Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: You have the final word CV. Certainly not. Before long you’ll be back claiming JFK was hit with an under-charged round, Finck lied about his experience, the bullet may have transited, etc etc etc. That’s your shtick. Just don’t expect me to respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 30 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Certainly not. Before long you’ll be back claiming JFK was hit with an under-charged round, Finck lied about his experience, the bullet may have transited, etc etc etc. That’s your shtick. Just don’t expect me to respect it. https://kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Griffith/Dented_shell.html Interesting work on a dent found in one of the three WCC 6.5 cartridges found in the TSBD, post JFKA. A hand-loaded, undercharged bullet? BTW, hand-loading of the WCC 6.5 cartridges "was a thing." Evidently, the copper-jackets were sometime removed and replaced with lead slugs. A gun shop in Dallas was doing that. Maybe LHO (or another party), short on ammo, tried an amateur-hour hand-load. Worth thinking about. Many witnesses say the first shot was different in volume and tone than the following two shots. Interesting. Keep an open mind, and cordial prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Indeed, undercharged bullets are known and have been written about. About the odds, that's like : if it happens to you, the statistics don't mean a thing. But having said that, this doesn't mean I believe it happened to Oswald. 100% correct on keeping an open mind, some people are way too strong : if you're not with me you're against me... no need. IMO they are not expressing an opinion, they are dictating it seems, I try to stay away from those types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: https://kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Griffith/Dented_shell.html Interesting work on a dent found in one of the three WCC 6.5 cartridges found in the TSBD, post JFKA. A hand-loaded, undercharged bullet? BTW, hand-loading of the WCC 6.5 cartridges "was a thing." Evidently, the copper-jackets were sometime removed and replaced with lead slugs. A gun shop in Dallas was doing that. Maybe LHO (or another party), short on ammo, tried an amateur-hour hand-load. Worth thinking about. First shot back shot is not worth thinking about. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Many witnesses say the first shot was different in volume and tone than the following two shots. Interesting. Which has no bearing on Bennett's well-supported account putting the back shot 90 yards from your short load. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: Keep an open mind, and cordial prospects. You have a closed mind in regard to Bennett’s statement, and Kennedy’s clear reaction to a first shot throat shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: Indeed, undercharged bullets are known and have been written about. About the odds, that's like : if it happens to you, the statistics don't mean a thing. But having said that, this doesn't mean I believe it happened to Oswald. 100% correct on keeping an open mind, some people are way too strong : if you're not with me you're against me... no need. It’s not me Ben is against, it’s the contemporaneous account of SSA Glen Bennett he refuses to consider. 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: IMO they are not expressing an opinion, they are dictating it seems, I try to stay away from those types. The types who annoy me are False Mystery naysayers. Everything is cast in the shadow of doubt — even when it’s obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: The types who annoy me are False Mystery naysayers. Everything is cast in the shadow of doubt — even when it’s obvious. When I wrote "I try to stay away from those types", that simply means I will not get in a discussion with them. But "they" certainly don't annoy me, they are entitled to a different opinion. Life's too good to get annoyed by what is expressed on internet these days. Edited November 1, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: Indeed, undercharged bullets are known and have been written about. Indeed. https://www.cryptogon.com/?p=67681 <quote on> Former Secret Service agent, Paul Landis, found the Magic Bullet on the top of the back seat of the limo? Undercharged round??? Mmm hmm. Nealy 60 years after the JFK assassination, we now have Magic Bullet 2.0. Can anyone explain to me how the possibly “undercharged” Magic Bullet 2.0 managed to hit the target at all if the person firing the rifle dialed in DOPE [Data Observed from Previous Engagements?] for a standard velocity round? Not only did the “undercharged” Magic Bullet 2.0 have enough velocity to hit the target using DOPE for a standard round, but it then, “Dislodged from a shallow wound in the president’s back, falling back onto the limousine seat.” If you’re not familiar with shooting high powered rifles, run this scenario past someone who is has and note the response. It will go something like, “No way.” Personal experience: I’ve probably shot something like 15,000 centerfire rifle cartridges in my life, mostly 5.56, 7.62×51 and 7.62×39. Also, some larger stuff, .300 Winmag, .338, etc. How many of those do you think were “Undercharged”? None. Zero. Zilch. I had a few bad primers (under a handful) fail to fire in all of that time. I mostly fired old, cheap military surplus ammo and most of that was not made in the U.S. I don’t think I ever had a U.S. manufactured centerfire rifle round (Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc.) fail to fire. How many “undercharged” centerfire rifle cartridges have you encountered in your decades of shooting? Imagine the odds, on the big day almost 60 years ago… A defective cartridge? Tell me another one. Someone, somewhere might try to sell you on squib loads to explain this. I’m just here to tell you, in over forty years of shooting, it hasn’t happened to me, or any of my friends. (Somewhere on this site you can read about my wife’s cousin trying to kill a pig with a wet .22. That doesn’t count, because first, that’s rimfire, which is less reliable than centerfire and, second, it was wet.) </q> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: When I wrote "I try to stay away from those types", that simply means I will not get in a discussion with them. But "they" certainly don't annoy me, they are entitled to a different opinion. Life's too good to get annoyed by what is expressed on internet these days. People who bash witnesses annoy me. I’m an outlier in this regard — expressions of annoyance are rare on Kennedy assassination boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 45 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Undercharged round??? Mmm hmm. I said it happens, I did not say it happens a lot. I also said : "But having said that, this doesn't mean I believe it happened to Oswald or another shooter". And finally : "if it happens to you, the statistics don't mean a thing". So I can not 100% exclude it. Weird stuff happens, and often I feel the JFKA is full of it. It's exactly those kind of contradictions that keeps people going on and on and on in this case. So, as long as it is not a contradictio in terminis, go ahead and keep expressing you thoughts, I'm fine with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: I said it happens, I did not say it happens a lot. I also said : "But having said that, this doesn't mean I believe it happened to Oswald or another shooter". And finally : "if it happens to you, the statistics don't mean a thing". So I can not 100% exclude it. At 90 yards. Really? Not to mention the soft tissue no-exit wound in the throat — two short loads? Edited October 31, 2023 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I have to quote myself it seems 😇 "But having said that, this doesn't mean I believe it happened to Oswald or another shooter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: I have to quote myself it seems 😇 No, you could address the issues raised. You’re entitled to your opinions, of course, but not to your own facts. Ben posits a short load distance of 50 - 75 yards but Bennett’s corroborated account makes it closer to 90. Surely we can agree on the fact that 50 - 75 ain’t 90? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) deleted Edited November 9, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) deleted Edited November 9, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Murr Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said: And these 2 Hello James: I am familiar with all of the documents you have posted in this thread, and many more, so if/when you have questions, let me know. I did visit the former Century Arms sites - yes, sites because the company did move around - in Vermont in 2018 as part of my research on 6.5mm WCC ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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