RFK Jr. Talks about "Growing up Kennedy"

[Kirk Gallaway]

I came upon this clip a few months ago of RFK Jr. talking about "Growing up Kennedy" on what looks to be a morning show. And it's rather timely now that he's is  running for President.

I've always felt his father, RFK had a much greater  opportunity to be a great  President than JFK. RFK Jr. comes off a little  stiff but I found this program very interesting and insightful

into what it was like to be brought up as a Kennedy in the 60's, and would recommend it to anyone here!

 

But this might be a bit controversial,  Around the 25 minute mark RFK Jr. recollects a story about his father regarding his actions on Oct.29th 1960, when Marin Luther King was thrown in jail in Mississippi. This was an October Surprise, only a week before the Presidential election between JFK and Nixon..

RFK Jr. said that his father Bobby phoned up the sheriff who was holding MLK and forcefully told him that he better release King now because, if he doesn't,  once his brother gets elected in the following week, he'll make life hell for him in so many words.

This however does not square with the news accounts of that period, which said RFK was not behind any activity to release King, but  was livid when the news got out that his brother had phoned Coretta King to assure her he was dong all he could to secure King's release and from the NYT, Bobby said to his aides.

 

Bobby had made the political calculations and didn’t like what it all added up to. “Do you know,” he fumed, “that three Southern governors told us that if Jack supported Jimmy Hoffa, Nikita Khrushchev, or Martin Luther King, they would throw their states to Nixon? Do you know that this election may be razor close and you have probably lost it for us?”

 

 

Keep in mind, JFK hasn't been elected. Bobby was not Attorney General. Bobby was JFK's campaign manager, and this seems like a likely reaction from a campaign manager.

All the records I've seen say Bobby had nothing to do with the release of MLK from jail. JFK had been working behind the scenes with the Mississippi Governor and  it was JFK's brother in law Sargent Shriver  and Civil Rights Attorney Jim Wofford who convinced JFK to phone Coretta King and bring JFK's sympathies  out in the open. Bobby later got more involved in the civil rights movement for JFK as AG.

The phone call to Coretta King turned out to be critical campaign move as MLK's father found out and endorsed JFK swinging a great many blacks to vote for JFK and ensure him the election.

I'm not sure how RFK JR. could have made such a mistake in his accounting of the story but all major accounts including from the NYT and WAPO, and in recent years, the Daily Coz ( some here would say all CIA publications!) say Bobby had no real role in the release of MLK and was dead set against JFK's call to Coretta King which turned out to be an election  game changer! To be fair, RFK JR. was himself was almost 7. But obviously this is quite a 180 degree spin RFK Jr. has somehow put on this story. You'd think some aides or members of his family might have fact checked him on this.

Curious as to any dispute of facts.

 

[Paul Brancato]

American Values by RFK jr recounts this story. It’s an eye opening book, especially in regards to Joe Kennedy. Kirk, I choose to believe RFK’s son over the msm. You end your post saying he made a mistake. What historical records prove your point? Which aide or aides do you quote midway through your post? What contemporary newspaper accounts are you referring to? 
Do you suppose Junior just made it up? 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Contemporary to that time. As for the NYT quote. Of course there are political stories of this nature written up all the time. Sometimes rather immediately and some times the info gets out a year later..  I don't assume back in the early 60's that the New York Times and Wapo has any reason to make the story up.  They're all trying to get the inside scoop and they generally get along well with the Kennedy's.

They honored a code of not delving onto JFK's private life as well as other politicians. It was nothing like it is today Paul.

I'm not an expert on this, but I would say I expect the NYT article to be accurate, because it makes good sense. Bobby had no power. He acted as the campaign manager who was trying to win a campaign. I'm not sure what you're saying Paul, so you think the whole story involving JFK's brother in law Sargent Shriver and Wofford weren't  involved at all, and didn't advise JFK to the  phone Coretta King, and this was  made up whole cloth?, but it was Bobby who told JFK to phone King? Well first there is a record that Coretta King was phoned.

It's not impossible both things could have happened. Bobby didn't want the phone call to be made and  made a last ditch effort and coerced the Sheriff to let King out.I hadn't heard that.  Is  there any other corroboration of the fact? and where? That's something maybe Jim Di can get a source.

Paul: Do you suppose Junior just made it up? 

As I said, I have no idea Paul, he was only 7 years old, how would that incident be planted in his mind if it never happened?  I don't know.

.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I may stand corrected on that Paul. I read it was JFK negotiating with whoever the Governor was that freed MLK. But I did find this quote through KIng Institute Stanford.

"Following a call to Atlanta judge J. Oscar Mitchell by Robert F. Kennedy, brother and campaign manager to John F. Kennedy, King is freed on $2,000 bond. King flies back to Atlanta and addresses a mass rally at Ebenezer."

https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/mlk-topic/martin-luther-king-jr-arrests

[Ron Bulman]

This is covered in Monica Wiesak's America's Last President, Chapter 8, Civil Rights.

