Oswald Denied Living At Neely Street

[Gerry Down]

One of Bugliosis talking points in his interviews used be that while in custody, Oswald told one demonstrable lie after another. One of the most notable of these can be seen in Will Fritzs WC testimony:

Mr. FRITZ. I asked him about the Neely Street address and he denied that address. He denied having a picture made over there and he even denied living there. I told him he had people who visited him over there and he said they were just wrong about visiting.

Oswald denied living at Neely Street even though he lived there with Marina and June and was visited there by Michael & Ruth Paine, George de Mohrenschildt etc. 

Why did Oswald lie about living at Neely street?

[Bill Brown]

14 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

One of Bugliosis talking points in his interviews used be that while in custody, Oswald told one demonstrable lie after another. One of the most notable of these can be seen in Will Fritzs WC testimony:

Mr. FRITZ. I asked him about the Neely Street address and he denied that address. He denied having a picture made over there and he even denied living there. I told him he had people who visited him over there and he said they were just wrong about visiting.

Oswald denied living at Neely Street even though he lived there with Marina and June and was visited there by Michael & Ruth Paine, George de Mohrenschildt etc. 

Why did Oswald lie about living at Neely street?

I'm pretty sure you intend this as a rhetorical question but I'll chime in anyway.

 

Oswald lied about living on Neely because he was going to lie about anything which connects him to the rifle.  The Neely Street backyard photos connect him to the rifle and he was aware of that, of course.

[Gerry Down]

25 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

I'm pretty sure you intend this as a rhetorical question but I'll chime in anyway.

 

Oswald lied about living on Neely because he was going to lie about anything which connects him to the rifle.  The Neely Street backyard photos connect him to the rifle and he was aware of that, of course.

Correct.

Though Oswald had above average intelligence, this lie was stupid beyond belief. 

[Bill Brown]

6 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Correct.

Though Oswald had above average intelligence, this lie was stupid beyond belief. 

Agreed.  He was desperate at that point so he'd tell any lie that he felt he had to in order to separate himself from the rifle, regardless of how foolish the lie.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Bill Brown

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Agreed.  He was desperate at that point so he'd tell any lie that he felt he had to in order to separate himself from the rifle, regardless of how foolish the lie.

 

 

I might buy this if the rifle was ordered to Neely St. I do think it’s possible the rifle was delivered there - as discussed in Gerry’s interesting thread on the topic - but if Oswald was that desperate to make up complete B.S. just to distance himself from the rifle why would he (allegedly) say in his final interrogation that nobody ever picked up mail from his P.O. Box other than himself and occasionally Marina? 

How many times did Oswald use the Neely St. address on official paperwork? I know of the TEC thing from April ‘63, but didn’t he give the address to JCS too?

Gerry is aware of this, but the WC had a contemporaneous FBI report stating that a Postal Inspector told James Hosty on 3/11/63 (literally one day before the rifle order) that the Oswalds had changed their address to Neely St. with the Dallas Post Office. That paperwork does not exist - and the alleged Inspector, Dorothea Myers, is not mentioned once in any records/reports, etc. of the Postal Inspection Service from after the assassination. Hosty testified to essentially the same thing - that he was informed by a contact in the Post Office that the Oswalds had moved to Neely St. in March ‘63. This was never investigated, despite the fact that Hosty’s alleged ignorance about P.O. Box 2915 until 6/27/63 is the only reason he (allegedly) failed to track Oswald to New Orleans. Hosty also supposedly “checked with the Postmaster” in mid-May and was told that the Oswalds had moved and left no forwarding address - which was false - but the two forwarding addresses the Oswalds left were from P.O. 2915, not 214 Neely St. It just seems a bit odd that an FBI agent in liaison with the Postal Inspection service couldn’t figure out that the two people he was investigating had rented a P.O. Box. This was figured out within hours of the assassination, and pre-assassination in New Orleans for box 30061, but there was allegedly a complete black-out to the Dallas FBI Field Office (the WFO knew about it from embassy intercepts but didn’t share the info) on box 2915 from before it was rented to over a month after it was closed. It all just seems a little too convenient IMO.

Also, as far as I know, the only example of any mail ever sent to Neely St. is a letter from Ruth Paine to Marina where she discusses plans to meet up the following Tuesday… which of all days happened to be March 12th. If I recall, Paine did this because Marina listed 214 Neely as the return address in her initial letters to Paine, which is also curious - since (as far as I know) Marina had only used the P.O. Box previously as a return address, other than the bizarre episode with Elsbeth St. in January I mentioned in another recent thread. 

As I’m sure you are aware, Oswald’s JCS timesheet says he was at work since ~8:00 a.m. that day; the rifle order was mailed a few hours later; and the money order stub (which according to Harry Holmes reflected an “early morning” purchase) disappeared and was never entered into evidence. 

I just think the evidence suggests that we’re missing some critical information about Neely St. that might help us explain why Oswald denied living there. Assuming he was just a moron and lied about a street address to distance himself from a rifle that was ordered to a P.O. Box seems like a bit of a stretch. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Gerry Down]

20 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I might buy this if the rifle was ordered to Neely St. I do think it’s possible the rifle was delivered there - as discussed in Gerry’s interesting thread on the topic - but if Oswald was that desperate to make up complete B.S. just to distance himself from the rifle why would he (allegedly) say in his final interrogation that nobody ever picked up mail from his P.O. Box other than himself and occasionally Marina? 

