POLICE CAR IN THE ALLEY? NOPE.

[Greg Doudna]

Bill Brown, do you have any idea why none of the witnesses gathered at the Tippit crime scene ever noticed Courson in a patrol car racing backwards on E. Tenth Street?

Courson was at both 10th Street and the Texas Theatre where Oswald was arrested by his own 1998 Sneed account, confirmed at the Texas Theatre from a police radio call-in that day. Do you have any idea why there was no written report from Courson for that day, when every other officer and deputy sheriff involved turned in reports?

Do you have any idea why nobody ever heard of deputy sheriff Courson's presence at the Tippit crime scene until Courson told of it in Sneed 1998? Isn't that an odd and slightly belated manner to learn of a deputy sheriff's presence at the Tippit crime scene for the first time? So little noticed that Myers in his 2013 revised edition of his exhaustive study of the case never notices Courson was at the crime scene at all? Because Myers after studying all the police reports and primary documentation, missed Courson's story in the 1998 popular book. 

Lack of expected written report from deputy sheriff Courson ... not a single corroborating witness placing Courson at the Tippit crime scene in the way Courson claimed in 1998 that he was there ... Courson by his own account turning up in day-old street clothes, the same clothes he wore the day before, at the Texas Theatre at the time of Oswald's arrest ... the high-level story told to Myers of a coverup of an officer at the Tippit crime scene who "observed the killer fleeing the scene", whose identity and existence at the scene was covered up at high levels ...

Brownlow garbled Doris Holan's story in the retelling, of Doris Holan telling of seeing the gunman run by her window, seeing another man across the street from her weighing over two hundred pounds agreeing in description with Callaway, and seeing a police cruiser backing away from her across the street from her after the shots, elements which, unknown to Brownlow, agree with line of sight from Doris Holan's location that day on Patton.

Brownlow told of Doris Holan seeing a patrol car backing away from her, and leaving, in the alley (Brownlow did use the word "alley" there). Brownlow added the driveway part, but Doris Holan did have the patrol car, according to Brownlow, leaving in the alley.

And Brownlow retold that not knowing that Doris Holan was on Patton in position to have seen a patrol car in the alley. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Bill Brown]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:27 PM, Michael Kalin said:

There were exactly two houses between Tippit's body & the corner. The 100 yard distance described in Moriarty's HSCA report put Bowley in the 300 block of E. 10th. Nothing prevented him from proceeding through the intersection, consistent with his desire to protect his daughter from an ugly sight.

You lost track of the plot.

 

No.

 

You're not listening.

 

Bowley approached from the east and pulled over BEFORE ever reaching Tippit's stopped patrol car.  He did not pass the stopped patrol car, which he would have to do in order to end up in the 300 block of East Tenth.

 

You're confused about something here.

 

[Michael Kalin]

18 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Bowley approached from the east and pulled over BEFORE ever reaching Tippit's stopped patrol car.  He did not pass the stopped patrol car, which he would have to do in order to end up in the 300 block of East Tenth.

The DPD affidavit says nothing about this.

Moriarty's report states, "As he approached the corner of 10th and Patton Street, he noticed a person lying on the ground in front of and near the left front wheel of a police car." The 100 yard distance specified in the same report if measured from east of the corpse would have left Bowley at the opposite intersection of 10th & Denver.

Into the Nightmare says the car was parked "down" and the walk to the murder site was "up," corresponding to the address numbering system in effect.

If there was a different custom regarding ups & downs in Dallas don't bother telling me. It is irrelevant to the point in question -- whether Bowley's statements support Benavides' claim that he arrived at the scene as the murder was being committed. They do not.

Here's something to think about. Bowley's radio call succeeded in making contact with the DPD dispatcher after 1:16. This means Benavides "pulled the radio and...mashed the button" at 1:15 or later, creating a five minute span during which Guinyard observed his arrival. Bowley could have parked anywhere, including the Abundant Life Temple's parking lot, provided he was close enough to reach the squad car on foot within five minutes where he observed Benavides playing with the radio.

