The Autopsy Doctors' Rear Head Entry Site vs. the Autopsy Photos of the Brain

[Michael Griffith]

53 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

I'd imagine Finck and Loquvam were misled by the idea of an assassin firing down from a 6th floor window and striking the eop and assumed the angle the bullet travelled after passing through the eop was downwards which of course would have carried it right into the cerebellum. But the bullet didn't travel downwards from the eop but upwards due to jfk leaning forward so much at z313. 

That 3rd link you provided shows the cerebellum in red which is more or less where my cross section of a real human skull has the cerebellum. The line of the bullet goes from the eop to the top of the eyebrow ridge. You'll remember Humes talking about an x-ray we no longer have which showed a fragment trail from the eop to the eyebrow ridge. This is the line of the bullet. This line would just graze along the top of the cerebellum which would match the brain photos because the photos apparently show ever so slight damage to the cerebellum. Either this damage is from direct contact from the bullet as it grazed along the top of the cerebellum or damage from the small temporary cavitation that would have been created directly over the cerebellum with the much larger cavitation occuring in the middle of the head after the bullet had already passed the cerebellum.

The cerebellum in the third link is larger than the one in your graphic, and I don't see how a bullet entering 2.5 cm to the right and slightly above the EOP could have missed the cerebellum, given the position of the cerebellum in that image and in the two other linked images. I am baffled as to what you are seeing in these images that would lead you to believe otherwise.

I think it is a reach to dismiss Loquvam's and Finck's statements about the EOP site and the cerebellum. 

Another point is that it is by no means established or certain that Z313 is the rear head shot, since that shot obviously came from the front. It was a frangible bullet that exploded on impact to the right temple and blew out a hole in the right-rear part of the skull. That's why brain matter was blown backward and splattered all over the trunk, on the follow-up car, and on the windshields and uniforms of two of the trailing patrolmen. 

I don't understand how you can take the brain photos seriously given just what we know about the large amount of brain matter that was blown from the head. And how can any thinking person buy the fantasy that JFK's brain weighed 1,500 grams at the autopsy? 

So you see ever-so-slight damage to the cerebellum? Dr. Loquvam did not even see any evidence of premortem hemorrhaging in the cerebellum in the area at and near the EOP site, and he was looking at enhanced color photos of the brain. What's more, the entire FPP noted that there's no damage to the cerebellum where there should be damage if the bullet had entered at the EOP site: 

          The panel notes that the posterior-inferior portion of the cerebellum virtually intact. It certainly does not demonstrate the degree of laceration, fragmentation, or contusion (as appears subsequently on the superior aspect of the brain) that would be expected in this location if the bullet wound of entrance were as described in the autopsy report. There is no damage in the area of the brain corresponding to the piece of brain tissue on the hair which the autopsy pathologists told the panel was the entrance wound. (7 HSCA 129)

Yet, even Dr. Sturdivan now agrees that the EOP site is correct, and that the autopsy photos support the EOP site. Moreover, all three ARRB forensic experts agreed that the skull x-rays show no entry site in the cowlick area. Dr. Joseph Riley, a neuroanatomist, notes that the autopsy photos show intact cerebral cortex at the location of the alleged cowlick entry wound:

          There is no entrance wound where the HSCA locates it. The autopsy photographs show intact cerebral cortex at the point that the HSCA claims is an entrance wound. This is confirmed by correct interpretation of the X-rays. (LINK)

Riley also notes that there is no connection between the high fragment trail and the cavitation wound, which is well below that trail, and that the cavitation wound is consistent with the EOP entry site:

          The pattern of brain damage is inconsistent with a single bullet. The cavitation wound (a "cylinder of disruption" caused by the passage of a bullet) is linear. There is no evidence of continuity between the cavitation wound and the fragments in the right dorsolateral (upper right hand side) cortex. To use a crude analogy, if we cut an apple in half along the core and remove the core from one side of the apple, the part of the core that was removed resembles the location and size of the cavitation wound. In the HSCA trajectory, the bullet path is restricted to the outer (cortical) surface, almost tangent to the brain. Yet there is a cavitation wound along the length of the brain, deep and parallel to the cortical surface. . . .

          The cavitation wound corresponds exactly to a trajectory predicted from the observations of the autopsy prosectors. . . .

          There are clear signs of an entrance wound where it was described by the prosectors. (LINK)

And I take it that you dismiss as "mistaken" the reports from a number of Parkland doctors, two of whom were neurosurgeons, that a large rear wound exposed damaged and bleeding cerebellar tissue?

