Arlen Specter's "SBT" Notebook (DVP's Tongue-In-Cheek Version)

[David Von Pein]

8 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

The bullet didn’t really create an elongated wound though. Connally’s clothing proves definitively he was hit almost dead on.

Some thoughts on this subject:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1147.html

 

[Benjamin Cole]

54 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

The bullet didn’t really create an elongated wound though. Connally’s clothing proves definitively he was hit almost dead on. The wound in Connally’s back was enlarged by Shaw - “debrided” I think is the term but I’m not positive on that. 

Connally getting hit by a non-tumbling bullet doesn’t necessarily harm the SBT though. 6.5mm MC ammo was some of the most stable ammunition on the planet. Martin Fackler’s tests in I think the late 90s showed that the rounds passed through ~60cm of ballistics gel before tumbling. 

http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf p.41

I don’t know the exact number off the top of my head, but the proposed path-length through JFK’s torso is surely less than 60cm. 

Another thing I don’t know, and am curious about, is the expected behavior of the ammunition passing from tissue into air. If I recall, the bullet did tumble in a few SBT simulations, maybe by Lattimer and I think the Discovery Channel. If the tendency of a 6.5mm bullet passing from a JFK torso-length wound track into air is to tumble, and tumble consistently, that could be a real problem for the SBT.  

You’d have to explain how a tumbling bullet could leave holes like those observed in Connally’s clothing, which suggest a minimal yaw angle at entry. I forget the exact dimensions but the holes are small and quite symmetrical, and appear to have been made by a direct or nearly-direct hit.  

I suppose it’s not impossible that the bullet did a full 360 or something, or entered backwards, but I kinda doubt it. A much better explanation IMO is that the bullet didn’t tumble at all. The question is if that’s typical, or even possible behavior given the conditions in DP. 

Considering Fackler’s test, I suspect a non-tumbling bullet is still consistent with the SBT, but I’d like to see someone prove it.

@Benjamin Cole wrote a very good article on this topic a while back. I’d link it but I can’t get it to load. 

DVP has been corrected on this, and knows there is small round hole in the back of Connally's assassination day shirt, just large enough to accommodate a straight shot from a slug about the size of CE399. 

The slug was not tumbling as it struck JBC. 

LBC;s back wound was in fact debrided or enlarged, as Dr. Shaw testified, who described the initial wound as ovoid and north-south on JBC's body. Shaw thought it was a straight shot from above and behind. 

If someone wants to believe lone-nut perped the JFKA, that's fine. But the lone nut shot a slug that struck JBC directly. 

Edited June 14 by Benjamin Cole

[Micah Mileto]

20 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Has any conspiracy theorist in history ever made this basic observation?....

Boy, those assassins were sure a bunch of lucky sons of bitches when the guy who shot JFK in the throat from the front managed to hit Kennedy in exactly the right spot on his body so that (later on) the official investigators could utilize that entry wound in the throat as the point of exit for the SBT bullet. And then the multiple assassins got even luckier when the upper-back bullet and the bullet that entered the throat both decided not to exit the body and then both of those bullets vanished into puffs of smoke before either of those bullets (which obviously were still inside JFK's body when he was inside Trauma Room No. 1 at Parkland Hospital) could be seen by any non-conspirator.

Can anyone truly believe that such incredible good fortune could possibly have existed amongst the (alleged) multiple shooters who were (allegedly) firing bullets at President Kennedy on 11/22/63?

(And yet CTers have the gall to tell me that I am the one who believes in "Magic Bullets". Oy vey!)

 

The EOP wound could also count as a potential shallow wound. There are also endless stories of extra recovered slugs, fragments, shell casings and bullet marks.

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The slug was not tumbling as it struck JBC. 

You might be right. It doesn't really matter to me if the bullet was tumbling or went straight into Mr. Connally's body. Whichever way it happened, I'm convinced (for a whole variety of reasons) that one single bullet hit both JFK and Gov. Connally in Dealey Plaza.

