The Problem of WCR/'Lone Nut" Disinformation on the Education Forum

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

There's no free speech on this forum. This is a private website and we are all here at the pleasure of the site owner. If the owner of the Education Forum wants to have Lone Nut theorists on here, that's their decision. The website owner welcomes LN’s here. That's unquestionable.

Some people (myself among them) think misinformation and disinformation comes part and parcel with Lone Nut theorists, because, as we see it, the Lone Nut theory has already been satisfactorily proven false far beyond any reasonable doubt.

The question at issue seems to be: will any moderators of this forum be allowed the authority to stem the flow of misinformation and disinformation, or is this a Wild West where anything goes? And if the answer is “something in between,” who draws the line and determines what is innocent misinformation and what is malicious disinformation?

People have a right to their own opinions; they do not have a right to their own facts. I believe objective facts exist. But, it seems some folks here think facts are merely matters of opinion.

If I were on a scientific website’s forum discussing planets and solar systems, and there were flat-earthers there always chiming in, well… that's their right. But they would certainly be mucking up attempts at serious scientific discussion. I'd have to wonder what their intent for being there was in the first place. And I wouldn't blame anyone who would prefer a slightly more serious-minded forum that did not treat facts as opinions. To me, treating facts as opinions is disrespectful to the concept of truth. I feel truth should be the goal of all of us here.

Lone Nut theorists believe the whole case was solved an hour after it happened. That's their prerogative. Yet somehow they think they have something useful to contribute to the conspiracy theorist’s discussions today. I don't see it. In my eyes, the most the LN’s seem to offer is scorn for those still studying the case. That scorn holds little intellectual value for me. To those of us looking for answers, what do the Lone Nut theorists offer to further our understanding of what really happened? Other than endless variations of “You're a bunch of stupid morons on a silly wild goose chase, because the answer was crystal clear the very moment it happened sixty years ago.”

Again, that's their prerogative to hold that viewpoint. I'll never question that. But it often makes being on this forum tedious and unnecessarily frustrating when it seems every conversation with LN’s offers little more than the opportunity to go back to cover well-trodden ground. It's distracting, and it's hard not to entertain the idea that distraction is their ultimate goal, since truth seems to be a much lesser priority to them.

Great post Denny.  

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

There was, of course, no wound at all to JFK's "right forehead". That's just another conspiracy-flavored myth (of course).

And, of course, there was no "occipital skull fragment" blasted out of JFK's head in Dealey Plaza at all, and the authenticated X-ray below proves it, because it shows no missing bone at all in the occipital area of President Kennedy's head. None. CTers, naturally, will claim (sans a bit of proof) that this is yet another piece of "fake" evidence:

And your next conspiracy myth will be.....?

 

Speaking of mythology, David, where is the missing Harper fragment in your photo-- the skull fragment found in Dealey Plaza corresponding to the gaping posterior skull exit wound observed by the Parkland physicians?

Also, did your mythical Bethesda autopsy report say anything about the damaged cerebellum, which was visible in the occipital skull exit wound in the Parkland ER?

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

That's philosophical logic 101.

Hey, even I passed that one, with a B if I remember right.  But you might have to go back to the Physics things (which I never took, but logic is involved there as well). 

Like a bullet on a downward trajectory going in a back at T-3, without hitting bone does not suddenly turn up inside the body and go out the bottom of the throat.  Nor would it then again, in mid-air turn downward again.  Creating seven wounds, ending up in pristine condition.  Physically impossible.

You might have to go back to the basics.  As in Costner portraying Garrison in JFK.  Back and to the Left, Back and to the Left, Back and to the Left. 

[W. Niederhut]

2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Hey, even I passed that one, with a B if I remember right.  But you might have to go back to the Physics things (which I never took, but logic is involved there as well). 

Like a bullet on a downward trajectory going in a back at T-3, without hitting bone does not suddenly turn up inside the body and go out the bottom of the throat.  Nor would it then again, in mid-air turn downward again.  Creating seven wounds, ending up in pristine condition.  Physically impossible.

You might have to go back to the basics.  As in Costner portraying Garrison in JFK.  Back and to the Left, Back and to the Left, Back and to the Left. 

