Some Simple Questions About the Single-Bullet Theory

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:

Your concern is him taking sharpe turns with his back history? I've yet to see a film in the Dallas parade where JFK was making "sharpe turns."  Didn't seem to be a problem in past motorcade rides.

That's just the point. He might have been careful not to make sharp turns, but then one of the girls on the sidewalk shouted to jfk and he momentarily forgot himself, looked sharp to his right, and inadvertently gave himself a sharp pain in his back.

I'm not saying that's what happened but it's something worth exploring.

[Paul Cummings]

16 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

That's just the point. He might have been careful not to make sharp turns, but then one of the girls on the sidewalk shouted to jfk and he momentarily forgot himself, looked sharp to his right, and inadvertently gave himself a sharp pain in his back.

I'm not saying that's what happened but it's something worth exploring.

Based upon that type of theory maybe JFK had to go to the bathroom and that was causing his issues? It's endless speculation you're incorporating.

[Michael Griffith]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:24 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

JBC's testimony, and the many witnesses who heard "bang....bang-bang" lines up more with JBC being shot at ~Z295, followed by the Z313 shot. 

I think you are correct on the timing of the first audible shot. (We both should remember there may have been other shots using silencers or even a pneumatic gun, or nearly simultaneous shots heard as one shot).  

In testimony before the WC, HSCA, and media, JBC's describes hearing the first shot, then turning around over his own right shoulder to have a look, failing to see anything, and then turning forward to try to look over his own left shoulder, when then he was struck and "pushed forward." That happens ~Z295.

JBC, an experienced hunter, also described bullets as entering the cab of the limo as if from automatic weapons fire. 

I have trouble with your timing of shots, especially as it has JBC doing a 180-degree turn in his seat after being shot through the chest, an event he described (believably) as immediately incapacitating. 

Anyway IMHO....

Connally's wrist may have been hit at Z295, which would explain why he was able to keep gripping his hat for so long after the supposed magic-bullet hit. (Even the HSCA FPP could not explain how Connally was able to keep holding his hat, a fact that Dr. Wecht emphasized in his dissent.)

However, how do you explain the dramatic collapse of Connally's right shoulder that starts in Z238, especially since Connally said the bullet's impact felt like someone hit him hard in the back? The visible slamming down of his shoulder matches perfectly with his determination that he was hit at Z234 and that the impact felt like a hard blow. 

As for the comical speculation (not yours) that JFK injured his back when he turned his head quickly to the left and that this head turn injured him and caused him to bring his hands toward his throat, what can one say in response to such a strained, bizarre argument? 

Here's the problem: Anyone with two working eyes can see that Jackie snaps her head to the right starting at around Z193, and that by Z204 her gaze is fixed on JFK and is still fixed on him in Z221. So, obviously, JFK began to react to his first wound many frames before Z224. Thus, now we hear the laughable theory that JFK was reacting because he had just injured his back!

20 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Jackie's testimony is devastating to the theory that jfk was shot before he went behind the sign because she was looking in his general vicinity and saw nothing wrong with jfk at that time. 

LOL! I'm sorry, but LOL! 

Even in her jumbled, partial recollection, Jackie said that when she turned to look at JFK, "his hand was up" and he had a "quizzical look on his face." Clearly, she was referring to when JFK began to bring his hands up toward his throat, and the quizzical look on his face was abnormal compared to every previous frame and photo of JFK before that point. How in the world do you interpret her description as saying "she saw nothing wrong with JFK at that time"? How? 

If she had seen nothing wrong with him when she first looked at him, she would not have continued to stare at him through Z249, just before she starts to reach out to him. After starting at him since Z204, she starts to reach out to him in Z250, obviously to try to help him. 

Again, we can all see these things. They are undeniable. It is just a matter of being willing to admit it. But, you and others just cannot do this because you would have to abandon the SBT and with it the lone-gunman theory. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Gerry Down]

The first that Jackie noticed anything wrong was when Connally started roaring. We both agree this was sometime after z224. Therefore it follows she notices nothing wrong with jfk while they were behind the sign.

[Gerry Down]

Both jfk and Jackie are looking to their right at z193. This opens up the possibility that they both look in that direction cos the girls on the sidewalk shouted out to them, which they testified to doing. You want to pretend that Jackie alone moves her head to the right at z193 and want to ignore that jfk is doing the same thing. 

