Anyone have a time estimate for the Robert Edwards escort?

[Donald Willis]

28 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I think you are correct about the man in the brown suit being Hill. From re-reading all the TSBD-related statements and testimony a few years back, I came to realize that no one on the street heard or paid much attention to Mooney. He yelled down to Fritz, and saw Fritz come into the building, and thought Fritz was coming right up. But Fritz and his assistants stopped off at floor after floor as they went up. In any event, it appears there was a substantial delay between Mooney's finding the sniper's nest and Fritz and his assistants coming over. 

Sgt. Harkness, down below, paid close attention to Mooney, at 12:59.  He immediately notified the Crime Lab, and, as Lt. Day testified, he, in turn, immediately left for the depository, just before 1pm.  (Harkness' call is on the DPD radio logs circa 12:59.)  And Chief Deputy Sheriff Allan Sweatt noted, in his report that weekend, that he saw & heard Mooney shout out from the "fifth floor".  Perhaps that "fifth floor" is why we don't have pix of Mooney's shout...

[Tony Krome]

post to be updated

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Tony Krome]

post to be updated

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Donald Willis said:

Sgt. Harkness, down below, paid close attention to Mooney, at 12:59.  He immediately notified the Crime Lab, and, as Lt. Day testified, he, in turn, immediately left for the depository, just before 1pm.  (Harkness' call is on the DPD radio logs circa 12:59.)  And Chief Deputy Sheriff Allan Sweatt noted, in his report that weekend, that he saw & heard Mooney shout out from the "fifth floor".  Perhaps that "fifth floor" is why we don't have pix of Mooney's shout...

I suspect you are correct about Mooney being heard by most everyone but Fritz. I think we can suspect Allen heard Mooney as well, as he took a picture of the building from the street before Hill opened the second window from the east on the sixth floor and yelled down. One of my "discoveries" is that this photo showed McCurley, who is reported to have come right over after Mooney found the shells, standing in back of the window. 

 

[Tony Krome]

20 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

This led me to believe he is the man with Edwards, and that he is escorting him over to the jail to give a statement.

Taking everything into consideration in this thread, it appears now that Robert Edwards was near the steps of the TSBD, and that he was escorted away simultaneously with the discovery of the SN. This may indicate that Edwards disclosed information at the steps, just minutes before the SN was discovered. Thoughts?

[Pat Speer]

11 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Taking everything into consideration in this thread, it appears now that Robert Edwards was near the steps of the TSBD, and that he was escorted away simultaneously with the discovery of the SN. This may indicate that Edwards disclosed information at the steps, just minutes before the SN was discovered. Thoughts?

This makes a lot of sense in retrospect. Edwards and Fischer said they saw someone in a window, but the cops at least initially thought the shots came from the knoll. After finding the sniper's nest, however, the cops would have been like "Okay, let's get these guys over to the office and get a statement."

[Tony Krome]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:57 AM, Pat Speer said:

This makes a lot of sense in retrospect. Edwards and Fischer said they saw someone in a window, but the cops at least initially thought the shots came from the knoll. After finding the sniper's nest, however, the cops would have been like "Okay, let's get these guys over to the office and get a statement."

Let's bring Alyea into it. He describes seeing Fritz on the 6th floor within "one minute and a half" after filming from the 5th Floor window.

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Pat Speer]

27 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Let's bring Alyea into it. He describes seeing Fritz on the 6th floor within "one minute and a half" after filming from the 5th Floor window.

Could Fritz have heard Robert Edwards at the steps of the TSBD, and Fritz then instructed I. C. Todd, to escort this man Edwards to the Sheriff Dept for a statement, before Fritz went to the 6th?

My recollection is that Fritz took his time before reaching the sixth. I think Mooney yelled down before 1:00, and that Harkness then made a call to the crime lab. I suspect some time passed before Hill went upstairs and yelled back down again, which alerted Todd and others to get witnesses claiming to see a man in the sniper's nest over to the Sheriff's office. Fritz and his assistants, who were at that time close to the sixth (I think Fritz said he was in the stairwell when he heard about the sniper's nest) then ambled over to the sniper's nest. When re-reading all this stuff a few years back, I couldn't understand why Sims (who was with Fritz) claimed the sniper's nest was discovered around 1:15. From reading all the statements I realized that Fritz and Sims were responding to Hill, and that they hadn't heard Mooney yelling down to them as they entered the building around 1:00. 