Back and to the left, indeed.

I wonder how DVP's mythical Lone Nut paradigm explains that one.

Is DVP using the Luis Alvarez Cellophane-Wrapped Melon Propulsion Model?

If I recall correctly, a Carcano shot fired from the TSBD blew off the right half of a cadaver's face, knocking the head violently forward.

[David Von Pein]

44 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

where is the missing Harper fragment in your photo?

Here, of course....

44 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Also, did your mythical Bethesda autopsy report say anything about the damaged cerebellum, which was visible in the occipital skull exit wound in the Parkland ER?

There was no damage to the cerebellum. The Parkland doctors who said that later admitted they were mistaken about seeing cerebellum.

And: As proven by the above X-ray, there was no "occipital exit wound". The authenticated-by-the-HSCA X-ray above trumps any and all "BOH Wound" witnesses. Always has. Always will.

 

Edited August 12 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

27 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Back and to the left, indeed.

I wonder how DVP's mythical Lone Nut paradigm explains that one.

I don't really need to fully explain it. Because regardless of which direction the President's head moved after being shot, I know from the autopsy report plus the autopsy photos & X-rays plus this video interview with Dr. James J. Humes that JFK was only hit in the head by ONE bullet, with that bullet coming from behind.

 

Edited August 12 by David Von Pein

[Cliff Varnell]

39 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Hey, even I passed that one, with a B if I remember right.  But you might have to go back to the Physics things (which I never took, but logic is involved there as well). 

Like a bullet on a downward trajectory going in a back at T-3, without hitting bone does not suddenly turn up inside the body and go out the bottom of the throat.  Nor would it then again, in mid-air turn downward again.  Creating seven wounds, ending up in pristine condition.  Physically impossible.

You might have to go back to the basics.  As in Costner portraying Garrison in JFK.  Back and to the Left, Back and to the Left, Back and to the Left. 

Ron, your second paragraph is gold.

Sadly, it's the third paragraph that elicits response.

[Cliff Varnell]

5 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

And there are additional possible explanations which, consistent with the rules of this forum, I will not direct toward any particular individual...

What I can say is that as the result of running a political assassinations research group on Facebook, I have come to conclude that social media is crawling with government sponsored operatives, particularly in political assassination related groups, and most of the participants who are honest brokers touch shoulders with these operatives on a daily basis in these groups and never suspect that this is, in fact, what is going on.

Anyone who disagrees with you about anything is a potential Government Sponsored Operative.

Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

[W. Niederhut]

34 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Here, of course....

There was no damage to the cerebellum. The Parkland doctors who said that later admitted they were mistaken about seeing cerebellum.

And: As proven by the above X-ray, there was no "occipital exit wound". The authenticated-by-the-HSCA X-ray above trumps any and all "BOH Wound" witnesses. Always has. Always will.

 

David,

     Do you know what the occiput is?

     Surely, you don't think the 5x7 cm Harper fragment was an entrance wound, do you?

     And, yes, the Parkland docs saw extravasated cerebellum in the exit wound.

     Hume didn't even mention the cerebellum in his sham Bethesda autopsy report.

     

[Cliff Varnell]

7 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

David,

     Do you know what the occiput is?

     Surely, you don't think the 5x7 cm Harper fragment was an entrance wound, do you?

     And, yes, the Parkland docs saw extravasated cerebellum in the exit wound.

     Hume didn't even mention the cerebellum in his sham Bethesda autopsy report.

     

 

[Keven Hofeling]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

There was, of course, no wound at all to JFK's "right forehead". That's just another conspiracy-flavored myth (of course).

And, of course, there was no "occipital skull fragment" blasted out of JFK's head in Dealey Plaza at all, and the authenticated X-ray below proves it, because it shows no missing bone at all in the occipital area of President Kennedy's head. None. CTers, naturally, will claim (sans a bit of proof) that this is yet another piece of "fake" evidence:

And your next conspiracy myth will be.....?

 

 

And there goes Von Pein spouting off with exactly the variety of disinformation this thread is about...