I also take it that you reject as "mistaken" the dozens of accounts of a large right-rear head wound given by other Parkland doctors, Parkland nurses (one of whom packed the wound with gauze), FBI agents, Secret Service agents, a funeral worker at Parkland, the mortician at the autopsy who reassembled the skull, and numerous medical personnel at the autopsy? It's just an amazing, cosmic coincidence that these dozens of people, in three different locations, all reported seeing a large right-rear head wound? None of them could tell the difference between a wound above the right ear and a wound that was several inches farther back and that included a sizable part of the occiput? 

[Tom Gram]

12 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Still though, it's not a like for like comparison. Entrance wound is in the forehead, not eop. Dead bone is dehydrated whereas living bone is more malable. 1890s ammunition can't be compared to 1960s ammunition.

Why is the entrance wound so big - 18 by 12? For a 6.5mm carcano round? I presume the dehydrated bone caused a bigger than normal entrance wound as dried out bone would be more likely to shatter. I wonder if that is cratering after all on the outside of the entrance wound, that the dehydrated bone caused some type of shattering effect that left a bevel at the entrance point.

After looking at recent wound ballistics literature a bit, I think the basic scenario you’ve been describing in this thread may be possible under a very narrow set of circumstances. Pat is correct that a MC bullet will not explode a skull and create wounds like JFK’s from the temporary cavity alone, but exit wound size is highly dependent on the location of the exit plane relative to the temporary cavity. IF the exit plane occurred within the temp cavity as opposed to behind or in front of it, that could potentially account for the large exit, and the lacerated scalp. 

This wasn’t considered by any of the investigations or experts because despite it being an intuitive and seemingly obvious concept, the relationship between temp cavity location and exit wound size was apparently not directly studied, by anyone, until 2011. Here’s a 2013 article I spam all the time from the guys who made this into a thing: 

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jan-Kromeier/publication/236934203_The_varying_size_of_exit_wounds_from_center-fire_rifles_as_a_consequence_of_the_temporary_cavity/links/00b7d51aae58848a31000000/The-varying-size-of-exit-wounds-from-center-fire-rifles-as-a-consequence-of-the-temporary-cavity.pdf?origin=publication_detail

Note Figure 2 where the fragment trail got scattered across the diameter of the temporary cavity and behind it. This is literally the only evidence I’ve seen suggesting that sort of thing can happen, but it’s a potentially interesting lead. The researchers used a .556 x 45 bullet, which tumbles after only about ~12cm of gel penetration, whereas 6.5mm MC bullets are extremely stable until around 60cm, so the bullet would need to lose stability on occipital bone impact in the perfect way to align the temp cavity with the exit for this to work. The Edgewood study is a start for proof of concept, but without all the raw data and photos that report is basically worthless. 

http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf

I have not seen any studies comparing skull exit planes and wound/fracture patterns with temp cavity locations, but that’s what you should look for. This is the closest thing I could find but it used simulated skulls and entrances in frontal bone - and the authors did not vary the wound track to align the temp cavity with the exit:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5807523/

I’m other words, this is really just a bunch of b.s. unless you can correlate the JFK medical evidence to the expected wound/fracture patterns, fragment trails, head motion, etc. in this type of scenario, which may not be possible. You’d also have to estimate the probability of it actually happening, and consider if other shot scenarios like a tangential strike are a better fit for the evidence. Of course, this is all assuming that the medical evidence is 100% legit, which is obviously debatable. 

 

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

After looking at recent wound ballistics literature a bit, I think the basic scenario you’ve been describing in this thread may be possible under a very narrow set of circumstances. Pat is correct that a MC bullet will not explode a skull and create wounds like JFK’s from the temporary cavity alone, but exit wound size is highly dependent on the location of the exit plane relative to the temporary cavity. IF the exit plane occurred within the temp cavity as opposed to behind or in front of it, that could potentially account for the large exit, and the lacerated scalp. 

This wasn’t considered by any of the investigations or experts because despite it being an intuitive and seemingly obvious concept, the relationship between temp cavity location and exit wound size was apparently not directly studied, by anyone, until 2011. Here’s a 2013 article I spam all the time from the guys who made this into a thing: 

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jan-Kromeier/publication/236934203_The_varying_size_of_exit_wounds_from_center-fire_rifles_as_a_consequence_of_the_temporary_cavity/links/00b7d51aae58848a31000000/The-varying-size-of-exit-wounds-from-center-fire-rifles-as-a-consequence-of-the-temporary-cavity.pdf?origin=publication_detail

Note Figure 2 where the fragment trail got scattered across the diameter of the temporary cavity and behind it. This is literally the only evidence I’ve seen suggesting that sort of thing can happen, but it’s a potentially interesting lead. The researchers used a .556 x 45 bullet, which tumbles after only about ~12cm of gel penetration, whereas 6.5mm MC bullets are extremely stable until around 60cm, so the bullet would need to lose stability on occipital bone impact in the perfect way to align the temp cavity with the exit for this to work. The Edgewood study is a start for proof of concept, but without all the raw data and photos that report is basically worthless. 