[Tony Krome]

8 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

My recollection is that Fritz took his time before reaching the sixth. I think Mooney yelled down before 1:00, and that Harkness then made a call to the crime lab. I suspect some time passed before Hill went upstairs and yelled back down again, which alerted Todd and others to get witnesses claiming to see a man in the sniper's nest over to the Sheriff's office. Fritz and his assistants, who were at that time close to the sixth (I think Fritz said he was in the stairwell when he heard about the sniper's nest) then ambled over to the sniper's nest. When re-reading all this stuff a few years back, I couldn't understand why Sims (who was with Fritz) claimed the sniper's nest was discovered around 1:15. From reading all the statements I realized that Fritz and Sims were responding to Hill, and that they hadn't heard Mooney yelling down to them as they entered the building around 1:00. 

Working on the Fritz statement of Alyea, which can be seen at 1:17:45;

https://www.c-span.org/video/?52504-1/journalists-remember-jfk-assassination

Mooney hollers out of the 6th Floor window and sees Fritz and Decker below.

You have Fritz taking his time to reach the 6th after Mooney and Hill have hollered.

So when Alyea filmed Edwards, this was after both Mooney and Hill have hollered. Correct?

 

 

[Donald Willis]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I suspect you are correct about Mooney being heard by most everyone but Fritz. I think we can suspect Allen heard Mooney as well, as he took a picture of the building from the street before Hill opened the second window from the east on the sixth floor and yelled down. One of my "discoveries" is that this photo showed McCurley, who is reported to have come right over after Mooney found the shells, standing in back of the window. 

 

Is there any way we can see this picture?  McCurley was one of three fellow deputies that Mooney mentioned in his testimony, along with a Webster and a Vickery (or Victory, I've seen it elsewhere).

[Pat Speer]

8 hours ago, Donald Willis said:

Is there any way we can see this picture?  McCurley was one of three fellow deputies that Mooney mentioned in his testimony, along with a Webster and a Vickery (or Victory, I've seen it elsewhere).

It's on my website in chapter 4c, here: 

I added it to my post but then removed it after being told I was over my allowance or some such thing. But now it shows up. Curious. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Pat Speer

[Donald Willis]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:23 PM, Alan Ford said:

Still doesn't have to be either/both of those two men. There were many officers in the area at this time. It could e.g. have been officers who had spoken with Mr. Ronald Fischer and/or Mr. Bob Edwards. All Insp. Sawyer is saying is he recalls some talk of shots from the fifth floor.

 

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

It's on my website in chapter 4c, here: 

I added it to my post but then removed it after being told I was over my allowance or some such thing. But now it shows up. Curious. 

Curiouser:  Google says that it's Forbidden.  

[Tony Krome]

post to be updated

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Donald Willis]

23 hours ago, Donald Willis said:

Is there any way we can see this picture?  McCurley was one of three fellow deputies that Mooney mentioned in his testimony, along with a Webster and a Vickery (or Victory, I've seen it elsewhere).

 

On 12/2/2023 at 2:09 PM, Pat Speer said:

I suspect you are correct about Mooney being heard by most everyone but Fritz. I think we can suspect Allen heard Mooney as well, as he took a picture of the building from the street before Hill opened the second window from the east on the sixth floor and yelled down. One of my "discoveries" is that this photo showed McCurley, who is reported to have come right over after Mooney found the shells, standing in back of the window. 

 

(I think that it was Bud (on alt.con.jfk) who corrected me when I, too, said that Hill opened the window.  I took my cue from Trask's book, but re-reading Hill's testimony, he does not in fact say that he opened the window.)

A fascinating photo (the Allen).  But what window is it?  The closest I can find that approximates it is the east window of the third double window from the east end on the 5th floor.  Another question:  How do we know that the Allen was taken before the Hill window was opened?  Signed, Confused... A great find, whatever window it is.  Another piece of the puzzle...

[Pat Speer]

29 minutes ago, Donald Willis said:

 

(I think that it was Bud (on alt.con.jfk) who corrected me when I, too, said that Hill opened the window.  I took my cue from Trask's book, but re-reading Hill's testimony, he does not in fact say that he opened the window.)

A fascinating photo (the Allen).  But what window is it?  The closest I can find that approximates it is the east window of the third double window from the east end on the 5th floor.  Another question:  How do we know that the Allen was taken before the Hill window was opened?  Signed, Confused... A great find, whatever window it is.  Another piece of the puzzle...

I think I cropped that from a much large photo. It's the sniper's nest window. I'm assuming we can't see the window box because of the angle, but am open-minded if someone wants to try to re-create Allen's photo and prove the box should have been visible. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Pat Speer