Niederhut asks him about the bullet entry wound to JFK's right temple, and the blood, brain and skull ejected to the left and rear of the presidential limo, as supported by scores of witnesses, and Von Pein responds with references to the photographic forgery of the government, about which all the participants of this forum with more than a grade school IQ are well aware, provided they are honest brokers. An observation that is equally applicable even to Kentucky Fried Chicken employees.

Of course there was an entry wound in JFK's right temple!

Evidence of a Frontal Shot --- Part I / The Entry Wound -- By Gil Jesus

 

THOMAS EVAN ROBINSON INTERVIEW - ARRB MD 63 - Robinson-Purdy HSCA Interviews (1/12/77) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=327⁠
⁠
"...PURDY: Did you notice anything else unusual about the body which may have been artificially caused, that is, caused by something other than the autopsy?
⁠
ROBINSON: Probably, a little mark at the temple in the hairline. As I recall, it was so small, it could be hidden by the hair. It didn't have to be covered with make-up. I thought it probably a piece of the bone or a piece of the bullet that caused it.
⁠
PURDY: In other words, there was a little wound.
⁠
ROBINSON: Yes.
⁠
PURDY: Approximately where, which side of the forehead or part of the head was it on?
⁠
ROBINSON: I believe it was on the right side.
⁠
PURDY: On his right side?
⁠
ROBINSON: That's an anatomical right, yes...
⁠
PAGE 3
⁠
PURDY: You say it was in the forehead region up near the hair line?
⁠
ROBINSON: Yes.
⁠
PURDY: Would you say it was closer to the hair?
⁠
ROBINSON: Somewhere around the temples.
⁠
PURDY: Approximately what size?
⁠
ROBINSON: Very small, a quarter of an inch.
⁠
PURDY: Quarter of an inch is all the damage. Had it been closed up by the doctors?
⁠
ROBINSON: No, he didn't have to close it. If anything I just would have probably put a little wax on it.
⁠
PURDY: Were you the one that was responsible for closing these wounds in the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: Well, we all worked on it. Once the body was embalmed arterially and they brought a piece of heavy duty rubber, again to fill the area (area in the back of the head) I remember treating the . . . organs, like I said, we all tried to help one another.
⁠
PURDY: O.K., you had to close the wound in the back of the head using the rubber, what other work had to be done on the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: It had to be all dried out, packed and the rubber placed in the hair and the skin pulled back over it as much as possible and stitched into that piece of rubber. They were afraid again of leaks, once the body is moved or shaken in the casket and carried up the Capitol steps and opened again, we had to be very careful, there would have been blood on the pillow.
⁠
PURDY: Was there any other work that you had to do on the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: I did the make up, cosmetic.
⁠
PURDY: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple area, and the big one in the back?
⁠
ROBINSON: THAT'S ALL (emphasis not in original).
⁠
PAGE 4
⁠
PURDY: Did you have to shave the head so you could tell if there were other wounds?
⁠
ROBINSON: No. In fact, we wanted the hair there to hide as much as possible. Putting the head into the pillow of the head of the casket would have hidden everything.
⁠
PURDY: Do you think it was possible that there was some other wound under the hair? Did you look for other wounds?
⁠
ROBINSON: Oh yes, we would have found that.
⁠
PURDY: So you are satisfied in your professional experience that there were no other significant wound of the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: I stayed on the left side of the body throughout the whole thing.
⁠
PURDY: Did you get a good look at that wound on the right temple area?
⁠
ROBINSON: Oh yes, I worked right over for some time.
⁠
PURDY: What did you feel caused that wound?
⁠
ROBINSON: I think either a piece of bone or a piece of the bullet. Or a very small piece of shrapnel...."

 

And of course blood, brain and skull was blasted rearward from the back of President Kennedy's head behind the limo!

__________
"...BLOOD, BRAIN MATTER, AND BONE FRAGMENTS EXPLODED FROM THE BACK OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD. THE PRESIDENT'S BLOOD, PARTS OF HIS SKULL, BITS OF HIS BRAIN WERE SPLATTERED ALL OVER ME -- ON MY FACE, MY CLOTHES, IN MY HAIR..."