http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf

I have not seen any studies comparing skull exit planes and wound/fracture patterns with temp cavity locations, but that’s what you should look for. This is the closest thing I could find but it used simulated skulls and entrances in frontal bone - and the authors did not vary the wound track to align the temp cavity with the exit:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5807523/

I’m other words, this is really just a bunch of b.s. unless you can correlate the JFK medical evidence to the expected wound/fracture patterns, fragment trails, head motion, etc. in this type of scenario, which may not be possible. You’d also have to estimate the probability of it actually happening, and consider if other shot scenarios like a tangential strike are a better fit for the evidence. Of course, this is all assuming that the medical evidence is 100% legit, which is obviously debatable. 

 

Thanks for that interesting study Tom. The study says that if a bullet exits at the point the temporary cavity is at its maximum, this will result in an explosive exit wound. This is most likely what we see on the Zapruder film.

Normally it wound appear that if a skull is struck with a 6.5 Carcano bullet, the bullet wound go straight through and the temporary cavity does not occur within the confines of the skull but occurs in the air outside the skull, at the exit side, after the bullet has already exited. But in JFKs case, the situation was different. The bullet entered at the EOP which is a very thick part of the skull. This caused the bullet to slow down much more rapidly which meant the temporary cavity occurred quicker, inside the skull, rather than occurring in the air outside JFKs skull, at the exit point, after the bullet had already exited the head. This is why the image Pat Speer previously posted on this thread is not a workable comparison for the Z313 fatal head shot. That image has the bullet entering the forehead area which is thinner bone than the EOP area. That means the bullet would have tumbled less inside the head meaning the temporary cavity would have been created once the bullet had already exited the skull, out in the air on the exit side of the skull. Whereas with JFKs head wound, the temporary cavity was created inside the skull.

It would appear that the temporary cavity reached its maximum circumference at a point right where the bullet fragments exited the top right front of JFKs skull resulting in the explosion there as seen on the Zapruder film. I wonder if this adds anything to the jet effect theory - the temporary cavity being at its maximum right at the surface of the top right front of JFKs skull possibly aiding in propelling him backwards and to the left?

The study also says:

In cartridges with expanding projectiles (e.g., semi-jacketed or hollow-point bullets as used in .223 Remington varmint rifles), the maximum size of the temporary cavity would be expected immediately behind the entrance without a narrow channel in front of it. In contrast, non-deforming rifle bullets cause a wound profile that can be divided into three clearly distinguishable sections [16]: first, the narrow channel, followed by the temporary cavity and finally by a section with a smaller diameter (sometimes accompanied by a second but smaller cavity).

This is how the bullet got past the cerebellum without causing any damage to it. The bullet created a narrow channel after entering at the EOP and while it was travelling above the cerebellum. Once it was past the cerebellum the channel widened into a large cone. The below diagram from the study shows the initial narrow channel followed by the wide code of the temporary cavity:

Another part of the study Tom Gram linked to that caught my eye was the below section which might be relevant to the dispersion of metallic fragments seen in JFKs skull:

According to the CT findings, the second half of the perforated soap block contained small metallic particles mostly located around the temporary cavity and behind it. This phenomenon can be explained by bending and compressive stresses squeezing parts of the lead core out of the jacket when the yawing bullet is subjected to lateral forces [16].

The chance occurrence of the bullet fragments exiting at a point where the temporary cavity was at its maximum may have had an effect on the pattern of metallic fragments seen in the right lateral JFK skull x-ray. Whereas we might expect to see a straight line of metallic fragments from the EOP to the exit point, the disruption of the temporary cavity at a point meeting the surface of the top right front of the inner surface of the skull may have disrupted the usual linear pattern of metallic fragments and sent them into a random pattern that does not appear at first glance to make sense.

Also, when a bullet enters a body it tumbles in such a way that it tends to send the nose of the bullet downwards and the base of the bullet upwards. So the base of the bullet would have been upwards towards the top of JFKs skull as it tumbled through JFKs head. The base of the bullet was later found in the front of the limousine and had lost all its lead core. This makes me wonder that as the base of the bullet was towards the upper part of the skull as it flew through JFKs head that it deposited its lead core in a fragment trail that would be more towards the top of the head and this may account for the trail of metallic fragments as seen in the right lateral JFK skull x-ray which is in an unusual pattern towards the top of the head and out of line from the EOP entry site. 

[Michael Griffith]

Below are some witnesses whom I have not quoted yet regarding the large amount of missing brain. Either these people were all "mistaken" or the autopsy brain photos are fraudulent. Note that their accounts consist of observations made at close range in the back seat of the limo, then at Parkland Hospital, then at the autopsy, and then after the autopsy.

