Bart Kamp's Lancer presentation

[Jonathan Cohen]

8 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

He obviously thought the question was, were you in the building that day. Or maybe during the motorcade.

This is "obvious" only to you, who likes to make sweeping conclusions based on nothing more than your own personal opinions.

[Alan Ford]

7 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

 

Reporter: "Were you in that building at the time?"

Oswald: "Naturally if I work in that building, yes sir."

 

~Yawn~

The enclosed, roofed, raised front entrance belonged to the building, which was his place of work.

Mr. Oswald likely exploited the ambiguity of 'in the building' because he didn't want to talk in public about the fact that he had gone out front--------------as he understood it, his having done so, and what he did immediately after the shooting, was the prime reason he was in deep trouble.

Now........................ Do let us know, Mr. Brown, when you feel ready to deal with this without hand-waving deflection:

👍

 

 

[Pat Speer]

5 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Yes, Mr. Brown, a bombshell that blows up the shameless distortions in the official interrogation reports:

Perhaps you're just jealous of Mr. Kamp because, in unearthing this document, he did what you have never done and in all likelihood never will do-----------------he made a material contribution to our understanding of the case.

Can you tell us when Oswald went outside to watch the parade? Because Hosty doesn't say...

And can you tell us why you believe your interpretation of Hosty's draft of a report is accurate and all the finished reports and testimony of everyone involved, including Hosty, is inaccurate? 

Yes, I know. Because you think it PROVES Oswald was outside at the time of the shooting...something he never said. As Bill pointed out, moreover, Oswald was asked a question which should have elicited him saying he was outside at the time of the shooting, should he have actually been outside. But he said no such thing.

Now, the big one. Is it a coincidence that 1) no photographs show Oswald to be outside at the time of the shooting, 2) no one recalled Oswald being outside at that time, and 3) he failed to say anything to anyone in his family, or even to the press, indicating he was outside at that time?

The rational deduction is that he wasn't outside. 

 

[Alan Ford]

1 minute ago, Pat Speer said:

Can you tell us when Oswald went outside to watch the parade? Because Hosty doesn't say...

Because there's no need: if he went outside to watch the P. Parade, then he obviously went outside at such a time that would enable him to watch the P. Parade.

[Alan Ford]

3 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

And can you tell us why you believe your interpretation of Hosty's draft of a report is accurate and all the finished reports and testimony of everyone involved, including Hosty, is inaccurate? 

No need to 'interpret' the words, 'Then went outside to watch P. Parade". They're self-explanatory------------unless one desperately wants them to mean something other than what they so obviously mean.

The Hosty draft report, when compared with the official interrogation reports, exposes exactly how the fix was put in:

---------------PRE-PARADE visit to lunchroom for Coke becomes POST-PARADE visit

---------------PRE-PARADE eating of lunch on first floor becomes POST-PARADE eating of lunch

---------------Going outside TO WATCH P. PARADE becomes going outside MINUTES AFTER THE SHOOTING

All this was deduced a decade ago on this very forum. And then, in 2019 the deduction received stunning confirmation. If you wish to remain in denial on this, Mr. Speer, that's not my problem.

[Alan Ford]

7 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

As Bill pointed out, moreover, Oswald was asked a question which should have elicited him saying he was outside at the time of the shooting, should he have actually been outside. But he said no such thing.

Already explained, multiple times:

Mr. Oswald thought he was on the hook for something other than firing shots from the sixth floor. That something included his immediate post-assassination actions.

He had no idea his having gone out front was an alibi he needed to scream to the world.

[Sandy Larsen]

23 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

32 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

He obviously thought the question was, were you in the building that day. Or maybe during the motorcade.

This is "obvious" only to you, who likes to make sweeping conclusions based on nothing more than your own personal opinions.

 

Huh? Nothing more than my personal opinion?

 

 

[Alan Ford]

10 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Now, the big one. Is it a coincidence that 1) no photographs show Oswald to be outside at the time of the shooting, 2) no one recalled Oswald being outside at that time, and 3) he failed to say anything to anyone in his family, or even to the press, indicating he was outside at that time?

Re. 1)

I find your blind-faith position that the 'investigating' authorities would have been too squeamish to mess with any visual evidence proving Mr. Oswald's front-entrance alibi risibly naive.

Re. 2)

No one recalled (at least on the record) Mr. Oswald's leaving by the front door several minutes after the assassination, yet you believe he did so, yes?

Re. 3)

Already explained.

