Evan Marshall Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 dup We need to remember that nothing effects cops worse than the death of another officer. I was on the job in Detroit 1969-1989 and the death of a cop placed at Oswalds feet in 1963 should have guaranteed Oswald DRT (Dead Right There) instead of arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) dup We need to remember that nothing effects cops worse than the death of another officer. I was on the job in Detroit 1969-1989 and the death of a cop placed at Oswalds feet in 1963 should have guaranteed Oswald DRT (Dead Right There) instead of arrested. If it can be positively demonstrated that Oswald - the primary suspect in the assassination, was not the Sixth Floor Sniper, then his being the primary suspect in the murder of Tippit also comes into question, enough of a question that those who are truly outraged by the murder of a cop, especially the victim's friends and family, should support a new grand jury investigation of the murder of Tippit. Because if it is true, that both murders are entwined, then the resolution of one should lead to the resolution of the other. BK Edited May 1, 2009 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McGuire Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 dup We need to remember that nothing effects cops worse than the death of another officer. I was on the job in Detroit 1969-1989 and the death of a cop placed at Oswalds feet in 1963 should have guaranteed Oswald DRT (Dead Right There) instead of arrested. It is odd that Oswald was not killed in the theatre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It's not easy for cops to kill a suspect in front of witnesses when the suspect is screaming, "I AM NOT RESISTING ARREST!" Not saying it's never happened; just saying it's much more difficult to do under those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry J.Dean Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It's not easy for cops to kill a suspect in front of witnesses when the suspect is screaming, "I AM NOT RESISTING ARREST!" Not saying it's never happened; just saying it's much more difficult to do under those circumstances. To be a cop killer Or a killer cop Is the question With no answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 dup We need to remember that nothing effects cops worse than the death of another officer. I was on the job in Detroit 1969-1989 and the death of a cop placed at Oswalds feet in 1963 should have guaranteed Oswald DRT (Dead Right There) instead of arrested. Hi Evan! I sent you a message over two weeks ago about the requirement for an avatar photo. The PM trackers says it was read on 20 April. So far, I haven't seen an acceptable avatar photo nor been advised that John S that you have an exemption. Other people have been placed under moderation for this, therefore any further posts by you will be made invisible until an avatar is provided or John advises us that an exemption has been granted. If you need any assistance in uploading an avatar, please contact one of the mods or admins and we'd be more than happy to help. If you feel there is a reason you should be exempted from the requirement, please contact John Simkin directly. Thanks! Evan Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Its been a long time...and if you wait too much longer - remember how much interest there would be to open the Lincoln murder now....none. [the generations who remember Dallas are slowly going the way of the dinosaurs....] You're quite right about that, Peter. A few years back, my son--who's now 29--asked why I was so fascinated with the JFK murder. I explained the details as I understand them as succinctly as I could, and asked him why his generation seemed to be disinterested in what was, essentially, the "crime of the [20th] century." He explained, to me, "What's the point? It's not so much that we don't care, as it is that this late in the game, what does it matter?" He continued explaining that the guilty party/parties were likely dead in the 40+ years that had passed, and that the prosecution of senior citizens would seem vindictive rather than corrective...and, to his generation, that would be a tough sell. I don't agree, but I see his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Its been a long time...and if you wait too much longer - remember how much interest there would be to open the Lincoln murder now....none. [the generations who remember Dallas are slowly going the way of the dinosaurs....] You're quite right about that, Peter. A few years back, my son--who's now 29--asked why I was so fascinated with the JFK murder. I explained the details as I understand them as succinctly as I could, and asked him why his generation seemed to be disinterested in what was, essentially, the "crime of the [20th] century." He explained, to me, "What's the point? It's not so much that we don't care, as it is that this late in the game, what does it matter?" He continued explaining that the guilty party/parties were likely dead in the 40+ years that had passed, and that the prosecution of senior citizens would seem