Floyd Riebe, who assisted John Stringer with taking photos at the autopsy, said that less than half the brain was present:

          Q: Did you see the brain removed from President Kennedy?
          A: What little bit there was left, yes.
          Q: Were any photographs taken of the brain?
          A: I think I did some when they were putting it in that stainless steel pail.
          Q: When you say that there was not much left, what do you mean by that?
          A: Well, it was less than half of a brain there. (Deposition of Floyd Albert Riebe, ARRB, 5/7/1997, pp. 43-44)

From Clint Hill's 11/22/1963 report, in which he describes what he saw at very close range as he rode on top of the back seat on the way to Parkland--part of the brain was gone and there was a wound in the right-rear part of the head:

          As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. (11/22/1963 report, p. 3)

From Clint Hill's WC testimony--there were pieces of brain matter "all over" the rear part of the car, and he still saw the right-rear head wound:

          Mr. SPECTER: What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

          Mr. HILL: The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head. (2 H 141)

Mortician Tom Robinson, who witnessed the autopsy and who reassembled JFK's skull after the autopsy, said that the amount of brain missing in the back of the head was about the size of a closed fist:

          Robinson said that he saw the brain removed from President Kennedy's body and that a large percentage of it was gone "in the back," from the "medulla," and that the portion of the brain that was missing was about the size of a closed fist. He described the condition of the brain in this area as the consistency of "soup." (Meeting Report, ARRB, 6/21/1996, p. 2)

Gloria Knudsen, wife of Robert Knudsen, who processed some of the autopsy photos, said her husband told her that JFK's brains were largely missing:

          Mrs. Gloria Knudsen said that her husband Robert had told her that . . . the President's brains were largely missing (blown out). (Meeting Report, ARRB, 5/10/1996, p. 2)

I should add that Dr. Mantik has confirmed via OD measurements that the skull x-rays indicate a large amount of missing brain, on both sides of the skull, and that more than half of the right side of the brain is missing.

The alleged autopsy photos of the brain show very little brain matter missing. They could not be photos of JFK's brain. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Gerry Down]

13 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Below are some witnesses whom I have not quoted yet regarding the large amount of missing brain. Either these people were all "mistaken" or the autopsy brain photos are fraudulent. Note that their accounts consist of observations made at close range in the back seat of the limo, then at Parkland Hospital, then at the autopsy, and then after the autopsy.

Floyd Riebe, who assisted John Stringer with taking photos at the autopsy, said that less than half the brain was present:

          Q: Did you see the brain removed from President Kennedy?
          A: What little bit there was left, yes.
          Q: Were any photographs taken of the brain?
          A: I think I did some when they were putting it in that stainless steel pail.
          Q: When you say that there was not much left, what do you mean by that?
          A: Well, it was less than half of a brain there. (Deposition of Floyd Albert Riebe, ARRB, 5/7/1997, pp. 43-44)

From Clint Hill's 11/22/1963 report, in which he describes what he saw at very close range as he rode on topof the back seat on the way to Parkland--part of the brain was gone and there was a wound in the right-rear part of the head:

          As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. (11/22/1963 report, p. 3)

From Clint Hill's WC testimony--there were pieces of brain matter "all over" the rear part of the car, and he still saw the right-rear head wound:

          Mr. SPECTER: What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

          Mr. HILL: The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head. (2 H 141)

Mortician Tom Robinson, who witnessed the autopsy and who reassembled JFK's skull after the autopsy, said that the amount of brain missing in the back of the head was about the size of a closed fist:

          Robinson said that he saw the brain removed from President Kennedy's body and that a large percentage of it was gone "in the back," from the "medulla," and that the portion of the brain that was missing was about the size of a closed fist. He described the condition of the brain in this area as the consistency of "soup." (Meeting Report, ARRB, 6/21/1996, p. 2)

Gloria Knudsen, wife of Robert Knudsen, who processed some of the autopsy photos, said her husband told her that JFK's brains were largely missing:

          Mrs. Gloria Knudsen said that her husband Robert had told her that . . . the President's brains were largely missing (blown out). (Meeting Report, ARRB, 5/10/1996, p. 2)

The alleged autopsy photos of the brain show very little brain matter missing. 

About the size of a fist, that sounds about right. 

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Thanks for that interesting study Tom. The study says that if a bullet exits at the point the temporary cavity is at its maximum, this will result in an explosive exit wound. This is most likely what we see on the Zapruder film.