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill (in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir").
__________
"...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..."

Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara).

"...WHEN PRESIDENT KENNEDY STRAIGHTENED BACK UP IN THE CAR THE BULLET HIT HIM IN THE HEAD, THE ONE THAT KILLED HIM AND IT SEEMED LIKE HIS HEAD EXPLODED, AND I WAS SPLATTERED WITH BLOOD AND BRAIN, AND KIND OF A BLOODY WATER...."

Dallas Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis (4/8/1964 Warren Commission testimony).
__________
"...I CAN REMEMBER SEEING THE SIDE OF THE PRESIDENT'S EAR AND HEAD COME OFF. I REMEMBER A FLASH OF WHITE AND THE RED AND JUST BITS AND PIECES OF FLESH EXPLODING FROM THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD..."

Dealey Plaza witness Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=13

__________
"...THE HEAD SHOT SEEMED TO COME FROM THE RIGHT FRONT. IT SEEMED TO STRIKE HIM HERE [gesturing to her upper right forehead, up high at the hairline], AND HIS HEAD WENT BACK, AND ALL OF THE BRAIN MATTER WENT OUT THE BACK OF THE HEAD. IT WAS LIKE A RED HALO, A RED CIRCLE, WITH BRIGHT MATTER IN THE MIDDLE OF IT - IT JUST WENT LIKE THAT...."

Dealey Plaza witness Marilyn Willis from 24:26-24:58 of TMWKK, Episode 1, at following link cued in advance for you https://youtu.be/BW98fHkbuD8?t=1466 ).

__________
"...Charles Brehm: 0:21 WHEN THE SECOND BULLET HIT, THERE WAS, THE HAIR SEEMED TO GO FLYING. IT WAS VERY DEFINITE THEN THAT HE WAS STRUCK IN THE HEAD WITH THE SECOND BULLET, AND, UH, YES, I VERY DEFINITELY SAW THE EFFECT OF THE SECOND BULLET.

Mark Lane: 0:38 Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly when the bullet struck him in the head?

Charles Brehm: 0:46 I SAW A PIECE FLY OVER OH IN THE AREA OF THE CURB WHERE I WAS STANDING.

Mark Lane: 0:53 In which direction did that fly?

Charles Brehm: 0:56 IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK...."

Dealey Plaza witness Charles Brehm interviewed about JFK assassination by Mark Lane for the 1967 documentary "Rush to Judgment": https://youtu.be/RsnHXywKIKs

__________
"...I SAW THE HEAD PRACTICALLY OPEN UP AND BLOOD AND MANY MORE THINGS, WHATEVER IT WAS, BRAINS, JUST CAME OUT OF HIS HEAD...."

Testimony of Dealey Plaza witness Abraham Zapruder -- who filmed the assassination -- at the Clay Shaw trial -- https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder_shaw2.htm
__________

"...AND THE NEXT THING THAT I REMEMBERED CLEARLY WAS THE SHOT THAT HIT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US, OR ALMOST DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US, THAT HIT HIM ON THE SIDE OF HIS FACE ... ABOVE THE EAR AND TO THE FRONT ... AND, WE COULD SEE HIS BRAINS COME OUT, YOU KNOW, HIS HEAD OPENING..."

Dealey Plaza witness, Marilyn Sitzman (Abraham Zapruder's secretary) interviewed in 1966 by Josiah Thompson for 'Six Seconds in Dallas' (1967).

__________

"...I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "IT WENT THIS WAY." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "YES." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "NO; IT WAS TO THE LEFT AND REAR...."

Excerpt from interview of Erwin Schwartz -- Abraham Zapruder's business partner -- who accompanied Zapruder to develop the camera-original Zapruder film, and saw the camera-original projected more than a dozen times. Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman.

__________
"...Brugioni's most vivid recollection of the Zapruder film was "...OF JFK'S BRAINS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR." He did not use the term 'head explosion,' but rather referred to apparent exit debris seen on the film the night he viewed it. "...AND WHAT I'LL NEVER FORGET WAS -- I KNEW THAT HE HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED -- BUT WHEN WE ROLLED THE FILM AND I SAW A GOOD PORTION OF HIS HEAD FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, THAT SHOCKED ME, AND THAT SHOCKED EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE..."