How many times did Oswald use the Neely St. address on official paperwork? I know of the TEC thing from April ‘63, but didn’t he give the address to JCS too?

Gerry is aware of this, but the WC had a contemporaneous FBI report stating that a Postal Inspector told James Hosty on 3/11/63 (literally one day before the rifle order) that the Oswalds had changed their address to Neely St. with the Dallas Post Office. That paperwork does not exist - and the alleged Inspector, Dorothea Myers, is not mentioned once in any records/reports, etc. of the Postal Inspection Service from after the assassination. Hosty testified to essentially the same thing - that he was informed by a contact in the Post Office that the Oswalds had moved to Neely St. in March ‘63. This was never investigated, despite the fact that Hosty’s alleged ignorance about P.O. Box 2915 until 6/27/63 is the only reason he (allegedly) failed to track Oswald to New Orleans. Hosty also supposedly “checked with the Postmaster” in mid-May and was told that the Oswalds had moved and left no forwarding address - which was false - but the two forwarding addresses the Oswalds left were from P.O. 2915, not 214 Neely St. It just seems a bit odd that an FBI agent in liaison with the Postal Inspection service couldn’t figure out that the two people he was investigating had rented a P.O. Box. This was figured out within hours of the assassination, and pre-assassination in New Orleans for box 30061, but there was allegedly a complete black-out to the Dallas FBI Field Office (the WFO knew about it from embassy intercepts but didn’t share the info) on box 2915 from before it was rented to over a month after it was closed. It all just seems a little too convenient IMO.

Also, as far as I know, the only example of any mail ever sent to Neely St. is a letter from Ruth Paine to Marina where she discusses plans to meet up the following Tuesday… which of all days happened to be March 12th. If I recall, Paine did this because Marina listed 214 Neely as the return address in her initial letters to Paine, which is also curious - since (as far as I know) Marina had only used the P.O. Box previously as a return address, other than the bizarre episode with Elsbeth St. in January I mentioned in another recent thread. 

As I’m sure you are aware, Oswald’s JCS timesheet says he was at work since ~8:00 a.m. that day; the rifle order was mailed a few hours later; and the money order stub (which according to Harry Holmes reflected an “early morning” purchase) disappeared and was never entered into evidence. 

I just think the evidence suggests that we’re missing some critical information about Neely St. that might help us explain why Oswald denied living there. Assuming he was just a moron and lied about a street address to distance himself from a rifle that was ordered to a P.O. Box seems like a bit of a stretch. 

I think the reason LHO thought he could get away with pretending he had not lived at Neely street was because in that timeframe LHO was constantly trying to hide his address from the FBI in order to get them to stop visiting him. So he was living at these addresses in a kind of covert way in his own mind, and might have thought now after the assassination he could continue hiding the fact he had lived there. I think he gave his address to JCS as his PO box or a false address - it's on his application for JCS. He had to give the TEC his real address in order to get unemployment benefits.

LHO felt secure in saying that only he and Marina received mail at the PO Box because LHOs strategy was to make it look like some unknown individual, Hidell, had piggy-backed off his PO Box 2915 and ordered a rifle through that box and collected it there, all without LHO or Marina ever knowing. LHO was trying to make it look like Hidell was trying to frame LHO as being the purchaser of the rifle. This is why LHO thought he could get away with pretending the rifle was not his.

[Tom Gram]

12 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I think the reason LHO thought he could get away with pretending he had not lived at Neely street was because in that timeframe LHO was constantly trying to hide his address from the FBI in order to get them to stop visiting him. So he was living at these addresses in a kind of covert way in his own mind, and might have thought now after the assassination he could continue hiding the fact he had lived there. I think he gave his address to JCS as his PO box or a false address - it's on his application for JCS. He had to give the TEC his real address in order to get unemployment benefits.

LHO felt secure in saying that only he and Marina received mail at the PO Box because LHOs strategy was to make it look like some unknown individual, Hidell, had piggy-backed off his PO Box 2915 and ordered a rifle through that box and collected it there, all without LHO or Marina ever knowing. LHO was trying to make it look like Hidell was trying to frame LHO as being the purchaser of the rifle. This is why LHO thought he could get away with pretending the rifle was not his.

I don’t know Gerry, that seems like a lot of assumptions about Oswald without much supporting evidence. Hosty had no problem at all finding out about Neely St. - it’s the P.O. Box that Oswald listed as his address on essentially everything that Hosty incredibly couldn’t find - and allegedly neither could the Postal Inspection Service. It strains credulity to the max. 

The complete lack of investigation into the Dorothea Myers incident, which could have provided rock solid evidence that Oswald actually lived at Neely, is bizarre and considering the context downright suspicious, IMO. 

Marina’s belligerently inconsistent testimony on the Hidell alias is another major variable. There’s just too much here - or missing that should be here - to shrug it all off and claim that we can read Oswald’s mind well enough to know why he said what he said. Remember, this is the guy who supposedly killed JFK to be a “big man” in history, and that was smart enough to fool the best interrogators in the region.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Lawrence Schnapf]

he lied  because he was trying to protect his cover or trying to protect others.     

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

he lied  because he was trying to protect his cover or trying to protect others.     

What cover? There is no hard evidence of Oswald associating with other potential conspirators in Dallas in the weeks prior to the assassination.