ANGLETON And The COWBOY

[Paul Cummings]

13 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Paul, Chauncey Holt has been discredited widely to the extent the facts have been blurred beyond restoration imho, and perhaps by design; it's an area of inquiry that was intriguing decades ago and I had my own personal candidates for the tramps, none of whom was Holt.   Your thoughts?

 

I remain intrigued by the possibility that Lansdale is the character walking in the opposite direction in one of the tramp photos.

Leslie, I would go to youtube type Lois Gibson or go to her website as she staked her career and reputation that the older tramp was Holt. I guess I'm looking for specifics when it comes to the unsubstantiated or where he's been discredited. Sorry I'd like specifics unless the specifics as him being one of the Tramps.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Paul Cummings

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:

Leslie, I would go to youtube type Lois Gibson or go to her website as she staked her career and reputation that the older tramp was Holt. I guess I'm looking for specifics when it comes to the unsubstantiated or where he's been discredited. Sorry I'd like specifics unless the specifics as him being one of the Tramps.

Thanks Paul.  

Fundamentally, the identity of the tramps, regardless of who they were, doesn't advance the investigation to the extent of verifiable identification of those tasked with firing at JFK. At this juncture, subjectively speaking, I think the episode may have been a deliberately staged canard. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Paul Cummings]

1 hour ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Thanks Paul.   A simple google search with relevant terms will turn up the 'specifics' of the debate. Because I'm satisfied Holt's story is somewhat irrelevant at this stage, I'll let others respond if they so fit.

Fundamentally, the identity of the tramps, regardless of who they were, doesn't advance the investigation to the extent of verifiable identification of those tasked with firing at JFK. At this juncture, subjectively speaking, I think the episode may have been a deliberately staged canard. 

It helps fill in the puzzle. 

[Leslie Sharp]

19 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

It helps fill in the puzzle. 

To explain further, once Hank landed the datebook, I started prioritizing the pieces of the puzzle I recognized from decades of research into the MIC.  The tramps didn't surface in Lafitte's records so I found no reason to revisit the incident. Purely subjective, I still don't see how they might shift us off dead center unless it can be established who sent them to Dallas, who instructed them to be arrested, who orchestrated their parade. If those questions have been answered in the past four or five years, I would be intrigued to read a summary. 

[Paul Brancato]

I thinking we might want to revisit the tramps 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

I thinking we might want to revisit the tramps 

 

Paul, this has been discussed in depth in multiple threads on the forum.  As Leslie suggests an objective updated summary would be nice for the benefit of all, including those newer to the subject would be appreciated.  

Maybe the arrest records for starters.  For the sake of Paul Cummings and others, maybe we need to go from a picture of Angleton with a well dressed cowboy to the tramps.  I'm not sure how he relates to them.  But I'm glad people like Paul are interested in the subject.

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Paul, this has been discussed in depth in multiple threads on the forum.  As Leslie suggests an objective updated summary would be nice for the benefit of all, including those newer to the subject would be appreciated.  

Maybe the arrest records for starters.  For the sake of Paul Cummings and others, maybe we need to go from a picture of Angleton with a well dressed cowboy to the tramps.  I'm not sure how he relates to them.  But I'm glad people like Paul are interested in the subject.

I concur @Ron Bulman @Paul Brancato @Paul Cummings but how might revisiting the tramps advance the subject of this particular thread which is Angleton and the Cowboy?

Could a new thread be launched focused on the tramps?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Paul Cummings]

I was responding to Leslie's comment about Chauncey Holt. Not looking to start another thread or interrupt this one. 

[Paul Brancato]

I didn’t mean to derail this thread. It is actually not the tramps themselves (tramps? - not really), or the possible Lansdale, it is the two uniformed cops holding rifles. Were they ever identified? But let’s leave it for now.

[Leslie Sharp]

8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I didn’t mean to derail this thread. It is actually not the tramps themselves (tramps? - not really), or the possible Lansdale, it is the two uniformed cops holding rifles. Were they ever identified? But let’s leave it for now.

