POLICE CAR IN THE ALLEY? NOPE.

[Greg Doudna]

I found Brownlow's source for the Bowers' finger-losses story. Brownlow didn't make that story up. He learned it from others. He surely believed it was true. Whether it was actually true is not the issue here.

He wasn't lying, Bill. 

Here is the deal on that. http://dperry1943.com/bowers.html

Do you have anything else?

 

[Bill Brown]

3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

OK on the story of Bowers being kidnapped was wrong. He surely did not claim Bowers himself told him that, so where did he get that? Maybe some hearsay he picked up from somewhere, who knows. If Brownlow believed it was true then its not lying, its wrong but its not lying. Lying isn't simply being wrong, there must be wilfulness, knowing what is said is not true, wilfully saying what is untrue. Its like if something you insist is true turns out to be not so, that doesn't necessarily mean you are a xxxx, only that you were wrong. But you are calling Brownlow a xxxx which is a much more serious charge. Hate to be pendantic here, but your conclusion, as stated, does not follow from the anecdote cited. I am not saying Brownlow is a perfect reporter, only calling for precision and accuracy in your description and logic.   

But more important, where do you get this? You say:

"In another video, Brownlow says he was an 8 year old kid at the time of the assassination."

What video? Where did Brownlow say that? Source please?

Also, I am asking you to return a straight answer on the request for the fact check on the identification claim.

I don't care what the answer is, but I am asking you for an accurate, to-the-point fact check.

Do you personally believe that your Brownlow, the Dealey Plaza Brownlow, is the Michael George Brownlow born in the Texas Panhandle in 1955 with the rap sheet that Myers says he is?

 

"OK on the story of Bowers being kidnapped was wrong. He surely did not claim Bowers himself told him that, so where did he get that? Maybe some hearsay he picked up from somewhere, who knows. If Brownlow believed it was true then its not lying, its wrong but its not lying. Lying isn't simply being wrong, there must be wilfulness, knowing what is said is not true, wilfully saying what is untrue."

 

Did you miss the part where I told you that Brownlow, after it was pointed out to him that Bowers indeed has all fingers accounted for in the Rush To Judgement film, still decided to tell the same story about a year later?  He most likely never did stop telling that story despite being made aware that Bowers still had all ten fingers a couple years after the supposed (yeah right) kidnapping incident.

 

[Ron Bulman]

5 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

had three fingers cut off and then dumped from a car into an alley. 

Brownlow told you this personally about Bowers?  He had to have the finger sewn back on, to knock on the table . . . ???

[Ron Bulman]

6 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Brownlow consistently says he was born and raised in Dallas and says he has been in Dallas his entire life. He says he grew up in Oak Cliff near officer Hargis when he was a boy. But according to Myers, Michael G. Brownlow was born in Potter County, Texas which is w-a-a-aaay to the northwest up in the Texas Panhandle!

My wife was born in Amarillo, Potter County Texas.  Fortunately not raised in the desolate place.

 

[Greg Doudna]

9 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

 

"OK on the story of Bowers being kidnapped was wrong. He surely did not claim Bowers himself told him that, so where did he get that? Maybe some hearsay he picked up from somewhere, who knows. If Brownlow believed it was true then its not lying, its wrong but its not lying. Lying isn't simply being wrong, there must be wilfulness, knowing what is said is not true, wilfully saying what is untrue."

 

Did you miss the part where I told you that Brownlow, after it was pointed out to him that Bowers indeed has all fingers accounted for in the Rush To Judgement film, still decided to tell the same story about a year later?  He most likely never did stop telling that story despite being made aware that Bowers still had all ten fingers a couple years after the supposed (yeah right) kidnapping incident.

 

No I didn’t miss that. Once people believe a certain thing they continue believing it, even if told counter information to the contrary, in this case some hearsay anecdote you told Brownlow. What you have described is simply persistence in a mistaken belief.