Excerpt from interview of Dino Brugioni -- Photoanalyst at the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center -- who viewed the camera-original Zapruder film the evening of 11/23/1963. Douglas Horne, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board" , 2009, Volume IV, Chapter 14, page 1329. 

 

[David Von Pein]

16 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Surely, you don't think the 5x7 cm Harper fragment was an entrance wound, do you?

Of course not. But the Harper fragment did not come from the occipital area of JFK's head. How could it? As I said before, the X-ray proves that there's no missing bone in the occipital, period. Therefore, the Harper fragment can't be "occipital" bone.

 

16 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

And, yes, the Parkland docs saw extravasated cerebellum in the exit wound.

No, they didn't.

 

16 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Hume didn't even mention the cerebellum in his sham Bethesda autopsy report.

Why should he? There was no damage to that area of the head at all. So why mention it?

 

Edited August 12 by David Von Pein

[W. Niederhut]

1 minute ago, Keven Hofeling said:

 

And there goes Von Pein spouting off with exactly the variety of disinformation this thread is about...

Niederhut asks him about the bullet entry wound to JFK's right temple, and the blood, brain and skull ejected to the left and rear of the presidential limo, as supported by scores of witnesses, and Von Pein responds with references to the photographic forgery of the government, about which all the participants of this forum with more than a grade school IQ are well aware, provided they are honest brokers. An observation that is equally applicable even to Kentucky Fried Chicken employees.

Of course there was an entry wound in JFK's right temple!

Evidence of a Frontal Shot --- Part I / The Entry Wound -- By Gil Jesus

 

THOMAS EVAN ROBINSON INTERVIEW - ARRB MD 63 - Robinson-Purdy HSCA Interviews (1/12/77) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=327⁠
⁠
"...PURDY: Did you notice anything else unusual about the body which may have been artificially caused, that is, caused by something other than the autopsy?
⁠
ROBINSON: Probably, a little mark at the temple in the hairline. As I recall, it was so small, it could be hidden by the hair. It didn't have to be covered with make-up. I thought it probably a piece of the bone or a piece of the bullet that caused it.
⁠
PURDY: In other words, there was a little wound.
⁠
ROBINSON: Yes.
⁠
PURDY: Approximately where, which side of the forehead or part of the head was it on?
⁠
ROBINSON: I believe it was on the right side.
⁠
PURDY: On his right side?
⁠
ROBINSON: That's an anatomical right, yes...
⁠
PAGE 3
⁠
PURDY: You say it was in the forehead region up near the hair line?
⁠
ROBINSON: Yes.
⁠
PURDY: Would you say it was closer to the hair?
⁠
ROBINSON: Somewhere around the temples.
⁠
PURDY: Approximately what size?
⁠
ROBINSON: Very small, a quarter of an inch.
⁠
PURDY: Quarter of an inch is all the damage. Had it been closed up by the doctors?
⁠
ROBINSON: No, he didn't have to close it. If anything I just would have probably put a little wax on it.
⁠
PURDY: Were you the one that was responsible for closing these wounds in the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: Well, we all worked on it. Once the body was embalmed arterially and they brought a piece of heavy duty rubber, again to fill the area (area in the back of the head) I remember treating the . . . organs, like I said, we all tried to help one another.
⁠
PURDY: O.K., you had to close the wound in the back of the head using the rubber, what other work had to be done on the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: It had to be all dried out, packed and the rubber placed in the hair and the skin pulled back over it as much as possible and stitched into that piece of rubber. They were afraid again of leaks, once the body is moved or shaken in the casket and carried up the Capitol steps and opened again, we had to be very careful, there would have been blood on the pillow.
⁠
PURDY: Was there any other work that you had to do on the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: I did the make up, cosmetic.
⁠
PURDY: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple area, and the big one in the back?
⁠
ROBINSON: THAT'S ALL (emphasis not in original).
⁠
PAGE 4
⁠
PURDY: Did you have to shave the head so you could tell if there were other wounds?
⁠
ROBINSON: No. In fact, we wanted the hair there to hide as much as possible. Putting the head into the pillow of the head of the casket would have hidden everything.
⁠
PURDY: Do you think it was possible that there was some other wound under the hair? Did you look for other wounds?
⁠
ROBINSON: Oh yes, we would have found that.
⁠
PURDY: So you are satisfied in your professional experience that there were no other significant wound of the head?
⁠
ROBINSON: I stayed on the left side of the body throughout the whole thing.
⁠
PURDY: Did you get a good look at that wound on the right temple area?
⁠
ROBINSON: Oh yes, I worked right over for some time.
⁠
PURDY: What did you feel caused that wound?
⁠
ROBINSON: I think either a piece of bone or a piece of the bullet. Or a very small piece of shrapnel...."

