Getting Down to the Nuts and Bolts ... and the question of Cubans in "direct capacities"

[Leslie Sharp]

2 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

I knew Charley Askins and never heard him called Boots. All the contempary  gun writers I've talked to never heard it either. Naming an operation to murder JFK of Camelot fame as "Lancelot" is simply stupid. As I've said before I've had three books published and am currently working three more and none of them have anything to do with JFK. I have no interest in writing such a book and have satisfied myself that elements of JM Wave and anti-Castro Cubans were involved. Met and talked to a Vietnam era sniper who was bought in as unneeded backup and a Green Beret Master Breecher who informed me the car parked by the underpass was full of explosives in case JFK reached that point alive. There was AND is all sorts of "talent" in this country to perform the task and the actual name of the operation was "Black Crows". I find Tipping Point the most credible book.

And I learned as a Homicide copper that confidential informants are never identified. Don't believe me? I really don't care because I'm not trying to entice folks buy my JFK book because there won't be one!

Evan, Are you basing your argument on the nickname "Boots"? Or on the name of the operation Lancelot which btw was Angleton's choice and it is uncertain whether it's reference to Jackie's later invocation of Camelot.

I'm glad you're at least sharing more of your hypothesis to the extent you've identified the "actual name of the operation," Black Crows.

Do you know who ran Black Crows, or why it was named that?

Do you by chance recall the model(s) of pistols Askins favored?

Do those in your circle agree with you that Charlie wasn't in Dallas on November 22?
 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

21 minutes ago, Evan Marshall said:

The anti-Castro Cubans weren't worried about what people thought as long as JFK was publicly murdered

Can you identify those anti-Castro Cubans by name?
 

[David Boylan]

We do know that there was a commando group called the Black Falcons. This was made up of a few familiar names. Some of these guys would go on to join Alpha 66 and later Commandos - L. One of the leaders was AMCHEER-1 - Julio Garcia Garcia. Were any of these guys involved? Possible but not probable.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55556#relPageId=125&search="black_falcons"

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=31691#relPageId=2&search="black_falcons"

[Evan Marshall]

If people involved in this operation were calling Charley a nickname Charly never used, how well did they actually know him? When I knew Charley he preferred Smith revolvers. What names I have, and I only have some-were given to me in confidence and I respect that. 

Like I've said before I only have bit and pieces, but they are enough to convince who was responsible. Since I have absolutely no interest in writing a JFK book, I'm satisfied what I know is enough. And what evidence do you have that Angleton was involved AND that he provided the name?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Evan Marshall

[Leslie Sharp]

12 minutes ago, David Boylan said:

We do know that there was a commando group called the Black Falcons. This was made up of a few familiar names. Some of these guys would go on to join Alpha 66 and later Commandos - L. One of the leaders was AMCHEER-1 - Julio Garcia Garcia. Were any of these guys involved? Possible but not probable.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55556#relPageId=125&search="black_falcons"

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=31691#relPageId=2&search="black_falcons"

Is that "Al  S m I t h"?

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Evan Marshall said:

If people involved in this operation were calling Charley a nickname Charly never used, how well did they actually know him? When I knew Charley he preferred Smith revolvers. What names I have, and I only have some-were given to me in confidence and I respect that. 

Like I've said before I only have bit and pieces, but they are enough to convince who was responsible. Since I have absolutely no interest in writing a JFK book, I'm satisfied what I know is enough.

We aren't saying that Lafitte referenced Askins as "Boots." He did not.

Once we identified Lafitte was referencing skilled marksman Charles Askins who had been posted at the American Embassy in Madrid (at the same time as CIA officer Al Ulmer) when Skorzeny and Ilse "set up shop" in the Spanish capitol with the blessing of Franco himself, the nickname "Boots" surfaced repeatedly in credible source material. There is at least one document from the early '50s that indicates Askins' superiors were inquiring about the Skorzenys' activities.

Holding names close that were given you in confidence is admirable; in a murder investigation is that sufficient justification for protecting the identify of suspects? 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Jonathan Cohen]

43 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Holding names close that were given you in confidence is admirable; in a murder investigation is that sufficient justification for protecting the identify of suspects? 