[Sandy Larsen]

23 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

On 6/19/2023 at 5:50 AM, Michael Griffith said:

[Jackie's] testimony is one clear case where the Zapruder film is more reliable than the person's memory.

So the witness was confused. That's handy.

 

Huh? That's handy??

I'll tell you what's handy.... it's when Michael has presented a large, convincing list of evidence supporting his claim, and you counter that by cherry picking the one thing you can find to support your opposing claim.

I'm embarrassed for you. No wonder Michael is indignant. Or perplexed, whatever the case may be.

 

[Gerry Down]

50 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Huh? That's handy??

I'll tell you what's handy.... it's when Michael has presented a large, convincing list of evidence supporting his claim, and you counter that by cherry picking the one thing you can find to support your opposing claim.

I'm embarrassed for you. No wonder Michael is indignant. Or perplexed, whatever the case may be.

 

Brushing over her testimony is hardly a small thing.

[Paul Cummings]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Both jfk and Jackie are looking to their right at z193. This opens up the possibility that they both look in that direction cos the girls on the sidewalk shouted out to them, which they testified to doing. You want to pretend that Jackie alone moves her head to the right at z193 and want to ignore that jfk is doing the same thing. 

Yes, they were the ONLY people in the crowd shouting at the motorcade. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Paul Cummings

[Gerry Down]

22 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Yes, they were the ONLY people in the crowd shouting at the motorcade. 

They specifically said they shouted for jfk and Jackie to look in their direction.

Who knows, maybe jfk and Jackie did just that.

Kind of a far out idea. But who knows.

[Michael Griffith]

3 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

The first that Jackie noticed anything wrong was when Connally started roaring. We both agree this was sometime after z224. Therefore it follows she notices nothing wrong with jfk while they were behind the sign.

You know this is not what the Zapruder film shows, and you know that Jackie badly mangled the order of events in the shooting sequence. But, true to form, you accept her impossible account, even though the Zapruder film proves she was thoroughly confused and wrong.

You claim that 40-plus witnesses, including doctors in nurses, in three different locations, could not tell the difference between a large wound in back of the head and a large wound over the right ear. You claim that Hunes could not tell the difference between the high fragment trail near the very top of the skull and a trail that was several inches lower and that ran between two fixed reference points. But, you accept Jackie's mangled account because you don't want to face what the Zapruder film clearly shows.

We can see in the Zapruder film that Jackie's head freezes in place from Z204 through Z249, and that her gaze is fixed on JFK during these frames. This is indisputably clear in Z221, regardless of what you want to imagine she is doing before then. 

Yes, of course, JFK and Jackie had earlier turned to the right, and, yes, we see JFK waving at people to his right in the Z180s. No one denies this. But, as the HSCA PEP noted, this changes dramatically starting at around Z200, when JFK's right hand suddenly freezes in mid-motion and he starts to bring his hands toward his throat. In Z205, his right hand is in front of his mouth, and in Z224 his left forearm is clearly bent inward and his hand is approaching his throat. 

It is a new level absurdity and unseriousness to propose that JFK freezes his waving motion and starts to reach for his throat because he injured his back when he turned to his right to wave at the crowd. 

If I were inclined to waste more time on this farcical theory, I might ask why anyone would reach for their throat after injuring their lower back. When a person is injured, they naturally, instinctively reach for the injured area. If you hurt your knee, you reach for your knee. If you suffer a cramp in your left thigh, you reach for your left thigh. If you pinch a nerve or strain a muscle in your lower back, you don't reach for your throat.  

Deep down in some corner of your mind, you must recognize the self-evident fact that JFK is reacting to being shot and that his reaction is obviously why Jackie is looking intently at him in Z221 and why she continues to stare at him until she begins to reach out to him in Z250. The problem is that you will not admit this because it destroys the SBT and the lone-gunman theory along with it. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Gerry Down]

31 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

You know this is not what the Zapruder film shows, and you know that Jackie badly mangled the order of events in the shooting sequence. But, true to form, you accept her impossible account, even though the Zapruder film proves she was thoroughly confused and wrong.