 

Edited June 14 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

15 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

You might be right. It doesn't really matter to me if the bullet was tumbling or went straight into Mr. Connally's body. Whichever way it happened, I'm convinced (for a whole variety of reasons) that one single bullet hit both JFK and Gov. Connally in Dealey Plaza.

 

Well, we are world's apart on this one.

My take is JBC is shot about Z-295, when he is pushed forward. JBC testified that the slug that hit him pushed him forward, which makes sense as it was taking out five inches of rib, meeting resistance the whole way. 

JBC's testimony about hearing the first shot, then turning and making a 180-degree turn in his seat, and then turning forward and then being struck, also lines up with a Z-295 hit.  

Dr. Shaw, who had attended to 700 gunshot wounds in WWII as a surgeon, and who was the surgeon for JBC, said it was his opinion JBC had taken a straight shot. That's a pretty well informed opinion. 

But, each to his own...

[David Von Pein]

11 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My take is JBC is shot about Z-295

Then please explain why Gov. Connally jerked his right arm upward at Z226 (which just happened to be the same right arm/wrist that was struck by a bullet in Dealey Plaza, even though you say it won't be hit by that bullet for another 3.7 seconds)?

So, is it your opinion, Ben, that this arm-jerking is merely an odd coincidence that has nothing to do with a bullet striking the Texas Governor?

Edited June 14 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

Just now, David Von Pein said:

Then please explain why Gov. Connally jerked his right arm upward at Z226? In your opinion, was that just an odd coincidence?

My take is JBC is reacting, though not struck, by a probable shot somewhere around Z-221. It takes few tenths of a second to respond. The bullet may have pinged off of something inside the limo, plus the sound of gunfire jolted JBC. 

JBC testified shots were entering the cab of limo as if by "automatic weapons" fire. I thought he meant "semi-automatic weapons fire" but he repeated the exact phrase in both the WC and HSBC testimonies, and he was gun-savvy. 

I suppose it possible Z-221 is when JBC received his odd wrist wound, on the wristwatch side of his wrist. Such a wound is nearly impossible, from a slug first coursing through JBC's chest. But JBC did not testify accordingly. He seems not to know when he was struck in the worst. 

In any event, JBC recalls getting hit in the back and pushed forward. That is pretty blunt. 

Witness testimony is often iffy. But here the witness---and JBC seems to have all his wits---is testifying what happened to him after he felt a blow to his back. He was pushed forward by the blow.  He is not testifying about a fleeting glimpse of a car crash or shooting, some action at night, etc. 

I credit JBC's testimony. 

 

 

[David Von Pein]

38 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My take is JBC is reacting, though not struck, by a probable shot somewhere around Z-221. It takes few tenths of a second to respond. The bullet may have pinged off of something inside the limo, plus the sound of gunfire jolted JBC. 

JBC testified shots were entering the cab of limo as if by "automatic weapons" fire. I thought he meant "semi-automatic weapons fire" but he repeated the exact phrase in both the WC and HSBC testimonies, and he was gun-savvy. 

I suppose it possible Z-221 is when JBC received his odd wrist wound, on the wristwatch side of his wrist. Such a wound is nearly impossible, from a slug first coursing through JBC's chest. But JBC did not testify accordingly. He seems not to know when he was struck in the worst. 

In any event, JBC recalls getting hit in the back and pushed forward. That is pretty blunt. 

Witness testimony is often iffy. But here the witness---and JBC seems to have all his wits---is testifying what happened to him after he felt a blow to his back. He was pushed forward by the blow.  He is not testifying about a fleeting glimpse of a car crash or shooting, some action at night, etc. 

I credit JBC's testimony. 

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, Ben.

But aren't the simultaneous upward movements of JFK's arms and John Connally's right arm at precisely Zapruder frame 226 enough to make you consider at least the possibility that both limo victims were reacting at the same time and therefore were probably hit by the same bullet?

 

Edited June 14 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

Here's a question for David. Can you present a step by step estimation of the bullet's velocity every step of the way?