vindictive rather than corrective...and, to his generation, that would be a tough sell. I don't agree, but I see his point. Hey Mark, There's elements in every generation who take up the quest for truth and justice for JFK, and if there is such a movement, I don't think it is motivated by a vindictive lust for revenge, but the need to determine and understand the truth. It's not up to your son to require the truth be told or to enforce justice. Justice will take care of itself once the truth is out. There are senior citizens arrested all the time - nazi concentration camp guards, pedophiles, murderers, and those responsible for crimes related to the assassination shouldn't be exempt from having to answer questions under oath. While others may be busy doing something else, as someone once said to me, there's nothing more important we can be doing than trying to answer the outstanding questions about the assassination of President Kennedy. James Douglas thinks that taking up the quest is not only a personal journey but one that can change society. "...I have come to see it as a transforming story," Douglas writes, "one that can help move our own collective story in the twenty first century from a spiral of violence to a way of peace. My methodology is from Gandhi. This is an experiment in truth. Its particular truth is a journey into darkness. If we go as far as we can into the darkness, regardless of the consequences, I believe a midnight truth will free us from our bondage to violence and bring us to the light of peace." The Midnight Truth. A real tough sell. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) To compare the waning interest in the assassination of Lincoln because of the passage of time, with a prediction of a similar time effect related to interest in solving the assassination of JFK, is, IMO, shortsighted. Working against mass interest is lack of curiousity in general, along with time erosion, but both are offset, to a degree as never before, by the amazing and relatively recent access to the now "built out" information resource of the broadband internet. Sure, the potential for communication and sharing of information that the internet offers is being trivialized by "caps" like those on message length by the twitter format, and especially the young seem to be engrossed in "texting" meaningless nothings to each other to pass the time, and it is true that curiosity is a rare attribute, but opportunity to acquire and to share information continues to grow, as never before in history. I've always been a curious generalist, an unbeatable player of the Trivial Pursuit parlor room game fad era. Being a generalist who read newspapers and magazines voraciously, I did not spend much time in library research stacks. I was a ten years old, sixth grader on the day in November, 1963 that our school principle made the announcement over the school's p.a. system, that "the president has been shot." I never accepted the WCR version of events, but I assumed, wrongly, that there would be nothing new to learn, this many years later, from internet research into JFK/Dallas. I finally got "interested" in researching the assassination of JFK, less than a year ago, because of this: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pag...d=1222017601983Oct 23, 2008 8:21 | Updated Nov 4, 2008 23:21 Mr. Obama's neighborhood ....The story, as long-time acquaintance and major Jewish philanthropist Lester Crown tells it, goes something like this: After graduating from Columbia University and working in Chicago as a community organizer in his early 20s, Obama left this Midwest metropolis to attend Harvard Law School. .... ....Obama's experience at the Sidley Austin firm, where he soon got to know Minow, a former Federal Communications Commission chairman (as well as his future wife, Michelle Robinson), was crucial in introducing Obama to leading local Jewish figures like the billionaire Crown. Crown first became acquainted with the young associate after Minow suggested he meet this "special" guy who "is going places." And indeed, Crown describes him as "brilliant" and "a quick study," though he does not pretend to have pictured Obama sitting in the Oval Office during their early encounters. These kinds of introductions proved key for Obama's construction of a network which would eventually support his political aspirations. The Crown family, for instance, have been major financial backers, with Lester's son James serving as Obama's Illinois finance chairman. ..... I wondered who Lester Crown was....I had never heard of him, and then I found this: http://www2.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi...=009&sc=442ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices JONATHAN MARSHALL Monday, November 18, 1996 ....Only fringe conspiracy theorists would conclude from these facts that General Dynamics, Brown and Root or the ``military-industrial complex'' more generally, had Kennedy killed. They may have preferred Lyndon Johnson, but there's no evidence they wanted Kennedy dead. But the facts speak tellingly about how accidents of history can affect great fortunes. A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy. ... ....and this: Junius Myer Schine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThey also has a daughter, Renee Helene Schine Crown. Renee married Lester Crown, son of Col. Henry Crown of Evanston, Ill., and the late Mrs. Rebecca Kranz ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junius_Myer_Schine http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&...nge=1963%2C1996FOR GIBE AT SCHINE; Assails Jackson in Exchange With Kennedy, Whom... - New York Times - Jun 12, 1954 1Vfr. Kennedy told reporters that Mr. Cohn had threatened to bring out evidence ... used improper means to seek special treatment for Pvt. G. David Schine, ... [PDF]EXECUTIVE SESSIONS OF THE SENATE PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML G. David Schine, whose army service caused so much commotion, ... assassinated in Los Angeles' Ambassador Hotel, by coincidence one of the Schine family's ... http://www.loyola.edu/dept/politics/intel/.../hearing-v5.pdf http://news.google.com/archivesearch?hl=en...ld&ie=UTF-8"July 18, 1949, Traverse City, Michigan Subscription - Record-Eagle - NewspaperArchie - Jul 18, 1949 ... flaming sword is something new on the fabulous Pump Room menu in Chicago as demonstrated by Patrick Hoy executive assistant to Ernest Byfield president ..." HOY SLATED TO BE NEW PRESIDENT OF MATERIAL SERVICE Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Mar 31, 1960 Patrick H. Hoy, who has re- signed as president of the Sherman and the two ... into the hotel business from industry by the late Ernest Byfield in 1946. ... http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Byf...=1&ie=UTF-8 Mrs. Gladys R. Byfield Engaged. - New York Times - Dec 1, 1929 Gladys R. >Byfield, former wife of Ernest Byfield, president.of the Hotel Sherman, to Raymond Tartiere Lnndon and Paris The announcement was made by Mr,~ .. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&q=...sa=N&tab=wp America's Queen: The Life of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis - Page 203 by Sarah Bradford - Biography & Autobiography - 2000 - 640 pages "Bill Walton came up with Glen Ora, the property of his friend Gladys Tartiere, ... her photographs of the place; she liked it and rented it sight unseen. ..." ....and now, I am hooked! Determining relevancy from coincidence seems to be one of the biggest challenges: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=mcn...ed=us&hl=enEx-Pentagon chief McNamara reweds Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Sep 17, 2004 Byfield, 70, was married to Ernest Byfield, a former officer in the Office of Strategic Services, forerunner of the CIA. She and McNamara were introduced ... Maybe Len Colby is the fortunate one, with his knack for explaining it ALL as just perfectly ordinary strings of coincidences. Edited May 11, 2009 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Its been a long time...and if you wait too much longer - remember how much interest there would be to open the Lincoln murder now....none. [the generations who remember Dallas are slowly going the way of the dinosaurs....] You're quite right about that, Peter. A few years back, my son--who's now 29--asked why I was so fascinated with the JFK murder. I explained the details as I understand them as succinctly as I could, and asked him why his generation seemed to be disinterested in what was, essentially, the "crime of the [20th] century." He explained, to me, "What's the point? It's not so much that we don't care, as it is that this late in the game, what does it matter?" He continued explaining that the guilty party/parties were likely dead in the 40+ years that had passed, and that the prosecution of senior citizens would seem vindictive rather than corrective...and, to his generation, that would be a tough sell. I don't agree, but I see his point. Hey Mark, There's elements in every generation who take up the quest for truth and justice for JFK, and if there is such a movement, I don't think it is motivated by a vindictive lust for revenge, but the need to determine and understand the truth. It's not up to your son to require the truth be told or to enforce justice. Justice will take care of itself once the truth is out. There are senior citizens arrested all the time - nazi concentration camp guards, pedophiles, murderers, and those responsible for crimes related to the assassination shouldn't be exempt from having to answer questions under oath. While others may be busy doing something else, as someone once said to me, there's nothing more important we can be doing than trying to answer the outstanding questions about the assassination of President Kennedy. James Douglas thinks that taking up the quest is not only a personal journey but one that can change society. "...I have come to see it as a transforming story," Douglas writes, "one that can help move our own collective story in the twenty first century from a spiral of violence to a way of peace. My methodology is from Gandhi. This is an experiment in truth. Its particular truth is a journey into darkness. If we go as far as we can into the