Is it plausible Bonnie Ray Williams was interrupted during his lunch, and ordered to leave the 6th floor ?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pete Mellor said:

Great thread this.

I've always suspected something surrounding Williams' story of eating his lunch on the 6th floor while the accused sniper is silently hiding behind his stack of boxes in the corner!  A ridiculous scenario!

Was he threatened by the real mechanics to leave & keep quiet?  Did he ever divulge any secrets to his family about these events?

I can't find anything on B.R. Williams, I don't have a clue what happened to the man in his later life. 

I think only Norman was found and contacted a number of times (in the 1990's), but his statements are confusing, he seemed ready to talk when he didn't work anymore, but died before the researcher was to contact him again (the story is on Pat's website). 

[Pat Speer]

12 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Did you know that if there was no follow up interviews with the 3 boys, after their initial statements, you'd come away thinking Williams was with the other two the whole upstairs time.

I suspect that Williams feared for his safety when he left his sixth floor visit out of his initial statement. I'm just not sure if he was more afraid of the police...or someone else...

In any event, I'm pretty sure he came out and told the truth after reports began circling that the shooter ate chicken while he waited. He may have realized that his prints were all over the pop bottle, and he wanted to explain before he was forced to explain. 

Of course, no test results were published on the pop bottle... So his coming forward may have been unnecessary.... 

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

But there are a number of things that need checking,  e.g. : 

1) At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon. These employees were: Bill Shelley, Charles Givens, Billy Lovelady, Bonnie Ray (last name not known) and a Spanish boy (his name I cannot remember)

2) After Williams picked up his lunch on the first floor he returned to the sixth floor (so, did he buy it in the morning or did he walk outside to buy it at noon ?)

 

I don't think the lunch truck guy was ever interviewed, but I think he came by sometime before lunch. I worked at a place with a lunch truck where the driver once explained to me his route. As I recall, he stopped at two places every morning where he sold coffee and breakfast for a half-hour at each location, then had two other 15 minute stops where people essentially bought snacks and sandwiches, then had two places where he sold hot lunch for 45 minutes each if I recall. And then had a few 15-minute afternoon break stops. The details escape me and aren't that important. But what I learned is that a driver will have multiple stops and not necessarily go back to the same stops. And this means that some folks are forced to buy sandwiches ahead of their lunch period. 

Well, thinking back, I think I know why I suspect the truck came before lunch. The main advantage of the lunch truck I used to frequent was that it had a grill and served hot food. Most of the people eating from the truck at lunch bought snacks and drinks or bought from the grill. While there were some plastic-wrapped sandwiches, there were usually only a few as most of the them had been sold at another location prior to lunch, that is, at a location where the driver did not fire up his grill. 

As far as the "Spanish boy" that's Danny Arce.  

[Guest]

Just found the possibly time (if this was about the foodtruck, I know at some places you could order food a day in advance or so and they would deliver the next day, regular catering).

But this is probably the food truck they are talking about, so Williams would have bought it and stored it in the refrig. to pick it up at noon.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
saving space

[Paul Jolliffe]

13 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Did you know that if there was no follow up interviews with the 3 boys, after their initial statements, you'd come away thinking Williams was with the other two the whole upstairs time.

Good point, Tony.

Many researchers for decades have long suspected that the FBI deliberately "modified" witness statements to fit a "no-conspiracy" scenario.

In this case, they altered the length of time Wiliams spent on the sixth floor. They claimed he was only up there for three minutes - and therefore, if he left around 12:03, it would seem plausible to anyone reading their account of the interview, that Williams did NOT cross paths with the mechanics/conspirators. The FBI feared/knew that if they quoted Williams' own time estimate accurately, then it was virtually impossible for him not have seen or heard anyone else on the sixth floor.

I am virtually certain that not only did Bonnie Ray Williams come face-to-face with some of the conspirators, but that the FBI also suspected it and intentionally shortened in their report the length of time Williams actually spent on the sixth floor.

 

[Pat Speer]

On 10/27/2022 at 8:57 AM, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Just found the possibly time (if this was about the foodtruck, I know at some places you could order food a day in advance or so and they would deliver the next day, regular catering).

But this is probably the food truck they are talking about, so Williams would have bought it and stored it in the refrig. to pick it up at noon.