You claim that 40-plus witnesses, including doctors in nurses, in three different locations, could not tell the difference between a large wound in back of the head and a large wound over the right ear. You claim that Hunes could not tell the difference between the high fragment trail near the very top of the skull and a trail that was several inches lower and that ran between two fixed reference points. But, you accept Jackie's mangled account because you don't want to face what the Zapruder film clearly shows.

We can see in the Zapruder film that Jackie's head freezes in place from Z204 through Z249, and that her gaze is fixed on JFK during these frames. This is indisputably clear in Z221, regardless of what you want to imagine she is doing before then. 

Yes, of course, JFK and Jackie had earlier turned to the right, and, yes, we see JFK waving at people to his right in the Z180s. No one denies this. But, as the HSCA PEP noted, this changes dramatically starting at around Z200, when JFK's right hand suddenly freezes in mid-motion and he starts to bring his hands toward his throat. In Z205, his right hand is in front of his mouth, and in Z224 his left forearm is clearly bent inward and his hand is approaching his throat. 

It is a new level absurdity and unseriousness to propose that JFK freezes his waving motion and starts to reach for his throat because he injured his back when he turned to his right to wave at the crowd. 

If I were inclined to waste more time on this farcical theory, I might ask why anyone would reach for their throat after injuring their lower back. When a person is injured, they naturally, instinctively reach for the injured area. If you hurt your knee, you reach for your knee. If you suffer a cramp in your left thigh, you reach for your left thigh. If you pinch a nerve or strain a muscle in your lower back, you don't reach for your throat.  

Deep down in some corner of your mind, you must recognize the self-evident fact that JFK is reacting to being shot and that his reaction is obviously why Jackie is looking intently at him in Z221 and why she continues to stare at him until she begins to reach out to him in Z250. The problem is that you will not admit this because it destroys the SBT and the lone-gunman theory along with it. 

The Zapruder film is too blurred to know if jfk is grimacing before he went behind the sign. What we do know is jfk made no sudden movements before he went behind the sign which would be a tell take sign of being shot. Jfk only makes a quick sudden jerk motion beginning at z224. JFKs left arm is relaxed when we see it emerge from behind the sign at z223 and then suddenly jerks up beginning at z224 which coincidentally happens with the connally lapel flip at z224. This is why the SBT has refused to go away.

 

 

 

[Michael Griffith]

WC defenders say they see Connally "wincing" just after he reemerges from behind the freeway sign, i.e., in Z222-230. Yet, Connally himself, after studying high-quality blowups of the Zapruder film for Life magazine, specifically said that he was not wincing in these frames. He also said he was not hit before Z231--and he, of course, was the guy who actually experienced the shooting. 

I see a look of concern, worry on Connally's face in Z222-230, but no wincing, no pained expression. Remember that Connally said that he immediately recognized the first loud bang that he heard as a gunshot, and that it occurred to him that this might be an assassination attempt. Thus, it is no surprise that he has a worried, concerned look on his face when he reemerges from behind the road sign. 

WC defenders also claim to see Connally's shoulders and upper torso stiffening in Z222-230. I actually agree with this. I, too, see this stiffening. However, this stiffening was not an indication that a bullet had just torn through his chest and right wrist; rather, it was a natural reaction to (1) having just heard what he recognized as a gunshot and (2) his concern that it indicated an assassination attempt. When you suddenly become alarmed, much of your body will stiffen. This is a natural reaction. Connally had just heard a gunshot and feared it might mean danger, so of course his shoulders and upper body stiffened and he exhibited a worried look on his face.

But a bullet clearly does not strike Connally until Z234, just as he said, because we see his large right shoulder slammed downward just 4/16ths of a second later, starting in Z238, just as he described. He said the bullet's impact felt like someone hit him with great force. Not only is his right shoulder knocked downward at this point, but his cheeks puff and a pained expression appears on face for the first time. 

It is obvious that Connally was hit long after JFK was hit. This is clear to anyone who is willing to admit what their eyes can plainly see. Connally was right when he insisted he was not hit before Z231 and when he identified Z234 as the moment of impact. Nellie Connally was right when she insisted that she saw JFK reaching for his throat before she even heard the shot that hit her husband. These facts explain why Jackie's head is already frozen in place and why she is already looking intently at JFK in Z221, and why she continues to do so for 28 more frames before she reaches out to help him.

