Do photos show Felipe Vidal Santiago as the Dark-Complected Man? And Roy Hargraves as the Umbrella Man?

[Larry Hancock]

Robert is right, this photo will never go away though....in reality its Sturgis not Plumlee and as for Op 40, we have the history of that and its not Op 40 either....the Op 40 personnel are or were at one time listed on the Brigade web site, trained by Davit Morales as AMMOTS and later many became part of the Cuban Intelligence Service at JMWAVE, others went rogue on their own and some later became involved in drug smuggling.  Anybody that has SMWHT will find this all in a bit more details there as far as OP40 goes.

[Matt Cloud]

11 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

A condescending know it all who challenges my bonafides -- you're the right guy.

Evidently not. You keep harping on it.

I asked a simple question that you are unwilling to answer -- what "other factors" did you base your ID of Joannides upon?

Authoritarian personality types melt down at the simplest of challenges.

No, we're taking credit for any non-pornographic use of the word "hardcore" after 1979.

"We're taking credit."  The Anarchists have become property-owners.  Did Kubrick clear that with "you all" before using that in the final scene of Full Metal Jacket?  Sounds "authoritarian" however, your taking credit.  I didn't challenge your bonafides, but since you claim I have, and that you have supplied such -- I'm still not sure what they are now that you mention it.  

As to your other, now you didn't read, either the first time or the second time.

Humorless, pedantic -- and erroneous -- dolt.

13 hours ago: 

 

You ID'd Joannides as DCM on the basis of clothing and other factors.  Rather than take advantage of the opportunity to explain these "other factors" you decided to pitch a fit

I've already explained the other factors -- in this thread.   He's photo'd training Alpha-66 -- which included Plumlee as you probably know and thus he's not necessarily the best witness here in light of your comment above  -- along with George W. Bush.  Differences in complexion may be attributable to makeup, which appears in at least one photo of DC to be smearing, possibly.  

And if that's what you wanted to know -- you should learn to ask.

 

Edited June 11 by Matt Cloud

[Matt Cloud]

4 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Robert is right, this photo will never go away though....in reality its Sturgis not Plumlee and as for Op 40, we have the history of that and its not Op 40 either....the Op 40 personnel are or were at one time listed on the Brigade web site, trained by Davit Morales as AMMOTS and later many became part of the Cuban Intelligence Service at JMWAVE, others went rogue on their own and some later became involved in drug smuggling.  Anybody that has SMWHT will find this all in a bit more details there as far as OP40 goes.

I disagree.

 

 

[Matt Cloud]

10 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

That most definitely is NOT Tosh Plumlee covering his face!!! I think that Tosh Plumlees has previously stated it is himself but I put no credence in that puffery.

It is Frank Sturgis.

 

I love it.  Plumlee says it is he but it is not.  

[Matthew Koch]

11 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

That most definitely is NOT Tosh Plumlee covering his face!!! I think that Tosh Plumlees has previously stated it is himself but I put no credence in that puffery.

It is Frank Sturgis.

 

Robert have you read Daniel's book?

I have both copies of 'Barry and the Boys' (hard copy doesn't contain redactions) and while I respect the reporting job Daniel did with invetigating Flight Schools in S. Florida and his book Mohammad Atta and the flying circus. Barry and the Boys is a little like a Kitty Kelly or Anthony Summers book because it contains a lot of hear say and lore repeated by people who heard from someone. He believes that Chancey Holt is one of the Tramps and that Barry Seal was at Red Bird Air Port to fly out an assassin team beause Barry Seal was in David Ferries Civil Air Patrol like Oswald in New Orleans. 

I do think that Porter Goss and Barry Seal are pictured in the photo, I do not think that is Felix Rodriquez, Frank Sturgis or Opreation 40 (It may be JM/Wave people associated with it. but I highly doubt it's a secret photo of operation 40 in Mexico City and btw Porter Goss is a bureaucrat who was on the 911 commission with Richard Ben Viniste who was Barry Seal's lawyer at one time.) 

Interestingly the flight schools Hopsticker investigated involved connect to drug trafficking and operation mongoose personal. 