Normally it wound appear that if a skull is struck with a 6.5 Carcano bullet, the bullet wound go straight through and the temporary cavity does not occur within the confines of the skull but occurs in the air outside the skull, at the exit side, after the bullet has already exited. But in JFKs case, the situation was different. The bullet entered at the EOP which is a very thick part of the skull. This caused the bullet to slow down much more rapidly which meant the temporary cavity occurred quicker, inside the skull, rather than occurring in the air outside JFKs skull, at the exit point, after the bullet had already exited the head. This is why the image Pat Speer previously posted on this thread is not a workable comparison for the Z313 fatal head shot. That image has the bullet entering the forehead area which is thinner bone than the EOP area. That means the bullet would have tumbled less inside the head meaning the temporary cavity would have been created once the bullet had already exited the skull, out in the air on the exit side of the skull. Whereas with JFKs head wound, the temporary cavity was created inside the skull.

It would appear that the temporary cavity reached its maximum circumference at a point right where the bullet fragments exited the top right front of JFKs skull resulting in the explosion there as seen on the Zapruder film. I wonder if this adds anything to the jet effect theory - the temporary cavity being at its maximum right at the surface of the top right front of JFKs skull possibly aiding in propelling him backwards and to the left?

The study also says:

In cartridges with expanding projectiles (e.g., semi-jacketed or hollow-point bullets as used in .223 Remington varmint rifles), the maximum size of the temporary cavity would be expected immediately behind the entrance without a narrow channel in front of it. In contrast, non-deforming rifle bullets cause a wound profile that can be divided into three clearly distinguishable sections [16]: first, the narrow channel, followed by the temporary cavity and finally by a section with a smaller diameter (sometimes accompanied by a second but smaller cavity).

This is how the bullet got past the cerebellum without causing any damage to it. The bullet created a narrow channel after entering at the EOP and while it was travelling above the cerebellum. Once it was past the cerebellum the channel widened into a large cone. The below diagram from the study shows the initial narrow channel followed by the wide code of the temporary cavity:

Another part of the study Tom Gram linked to that caught my eye was the below section which might be relevant to the dispersion of metallic fragments seen in JFKs skull:

According to the CT findings, the second half of the perforated soap block contained small metallic particles mostly located around the temporary cavity and behind it. This phenomenon can be explained by bending and compressive stresses squeezing parts of the lead core out of the jacket when the yawing bullet is subjected to lateral forces [16].

The chance occurrence of the bullet fragments exiting at a point where the temporary cavity was at its maximum may have had an effect on the pattern of metallic fragments seen in the right lateral JFK skull x-ray. Whereas we might expect to see a straight line of metallic fragments from the EOP to the exit point, the disruption of the temporary cavity at a point meeting the surface of the top right front of the inner surface of the skull may have disrupted the usual linear pattern of metallic fragments and sent them into a random pattern that does not appear at first glance to make sense.

Also, when a bullet enters a body it tumbles in such a way that it tends to send the nose of the bullet downwards and the base of the bullet upwards. So the base of the bullet would have been upwards towards the top of JFKs skull as it tumbled through JFKs head. The base of the bullet was later found in the front of the limousine and had lost all its lead core. This makes me wonder that as the base of the bullet was towards the upper part of the skull as it flew through JFKs head that it deposited its lead core in a fragment trail that would be more towards the top of the head and this may account for the trail of metallic fragments as seen in the right lateral JFK skull x-ray which is in an unusual pattern towards the top of the head and out of line from the EOP entry site. 

I had similar thoughts, especially regarding the fragment trail, but there’s a difference between saying something could have happened under certain conditions and proving that it actually did. A couple comments: 

1. In the images Pat posted of a MC bullet passing relatively cleanly through a skull, the bullet likely remained relatively stable through the skull, and possibly didn’t tumble i.e. reach maximum yaw until after it exited. Saying that the temp “cavity” occurred outside the skull doesn’t really make sense - the bullet would still create a temp cavity in the skull, it just wouldn’t be very big. The other possibility is that the bullet did tumble within the skull, but exited behind the temporary cavity - like in the far right region in that photo. This is what has traditionally been proposed for the JFK case by people like Martin Fackler and Larry Sturdivan, but despite massive fractures and internal injuries, the exit wound would likely not be very big in that scenario, nor would there be large regions of missing scalp. Those are the issues that can potentially be resolved by placing the exit plane within the temporary cavity. 

2. The direction that a bullet yaws in tissue after entry, and the resulting wound track, is entirely dependent on the angle of entrance. A bullet yawing upwards on entrance will tend to yaw upwards in tissue from the resulting drag forces, like a plane taking off. I think so, at least. I found this article but it’s behind a paywall - I’m sure you can find out how to get access if you’re interested: 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353153605_Yawing_motion_of_rifle_bullets_penetrating_into_ballistic_gelatin

[Gerry Down]

As far as I know, the right lateral x-ray was taken at a time when the brain was still inside the skull. And hence the brain is visible in the right lateral x-ray. 

Does anyone know if that x-ray shows the brain stem intact or has it been cut in preparation to remove the brain after that x-ray would be taken? Is the x-ray able to pick up that kind of detail that it would actually show the brain stem to have been cut?