Do you have anything to show Brownlow fabricated claims to have interviewed witnesses who denied interviews happened, or witnesses who say Brownlow fabricated the content of interviews?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Bill Brown]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Brownlow told you this personally about Bowers?  He had to have the finger sewn back on, to knock on the table . . . ???

 

Yes.  Once I pointed out to Brownlow that Bowers has all ten fingers present when he appeared in the film Rush To Judgement, Brownlow's response immediately was "Well, he must have had them sewn back on".

 

Also, you said "finger" above.  Brownlow said it was three fingers.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Bill Brown

[Greg Doudna]

The criminal record of "Michael G. Brownlow" I paid $9.99 to obtain online were dates and dispositions of court cases but had no mug shots. Maybe Myers has seen mug shots of "Michael G. Brownlow" that are the same as Dealey Plaza Brownlow? That would establish the identity. Hard to imagine Myers would get that wrong. If he is "Michael G. Brownlow" with the rap sheet, then Brownlow was living a lie in a bigger way than realized--lying about his place of birth, about having been born in Dallas and in Dallas his entire life, about his age, about having been at Dealey Plaza for the JFK assassination. About picking out two random women standing apart from the boy he says is him elsewhere in crowd photos and saying they were his aunt and grandmother.

Pulte and Hargis, the motorcycle officer, seemed to believe him. Maybe he conned them?

No relatives or friends who knew him from earlier years seem known or to have come forth to vouch for him. No independent identity I can find for Dealey Plaza Brownlow if he isn't "Michael G. Brownlow" with the rap sheet and different age. 

I am not aware of hard evidence that either establishes that "Michael G. Brownlow" with the rap sheet is or isn't Dealey Plaza Brownlow, but pending such evidence, I'm thinking now it is more likely Myers is right. 

 

[Bill Brown]

7 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

No I didn’t miss that. Once people believe a certain thing they continue believing it, even if told counter information to the contrary, in this case some hearsay anecdote you told Brownlow. What you have described is simply persistence in a mistaken belief.

Do you have anything to show Brownlow fabricated claims to have interviewed witnesses who denied interviews happened, or witnesses who say Brownlow fabricated the content of interviews?

 

Look Greg.  This is real simple.  To me, Brownlow has zero credibility.  Multiple lies.  Proven lies.  No thanks.  You can hang on his every word if you like.  Up to you.

 

[Greg Doudna]

4 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Look Greg.  This is real simple.  To me, Brownlow has zero credibility.  Multiple lies.  Proven lies.  No thanks.  You can hang on his every word if you like.  Up to you.

This has nothing to do with "hanging on his every word". Red herring. There has to be critical scrutiny, in Brownlow's case more than usual. 

The case at issue of the Mrs. Holan interview claim has corroboration from a second witness, Pulte, that the contact happened, that there was contact. And the only reason Brownlow would be talking to Mrs. Holan at all would not be to exchange social pleasantries, but to talk about anything she might know of the JFK assassination. So that is established so far as that goes. 

There is also the detail in the hearsay of Mrs. Holan's story startlingly confirmed in terms of her then-unknown Patton Street true address, that "Oswald" with gun in hand ran right toward and under and past her window. Does not correspond to the 10th Street address Brownlow believed. But does astonishingly accurately correspond to Mrs. Holan's true address. In Brownlow's retelling, Mrs. Holan said she saw that, and from where she was truly living, she would have on Patton. 

That detail gives this particular story (the hearsay story passed via Brownlow, as distinguished from Brownlow) some credibility as not being total invention.

Then the question is whether, if one part of the hearsay story of Mrs. Holan is true (she seeing "Oswald" run toward her window and then go past her window on Patton), maybe the part about seeing the patrol car across from her in a driveway or alley could be too.

And in this particular case there is the independent story told by Myers of the high-level source who told Myers that there was a police officer secretly at the scene of the Tippit crime scene when the murder happened, and a coverup of that. That agrees and adds support to the Mrs. Holan story understood as from Mrs. Holan's Patton Street address, which is otherwise not falsified on any serious grounds.

