Bart Kamp's Lancer presentation

[Alan Ford]

1 minute ago, David Von Pein said:

What would you expect, for Pete sake? It's MY own site.

But this isn't, and your habit of self-servingly editing debates in order to give your reader the fictional impression that your brilliant arguments left your opponent lost for words is not just grossly discourteous to your fellow forum posters but also downright dishonest.

But hey, propagandists gonna propagandize.

[David Von Pein]

4 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

But hey, propagandists gonna propagandize.

And fantasists will always fantasize.

 

[Alan Ford]

1 minute ago, David Von Pein said:

And fantasists will always fantasize.

Indeed------------------Von Pein The Ever Undefeated Debater being your second-favorite fantasy

[James Keane]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:23 AM, Alan Ford said:

Hello, Mr. Keane.

I believe Mr. Oswald was slated to carry out a 'pro-Castro' stunt of some description out front (just off the steps) just after the firing of shots. As I've outlined elsewhere (on the 'Those Front Steps' thread), the Darnell film shows Officer Marrion Baker racing towards a very odd little scene over by the mailboxes---------------

Mr. Oswald IMO thought he was on the hook as a confederate of the Marxists who supposedly had shot Pres. Kennedy.

Cheers Alan! Will check out that front steps thread and read up. I appreciate your explanation!

[Jonathan Cohen]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:23 PM, Alan Ford said:

I believe Mr. Oswald was slated to carry out a 'pro-Castro' stunt of some description out front (just off the steps) just after the firing of shots.

Is that why he deviated from his routine and showed up unannounced and a day early at Ruth Paine's house on Nov. 21?

[Sandy Larsen]

12 hours ago, Alan Ford said:

12 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

What would you expect, for Pete sake? It's MY own site.

12 hours ago, Alan Ford said:

But this isn't, and your habit of self-servingly editing debates in order to give your reader the fictional impression that your brilliant arguments left your opponent lost for words is not just grossly discourteous to your fellow forum posters but also downright dishonest.

 

Not to mention that DVP took that material from the Education Forum without permission. Had I been admin at the time, I would have voted NOT to allow DVP back on the site without his first destroying his copy of the material. Even though I personally like DVP.

 

[Miles Massicotte]

15 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

But Oswald's response to the reporters [in the "I'm Just A Patsy" TV news film] generally matches the alibi that Oswald gave to Dallas Police Captain Will Fritz that same day, with Oswald telling Fritz that he was "having his lunch about that time [of the assassination] on the first floor" (Warren Report; Pg. 600).

DVP, I'm not convinced Oswald was on the steps, I just think that his statement about being in the building, which is frequently brought up, does not necessarily rule that out.

I don't trust Fritz, but I don't see what he had to gain by lying about Oswald's alibi, so I accept that in all likelihood that Oswald told him he was having lunch on the 1st floor about that time.

But, as you must know, Oswald also told Fritz that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front", from Fritz's own notes. When you say: 

15 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Fritz never said that Oswald told him that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front"

I think that is a bit disingenuous, and cherry picking. What makes you so sure about the truth of one and not the other? Considering that you don't believe that Oswald was in either location, what makes you so sure about his 1st floor alibi that Fritz's and Hosty's notes must not accurately represent it? Do you, perhaps, think Fritz and Hosty were dishonest gentlemen?

[Jonathan Cohen]

52 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Had I been admin at the time, I would have NOT allowed DVP back on the site without his destroying his copy of the material first.

Thank goodness you weren't !

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Not to mention that DVP took that material from the Education Forum without permission. Had I been admin at the time, I would have NOT allowed DVP back on the site without his destroying his copy of the material first. Even though I personally like DVP.

 

I seem to remember a discussion on this forum about whether or not David could quote this forum on his site, and I believe he agreed to remove any quotes from a poster who requested he do so. 

P.S. Under the fair use doctrine, no one needs to request permission to quote a forum viewable by the public. The exception, I believe, would be if that person were selling what they quoted, but even that is unclear. What is clear, however, is that David is a member of this forum, and his membership can be contingent on his not quoting fellow members out of context on his website, should that be the case. So... since I'm pretty sure David has previously agreed to remove quotes from fellow members should they ask him to do so...those upset by his quoting them need to ask him to remove the quotes, and they will vanish. 

Is that right, David? 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Sandy Larsen]

25 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

P.S. Under the fair use doctrine, no one needs to request permission to quote a forum viewable by the public.

 

The wholesale copying of material, as was done by DVP, is not permitted by the fair use doctrine.

If anybody is aware of DVP continuing this practice, please contact me and I will bring the matter before the admin team.

 

[Pat Speer]

47 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The wholesale copying of material, as was done by DVP, is not permitted by the fair use doctrine.

If anybody is aware of DVP continuing this practice, please contact me and I will bring the matter before the admin team.

 

What do you mean by "wholesale"? Because the quoting of a few paragraphs is most certainly allowed, if it is presented to present a response or make a point. You can't just present the pdf to a whole book and call it fair use, to my understanding (no matter what some CTs believe), but quoting an exchange of ideas on a forum available to the public is allowed. I mean, when's the last time you took a look at Buzzfeed? You will find dozens of posts taken from Reddit or other public forums, and published in articles with obnoxious titles such as the "20 of the stupidest things Americans believe" or some such thing. Now, it's true these articles blank out the names of those involved, but they don't edit the content or ask anyone's permission to repeat what these people have said...publicly. So...if you dislike what David has written you can ask him to remove it, or ask he black out your name. But you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking he's broken any laws, because he has not. 

[Marcus Fuller]

I'm trying to work out if people are actually trying to make a distinction between 'in the building', as in behind the glass doors and 'on the steps'. As if to suggest that if Oswald was on the steps, he wasn't in the building he worked at. There's sense in discussing the details but is there really any need for that level of pedantry? 

[David Von Pein]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Not to mention that DVP took that material from the Education Forum without permission.

No permission was required prior to Aug. 2019 (which is when James Gordon decided to add a new rule to the EF rulebook so that he could find a "legal" [sort of] excuse to kick me out the door, which he did).

So Sandy's comment above does not apply, and is not a fair comment.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

6 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I seem to remember a discussion on this forum about whether or not David could quote this forum on his site, and I believe he agreed to remove any quotes from a poster who requested he do so. 

Incorrect. I never agreed to any such thing.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

So... since I'm pretty sure David has previously agreed to remove quotes from fellow members should they ask him to do so...those upset by his quoting them need to ask him to remove the quotes, and they will vanish. 

Is that right, David? 

No, that's not right, Pat. I never agreed to remove anything from my site at any time. Because, in my opinion, I have done nothing wrong at all by merely re-posting Education Forum material that is already public to my own website.

And BTW, let me also add this important point....

Prior to late August of 2019, nobody at this forum gave a damn about the fact that I was copying some of their posts to my site (even though most EF members positively knew that I was doing it---because I had told them several times in many pre-2019 posts that I was doing it).

It wasn't until late 2019 that anyone gave two hoots about what I was doing at my own site. It was only at that time then, in August of 2019, for some reason, that I became a law-breaking criminal and a member of the Ten Most Wanted, even though I had broken no laws (and had broken no "EF rules" either at that time prior to August 2019, because forum owner James R. Gordon had not even placed on the EF books the new "Do Not Copy Posts Without Permission" rule until approximately 9 hours after he had booted me off the forum).

Go figure the fickleness of Internet CTers. I sure can't.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by David Von Pein