[Michael Griffith]

As you read these additional accounts of missing brain matter, keep in mind that the alleged autopsy photos of the brain show virtually no brain tissue missing. Also keep in mind that the autopsy doctors claimed that the brain shown in those photos weighed 1,500 grams! This is astounding because the average male brain weighs about 1,350 grams. Keep these facts in mind as you read the accounts below.

Patrolman Bobby Hargis, who was riding closely behind and to the left of the limousine, said that when the explosive head shot occurred, he was "splattered with blood and brain":

          Mr. HARGIS. Yes; when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. (6 H 294)

Patrolman B. J. Martin, who was riding beside Hargis, said blood and "other matter" were splattered on his uniform, windshield, and motor:

          Mr. BALL. What about your uniform?Mr. 
          Mr. MARTIN. There was blood and matter on my left shoulder of my uniform.
          Mr. BALL. You pointed to a place in front of your shoulder, about the clavicle region?
          Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
          Mr. BALL. Is that about where it was?
          Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
          Mr. BALL. On the front of your uniform and not on the side?
          Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.
          Mr. BALL. That would be left, was it?
          Mr. MARTIN. Yes ; on the left side.
          Mr. BALL. And just below the level of the shoulder?
          Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
          Mr. BALL. And what spots were there?
          Mr. MARTIN. They were blood spots and other matter.
          Mr. BALL. And what did you notice on your windshield?
          Mr. MARTIN. There was blood and other matter on my windshield and also onthe motor. (6 H 292)

Jack McNairy, who saw the limousine up-close at Parkland Hospital, said in a video-taped interview that there was "gray matter" splattered over a large part of the back seat:

          As I looked around, I saw that there was gray matter splattered here [pointing to the inside of the rear passenger door to the right JFK's seat] and along the back of the front seat. (LINK)

Patrolman H. B. McClain, who helped Jackie get out of the limousine at Parkland Hospital, said in a video-taped interview that there was "matter" splattered all over the inside of the right-hand side of the car:

          I could see what looked like a piece of skull, some hair, and matter splattered all over inside the car. It was all on the right-hand side of the car, except the part of the skull--it was laying right in the middle. (LINK)

When interview by CBS News in 2013, Clint Hill repeated his account of seeing a large amount of missing brain:

          Scott Pelley: What did you see?

          Clint Hill: Brain matter, blood, bone fragments all come out of the wound.… Then Mrs. Kennedy came up on the trunk. She was trying to grab some of that material and pull it back with her.… I got a hold of her and I put her in the backseat. … And when I did that, his body fell to its left into her lap. His face--is head was in her lap. The right side of his face was up. I could see his eyes were fixed. I could see an area through the skull that there was no brain matter in that area at all. So I assumed it was a fatal wound. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/agent-who-jumped-on-jfks-limo-recounts-fateful-moments/)

Secret Service agent Sam Kinney, who rode in the follow-up car, stated in a recorded interview with Vincent Palamara that brain matter splattered "all over" his windshield and arm:

          The back of that Lincoln would be directly in front of me. Well, I had brain matter all over my windshield and arm. That's how close we were. (LINK, 19:33-19:47)

In 2003, Dr. Robeert Grossman, one of the Parkland doctors, wrote that Jackie's dress was splattered with brain tissue and blood:

          Her face was very white and she appeared to have been crying. She was wearing a light-colored dress. The lap of her dress was covered with blood and brain tissue. (https://www.deseret.com/2003/11/22/19797270/neurosurgeon-recalls-examining-the-dying-jfk)

Clearly, the autopsy brain photos do not show JFK's brain. Similarly, the claim that JFK's post-assassination brain weighed 1,500 grams is obviously bogus. Even if we assume the brain was weighed after it had been fixed in formalin, the weight of 1,500 grams is ludicrous. Fixing a brain in formalin may add about 100 grams of weight, but it may also reduce the weight by that amount. The average male human brain weighs about 1,350 grams. 

Finally, a quick point about the cerebellum. The cerebellum has a different color and has different topographical markings than other brain tissue, so it is just not reasonable or credible to suggest that two neurosurgeons mistook brain tissue from the temporal lobe, the occipital lobe, or the parietal lobe for cerebellar tissue.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Gerry Down]

20 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Finally, a quick point about the cerebellum. The cerebellum has a different color and has different topographical markings than other brain tissue, so it is just not reasonable or credible to suggest that two neurosurgeons mistook brain tissue from the temporal lobe, the occipital lobe, or the parietal lobe for cerebellar tissue.

Its credible when you consider the brain tissue was shredded from the massive head wound and so was not in its normal texture or consistency.

What is your theory? Are you suggesting the autopsy doctors got another brain and damaged it on the right hand side to make it look like a bullet had gone through it from the rear?