It may be rejection of some important witness information to dismiss all this because of the flawed messenger (Brownlow). That's my point to you.

Without making this an issue about whether Brownlow lived a lie about his age and identity and his resume claim of presence at Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination.

[Greg Doudna]

I’ve now done the fact check. There is no other Michael Brownlow in Dallas from major databases such as Spokeo and others like it, than “Michael G. Brownlow”, of different age and place of birth than what Brownlow said of himself. Somewhat surprisingly not brought out until Myers 2020’s first reporting of the identification, rap sheet and all.

Spokeo lists only two Michael Brownlows in Dallas. One is Michael G Brownlow, age 67 (now in 2023), lived also in Cleburne and Bedford Texas. The other is “Mic Brownlow”, no age given, aka Michael G Brownlow, also lived in Bedford Texas. In other words the same one. And there is no other Michael Brownlow in Dallas five years older as Brownlow represented himself.

Michael G. Brownlow, born in the Panhandle in 1955 but in Dallas in his adult life with the rap sheet, is the Dealey Plaza Brownlow, who represented himself as of a different age and as born in Dallas. Myers made no mistake on this and broke the truth of Brownlow’s identity and true age. It is now pretty clear to me that Brownlow, after taking an interest in the JFK assassination, picked out three random persons in group photos of Dealey Plaza on Nov 22, 1963, claimed they were him as a boy and his aunt and his grandmother, but unusually standing separate from each other in the crowd not together as would be expected (and of all places to watch on the parade route, fortuitously at Dealey Plaza), and fabricated the story of his presence as a 13-year old Dealey Plaza witness that day matching the age appearance of the boy he picked out in the photo that he claimed was him. He altered his personal history in key ways I assume out of embarrassment over the rap sheet. 

Doesn’t change my analysis of the Mrs. Holan story told via Brownlow for reasons explained. 

[Paul Jolliffe]

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

I’ve now done the fact check. There is no other Michael Brownlow in Dallas from major databases such as Spokeo and others like it, than “Michael G. Brownlow”, of different age and place of birth than what Brownlow said of himself. Somewhat surprisingly not brought out until Myers 2020’s first reporting of the identification, rap sheet and all.

Spokeo lists only two Michael Brownlows in Dallas. One is Michael G Brownlow, age 67 (now in 2023), lived also in Cleburne and Bedford Texas. The other is “Mic Brownlow”, no age given, aka Michael G Brownlow, also lived in Bedford Texas. In other words the same one. And there is no other Michael Brownlow in Dallas five years older as Brownlow represented himself.

Michael G. Brownlow, born in the Panhandle in 1955 but in Dallas in his adult life with the rap sheet, is the Dealey Plaza Brownlow, who represented himself as of a different age and as born in Dallas. Myers made no mistake on this and broke the truth of Brownlow’s identity and true age. It is now pretty clear to me that Brownlow, after taking an interest in the JFK assassination, picked out three random persons in group photos of Dealey Plaza on Nov 22, 1963, claimed they were him as a boy and his aunt and his grandmother, but unusually standing separate from each other in the crowd not together as would be expected (and of all places to watch on the parade route, fortuitously at Dealey Plaza), and fabricated the story of his presence as a 13-year old Dealey Plaza witness that day matching the age appearance of the boy he picked out in the photo that he claimed was him. He altered his personal history in key ways I assume out of embarrassment over the rap sheet. 

Doesn’t change my analysis of the Mrs. Holan story told via Brownlow for reasons explained. 

Greg,

All of this is window dressing: the real issues are "Was there a second law enforcement officer in the very near vicinity at the time of Tippit's murder? If so, who was he and why was he there? How did he get there? How did he leave? Was his presence connected in any way to Tippit's murder?"

And:

"Did Doris Holan (no matter how much Brownlow and Pulte garbled her story) actually see a cop car in the alley?"

The fact that a Dallas official confirmed to Dale Myers himself that an officer really was there at that moment is deeply troubling. 

