Mary Mintz and Lee Oswald in Minsk

[Paula Botan]

I wonder what everyone thinks about Ernst Titovets' information about that "other" American living in Minsk at the same time as Lee Oswald, Mary Mintz. I was quite surprised when his book, Oswald: Russian Episode finally came out and there was no mention or debate on the JFK forums about this woman or her odd reaction to Oswald. I was always under the impression that Oswald was the only American living in Minsk at the time and have never found any reference to her in any of the other JFK literature. Am I the only one who finds that strange? Does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

(Fun fact: I helped Ernst out with the book and appear in the acknowledgments.)

[James DiEugenio]

Can you talk about this some more?

DId Ernest know her also?

I seem to have forgotten about her.

[Paula Botan]

Mary was a defector if I recall correctly in the 1930s. A Jewish New York radical and a graduate of Hunter College. She was married twice and had two sons. She passed away in the 1990s and is buried in MInsk.

She was teaching out there in MInsk at the time Oswald was there and Erich apparently was receiving English lessons from her. What was interesting to me is that he said she routinely would invite visiting Americans to her apartment to chat and socialize, but apparently Oswald was the one exception. She absolutely refused to meet him. Why? What did she know or suspect? He told me she had a sister and a best friend who lived in New York that she wrote to so I thought that Angleton must have been intercepting her letters as well. I talked to Jim Lesar many years ago and asked if any CIA records on Mary might fall under the JFK Records Act but he said that while they might, litigation with the agency is very expensive and the agency always wins. I ran this by Erich at the time but he thought she would have been too smart to have written anything about Oswald to her connections in New York. It remains very intriguing to me though. What do you think?

[James DiEugenio]

Who was Erich?  One of her sons?

And why do you think she refused to meet Oswald?

[Paula Botan]

Erich is Ernst. Sorry if I was unclear. I don't know why she refused to meet him other than that she may have suspected he was a spy.

 

[Joe Bauer]

I too find this "Mary Mintz In Minsk" story very intriguing. 

And whimsical song title mellifluous as well.

Try saying "Mary Mintz In Minsk" 5 times quickly without getting tongue tied.

Seriously...the fact that she would not know of or ever meet or want to meet this well known American defector ( 2 to 3 year residency? ) in her own city is totally illogical.

Edited February 3 by Joe Bauer

[Paula Botan]

2 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I too find this "Mary Mintz In Minsk" story very intriguing. 

And whimsical song title mellifluous as well.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Greg Doudna]

I just looked up all the Mary Mintz references in Titovet’s book, and see where Mary Mintz had obviously heard about Oswald (though he had never met her), and did not want to meet him when Ernst offered. 

My interpretation: she is a fully assimilated happy settled emigrant in Minsk since the 1930’s, has her family and life there. She has heard of Oswald, the American rumored to be a little strange as in possible suspected spy, she does not want unwelcome attention from the authorities on her if she were to become friendly with him. That is my interpretation of her out-of-character standoffishness. Not that she has any actual knowledge he is a spy, just the rumor that the authorities could suspect it would be enough for her not to wish to bring unnecessary possible trouble on herself and her family by an association. 

[Paula Botan]

19 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

I just looked up all the Mary Mintz references in Titovet’s book, and see where Mary Mintz had obviously heard about Oswald (though he had never met her), and did not want to meet him when Ernst offered. 

My interpretation: she is a fully assimilated happy settled emigrant in Minsk since the 1930’s, has her family and life there. She has heard of Oswald, the American rumored to be a little strange as in possible suspected spy, she does not want unwelcome attention from the authorities on her if she were to become friendly with him. That is my interpretation of her out-of-character standoffishness. Not that she has any actual knowledge he is a spy, just the rumor that the authorities could suspect it would be enough for her not to wish to bring unnecessary possible trouble on herself and her family by an association. 

I agree that this is a mostly rational explanation for her reluctance but what to make of the fact that she ROUTINELY entertains visiting Americans any or all of whom might be suspect to the authorities?

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Paula Botan said:

I agree that this is a mostly rational explanation for her reluctance but what to make of the fact that she ROUTINELY entertains visiting Americans any or all of whom might be suspect to the authorities?

Exactly. Great point. Rational question.

 

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Paula Botan said:

I agree that this is a mostly rational explanation for her reluctance but what to make of the fact that she ROUTINELY entertains visiting Americans any or all of whom might be suspect to the authorities?

Good question. Only thing I can think of was she somehow learned Lee was under special scrutiny or surveilled, or conceivably she herself had been asked if she would inform on him and had not wished to do so or declined. If she believed any contact would be followed by a visit from the friendly local neighborhood KGB equivalent (whatever its name was) seeking to debrief her re Oswald, she might try to steer clear of that by not willingly meeting with him to begin with. I don’t know, just guessing. 

[Paula Botan]

19 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Good question. Only thing I can think of was she somehow learned Lee was under special scrutiny or surveilled, or conceivably she herself had been asked if she would inform on him and had not wished to do so or declined. If she believed any contact would be followed by a visit from the friendly local neighborhood KGB equivalent (whatever its name was) seeking to debrief her re Oswald, she might try to steer clear of that by not willingly meeting with him to begin with. I don’t know, just guessing. 