[Gerry Down]

It should be noted that we can't see the entire cerebellum in the autopsy photo. Some of it is covered by the upper portion of the brain. The part of the cerebellum hidden could have been damaged by the temporary cavitation and fragments of cerebellum ejected backwards towards the EOP area due to the effects of back spatter. Back spatter is when blood is ejected back out the entrance wound in a gunshot situation. The late forensic specialist Sherry Fiester talks about back spatter in her book Enemy Of The Truth.

[Michael Griffith]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

 

Its credible when you consider the brain tissue was shredded from the massive head wound and so was not in its normal texture or consistency.

Oh, come on. Shredding would not have changed the cerebellum's color, nor its location. 

What is your theory? Are you suggesting the autopsy doctors got another brain and damaged it on the right hand side to make it look like a bullet had gone through it from the rear?

Are you saying that the numerous witnesses--doctors, nurses, federal agents, police officers, the mortician, med-techs at the autopsy, and others--who saw a large amount of brain missing in the skull and/or who saw brain matter splattered inside the limo, on the trunk of the limo, on the follow-up car, on the two left-side patrolmen, and on Jackie's dress--that they were all somehow "mistaken"? The fact that brain matter was splattered on six surfaces is a matter of record that no one has ever dared to dispute.

How could JFK's brain have weighed anywhere close to 1500 grams given the amount of brain tissue that was splattered inside the limo, on the trunk of the limo, on the follow-up car, on Jackie's dress, and on two of the trailing patrolmen? 

How do you explain the fact that the skull x-rays show a large amount of brain missing, just as numerous witnesses described? Just an amazing, cosmic coincidence?

Yes, I am absolutely saying that the brain in the autopsy brain photos could not be JFK's brain. Yes, I am absolutely saying that another brain was used for those photos. That is the only rational, credible explanation. JFK's brain could not have weighed 1500 grams (150 grams more than the average male brain).

At some point, common sense, candor, and Occam's razor have to carry the day. It is indisputable that brain matter was splattered on six different surfaces. It is simply a fact that cerebellar tissue looks very different than other brain tissue, including in its color. It is ludicrous and discrediting to claim that the witnesses who saw a large amount of missing brain were actually looking at the brain shown in the autopsy brain photos, especially the mortician who reassembled the skull, the federal agent who got three up-close prolonged looks at the large head wound, and the nurse who packed the head wound with gauze. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Its credible when you consider the brain tissue was shredded from the massive head wound and so was not in its normal texture or consistency.

Oh, come on. Shredding would not have changed the cerebellum's color, nor its location. 

What is your theory? Are you suggesting the autopsy doctors got another brain and damaged it on the right hand side to make it look like a bullet had gone through it from the rear?

Are you saying that the numerous witnesses--doctors, nurses, federal agents, police officers, the mortician, med-techs at the autopsy, and others--who saw a large amount of brain missing in the skull and/or who saw brain matter splattered inside the limo, on the trunk of the limo, on the follow-up car, on the two left-side patrolmen, and on Jackie's dress--that they were all somehow "mistaken"? The fact that brain matter was splattered on six surfaces is a matter of record that no one has ever dared to dispute.

How could JFK's brain have weighed anywhere close to 1500 grams given the amount of brain tissue that was splattered inside the limo, on the trunk of the limo, on the follow-up car, on Jackie's dress, and on two of the trailing patrolmen? 

How do you explain the fact that the skull x-rays show a large amount of brain missing, just as numerous witnesses described? Just an amazing, cosmic coincidence?

Yes, I am absolutely saying that the brain in the autopsy brain photos could not be JFK's brain. Yes, I am absolutely saying that another brain was used for those photos. That is the only rational, credible explanation. JFK's brain could not have weighed 1500 grams (150 grams more than the average male brain).

At some point, common sense, candor, and Occam's razor have to carry the day. It is indisputable that brain matter was splattered on six different surfaces. It is simply a fact that cerebellar tissue looks very different than other brain tissue, including in its color. It is ludicrous and discrediting to claim that the witnesses who saw a large amount of missing brain were actually looking at the brain shown in the autopsy brain photos, especially the mortician who reassembled the skull, the federal agent who got three up-close prolonged looks at the large head wound, and the nurse who packed the head wound with gauze. 

 

You are absolutely right Michael. There was a large blowout wound on the back of the right side of JFK's skull. About the size of a small fist. Cerebellar and other brain tissue oozed from it. A large amount of brain tissue had been blown out and was splattered all over the place.

Gerry and others here have fallen for the coverup fake evidence. I learned a long time ago to place the most importance on witnesses whose accounts are corroborated. You can use that to help determine what evidence can be trusted. The blowout head wound is a perfect example of finding ones way through the coverup.