This is a truly unbelievable rhetorical question by you in light of your numerous "justifications" for who is or is not allowed to study the alleged datebook for themselves...

[Leslie Sharp]

That makes absolutely no sense, Jonathan.

Evan is describing individuals who have admitted their role in the crime but he is protecting their identities.

[Leslie Sharp]

The active roles of Ret. Gen. Edwin A. Walker and Ret. Gen. Charles A. Willoughby in the plot to assassinate President Kennedy in Dallas:

 

Pierre Lafitte datebook, 1963

Walker: 8 references

Willoughby: 11 references

 

 

 

April 7

 

Walker — Lee and pictures —

planned soon —

Can he do it?  Won’t.

 

 

 

April 12

 

Congress meet. — Willby [sic]

soldier kill squads—

 

 

April 30

 

Walker + Souetre in

New Orleans / arms

(Davis) — where?

cable to O.

 

 

 June 5

 

Willoughby + d. Valle

NO. re Madrid

church group meet.

check with Hunt + Vickers

 

 

 

June 12

 

*Paris murder

*Willoughby —— Walker *

 

 

June 18

 

Willoughby meet 8:00 pm

 

 

September 4

 

Hotshot — Walker

(caretaker — T.)

 

 

 

September 12

 

Askins?

 

 

September 13

 

vu je Rudel

 

 

September 14

 

Canon — S + V?  

[possibly Souetre and Varga]

 

 

September 17

 

Spray – gun- 2

Willoughby —

Shaw?

 

NY rest. guide ad.

talk of Ella reg. photographs

X6 Rene will meet

with b…. in NY

at Previews?


October 2

 

Askins — Willoughby- ok.

 

 

October 9

 

OSARN-OSARN-OSARN

OSARN — get Willoughby – Litt

plus Souetre, others (Hungarians)

Lancelot proj — kill teams Dallas.

New York. Tampa. (Labadie_ — T says

called Oswald to purpose — weapons—

Walker. Davis in N.O. with

swamp groups Florida (Decker

Bender. Vickers. KofM) — —
 

October 15

 

Meet with Willoughby at

(Ella R) others — at

49 East 53^rd st.

NYC
 

October 25

 

Call JA Wash. D.C. —

O says — done—

Oswald set in place
Call Walker + others.

 

 

October 26 

 

—W team = E. Johnson(s)

(Itkins)

 

 

 

November 5

 

(Meet with Crichton at

Tech building}

(Walker)

O says Lancelot = go

phone booth

 

 

November 15

 

/Nov 22/

Willoughby back-up

Team squad — Tech

building — booth/bridge

O. says turn them [or turn at Elm]

Silverthorne

Ft. Worth

—Airport

—Mexico.

 

November 21

 

Willoughby team  —  Canon

            (Z org.) D.

                                                                                              s/o

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Leslie Sharp writes:

Quote

Pierre Lafitte datebook, 1963

Walker: 8 references

Willoughby: 11 references 

None of those references will mean anything until the datebook has been authenticated, if that ever happens. 

As Benjamin Cole points out elsewhere, a film company commissioned an examination by experts, after which the company ceased its filming project. The obvious conclusion is that those experts had expressed doubts about the datebook's authenticity. See: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29468-the-pierre-lafitte-datebook-a-fake/?do=findComment&comment=509926.

In another thread, Greg Doudna gave several arguments, so far unanswered, which suggest that the datebook is a fake. Some examples:

Quote

the ink of the 1963 Lafitte datebook entries could not be matched by the analyst to any of the known inks for 1963.

(https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29044-pierre-lafitte-datebook-1963/?do=findComment&comment=509466)

Quote

the handwriting analysis found that the handwritten entries of the Lafitte datebook "were all made by one and the same individual within a constricted timeframe".

(ibid.)

Quote

Prima facie, it appears Lafitte is not the author of the multiple Skorzeny written references in Lafitte's datebook, since the allusions to Skorzeny appear to postdate Lafitte's death.