I think your first suggestion, that she somehow learned he was under special scrutiny is plausible. I do know at this point her English instruction lessons were being given exclusively to Minsk VIPs who certainly may have let something slip in her presence. Your latter suggestion however is naive at best. From what Ernst told me, opting out of this sort of forced surveillance was not a luxury anyone had. And additionally, from what Ernst told me, Mary had been fired from The Foreign Language Institute in Minsk where she worked during Stalin's reign under the phony pretense that her Russian wasn't adequate to teach the students. Yet later on apparently it was perfectly adequate to teach the Minsk elite! What would she have done had she lost that too?

It does seem very strange that the KGB (as far as we know) never forced her hand and made her meet with Oswald. If they thought his Russian was never very adequate or that he was holding something back, might he have been more loose tongued around a fellow American? 

Any thoughts?

[Greg Doudna]

Interesting Paula. Without knowing any better, it just sounds like from her high-level Party or intelligence English-tutoring clients she may have heard about Oswald (natural topic for conversation, how could it not come up, right?). They probably like Mary on a personal level, she tells them she hasn't met him but if she does she will let them know. But she really does not want anything to do with it so discourages Ernst's offer to introduce them. You ask why she was not more proactively enlisted to befriend Oswald and see if he would open up to her... maybe because it would look too transparent to Oswald and if he was a spy he would be unlikely to open up like that? And they had him heavily surveilled already.

Ernst Titovets, who knew Oswald closely, just like two others who knew Oswald closely, George de Mohrenschildt and Buell Wesley Frazier ... each of these, against the grain of common thinking, and suffering negative consequences as a result, but simply saying so because it is what they think to be true, say the Oswald they knew was no killer, and would not have killed President Kennedy. Each of these said this and stuck to this after having seen and heard all the major and familiar points of evidence of the case.  

In rereading the preface to the third edition (2020), the one I have, of Oswald: Russian Episode, I see your name and am struck anew at how accidental and unlikely some book publications are, juxtaposed to the unforeseen and unknowable effect some books have, not necessarily immediately, that do see the light of day, so difficult to foresee in advance. Titovets writes:

"My first literary agent, A***** L***** [name is published in Titovets] of the A***** L***** Literary Agency Ltd in London, demonstrated high interest in my book. After he had received the script, he kept it for a long time without any discernible progress. When I finally saw him at his office in London, he, without any explanations, said that the book had better be rewritten by a ghostwriter. I said, 'No way.' We parted.

"M****** A***** [name is published in Titovets] of Johnson and A***** Ltd. in London was equally enthusiastic to get the script. Again, there followed a period of an unaccounted-for procrastination. Finally, he informed me of the opinion of an anonymous reviewer, who found nothing new in my book. [!--gd] There came a suggestion to include some material from the then-recently declassified JFK files. I saw no point in inflating my book with information peripheral to my first-hand account. That meant the end of our cooperation. To sum it up, the two literary agents delayed publication of Oswald: Russian Episode by at least ten years.

"Eventually, Oswald: Russian Episode, edited by Paula Botan, was published by MonLitera in Belarus.

"In 2013, as the book's author and as a person who closely knew Oswald in Russia, I was invited to serve as a keynote speaker at an annual conference held in Dallas in November by the Coalition on Political Assassinations (COPA). The event was focused on the 50th Anniversary of JFK assassination.

"However, there arose a problem in obtaining my U.S. visa at the American Consulate in Minsk. Carrying COPA's official invitation and a copy of Oswald: Russian Episode, I went to the consulate, while thinking that approval to visit for my forthcoming speech would be a mere formality. Unexpectedly, the interview turned out to be a psychological assault by the consulate officer that bordered on outright provocation.

"She made it so stressful for me that I can only think to describe it with the American expression, 'Keep your shirt on,' which is reputed to stem from the frontier days when a man's removal of his shirt meant that he was ready to fight (but not willing to damage clothing valued in that era). By the end of her act, the officer suddenly became calm and all business. She collected my papers and announced that I had to wait for a decision. Still furious inside, I left the consulate pondering the meaning of the show that she had staged with me.

"I waited to hear anything from the U.S. consulate for over a month. With the time of my scheduled departure fast approaching, I decided to act. I appealed to the Americans involved with the conference for polite letters of support to be sent to the consulate in my behalf by those who expected my visit. (. . .) This and perhaps other circumstances worked. Before long, I obtained my U.S. visa.

(. . .)

"This book gives a straightforward, firsthand account of Oswald and his everyday life in Russia. That includes his work and leisure, love and disappointments, interests and ambitions, his socio-political views, and his writings.

"I often ask myself why such a book would be hindered and so little known, especially in the United States when there is so much interest in the life and death of the popular president. The reviewers who took the trouble to write are unanimous in stating that Oswald: Russian Episode presents the real Oswald and humanizes this much-dehumanized man.

"The real Oswald would not pull the trigger at JFK. This view, based on my observations and professional evaluation of Oswald, is in opposition to the U.S. official view on Oswald's role in the JFK tragedy. This makes Oswald: Russian Episode an undesirable nuisance except for those [who] know or who care to understand the facts. 

"Ernst Titovets, M.D., Ph.D., Minsk, Belarus, September 2020." 

Edited February 5 by Greg Doudna