darkness, regardless of the consequences, I believe a midnight truth will free us from our bondage to violence and bring us to the light of peace." The Midnight Truth. A real tough sell. BK There are always SOME who are interesting in TRUTH and JUSTICE, no matter when it happened, but how many people could one motivate to get out in the streets over the crimes of Ghengis Khan? Lincoln being killed by a US Army/North and South Conspiracy? One still can get some interested in JFK and more so in Sept 11, but sadly - all too sadly - most have expiration dates after which most, but a few students of history and morality, care........The generation who really, REALLY care about JFK are now in their late 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and dead.....time is running out on that subject. I don't like the fact - I acknowledge it and ask all involved to redouble their efforts. Those who are involved in the cover-up also know this and feel they have only a few more years - after which they can relax this mockingbird /disinfo campaign....and move on to others.... Here's an example of what I'm talking about...to those who weren't of his generation, this might reek of vindictiveness, since the accused is 89 years old and already in poor health: Demjanjuk taken to federal officials by ambulance By M.R. KROPKO, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 4 mins ago CLEVELAND, Ohio – Suspected Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk was taken from his home by ambulance Monday and driven to a U.S. immigration office as agents prepared to deport him to Germany. Flanked by a motorcade of several unmarked vehicles, the ambulance was waved down a ramp that leads to the basement of Cleveland's downtown federal building. Security guards swung the gate closed at the bottom of the ramp as soon as the motorcade entered. The 89-year-old Demjanjuk is wanted on a Munich arrest warrant that accuses him of 29,000 counts of accessory to murder as a guard at the Sobibor death camp in Nazi-occupied Poland. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Khaalid Walls said he did not immediately have any information on Demjanjuk's status. Demjanjuk's son and an attorney who represents Demjanjuk in the U.S. didn't immediately return messages left by The Associated Press after the ambulance arrived. Demjanjuk (pronounced dem-YAHN'-yuk) denies Germany's accusations. He says he was held by the Germans as a Soviet prisoner of war and was never a camp guard. Demjanjuk's family also says he shouldn't be deported, because he is in poor health and might not survive the trans-Atlantic journey. A German Justice Ministry spokesman, Ulrich Staudigl, said the retired autoworker was expected to be in Germany by Tuesday. Earlier Monday, his son, John Demjanjuk Jr., said an appeal in a U.S. court would go ahead even if his father isn't in the country. "Given the history of this case and not a shred of evidence that he ever hurt one person let alone murdered anyone anywhere, this is inhuman even if the courts have said it is lawful," Demjanjuk Jr. said. Demjanjuk was visited Monday morning by a daughter and two priests at his home in Seven Hills, a Cleveland suburb. After the ambulance arrived and pulled into the driveway, family members stood at the edge of the garage and held up a bedsheet to block the view of reporters and photographers across the street. U.S. immigration officials went to Demjanjuk's home Friday to serve a government notice asking that he surrender. The move came one day after the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear Demjanjuk's appeal to stop his deportation. On Monday, a Berlin court rejected an appeal aimed at preventing deportation. Once in Germany, Demjanjuk will be brought before a judge and formally charged. He will also be given the opportunity to make a statement to the court, in keeping with normal justice procedure, Staudigl said. Demjanjuk is expected to be held in the medical unit of a Munich prison. The government has said preparations have been made at the facility to ensure he will receive appropriate care. ___ Associated Press writers Melissa Eddy in Berlin and Thomas J. Sheeran in Cleveland contributed to this report. Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Lane Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Here's an example of what I'm talking about...to those who weren't of his generation, this might reek of vindictiveness, since the accused is 89 years old and already in poor health .... I think the Birmingham church bombing case of September 1963 might be instructive in this, inasmuch as it wasn't until the '80s or '90s when the last of the suspects was finally convicted and sentenced, at least one having died in prison. They, too, were of advanced age and in poor health: so what? Those they killed were young and in great health: the perps' infirmity does not mitigate Justice, and if anything, the vics' youth demands it. The disinterest of a later generation does not absolve them. That speaks to Birmingham as well as Demjanjuk and whoever killed the 46-year-old President and a 39-year-old cop. My two cents worth .