 

Edited June 11 by Matthew Koch

[Matt Cloud]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Robert have you read Daniel's book?

I have both copies (hard copy doesn't contain redactions) while I respect the reporting job Daniel did with invetigating Flight Schools in S. Florida and his book Mohammad Atta and the flying circus. Barry and the Boys is a little like a Kitty Kelly or Anthony Summers book because it contains a lot of hear say and lore repeated by people who heard from someone. He believes that Chancey Holt is one of the Tramps and that Barry Seal was at Red Bird Air Port to fly out an assassin team beause Barry Seal was in David Ferries Civil Air Patrol like Oswald in New Orleans. 

I do think that Porter Goss and Barry Seal are pictured in the photo, I do not think that is Felix Rodriquez, Frank Sturgis or Opreation 40 (It may be JM/Wave people associated with it. but I highly doubt it's a secret photo of operation 40 in Mexico City and btw Porter Goss is a bureaucrat who was on the 911 commission with Richard Ben Viniste who was Barry Seal's lawyer at one time.) 

Interestingly the flight schools Hopsticker investigated involved connect to drug trafficking and operation mongoose personal. 

 

Goss is -- or was, recently -- a bureaucrat but rather more "hands-on" before that.  

 

Did he participate in retrieval of downed NRO U-2 flight on or about Nov. 20, 1963 in the Gulf of Mexico?

https://www.codshit.com/2004/09/secrets-of-florida-straits.html

"When JFK was setting out on the Texas trip, the most treacherous act of all by the CIA, and the least investigated occurred - the apparent shooting down by Castro of a U-2 reconnaissance plane, piloted by Captain Joe Glenn Hyde, Jr. The LaGrange (Ga.) Daily News, Hyde's home town, was filled with ominous stories about the crash while reminding readers that similar flights had first discovered Soviet MRBMs in Cuba in October 1962, and that flights were continuing to make sure that they had left.

His mother, for example, said that he had called her on the 19th, to wish her a happy birthday from some undisclosed place, but now he had simply disappeared in the "Ten Fathom Curve" area, 40 miles northwest of Key West. While the Strategic Air Command (SAC) did not believe that Hyde had been shot down by the Cubans, it did note that the plane crashed without transmitting any radio messages, and that the downing of Major Rudolf Anderson's U-2 plane during the Missile Crisis took the world to the brink of nuclear war.

The day of the assassination, the Navy and Coast were conducting an all-out search to find Hyde who had apparently ejected from the aircraft before it crashed, and to recover the U-2. If Hyde had done so, it might take days to find him. "Strict security measures are in effect in the salvage area and newsmen are not permitted near the scene," the lead story of the Georgia daily reported. While neither mechanical trouble, nor Cuban fire had been ruled out as the cause of the accident, the stories clearly indicated that only Hyde, if he were recovered, could convincingly establish what had happened.

After JFK was assassinated, and attempts by the CIA, the Bureau, and the Defense Department to blame it upon Castro and the Soviets had been quashed, all interest in Hyde's condition and whereabouts simply died. The LaGrange Daily News settled for the shortest story on the inside the next day, entitled "Searchers Find No Trace of Glenn Hyde", and other papers across the country hardly had more. The mystery was not clarified either six month later when Hyde's survivors received his Distinguished Flying Cross for a flight he made in January 1963, a Fifth Oak Lead Cluster to the Air Medal for flights which did not include his apparently fatal one, and there was no mention of any Purple Heart for his apparent demise."

 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Matt Cloud said:

Did Kubrick clear that with "you all" before using that in the final scene of Full Metal Jacket? 

Speaking of Mickey Mouse...

1 hour ago, Matt Cloud said:

I've already explained the other factors -- in this thread.   He's photo'd training Alpha-66 -- which included Plumlee as you probably know and thus he's not necessarily the best witness here in light of your comment above  -- along with George W. Bush. 

That's it? 

Joannides trained Alpha-66 therefore he smeared make-up on, stood out in Dealey Plaza giving a hold-fire signal during the shooting sequence, then sat on the curb for a while where he could be photographed.