I think these facts are one reason that the Zapruder film was withheld from the public for so long. Those who edited the film could not remove every problematic sequence and reaction. They could only do so much alteration. They realized that the edited version, though not as damaging as the original, was still very problematic for a lone-shooter scenario.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Gerry Down]

55 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

But a bullet clearly does not strike Connally until Z234, just as he said

Where did he say this?

[Ron Ege]

15 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Where did he say this?

Gerry, thanks.

Don't know if you find this helpful.

The Testimony of John B. Connally (jfk-assassination.net)

Specifically:

Senator COOPER. That is when you heard the first rifleshot?
Governor CONNALLY. This was after I heard the first rifleshot. There was no pain connected with it. There was no particular burning sensation. There was nothing more than that. I think you would feel almost the identical sensation I felt if someone came up behind you and just, with a short jab, hit you with a doubled-up fist just below the shoulder blade.
Senator COOPER. That is all.
Mr. SPECTER. I have just one other question, Governor. With respect to the films and the slides which you have viewed this morning, had you ever seen those pictures before this morning?
Governor CONNALLY. I had seen what purported to be a copy of the film when I was in the hospital in Dallas. I had not seen the slides.
Mr. SPECTER. And when do you think you were hit on those slides, Governor, or in what range of slides?
Governor CONNALLY. We took--you are talking about the number of the slides?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Governor CONNALLY. As we looked at them this morning, and as you related the numbers to me, it appeared to me that I was hit in the range between 130 or 131, I don't remember precisely, up to 134, in that bracket.
Mr. SPECTER. May I suggest to you that it was 231?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, 231 and 234, then.
Mr. SPECTER. The series under our numbering system starts with a higher number when the car comes around the turn, so when you come out of the sign, which was----
Governor CONNALLY. It was just after we came out of the sign, for whatever that sequence of numbers was, and if it was 200, I correct my testimony. It was 231 to about 234. It was within that range.

 

 

[Ron Ege]

10 minutes ago, Ron Ege said:

Gerry, thanks.

Don't know if you find this helpful.

The Testimony of John B. Connally (jfk-assassination.net)

Specifically:

Senator COOPER. That is when you heard the first rifleshot?
Governor CONNALLY. This was after I heard the first rifleshot. There was no pain connected with it. There was no particular burning sensation. There was nothing more than that. I think you would feel almost the identical sensation I felt if someone came up behind you and just, with a short jab, hit you with a doubled-up fist just below the shoulder blade.
Senator COOPER. That is all.
Mr. SPECTER. I have just one other question, Governor. With respect to the films and the slides which you have viewed this morning, had you ever seen those pictures before this morning?
Governor CONNALLY. I had seen what purported to be a copy of the film when I was in the hospital in Dallas. I had not seen the slides.
Mr. SPECTER. And when do you think you were hit on those slides, Governor, or in what range of slides?
Governor CONNALLY. We took--you are talking about the number of the slides?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Governor CONNALLY. As we looked at them this morning, and as you related the numbers to me, it appeared to me that I was hit in the range between 130 or 131, I don't remember precisely, up to 134, in that bracket.
Mr. SPECTER. May I suggest to you that it was 231?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, 231 and 234, then.
Mr. SPECTER. The series under our numbering system starts with a higher number when the car comes around the turn, so when you come out of the sign, which was----
Governor CONNALLY. It was just after we came out of the sign, for whatever that sequence of numbers was, and if it was 200, I correct my testimony. It was 231 to about 234. It was within that range.

 

 

And: 

What Caused Connally's Lapel Flap? : The JFK Assassination (22november1963.org.uk)

Specifically:

Conclusion: Identifying the Culprit

Wecht and Milam conclude that the lapel flap was almost certainly caused by the most obvious candidate, a gust of wind:

• Records at Love Field airport, close to downtown Dallas, show the steady wind speed to have been around 13 knots, or 15 miles per hour, with gusts (HSCA Report, appendix vol.8, pp.173–182).
• Films and photographs of the motorcade show the flags on the presidential limousine flapping, and several of the occupants holding onto their hair and hats from time to time.

In conclusion, the experimental evidence refutes rather than supports the notion that President Kennedy and Governor Connally were wounded almost simultaneously at frame 224 of the Zapruder film. The single–bullet theory remains just as implausible as ever.