[Bill Brown]

 

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared T.F. Bowley w/m/35 of 1454 Summertime Lane, TE6 5965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

On Friday November 22, 1963 I picked up my daughter at the R. L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at about 12:55 pm. I then left the school to pick up my wife who was at work at the Telephone Company at Ninth Street and Zangs Street. I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene. I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene. When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it was. A few minutes later an ambulance came to the scene. I helped load the officer onto the stretcher and into the ambulance. As we picked the officer up, I noticed his pistol laying on the ground under him. Someone picked the pistol up and laid it on the hood of the squad car. When the ambulance left, I took the gun and put it inside the squad car. A man took the pistol out and said, "Let's catch him." He opened the cylinder, and I saw that no rounds in it had been fired. This man then took the pistol with him and got into a cab and drove off. The police arrived and I talked to a police sergeant at the scene I told him I did not witness the shooting and after questioning me, he said it was all right for me to leave. I then went on to the Telephone Company office at Ninth and Zangs.

/s/ T. F. Bowley

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 2 DAY OF December A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

cut

A man took the pistol out and said, "Let's catch him." He opened the cylinder, and I saw that no rounds in it had been fired. This man then took the pistol with him and got into a cab and drove off.

cut
 

So the year was 1863 and not 1963, my mistake...

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Bill Brown]

On 10/17/2022 at 12:20 PM, Michael Kalin said:

The DPD affidavit says nothing about this.

Moriarty's report states, "As he approached the corner of 10th and Patton Street, he noticed a person lying on the ground in front of and near the left front wheel of a police car." The 100 yard distance specified in the same report if measured from east of the corpse would have left Bowley at the opposite intersection of 10th & Denver.

Into the Nightmare says the car was parked "down" and the walk to the murder site was "up," corresponding to the address numbering system in effect.

 

T.F. Bowley affidavit (12/2/63):

 

"I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene."

 

Bowley did not drive past the stopped patrol car and the body.  He stopped BEFORE he reached the car and walked the rest of the way.

Learn the evidence.

 

[Bill Brown]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:27 PM, Michael Kalin said:

There were exactly two houses between Tippit's body & the corner. The 100 yard distance described in Moriarty's HSCA report put Bowley in the 300 block of E. 10th. Nothing prevented him from proceeding through the intersection, consistent with his desire to protect his daughter from an ugly sight.

You lost track of the plot.

 

You are under the mistaken impression that Bowley drove past the patrol car and the body before crossing over Patton, parking and getting out of his car in the next block down on Tenth.  Truth is, he pulled over and got out before he actually reached the car.

 

Beginning at the 5;52 mark...

 

"Turned onto the street, noticed the police car and the officer laying by it.  So I parked a good ways back because I didn't want my 12 year old daughter to see it.  Got out and went up there."

 

https://archive.org/details/JFKAssassinationHuntingOswald

[Michael Kalin]

6 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

You are under the mistaken impression that Bowley drove past the patrol car and the body before crossing over Patton, parking and getting out of his car in the next block down on Tenth.  Truth is, he pulled over and got out before he actually reached the car.

 

Beginning at the 5;52 mark...

 

"Turned onto the street, noticed the police car and the officer laying by it.  So I parked a good ways back because I didn't want my 12 year old daughter to see it.  Got out and went up there."

So I was, thanks for clearing this up. The video is unequivocal, although the 1:17 time is wrong.

This issue came up in the context of Benavides' arrival time. I don't see how Bowley's parking location makes a bit of difference. He still cannot confirm that Benavides had arrived at the time of the murder.

[Bill Brown]

46 minutes ago, Michael Kalin said:

So I was, thanks for clearing this up. The video is unequivocal, although the 1:17 time is wrong.

This issue came up in the context of Benavides' arrival time. I don't see how Bowley's parking location makes a bit of difference. He still cannot confirm that Benavides had arrived at the time of the murder.

 

"I don't see how Bowley's parking location makes a bit of difference."

 

It matters a little, when trying to reconstruct Bowley's movements in an attempt to set a timeline.  I wanted you (and more importantly, anyone else reading, who may be unaware) to understand how it really went down.  This only dragged out because when corrected, you insisted that you "have no mistaken beliefs about Bowley".

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Bill Brown

[Bill Brown]

47 minutes ago, Michael Kalin said:

So I was, thanks for clearing this up. The video is unequivocal, although the 1:17 time is wrong.

This issue came up in the context of Benavides' arrival time. I don't see how Bowley's parking location makes a bit of difference. He still cannot confirm that Benavides had arrived at the time of the murder.