The velocity in fps when striking JFK"

The velocity in fps when striking JBC?

The velocity in fps when striking JBC's wrist?

The velocity in fps when sticking JBC's thigh? 

 

 

[David Von Pein]

5 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Here's a question for David. Can you present a step by step estimation of the bullet's velocity every step of the way?

No, of course I can't. I can rely on what some of the experts had to say about that matter (even though some of them disagree with each other), but I certainly have no idea personally about such technical matters. I'm not a ballistics expert.

 

Edited June 14 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

No, of course I can't. I can rely on what some of the experts had to say about that matter (even though some of them disagree with each other), but I certainly have no idea personally about such technical matters. I'm not a ballistics expert.

 

Well, when one looks at the various tests performed. the numbers don't add up. 

Olivier's tests proved the unlikelihood of the SBT, but the ones paying the bills weren't gonna let him say that, now were they? 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, Ben.

But aren't the simultaneous upward movements of JFK's arms and John Connally's right arm at precisely Zapruder frame 226 enough to make you consider at least the possibility that both limo victims were reacting at the same time and therefore were probably hit by the same bullet?

 

DVP--

Indeed, thanks for your collegial commentary. 

Sure, there is the possibility of many scenarios, including yours. 

It also may be the bullet in question first passed through JFK's neck, and then struck the "dorsal" or wristwatch side of JBC's wrist. So a startled reaction. 

But...as I have stated, in your version, if the JFK neck bullet passed through JBC, then after that, JBC made a 180-degree turn in his seat to try to check on JFK. 

JBC described his wound as immediately incapacitating. Very believable---a large slug had passed through his body, ripped out five inches of rib, sliced his right lung, and took out for four-square-inch blob in his front chest as exiting.  

So, IMHO, JBC was pushed forward by the shot that struck him, and was immediately incapacitated. 

But hey, just IMHO. I can't even convince CT'ers of my version. 

The only prerequisite to be in the EF-JFKA is that you have hardwired convictions on politics, your JFKA views, and notice the crummy nature of people who hold different views. 

But this exchange has been pleasant. Thanks. This may be a first in EF-JFKA annals. 

[David Von Pein]

Thanks again, Ben, for a friendly and thoughtful reply. I disagree with your overall anti-SBT stance on the matter, but I appreciate your input.

In the final analysis, there are many things that add up (in my opinion) to the Single-Bullet Theory being the obvious and correct solution to explain the wounding of JFK and Connally---including analysis of the Zapruder Film, plus the complete lack of bullets in JFK's body at autopsy, the lack of any substantial damage to the interior structures of Kennedy's neck/back region, the pattern of bruises within JFK's neck, etc.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / SBT Zapruder Film Clips

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Ultimate In SBT Denial Among Conspiracy Theorists

 

[Benjamin Cole]

14 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Thanks again, Ben, for a friendly and thoughtful reply. I disagree with your overall anti-SBT stance on the matter, but I appreciate your input.

In the final analysis, there are many things that add up (in my opinion) to the Single-Bullet Theory being the obvious and correct solution to explain the wounding of JFK and Connally---including analysis of the Zapruder Film, plus the complete lack of bullets in JFK's body at autopsy, the lack of any substantial damage to the interior structures of Kennedy's neck/back region, the pattern of bruises within JFK's neck, etc.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / SBT Zapruder Film Clips

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Ultimate In SBT Denial Among Conspiracy Theorists

 

In the spirit of the EF-JFKA, I will sign off with the forum motto, "Only my views are the right views." 

Seriously, like I said, just IMHO. 

Onwards and upwards....

 

[Paul Bacon]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

But aren't the simultaneous upward movements of JFK's arms and John Connally's right arm at precisely Zapruder frame 226 enough to make you consider at least the possibility that both limo victims were reacting at the same time and therefore were probably hit by the same bullet?

 

At this moment, I think Connally is reacting to glass shards and a bullet whizzing past his left ear, and not reacting to being hit by a bullet.