFK 41 years ago, and how you came to these conclusions.

[Al Carrier]

Al, thanks. I get the point. The picture makes it very clear what a rifle shot to the head can do. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, the damage to the person in the photo you sent is probably 4-5 times more severe than the damage to JFK 41 years ago.

I am not familiar with the Lattimer tests. It would be nice to hear more of your conclusions or ideas of what weapons were used to assassinate JFK 41 years ago, and how you came to these conclusions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Antti, I will attach the Lattimer skull test photo and the two angle view of the FBI skull test photo here. Both were accepted as being consistent with the JFK headwound even though both showed extensive damage to the frontal lobe, that JFK did not.

Al

Edited January 6, 2005 by Al Carrier

[Al Carrier]

I have deleted this post.

Al

Edited January 6, 2005 by Al Carrier