While it's conceivable that there is an "innocent" explanation, in this case, we should not accept that on its own. 

A never-identified officer right there, apparently.

A cop car in the alley, apparently.

A cover-up, according to the Dallas official.

These are very concerning issues and cannot be downplayed.

 

 

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

I’ve now done the fact check. There is no other Michael Brownlow in Dallas from major databases such as Spokeo and others like it, than “Michael G. Brownlow”, of different age and place of birth than what Brownlow said of himself. Somewhat surprisingly not brought out until Myers 2020’s first reporting of the identification, rap sheet and all.

Spokeo lists only two Michael Brownlows in Dallas. One is Michael G Brownlow, age 67 (now in 2023), lived also in Cleburne and Bedford Texas. The other is “Mic Brownlow”, no age given, aka Michael G Brownlow, also lived in Bedford Texas. In other words the same one. And there is no other Michael Brownlow in Dallas five years older as Brownlow represented himself.

Michael G. Brownlow, born in the Panhandle in 1955 but in Dallas in his adult life with the rap sheet, is the Dealey Plaza Brownlow, who represented himself as of a different age and as born in Dallas. Myers made no mistake on this and broke the truth of Brownlow’s identity and true age. It is now pretty clear to me that Brownlow, after taking an interest in the JFK assassination, picked out three random persons in group photos of Dealey Plaza on Nov 22, 1963, claimed they were him as a boy and his aunt and his grandmother, but unusually standing separate from each other in the crowd not together as would be expected (and of all places to watch on the parade route, fortuitously at Dealey Plaza), and fabricated the story of his presence as a 13-year old Dealey Plaza witness that day matching the age appearance of the boy he picked out in the photo that he claimed was him. He altered his personal history in key ways I assume out of embarrassment over the rap sheet. 

Doesn’t change my analysis of the Mrs. Holan story told via Brownlow for reasons explained. 

 

"He altered his personal history in key ways I assume out of embarrassment over the rap sheet."

 

Really?  How about this...

He altered his personal history in key ways in order to place himself in Daeley Plaza that day.

In his little project "Shattered Friday" (in the early 2000's, if I recall correctly), Brownlow told Ernest Brandt, on video, that he was eight years old at the time of the assassination.  Then at some point years later, he spots the photo of the black youth in Dealey Plaza and, knowing the youth appears older than 8 years old (Brownlow's true age), he inserts himself into the photo and begins claiming he was there that day as a 13 year old.

 

Why is this so difficult to understand?

 

[Greg Doudna]

1 minute ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Greg,

All of this is window dressing: the real issues are "Was there a second law enforcement officer in the very near vicinity at the time of Tippit's murder? If so, who was he and why was he there? How did he get there? How did he leave? Was his presence connected in any way to Tippit's murder?"

And:

"Did Doris Holan (no matter how much Brownlow and Pulte garbled her story) actually see a cop car in the alley?"

The fact that a Dallas official confirmed to Dale Myers himself that an officer really was there at that moment is deeply troubling. 

While it's conceivable that there is an "innocent" explanation, in this case, we should not accept that on its own. 

A never-identified officer right there, apparently.

A cop car in the alley, apparently.

A cover-up, according to the Dallas official.

These are very concerning issues and cannot be downplayed.

Agreed. Those are the issues that matter. 

[Greg Doudna]

41 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

In his little project "Shattered Friday" (in the early 2000's, if I recall correctly), Brownlow told Ernest Brandt, on video, that he was eight years old at the time of the assassination.  Then at some point years later, he spots the photo of the black youth in Dealey Plaza and, knowing the youth appears older than 8 years old (Brownlow's true age), he inserts himself into the photo and begins claiming he was there that day as a 13 year old.

I verified that: he did say he was eight years old that day (his accurate correct age that day) when talking to Brandt in that interview in 2008, before later claiming he was thirteen.

[Greg Doudna]

How unusual or not was it that there is no written report from Courson for Nov 22? How did it work on who was expected to submit a written report and who wasn’t? 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Greg Doudna