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Duke, I was simply using the Demjanjuk case to illustrate my son's point...while I don't agree with him, I can understand where he's coming from. I'm afraid that my son's response is similar to what one might expect from the current crop of prosecutors out there, that pragmaticism might overrule justice in a case such as JFK's...not to mention that the government never likes to admit that it was wrong. But I believe that if we can identify JFK's killer and prosecute him and any conspirators, justice might still be served. [sorry, Tom Purvis, but I'm not convinced that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the fatal shots were fired; for him to have been a patsy, it would merely have to be POSSIBLE that he could have done the deed...and he certainly was capable.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Duke, I was simply using the Demjanjuk case to illustrate my son's point...while I don't agree with him, I can understand where he's coming from. I'm afraid that my son's response is similar to what one might expect from the current crop of prosecutors out there, that pragmaticism might overrule justice in a case such as JFK's...not to mention that the government never likes to admit that it was wrong. But I believe that if we can identify JFK's killer and prosecute him and any conspirators, justice might still be served. [sorry, Tom Purvis, but I'm not convinced that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the fatal shots were fired; for him to have been a patsy, it would merely have to be POSSIBLE that he could have done the deed...and he certainly was capable.] The Demjanjuk case reminds me of the ODESSA File, which is in the same category as Seven Days in May and Three Days of the Condor, all good novels with deep meanings made into film. In the ODESSA File, a German reporter hears on the radio the announcement that President Kennedy has been assassinated. He then chases an ambulance, sensing a possible story, and at the scene a police detective he knows says that it is only a suicide of an old man, and gives him a manuscript the old Jew had written. It is an account of his concentration camp days, the crimes of the camp kommandant, and ends with the fact that the old Jew saw the camp kommandant get out of a limo recently, which sparked his suicide. The manuscript also details the kommandant's murder of another German officer, and other crimes, which leads the reporter to the ODESSA File, kept by a photographer and forger who made the passports and papers for Nazi Gestapo officers to new identies. While the chase is interesting, when the reporter finally catches up to the kommandant, the surprise ending is that he was motivated, not by social justice or the old Jew, but by the fact that it was his father who the good German officer the kommandant had murdered. We now see a lot of the sons and daughters of witnesses and suspects coming forward, not only to correct the on line record, but to learn more about what really happened. And maybe Oswald's kids, and Tippit's kids, and the children of JMWAVE subjects will push for a real resolution to the murders of not only JFK, but Tippit and Oswald. And it will be the inquisitive nature of that generation, rather than their disinterest, that will push this matter into the halls of Congress and the courts. Bill Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Duke, I was simply using the Demjanjuk case to illustrate my son's point...while I don't agree with him, I can understand where he's coming from. I'm afraid that my son's response is similar to what one might expect from the current crop of prosecutors out there, that pragmaticism might overrule justice in a case such as JFK's...not to mention that the government never likes to admit that it was wrong. But I believe that if we can identify JFK's killer and prosecute him and any conspirators, justice might still be served. [sorry, Tom Purvis, but I'm not convinced that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the fatal shots were fired; for him to have been a patsy, it would merely have to be POSSIBLE that he could have done the deed...and he certainly was capable.] [sorry, Tom Purvis, but I'm not convinced that Oswald was on the 6th floor of the TSBD when the fatal shots were fired; for him to have been a patsy, it would merely have to be POSSIBLE that he could have done the deed...and he certainly was capable.] Well, since I was in Athens, Ohio at the time, rest assured that I do not "know" if he was or if he was not. Just that as of yet, I have found absollutely no other viable suspect, and ALL ROADS lead directly back to LHO. And, many of these roads were not meant to be found! Nevertheless, even with this, I have to stick with what was stated in my original 1994 draft manuscript which dealt only with the first shot/CE399. If you will recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 For any who are new here or may have missed the "inside cover" in it's entire content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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