 

And of course blood, brain and skull was blasted rearward from the back of President Kennedy's head behind the limo!

__________
"...BLOOD, BRAIN MATTER, AND BONE FRAGMENTS EXPLODED FROM THE BACK OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD. THE PRESIDENT'S BLOOD, PARTS OF HIS SKULL, BITS OF HIS BRAIN WERE SPLATTERED ALL OVER ME -- ON MY FACE, MY CLOTHES, IN MY HAIR..."

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill (in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir").
__________
"...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..."

Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara).

"...WHEN PRESIDENT KENNEDY STRAIGHTENED BACK UP IN THE CAR THE BULLET HIT HIM IN THE HEAD, THE ONE THAT KILLED HIM AND IT SEEMED LIKE HIS HEAD EXPLODED, AND I WAS SPLATTERED WITH BLOOD AND BRAIN, AND KIND OF A BLOODY WATER...."

Dallas Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis (4/8/1964 Warren Commission testimony).
__________
"...I CAN REMEMBER SEEING THE SIDE OF THE PRESIDENT'S EAR AND HEAD COME OFF. I REMEMBER A FLASH OF WHITE AND THE RED AND JUST BITS AND PIECES OF FLESH EXPLODING FROM THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD..."

Dealey Plaza witness Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=13

__________
"...THE HEAD SHOT SEEMED TO COME FROM THE RIGHT FRONT. IT SEEMED TO STRIKE HIM HERE [gesturing to her upper right forehead, up high at the hairline], AND HIS HEAD WENT BACK, AND ALL OF THE BRAIN MATTER WENT OUT THE BACK OF THE HEAD. IT WAS LIKE A RED HALO, A RED CIRCLE, WITH BRIGHT MATTER IN THE MIDDLE OF IT - IT JUST WENT LIKE THAT...."

Dealey Plaza witness Marilyn Willis from 24:26-24:58 of TMWKK, Episode 1, at following link cued in advance for you https://youtu.be/BW98fHkbuD8?t=1466 ).

__________
"...Charles Brehm: 0:21 WHEN THE SECOND BULLET HIT, THERE WAS, THE HAIR SEEMED TO GO FLYING. IT WAS VERY DEFINITE THEN THAT HE WAS STRUCK IN THE HEAD WITH THE SECOND BULLET, AND, UH, YES, I VERY DEFINITELY SAW THE EFFECT OF THE SECOND BULLET.

Mark Lane: 0:38 Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly when the bullet struck him in the head?

Charles Brehm: 0:46 I SAW A PIECE FLY OVER OH IN THE AREA OF THE CURB WHERE I WAS STANDING.

Mark Lane: 0:53 In which direction did that fly?

Charles Brehm: 0:56 IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK...."

Dealey Plaza witness Charles Brehm interviewed about JFK assassination by Mark Lane for the 1967 documentary "Rush to Judgment": https://youtu.be/RsnHXywKIKs

__________
"...I SAW THE HEAD PRACTICALLY OPEN UP AND BLOOD AND MANY MORE THINGS, WHATEVER IT WAS, BRAINS, JUST CAME OUT OF HIS HEAD...."

