Anyone have a time estimate for the Robert Edwards escort?

[Tony Krome]

Assuming Aylea is filming from the 5th floor, and has just recently ran into the building. Trying to work out what time, and if Robert Edwards was attempting to relay information to authorities at the steps of the TSBD before being escorted away.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Donald Willis]

Very curious.  I was just posting that Edwards & Fischer left Dealey early.  But Edwards apparently did not.  But the two did make out affidavits that weekend.  It could be he's being escorted to the sheriff's to do that affidavit.

[Tony Krome]

7 hours ago, Donald Willis said:

It could be he's being escorted to the sheriff's to do that affidavit.

Yes, it appears that is exactly what is happening. Robert Edwards is being escorted from the direction of the steps of the TSBD to the where he made out the affidavit at the Sheriff's Dept.

Now, I don't know if any other witnesses were guided by the arm from Dealey, but this is the case here.

We know what he witnessed in the Sniper's Nest, so I imagine he was on the steps of the TSBD verbalising to some authoritive person, that the exact place they might want to check out immediately, is that particular area.

So the idea here is to work out what time the Edwards Alyea footage, and the simultaneous Edwards photo, occurred. 

[Alan Ford]

30 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Now, I don't know if any other witnesses were guided by the arm from Dealey, but this is the case here.

Mr. Krome, would you happen to know on what firm basis the identification of this man as Mr. Edwards has been made by researchers?

[Pat Speer]

28 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Yes, it appears that is exactly what is happening. Robert Edwards is being escorted from the direction of the steps of the TSBD to the where he made out the affidavit at the Sheriff's Dept.

Now, I don't know if any other witnesses were guided by the arm from Dealey, but this is the case here.

We know what he witnessed in the Sniper's Nest, so I imagine he was on the steps of the TSBD verbalising to some authoritive person, that the exact place they might want to check out immediately, is that particular area.

So the idea here is to work out what time the Edwards Alyea footage, and the simultaneous Edwards photo, occurred. 

When creating my database of witness statements, I realized that there was a jailer, I.C. Todd, who ran over from the jail to the knoll after the shooting, and then stayed outside the depository for awhile before returning to the jail. This led me to believe he is the man with Edwards, and that he is escorting him over to the jail to give a statement. Unfortunately, Todd makes no mention of corralling any witnesses as he returned to the jail. He does mention being outside the depository when someone yelled down from an upper floor about finding three bullets, however, and this suggests he was outside the TSBD around 12:50. So if I had to guess I'd place that footage around 12:50. 

[Pat Speer]

11 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Mr. Krome, would you happen to know on what firm basis the identification of this man as Mr. Edwards has been made by researchers?

Here's a photo of Fischer and Edwards being questioned at the Sheriff's Dept., while Charles Brehm waits his turn. 

 

[Tony Krome]

28 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

jailer, I.C. Todd

Isaac C, Todd Jr. Sheriff Dept.

5060 Corrigan Ct. Dallas.

Wife in 1961: Betty

Is this what you refer to, Pat?;

 

 

 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

Unfortunately, Todd makes no mention of corralling any witnesses as he returned to the jail. He does mention being outside the depository when someone yelled down from an upper floor about finding three bullets, however, and this suggests he was outside the TSBD around 12:50. So if I had to guess I'd place that footage around 12:50. 

Got it, thanks!

[Alan Ford]

7 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Here's a photo of Fischer and Edwards being questioned at the Sheriff's Dept., while Charles Brehm waits his turn. 

 

Thank you, Mr. Speer!

The above photo tallies nicely with Det. F. M. Turner's report.

[Tony Krome]

 

Gerry Hill below;

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Donald Willis]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

As I. C. Todd is escorting Robert Edwards away from the steps of the TSBD, Todd could hear someone "holler from next to the top floor, saying they he found three hulls"

Gerry Hill below;

Hill, however, was the *second* man to holler from upstairs.  Mooney was the first, at about 12:59, though there seem to be no photos of him hollering.  

[Donald Willis]

The time of the Allen photo was taken has to be about 12:59, right?  If,  that is, it signals the discovery of the hulls.  (But see also below.) Trask timed the photo of Hill at 1:05, but he also wrote that Hill opened the window himself (Trask p523).  Hill doesn't testify that he opened the window, however, so all bets are off there.  If there was any hollering about 12:50, that has to be a *third* holler, or the first, chronologically.  If there was, then that was for the (independent) discovery of the "nest", not the shells, which as I noted, happened about 10 minutes later.  That would be pretty significant, I think.   Can't have the shells discovered a good 8 minutes after the "nest"!  Mooney always said that he found the shells almost immediately after finding the "nest"... 

[Donald Willis]

16 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

When creating my database of witness statements, I realized that there was a jailer, I.C. Todd, who ran over from the jail to the knoll after the shooting, and then stayed outside the depository for awhile before returning to the jail. This led me to believe he is the man with Edwards, and that he is escorting him over to the jail to give a statement. Unfortunately, Todd makes no mention of corralling any witnesses as he returned to the jail. He does mention being outside the depository when someone yelled down from an upper floor about finding three bullets, however, and this suggests he was outside the TSBD around 12:50. So if I had to guess I'd place that footage around 12:50. 

If the man had on a suit, and mentioned three bullets, then that had to be Sgt. Hill, about 1:13 or 1:15, after (Hill testified) Lt. Day arrived at the front of the building.  The shells were found about 12:58.

[Donald Willis]

49 minutes ago, Donald Willis said:

If the man had on a suit, and mentioned three bullets, , AND WAS ON THE 'NEXT TO TOP FLOOR", then that had to be Sgt. Hill, about 1:13 or 1:15, after (Hill testified) Lt. Day arrived at the front of the building.  The shells were found about 12:58.

CAPS MATERIAL, ABOVE, ADDED JUST NOW

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Donald Willis said:

If the man had on a suit, and mentioned three bullets, then that had to be Sgt. Hill, about 1:13 or 1:15, after (Hill testified) Lt. Day arrived at the front of the building.  The shells were found about 12:58.

I think you are correct about the man in the brown suit being Hill. From re-reading all the TSBD-related statements and testimony a few years back, I came to realize that no one on the street heard or paid much attention to Mooney. He yelled down to Fritz, and saw Fritz come into the building, and thought Fritz was coming right up. But Fritz and his assistants stopped off at floor after floor as they went up. In any event, it appears there was a substantial delay between Mooney's finding the sniper's nest and Fritz and his assistants coming over.