 

"This issue came up in the context of Benavides' arrival time."

 

Benavides said that he watched the killer go around the corner and sat there in his truck for "a second or two" before getting out and going over to the patrol car to get on the radio (The Warren Report, 1967, CBS, part 3).  Benavides is on the radio probably sixty to seventy-five seconds after the last shot.  He can be heard keying the mic at 1:15.

 

[Michael Kalin]

2 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Benavides said that he watched the killer go around the corner and sat there in his truck for "a second or two" before getting out and going over to the patrol car to get on the radio (The Warren Report, 1967, CBS, part 3).  Benavides is on the radio probably sixty to seventy-five seconds after the last shot.  He can be heard keying the mic at 1:15.

We know that Benavides lied to the WC about making the citizens call to the DPD so why accept the rest of his story?

The correct times of events are given in Markham's & Bowley's respective DPD affidavits.

1. The murder: 1:06.
2. Bowley's arrival: 1:10.

Read my preceding comments this thread for other reasons why Benavides' WC testimony is full of holes.

[Michael Kalin]

SA Barrett's brief 3/16/64 report is instrumental when analyzing the times. It contains two pieces of critical information.

The first is that "The distance from the front door of the washateria at 328 East 9th Street to the northwest corner of the intersection at East 10th and Patton Streets was walked and timed and this time was two minutes and thirty seconds."

The actual distance is not much more than 400 feet, say 1/12 of a mile, so Barrett must have been carrying a heavy load. A sluggish pace of 24 minutes per mile will cover the distance in two minutes flat. A typical walking pace of 20 minutes per mile gets Markham to the intersection in under two minutes, easily by 1:06.

The second is that it was ascertained from the Dallas Transit System that the bus stopped at Jefferson & Patton at 1:12. The WR's 1:15 is false.

This is the real evidence of the time of the shooting. The location where Bowley parked is an incidental fact. His arrival was known to everybody except the Warren Commission.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Michael Kalin
date correction

[Bill Brown]

8 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

SA Barrett's brief 3/16/64 report is instrumental when analyzing the times. It contains two pieces of critical information.

The first is that "The distance from the front door of the washateria at 328 East 9th Street to the northwest corner of the intersection at East 10th and Patton Streets was walked and timed and this time was two minutes and thirty seconds."

The actual distance is not much more than 400 feet, say 1/12 of a mile, so Barrett must have been carrying a heavy load. A sluggish pace of 24 minutes per mile will cover the distance in two minutes flat. A typical walking pace of 20 minutes per mile gets Markham to the intersection in under two minutes, easily by 1:06.

The second is that it was ascertained from the Dallas Transit System that the bus stopped at Jefferson & Patton at 1:12. The WR's 1:15 is false.

This is the real evidence of the time of the shooting. The location where Bowley parked is an incidental fact. His arrival was known to everybody except the Warren Commission.

 

"The second is that it was ascertained from the Dallas Transit System that the bus stopped at Jefferson & Patton at 1:12. The WR's 1:15 is false."

 

No.

 

The Warren Commission never made any claim about any bus stop at 1:15.  What are you talking about?

 

Ball asked Markham what time she "got her bus" and her reply was "1:15".  The FBI ascertained (from the Dallas Transit System) that a bus stopped there at 1:12, 1:22 and every ten minutes thereafter.  You don't get to just mention the 1:12 bus  without mentioning the 1:22 bus as well.  Markham never said she was catching a 1:12 bus and therefore the possibility remains that she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus.

[Ron Bulman]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:18 AM, Bill Brown said:

I have spoken to Mike Brownlow at least a half dozen times in person.  I know for a fact that he is full of lies and "tall-tales".  I can give examples if you really do insist.  He'll say anything to make a buck or two.  It is my opinion that Doris Holan never said any of this to him or Livingstone or Pulte.  I also do not believe that Sam Guinyard ever told Brownlow (supposedly in 1970, if I recall correctly) that he (Guinyard) saw a police car in the alley.

 

So you paid Brownlow a buck or two a half dozen time to talk to him?

[Bill Brown]

2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

So you paid Brownlow a buck or two a half dozen time to talk to him?

 

I've never given him a penny. Though I did offer to pay for his dinner one night if he wanted to join us for BBQ.