Testimony of Dealey Plaza witness Abraham Zapruder -- who filmed the assassination -- at the Clay Shaw trial -- https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder_shaw2.htm
__________

"...AND THE NEXT THING THAT I REMEMBERED CLEARLY WAS THE SHOT THAT HIT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US, OR ALMOST DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US, THAT HIT HIM ON THE SIDE OF HIS FACE ... ABOVE THE EAR AND TO THE FRONT ... AND, WE COULD SEE HIS BRAINS COME OUT, YOU KNOW, HIS HEAD OPENING..."

Dealey Plaza witness, Marilyn Sitzman (Abraham Zapruder's secretary) interviewed in 1966 by Josiah Thompson for 'Six Seconds in Dallas' (1967).

__________

"...I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "IT WENT THIS WAY." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "YES." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "NO; IT WAS TO THE LEFT AND REAR...."

Excerpt from interview of Erwin Schwartz -- Abraham Zapruder's business partner -- who accompanied Zapruder to develop the camera-original Zapruder film, and saw the camera-original projected more than a dozen times. Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman.

__________
"...Brugioni's most vivid recollection of the Zapruder film was "...OF JFK'S BRAINS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR." He did not use the term 'head explosion,' but rather referred to apparent exit debris seen on the film the night he viewed it. "...AND WHAT I'LL NEVER FORGET WAS -- I KNEW THAT HE HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED -- BUT WHEN WE ROLLED THE FILM AND I SAW A GOOD PORTION OF HIS HEAD FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, THAT SHOCKED ME, AND THAT SHOCKED EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE..."

Excerpt from interview of Dino Brugioni -- Photoanalyst at the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center -- who viewed the camera-original Zapruder film the evening of 11/23/1963. Douglas Horne, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board" , 2009, Volume IV, Chapter 14, page 1329. 

 

Good post, Keven.

I would add that neurologist, Dr. Michael Chesser, has also proven by analysis of the distribution of the bullet fragments in the skull X-rays that the frontal bullet struck JFK in the forehead-- moving posteriorly.

That is, of course, consistent with the violent retrograde motion of JFK's head during the fatal head shot that blew off the back of his skull (i.e., the Harper fragment.)

P.S.  I happen to agree with your comments about "cognitive infiltration" of "conspiracy theory" forums by people working for the U.S. government.  It's a concept popularized by Cass Sunstein.

        I started a thread here a few years ago (?) about Sunstein's "Cognitive Infiltration" proposal.

[Keven Hofeling]

16 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Of course not.

 

No, they didn't.

 

Why should he? There was no damage to that area of the head at all. So why mention it?

 

 

And again, more blatant and obvious disinformation!

The Parkland Hospital first day Admission Notes for President Kennedy that were filed by Drs. Kemp Clark, Charles Carrico, Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, Robert McClelland and Marion Jenkins immediately after their efforts to resuscitate President Kennedy on November 22, 1963 have the greatest probative value and evidentiary weight out of all of the medical evidence. None of these reports support the existence of the frontal head wound depicted by the fraudulent autopsy photographs and Zapruder film imagery, and all but one of them reference the occipital-parietal wound in the right rear quadrant of the President's head, and report that cerebellar brain tissue was extruding from the wound:

COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 392: APPENDIX VIII - MEDICAL REPORTS FROM DOCTORS AT PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, DALLAS, TEXAS: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/app8.htm

Summary (By Dr. Kemp Clark)

The President arrived at the Emergency Room at 12:43 P. M., the 22nd of November, 1963. He was in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. James Carrico, a Resident in General Surgery.

Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure to be present. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube. While doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.

At this time, Dr. Malcolm Perry, Attending Surgeon, Dr. Charles Baxter, Attending Surgeon, and Dr. Ronald Jones, another Resident in General Surgery, arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. M. T. Jenkins, Director of the Department of Anesthesia, and Doctors Giesecke and Hunt, two other Staff Anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a Bennett respirator to assist the President's breathing. An Anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100% oxygen was administered.

A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for type and crossmatch, but unmatched type "O" RH negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone 300 mgms was added to the intravenous fluids.