(https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29044-pierre-lafitte-datebook-1963/?do=findComment&comment=509153)

Given that the datebook appears not to be authentic, and that no-one seems interested in getting it authenticated, any theory that's based on information within the datebook would appear to be worthless.

There is an interesting current discussion of the datebook and the theory that is based on it, at the ROKC forum:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2714-reality-checks

[Leslie Sharp]

12 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Leslie Sharp writes:

None of those references will mean anything until the datebook has been authenticated, if that ever happens. 

As Benjamin Cole points out elsewhere, a film company commissioned an examination by experts, after which the company ceased its filming project. The obvious conclusion is that those experts had expressed doubts about the datebook's authenticity. See: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29468-the-pierre-lafitte-datebook-a-fake/?do=findComment&comment=509926.

In another thread, Greg Doudna gave several arguments, so far unanswered, which suggest that the datebook is a fake. Some examples:

Given that the datebook appears not to be authentic, and that no-one seems interested in getting it authenticated, any theory that's based on information within the datebook would appear to be worthless.

There is an interesting current discussion of the datebook and the theory that is based on it, at the ROKC forum:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2714-reality-checks

Jeremy,
Can you decipher Greg's meaning here?

Prima facie, it appears Lafitte is not the author of the multiple Skorzeny written references in Lafitte's datebook, since the allusions to Skorzeny appear to postdate Lafitte's death.

[Leslie Sharp]

(The following memo regarding Edwin A. Walker has been buried in  FBI files related to the John Birch Society until recently. BOLD emphasis added.)

To: DIRECTOR, FBI

 

From: LEGAT, BONN.  (105-4174)

Subject: EDWIN A. WALKER

               IS - X

Date: 1/14/63

 

REDACTED U.S. Army Europe Intelligence Division Representative in the Embassy furnished the following information which his office had received from the REDACTED information was received under confidential classification on January 8, 1963. REDACTED.

 

A source of the REDACTED described as general reliable, has reported that former U.S. General EDWIN A. WALKER has sent circulars to various European fascists calling for a world wide action against Jewry. In this material WALKER allegedly has named as enemies of national strength Zionism, Freemasonry, the Vatican, the Jesuits, Bolshevism and the Negro.  In addition, according to the source, WALKER allegedly has written personal letters to leading members of the OAS in France, REDACTED of Madrid Spain and REDACTED of Lausanne, Switzerland, in which he summoned these individuals to take part in common action against the common enemy REDACTED.

 

In addition, the REDACTED information which was furnished under the caption "International Neo-Fascism" stated the same generally reliable source had reported that a conference of international fascists is to take place in Malmoe, Sweden, during 1963. This conference reportedly will serve to bring together the views on the Jewish question of REDACTED of Coventry, England, and REDACTED of London.

 

REDACTED asked for any available information on the propaganda activities of WALKER and individuals of West Germany. [It is requested that the bureau furnish any information which it may have on the activities of WALKER which it feels might be appropriately furnished. REDACTED and also advise whether it has any information on contacts between WALKER and individuals in Germany.]
 

REDACTED also stated that it would appreciate any information known regarding contacts between the "John Birch Society" and individuals in West Germany.  It is noted that by its letter of June 27, 1961, to this office regarding the John Birch Society (Bufile 62-104401), the Bureau furnished information on that society for referral REDACTED and advised that it had not information to show any ties existed between the John Birch Society and any international fascist organization.  If the Bureau has received any such information since the date of that letter, it is requested it be provided for referral REDACTED if appropriate. 
 

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, Leslie Sharp said:

(The following memo regarding Edwin A. Walker has been buried in  FBI files related to the John Birch Society until recently. BOLD emphasis added.)

Why are you posting this on two separate threads?

[Guest Doug Campbell]

Why was the Lafitte "flow chart" posted twice as a topic in two different threads in 2 days? Spammers gonna spam.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Doug Campbell

[Jonathan Cohen]

15 minutes ago, Doug Campbell said:

Why was the Lafitte "flow chart" posted twice as a topic in two different threads in 2 days? Spammers gonna spam.

Indeed. The moderators should do something about it.