 

 

Thanks. I'd come to the suspicion the lunch truck came at 10 from my own experience, but also felt sure it was in the record somewhere. You found it. 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Guest]

Good ol' Wes explained it in detail

Now, he is saying lunch from 12:00  to 12:45  

I must have gotten something wrong, didn't it normally start at 11:45 ???

So probably they all stopped a little before noon, get their stuff and ready for luch by 12:00

Making the "exact" timing a little harder....

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
saving space

[Guest]

"On the chicken-trail" I found this one, Molina's timing of his talk to Piper is confusing.... if all of this was said in his first talk with Piper.... they had it all wrapped up.  I think he simply forgot to mention some of this information came to him later that day (and test. dd. 11/23).

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
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[Mark Knight]

I once worked in a plant that had a "catering truck" come by. We called it the "roach coach." While our morning break was "scheduled" from 10:15 to 10:30 am, the truth was, once the "roach coach" hit the lot, our break began. If the "roach coach" came at 10:05 or 10:10, that's when break started, still ending at 10:30 am.

The truck that serviced our location had hot sandwiches and coffee/hot chocolate in the rear, and the right side had prepackaged cold sandwiches, salads, cold sodas, and other cold items. The left side had chips and other items that didn't require a particular temperature.

So perhaps Oswald bought some fruit from the "roach coach." That would explain him saying he had some fruit for lunch...a banana, an apple, whatever. So maybe his "lunch" in the bag he brought in Frazier's car was a sandwich. Who knows? I know that when I was working this job with the "roach coach," I was about Oswald's age. Some days, even when I brought a lunch from home, I'd check out the "roach coach" to see if maybe he had something I'd rather have than what I brought. 

But I think we've established that Bonnie Ray Williams bought his chicken sandwich from the "roach coach," and left it on either the first floor or second floor while he was working on the crew laying plywood flooring on the 6th floor. That would logically mean that Williams left the 6th floor to retrieve his lunch from where it was stashed on the lower floors, and then returned to the 6th floor.

So why did Jarman and the others from the floor-laying crew NOT return to the 6th floor, as Williams did? Why did they go to the 5th floor? That doesn't quite add up, in my view. Perhaps more people than Williams knew more about the 6th floor than they ever let on.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

But I think we've established that Bonnie Ray Williams bought his chicken sandwich from the "roach coach," and left it on either the first floor or second floor while he was working on the crew laying plywood flooring on the 6th floor. That would logically mean that Williams left the 6th floor to retrieve his lunch from where it was stashed on the lower floors, and then returned to the 6th floor.

So why did Jarman and the others from the floor-laying crew NOT return to the 6th floor, as Williams did? Why did they go to the 5th floor? That doesn't quite add up, in my view. Perhaps more people than Williams knew more about the 6th floor than they ever let on.

Very good question.

 

 

 

    

[Guest]

As mentioned before : at about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon. These employees were: Bill Shelley, Charles Givens, Billy Lovelady, Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce (thanks Pat, didn't know the man's name).   

So Bonnie Ray likely did not go straigt to the domino or lunchroom to get his lunch, he even went outside first ?  

Next he starts his way up, picking-up his lunch, getting a coke, and starts eating on 6th.

        

I'm going to make a little project on their movements once they stopped working on 6th, see what comes out of it.

Will take some time.  

[Guest]

A quick note : looking at Jarman's WC statement : he also got a sandwich from the truck, ate it while walking on 1st, threw the paper in the box and the bottle in the can (next to the machine).   

 

[Ron Bulman]

Partially finished chicken found on the 6th floor.  Somebody didn't finish lunch.

We got chicken in our bones, bones. bones. . .  Whole lotta shakin going on here.

 

[Guest]

Interludium on Day and the fingerprints (just to include this in the topic) 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
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[Guest]

As I will show all the documents, incl. the ones that could lead to an opposite conclusion...

The statement below however, is contradictory to Day's statement, it sure was a mess !   

Now, I am sure I also read a statement that said someone put the leftovers IN the bag...  haven't been able to retrieve that one  (was reading the WC testimonies months ago, so it has to be somewhere in there...)

In the bag, out the bag, in again,... we can keep on going for some time...  I can't promiss a chicken in every pot, but at this point I’m beginning to think Fritz put at least one bone in his pocket as well.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
saving space