Paul, I know where you're going with this, and it's a logical hypothesis, but I hope we take this one bite at a time in a methodical fashion.  Let's identify whether cowboy in the photo is a border patrol officer working directly with Angleton; or possibly Lafitte in disguise; or merely a cowboy bystander?  Blowing too much air in the balloon risks it bursting if you get my drift.

[Leslie Sharp]

11 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

I was responding to Leslie's comment about Chauncey Holt. Not looking to start another thread or interrupt this one. 

I wonder if there is an old thread that could be revived?  As Paul just noted, the uniformed guys with dormant rifles are probably equally if not more significant.

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

I wonder if there is an old thread that could be revived?  As Paul just noted, the uniformed guys with dormant rifles are probably equally if not more significant.

That's been done recently.  There are more threads on the forum on this subject if one looks.  I'll bump the one I refer to separately to keep from gumming this one up anymore.

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:30 AM, Leslie Sharp said:

(courtesy Robert Ward Montenegro)

https://www.jns.org/james-angleton-1917-1987/
 

 

This picture still bugs me.  Angleton hands on hips.  Both with a smirk on their faces.  The cowboy looks like a rancher.  To me more say Arizona than Texas, the string/bolo tie.  Leslie, you mentioned an Arizona license plate in a later post, but I don't see it.  Looked through a magnifying glass.  It's still blurred but I don't see Grand Canyon State or Arizona at the top.

I had a wild thought.  Barry Goldwater?  Nope.

Paul Brancato posted the picture was available in a search for Meir Amit, I didn't find it.  Which means nothing!

It's perplexing.  The article is from the Jewish News Syndicate.  The "Photo is BY the Israel Intelligence Heritage and Commemoration Center."

I guess one of us should contact them, however forthcoming they might be.

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

This picture still bugs me.  Angleton hands on hips.  Both with a smirk on their faces.  The cowboy looks like a rancher.  To me more say Arizona than Texas, the string/bolo tie.  Leslie, you mentioned an Arizona license plate in a later post, but I don't see it.  Looked through a magnifying glass.  It's still blurred but I don't see Grand Canyon State or Arizona at the top.

I had a wild thought.  Barry Goldwater?  Nope.

Paul Brancato posted the picture was available in a search for Meir Amit, I didn't find it.  Which means nothing!

It's perplexing.  The article is from the Jewish News Syndicate.  The "Photo is BY the Israel Intelligence Heritage and Commemoration Center."

I guess one of us should contact them, however forthcoming they might be.

Ron, glad it's bugging you as well.

I sent it to a friend outside Haifi who knew Hank well. I'm confident if cowboy was Amit, or someone known to him within Mossad, he would have advised me.  I'll ask if he'll contact the center.  

Interesting that the photo is available online with a James Angleton search; however those versions don't include the license plate.  It's easy to wonder if someone deliberately resized the photo to exclude it.  

Yes, Grand Canyon State is obvious once you search for standard AZ plates during the 1960s. The fact the plate on the Starliner isn't government issue suggests cowboy might be a friend of or relative of JJA and or his wife, or maybe working undercove. I still lean toward border patrol or law enforcement, not agency specific.

A gun guy pointed out that he doesn't work with his hands. He could own a ranch but not work it.   

[Leslie Sharp]

22 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Paul, I know where you're going with this, and it's a logical hypothesis, but I hope we take this one bite at a time in a methodical fashion.  Let's identify whether cowboy in the photo is a border patrol officer working directly with Angleton; or possibly Lafitte in disguise; or merely a cowboy bystander?  Blowing too much air in the balloon risks it bursting if you get my drift.

@Paul Brancato @Robert Montenegro, you're probably familiar with the photo of the tramps from various angles. I grabbed this one because it captures the uniformed guys, full body, to ask if they fit your understanding of support teams,  "kill squads" or "swamp groups" as referenced in Lafitte's record of Otto's strategy for Lancelot Project?  There must be other photos that better exemplify candidates for those teams who might have been provided a huge cache of rifles when they arrived in Dallas?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/702791629733219/posts/4521681414510869/

(I'll move this content to the recently revived Tramps thread for future discussion. thanks.)