[Alan Ford]

38 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

You guys are placing way too much significance on that snap answer of Oswald's. He obviously thought the question was, were you in the building that day. Or maybe during the motorcade. And Oswald's sarcastically-delivered answer was, naturally he was... given that he works there! (It was a "duh!" answer.)

 

I think it may have the deepest significance, Mr. Larsen, for the insight it offers into Mr. Oswald's understanding of why he was in such trouble. Capt. Fritz played him, but good.

[Marcus Fuller]

I wonder if the bottle and bag placed on the side of the steps was the remains of Bonnie Ray Williams' lunch brought out by Detective Marvin Johnson 

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Alan Ford said:

Because there's no need: if he went outside to watch the P. Parade, then he obviously went outside at such a time that would enable him to watch the P. Parade.

Not at all. We have what Oswald said, what Hosty heard, what Hosty later remembered, what Hosty wrote down, and then your interpretation of what he wrote down. 

Oswald could very well have said he went outside after the shooting, and Fritz may very well have asked a follow-up like out the front or out the back. To which Oswald said I wanted to see what was going on in the parade, so I went out front. We just don't know. We will never know. But the assumption Oswald told Fritz and Hosty he was outside DURING the shooting, and then never told anyone else, is really out there. It's desperate, IMO.  

I mean, think about it. The man knows his life is in danger. He's announced he's innocent. And he has been given a venue to speak to the public. So it only makes sense that he'd take advantage of the press circus and announce, whether in the hallway, or at the press conference, that he was actually outside at the time the shots were fired. He might then ask that anyone who could confirm he was outside at that time come forward.

That he did not is troublesome, yes?

Edited December 8, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Alan Ford]

1 minute ago, Pat Speer said:

Not at all. We have what Oswald said, what Hosty heard, what Hosty later remembered, what Hosty wrote down, and then your interpretation of what he wrote down. 

Oswald could very well have said he went outside after the shooting, and Fritz may very well have asked a follow-up like out the front or out the back. To which Oswald said I wanted to see what was going on in the parade, so I went out front. We just don't know. We will never know. But the assumption Oswald told Fritz and Hosty he was outside DURING the shooting, and then never told anyone else, is really out there. It's desperate, IMO.  

Good grief!

Agent Hosty clearly states what he heard Mr. Oswald state:

Clear sequence of events, written in situ, on the back of DPD affidavit paper, in the clearest of clear prose.

1. Mr. Oswald went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola => Mr. Oswald got Coca Cola on 2nd floor

2. Mr. Oswald returned to 1st floor to eat lunch => Mr. Oswald ate lunch on 1st floor

3. Mr. Oswald then went outside to watch P. Parade => Mr. Oswald watched P. Parade.

Not complicated! And it explains at a stroke the glaring anomalies between, and the weasel language in, the official interrogation reports. 

The idea that an FBI Agent would drastically misunderstand what the suspect said about the single most important question----------his whereabouts at the time of the crime of which he stands accused----------is fanciful in the extreme.

But hey, gaslight away. Party like it's 2018. All you're establishing is that you have a curious blind spot when it comes to the LHO Out Front question.

[Alan Ford]

20 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

 I mean, think about it. The man knows his life is in danger. He's announced he's innocent. And he has been given a venue to speak to the public. So it only makes sense that he'd take advantage of the press circus and announce, whether in the hallway, or at the press conference, that he was actually outside at the time the shots were fired. He might then ask that anyone who could confirm he was outside at that time.and then ask that anyone who saw him outside come forward.

That he did neither of these things is troublesome, yes?

Already addressed a few posts back, Mr. Speer. Let me know if you have a rebuttal.

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Marcus Fuller said:

I wonder if the bottle and bag placed on the side of the steps was the remains of Bonnie Ray Williams' lunch brought out by Detective Marvin Johnson 

These were photographed in situ on the sixth floor. It is interesting, however, that Williams ate chicken with his drink and would undoubtedly have left greasy fingerprints on the bottle. And yet, huh, there is no DPD report noting these prints. Well, this suggests they threw out the report along with the items once they realized they contained someone besides Oswald's prints. (FWIW, these aren't the only prints that disappeared.)

[James Keane]

2 hours ago, Alan Ford said:

Already explained, multiple times:

Mr. Oswald thought he was on the hook for something other than firing shots from the sixth floor. That something included his immediate post-assassination actions.

He had no idea his having gone out front was an alibi he needed to scream to the world.

Alan, I’m intrigued by your second paragraph here. What did Oswald think he was on the hook for other than firing shots?