BTW, why do these guys keep talking about a Mannlicher Carcano (MC) bullet? (Which is really just a Carcano gun/bullet, FWIW.) It's highly unlikely that that was the gun that shot Kennedy. My goodness, do they also believe that LHO shot Kennedy?)

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Gerry and others here have fallen for the coverup fake evidence. I learned a long time ago to place the most importance on witnesses whose accounts are corroborated. You can use that to help determine what evidence can be trusted. The blowout head wound is a perfect example of finding ones way through the coverup.

I was wondering when Sandy was going to trout the old "all the evidence is fake" trope as he often does when discussing the Oswald doppelganger nonsense. There was no "blowout" to the back right of JFK's head -- only the wound on the top and right side, which is manifestly apparent in both the Zapruder film and autopsy photos.

[Sandy Larsen]

9 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

I was wondering when Sandy was going to trout the old "all the evidence is fake" trope as he often does when discussing the Oswald doppelganger nonsense. There was no "blowout" to the back right of JFK's head -- only the wound on the top and right side, which is manifestly apparent in both the Zapruder film and autopsy photos.

 

Do you ever do anything useful?

 

[Michael Griffith]

Here are more eyewitnesses who said a large part of JFK's brain was missing. 

Keep in mind that Vincent Bugliosi's "answer" to all this evidence of considerable missing brain was to quote Michael Baden! Baden told Bugliosi that, gee, he had looked at the autopsy photos of the brain and they showed that only "an ounce or two" of brain matter was missing. End of story, according to Baden and Bugliosi. If so, JFK's brain lost no more than 56 grams of its matter (1 ounce = 28 grams). "Basically," Baden assured Bugliosi, "the president's whole brain was still there." Keep this nonsense in mind as you read the accounts below.

Francis O'Neill, one of the two FBI agents who attended the autopsy:

          Parts of the brain were still within the cavity, but not much. The head wound was massive. It would seem that no one could survive such an injury. . . .

          Humes pointed out a tracheostomy had been performed. He also pointed out to Sibert and myself the grave wound at the right rear of the President's head and the tremendous damage done to the brain therein. (Report of Francis O'Neill: "Assassination of President John F. Kennedy and Aftermath,” ARRB record MD 189, p. 6)

From O'Neill's ARRB interview:

          Mr. Gunn: Earlier in the deposition we referred to your observation of the brain being removed during the course of the autopsy Do you recall that?

          Mr. O'Neill: Yes.

          Mr. O'Neill: [After some discussion about removal procedures] "... Now once again too this is just a portion of it [the brain] because the rest of it was--you know, really gone. And it was a very, very large portion of it. . . . 

          Mr. Gunn: "Do you have any sense of what percentage of the brain was missing at the time it was removed from the cranium?

          Mr. O'Neill: . . . It was--Oh well, more than half of the brain was missing. (ARRB Deposition of Former FBI SA Francis O'Neill, 9/12/1997, pp. 74-75)

Again, Dr. Mantik's OD measurements of the skull x-rays confirm O'Neill's account. 

James Sibert, the other FBI agent who attended the autopsy:

          A: I think part of the brain was missing, as I recall, or a statement to that effect was made--due to this explosion caused by the gunshot wound in the head.

          Q: Do you recall seeing. . . .?

          A: I certainly don’t recall seeing an intact brain, you know, like you see on a color photograph in med school or something like that. (Deposition of James Sibert, ARRB, 9/11/1997, p. 84)

Dr. Charles Crenshaw, one of the Parkland doctors:

           - Head wound was behind right ear, in the occipital-parietal region, in right rear quadrant of the head,
and was baseball-sized;
          - Brain matter was oozing out, and had a consistency resembling oatmeal;
          - He feels he definitely saw cerebellum extruding from the wound;
          - There was a complete absence of bone, hair and scalp at the wound site. (Meeting Report, ARRB, 4/14/1997, p. 1)

Yet, the autopsy report says nothing about damage to the cerebellum, and the alleged autopsy brain photos show no apparent damage to the cerebellum. 
 
Dr. Robert McClelland, one of the Parkland doctors, told the WC that at least a third of the brain had been blasted out:

          You could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue, had been blasted out. There was a large amount of bleeding, which was occurring mainly from the large venous channel in the skull which had been blasted open. (6 H 33)

And remember that according to the autopsy records, JFK's post-mortem brain weighed 1500 grams, about 150 grams more than the average male brain weighs! As mentioned, Baden told Bugliosi that JFK's brain was missing no more than 56 grams of tissue ("an ounce or two"). Right. And just never you mind about all the brain matter that was splattered inside the limo, on the back of the limo, on Jackie's dress, on the follow-up car, and on two of the trailing patrolmen? Only "an ounce or two"? You bet. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Michael Griffith