Bobby was not pleased with JFK's call to Coretta.  He did tell him "You've lost the election . . .".  "He then ordered the campaign staff not to speak to anyone on the issue to so that the press coverage would stay at an absolute minimum."  He then broke his own rule and called the judge himself.  Aide John Seigenthaler, surprised, asked, "What did you say to him?  Why did you call him?"  Bobby responded:

"I said if he was a decent American, he would let King out of jail by sundown.  I called him because it made me so damned angry to think of that bastard sentencing a citizen to four months of hard labor for a minor traffic offense and screwing up my brother's campaign and making our country look ridiculous before the world."

The judge released King from prison after Bobby's call.

Despite Robert Kennedy's demand that these communications remain private, Sargent Shriver and Harris Wofford, keeping Kennedy out of the loop to avoid a veto, distributed approximately two million pamphlets at black churches, avoiding the white press.  The pamphlets detailed an endorsement Martin Luther King's father had given Kennedy. . . . (MLK had committed to not endorsing any candidate)  This turn of events helped swing the African American vote in Kennedy's favor, which likely is ultimately what gave Kennedy the election.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I may stand corrected on that Paul. I read it was JFK negotiating with whoever the Governor was that freed MLK. But I did find this quote through KIng Institute Stanford.

"Following a call to Atlanta judge J. Oscar Mitchell by Robert F. Kennedy, brother and campaign manager to John F. Kennedy, King is freed on $2,000 bond. King flies back to Atlanta and addresses a mass rally at Ebenezer."

https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/mlk-topic/martin-luther-king-jr-arrests

Thanks Kirk for not giving up on this and digging further.

and thanks Ron for quoting Wiesak’s book.

[Ron Bulman]

10 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I came upon this clip a few months ago of RFK Jr. talking about "Growing up Kennedy" on what looks to be a morning show. And it's rather timely now that he's is  running for President.

I've always felt his father, RFK had a much greater  opportunity to be a great  President than JFK. RFK Jr. comes off a little  stiff but I found this program very interesting and insightful

into what it was like to be brought up as a Kennedy in the 60's, and would recommend it to anyone here!

 

But this might be a bit controversial,  Around the 25 minute mark RFK Jr. recollects a story about his father regarding his actions on Oct.29th 1960, when Marin Luther King was thrown in jail in Mississippi. This was an October Surprise, only a week before the Presidential election between JFK and Nixon..

RFK Jr. said that his father Bobby phoned up the sheriff who was holding MLK and forcefully told him that he better release King now because, if he doesn't,  once his brother gets elected in the following week, he'll make life hell for him in so many words.

This however does not square with the news accounts of that period, which said RFK was not behind any activity to release King, but  was livid when the news got out that his brother had phoned Coretta King to assure her he was dong all he could to secure King's release and from the NYT, Bobby said to his aides.

 

Bobby had made the political calculations and didn’t like what it all added up to. “Do you know,” he fumed, “that three Southern governors told us that if Jack supported Jimmy Hoffa, Nikita Khrushchev, or Martin Luther King, they would throw their states to Nixon? Do you know that this election may be razor close and you have probably lost it for us?”

 

 

Keep in mind, JFK hasn't been elected. Bobby was not Attorney General. Bobby was JFK's campaign manager, and this seems like a likely reaction from a campaign manager.

All the records I've seen say Bobby had nothing to do with the release of MLK from jail. JFK had been working behind the scenes with the Mississippi Governor and  it was JFK's brother in law Sargent Shriver  and Civil Rights Attorney Jim Wofford who convinced JFK to phone Coretta King and bring JFK's sympathies  out in the open. Bobby later got more involved in the civil rights movement for JFK as AG.

The phone call to Coretta King turned out to be critical campaign move as MLK's father found out and endorsed JFK swinging a great many blacks to vote for JFK and ensure him the election.

I'm not sure how RFK JR. could have made such a mistake in his accounting of the story but all major accounts including from the NYT and WAPO, and in recent years, the Daily Coz ( some here would say all CIA publications!) say Bobby had no real role in the release of MLK and was dead set against JFK's call to Coretta King which turned out to be an election  game changer! To be fair, RFK JR. was himself was almost 7. But obviously this is quite a 180 degree spin RFK Jr. has somehow put on this story. You'd think some aides or members of his family might have fact checked him on this.

Curious as to any dispute of facts.

 

Thanks for posting this video Kirk.  It brings out more than one aspect of why I think he might be qualified to be President.

First, I'd like to note he spoke the better part of 20 minutes or more.  I never had any problem understanding, it wasn't halting or disjointed.  I don't think he would have any problem expressing himself in a speech or debate.