1 hour ago, Matt Cloud said:

Differences in complexion may be attributable to makeup, which appears in at least one photo of DC to be smearing, possibly.  

Not Disney.  Loony Tunes.

[Matt Cloud]

5 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Speaking of Mickey Mouse...

That's it? 

Joannides trained Alpha-66 therefore he smeared make-up on, stood out in Dealey Plaza giving a hold-fire signal during the shooting sequence, then sat on the curb for a while where he could be photographed.

Not Disney.  Loony Tunes.

Hang it up, Clifford.  You're a bore.  Anyway, word on the street in the 80s here in DC's (via Bad Brains) was you're full of it.   

[Cliff Varnell]

3 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

Hang it up, Clifford.  You're a bore.  Anyway, word on the street in the 80s here in DC's (via Bad Brains) was you're full of it.   

When Ian MacKaye (Minor Threat vocalist) told H.R. (Bad Brains vocalist) they were "hardcore" H.R. said, "Like in porno?"

[Matt Cloud]

Just now, Cliff Varnell said:

When Ian MacKaye (Minor Threat vocalist) told H.R. (Bad Brains vocalist) they were "hardcore" H.R. said, "Like in porno?"

I see an epitaph being chiseled for you as we write here.

But remember: "In lapidary inscriptions, a man is not upon an oath."  

[Cliff Varnell]

6 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

I see an epitaph being chiseled for you as we write here.

Thanks for the invitation to live rent-free in your head.  I pass.

[Matt Cloud]

1 minute ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Thanks for the invitation to live rent-free in your head.  I pass.

Stop doubting your impact, your reach.  It's disingenuous, certainly unconvincing.  

[Robert Morrow]

2 hours ago, Matt Cloud said:

I love it.  Plumlee says it is he but it is not.  

Correct! I got a good identification of all those people in that photo from someone who has deep connections in the anti-Castro Cuban community in Miami. I wrote all the names down but they are currently under a big pile of papers.

[Robert Morrow]

2 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Robert have you read Daniel's book?

I have both copies of 'Barry and the Boys' (hard copy doesn't contain redactions) and while I respect the reporting job Daniel did with invetigating Flight Schools in S. Florida and his book Mohammad Atta and the flying circus. Barry and the Boys is a little like a Kitty Kelly or Anthony Summers book because it contains a lot of hear say and lore repeated by people who heard from someone. He believes that Chancey Holt is one of the Tramps and that Barry Seal was at Red Bird Air Port to fly out an assassin team beause Barry Seal was in David Ferries Civil Air Patrol like Oswald in New Orleans. 

I do think that Porter Goss and Barry Seal are pictured in the photo, I do not think that is Felix Rodriquez, Frank Sturgis or Opreation 40 (It may be JM/Wave people associated with it. but I highly doubt it's a secret photo of operation 40 in Mexico City and btw Porter Goss is a bureaucrat who was on the 911 commission with Richard Ben Viniste who was Barry Seal's lawyer at one time.) 

Interestingly the flight schools Hopsticker investigated involved connect to drug trafficking and operation mongoose personal. 

 

I read Daniel Hopsicker's classic a long time ago. R.I.P. Daniel Hopsicker.

HEARSAY is perfectly acceptable to use in the field of historical research. The search for historical truth is NOT a criminal trial

I think Hopsicker's book is a very good book and is correct in most areas (not all).

Porter Goss and Barry Seal are in that picture.

I am pretty sure that is Felix Rodriguez and Frank Sturgis (covering his face).

I don't think it is Operation 40 but definitely people associated with U.S. government and anti-Castro operations.

Porter Goss is very close to the Bush family (bad sign).

Richard Ben Veniste is a cover up artist and it is quite interesting that he was Barry Seal's lawyer at one time.

 

 

 

[Matt Cloud]

26 minutes ago, Robert Morrow said:

Correct! I got a good identification of all those people in that photo from someone who has deep connections in the anti-Castro Cuban community in Miami. I wrote all the names down but they are currently under a big pile of papers.

Oh you mean Veciana?  Right .  Or is it Roger Stone?