Dr. Robert McClelland, Attending Surgeon, arrived to help in the President's care. Doctors Perry, Baxter, and McClelland began a tracheostomy, as considerable quantities of blood were present from the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Paul Peters, Attending Urological Surgeon, and Dr. Kemp Clark, Director of Neurological Surgery arrived. Because of the lacerated trachea, anterior chest tubes were place in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.

Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dialted and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. Not deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.

There was a large wound in the right occipito-parietal region, from which profuse bleeding was occurring. 1500 cc. of blood were estimated on the drapes and floor of the Emergency Operating Room. There was considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.

Further examination was not possible as cardiac arrest occurred at this point. Closed chest cardiac massage was begun by Dr. Clark. A pulse palpable in both the carotid and femoral arteries was obtained. Dr. Perry relieved on the cardiac massage while a cardiotachioscope was connected. Dr. Fouad Bashour, Attending Physician, arrived as this was being connected. There was electrical silence of the President's heart.

President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 hours by Dr. Clark

Kemp Clark, M. D.
Director
Service of Neurological Surgery
KC:aa

cc to Dean's Office, Southwestern Medical School
cc to Medical Records, Parkland Memorial Hospital

______________________________________________________________________________________

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico

When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone.

In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS an tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2^nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anethesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained.

Charles J. Carrico M.D.

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY

Staff Note

At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg.

At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Malcolm O. Perry, M.D.
1630 hr 22 Nov 1963

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER

Note of Attendance to President Kennedy.

I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with .extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2^nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Close chest message was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made.

Charles R. Baxter M.D.
Associate Prof of Surgery
Southwestern Medical School

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

JOHN F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: [KEMP CLARK]

12:20pm to 13:00 hrs

Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well .

The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time.

He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination . The previously described lacerated brain was present.

By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me.

W. Kemp Clark
22 Nov 1963
1615 hrs -

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland

Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy

At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone.

Robert N. McClelland M.D.
Asst. Prof. of Surgery
Southwestern Med.
School of Univ of Tex.
Dallas, Texas

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: BASHOUR

Statement Regarding Assassination of the President of the U.S.A., President Kennedy.

At 12:50 PM, we were called from the 1st floor of Parkland Hospital and told that President Kennedy was shot. Dr. D ?? and myself went to the emergency room of Parkland. Upon examination, the President had no pulsation, no heartbeat, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The president was declared dead at 12:55 P.M.

F. Bashour M.D.
Associate Professor of Cardiology
Southwestern Medical School
Dallas, Texas.

---

THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS
SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL SCHOOL
DALLAS

November 22, 1963
1630

To: Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator Parkland Memorial Hospital

From: M.T. Jenkins, M.D., Professor and Chairman Department of Anesthesiology

Subject: Statement concerning resusciative efforts for President John F. Kennedy

Upon receiving a stat alarm that this distinguished patient was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, I dispatched Doctors A . H. Giesecke and Jackie H. Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area, and I ran down the stairs . On my arrival in the emergency operating room at approximately 1230 I found that Doctors Carrico and/or Delaney had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus . Doctors Charles Baxter, Malcolm Perry, and Robert McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage . Doctors Paul Peters and Kemp Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation.

For better control of artificial ventilation, I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation . Doctors Gene Akin and A . H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube, and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank . All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity .

These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out attention was turned to all other evidences of injury . There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart . With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage .

It is my personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently . However, this cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause the irreversible damage . President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 .

Sincerely,
/s/ M. T. Jenkins
M. T. Jenkins, M.D.

Either all of these doctors -- as well as the other witnesses composing the group of approximately fifty who have attested to the occipital-parietal wound -- were suffering from a simultaneous mass hallucination, or the photographic evidence which contradicts that massive body of testimony is fraudulent. In my opinion, you can't have it both ways without engaging in magical thinking, or else conducting oneself as an online JFK disinformation operative.

 

Edited August 12 by Keven Hofeling

[David Von Pein]

18 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Von Pein responds with references to the photographic forgery of the government...

So the HSCA's Photo Panel was just lying through their collective teeth here, eh? (Yeah, right.)....

"The evidence indicates that the autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner." -- HSCA Vol. 7; Pg. 41

 

Edited August 12 by David Von Pein