Second, he has never been a politician, he's not a republican, nor a corporate democrat.  But growing up a Kennedy, at that time he was exposed to it all during his formative years.  He speaks of not going to kindergarten but his mother taking them to hearings, his mother taking them to hearings where his father grilled mobsters, hearing Sam Giancana take the 5th 137 (?) times.  Going to the Whitehouse many times, exposed to multiple politicians there and at Hickory Hill and Hyannis Port where politicians and politics were discussed regularly.  His father was attorney general and a senator.  His uncle Ted was a senator most of his life.  He understands the system but is not beholden to it.

[Michael Griffith]

On 4/9/2023 at 11:07 AM, Kirk Gallaway said:

I came upon this clip a few months ago of RFK Jr. talking about "Growing up Kennedy" on what looks to be a morning show. And it's rather timely now that he's is  running for President.

I've always felt his father, RFK had a much greater  opportunity to be a great  President than JFK. RFK Jr. comes off a little  stiff but I found this program very interesting and insightful

into what it was like to be brought up as a Kennedy in the 60's, and would recommend it to anyone here!

 

But this might be a bit controversial,  Around the 25 minute mark RFK Jr. recollects a story about his father regarding his actions on Oct.29th 1960, when Marin Luther King was thrown in jail in Mississippi. This was an October Surprise, only a week before the Presidential election between JFK and Nixon..

RFK Jr. said that his father Bobby phoned up the sheriff who was holding MLK and forcefully told him that he better release King now because, if he doesn't,  once his brother gets elected in the following week, he'll make life hell for him in so many words.

This however does not square with the news accounts of that period, which said RFK was not behind any activity to release King, but  was livid when the news got out that his brother had phoned Coretta King to assure her he was dong all he could to secure King's release and from the NYT, Bobby said to his aides.

 

Bobby had made the political calculations and didn’t like what it all added up to. “Do you know,” he fumed, “that three Southern governors told us that if Jack supported Jimmy Hoffa, Nikita Khrushchev, or Martin Luther King, they would throw their states to Nixon? Do you know that this election may be razor close and you have probably lost it for us?”

 

Keep in mind, JFK hasn't been elected. Bobby was not Attorney General. Bobby was JFK's campaign manager, and this seems like a likely reaction from a campaign manager.

All the records I've seen say Bobby had nothing to do with the release of MLK from jail. JFK had been working behind the scenes with the Mississippi Governor and  it was JFK's brother in law Sargent Shriver  and Civil Rights Attorney Jim Wofford who convinced JFK to phone Coretta King and bring JFK's sympathies  out in the open. Bobby later got more involved in the civil rights movement for JFK as AG.

The phone call to Coretta King turned out to be critical campaign move as MLK's father found out and endorsed JFK swinging a great many blacks to vote for JFK and ensure him the election.

I'm not sure how RFK JR. could have made such a mistake in his accounting of the story but all major accounts including from the NYT and WAPO, and in recent years, the Daily Coz ( some here would say all CIA publications!) say Bobby had no real role in the release of MLK and was dead set against JFK's call to Coretta King which turned out to be an election  game changer! To be fair, RFK JR. was himself was almost 7. But obviously this is quite a 180 degree spin RFK Jr. has somehow put on this story. You'd think some aides or members of his family might have fact checked him on this.

Curious as to any dispute of facts.

 

 

Black radicals such as Julian Bond have been harshly critical of JFK for supposedly not doing enough for civil rights. This is draconian, misguided, and unfair criticism. Given the politics and conditions during his presidency, JFK showed great courage in speaking and acting in favor of civil rights. He said and did more than Nixon would have done. 

If JFK had lived to run in 1964, his pro-civil rights statements and actions would have cost him dearly in the southern states. Even in LBJ's 1964 landslide win, Goldwater, one of the worst candidates in our history, won MS, AL, LA, GA, and SC. If JFK had not been shot and had run 1964, and if the GOP had nominated a better candidate, such as Nixon or Rockefeller, JFK's support of civil rights might well have cost him the election, even though his support would be considered mediocre and even timid by today's standards.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Kirk Gallaway]

That's right Michael.  Kennedy won every state you mentioned in 1960 except for Alabama and Mississippi where they split the votes,  but segregationist Harry Byrd won the majority of Electoral votes over Kennedy..

in 1964, Kennedy would have lost the south, including S. Carolina but would have held on to everything else he had in 1960 except Goldwater's Arizona, but he would have gained California, (Nixon's home state in 1960), and the West Coast, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida.

[Michael Griffith]

37 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

That's right Michael.  Kennedy won every state you mentioned in 1960 except for Alabama and Mississippi where they split the votes,  but segregationist Harry Byrd won the majority of Electoral votes over Kennedy..

in 1964, Kennedy would have lost the south, including S. Carolina but would have held on to everything else he had in 1960 except Goldwater's Arizona, but he would have gained California, (Nixon's home state in 1960), and the West Coast, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida.

If Goldwater had been JFK's opponent in 1964, I would tend to agree with you. But if JFK had had to go up against Nixon or Rockefeller in '64, I think he might well have lost, especially against Nixon.