Tim Gratz Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 The notion that documents exist within the CIA that could "unravel the whole JFK enigma" is IMO crazy. Someone has suggested that any relevant CIA documents re LHO were destroyed years and years ago--that's what Hunter Leake apparently told Michael Kurtz--and that the problem of the current CIA administration is that there may be some paper trail that discloses that those documents once existed. So how does the CIA explain that relevant documents once existed but were destroyed? Remember that the current officers of the CIA were probably like most of us only teenagers at the time of the assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) Those interested in the Morley v. CIA lawsuit may recall that the CIA was ordered by Judge Richard J. Leon on April 30 to explain in writing by June 11 its failure to release Agency files of George Joannides in contravention of a federal court order from December 2007. See Jeff Morley's article at http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/...till-stonewalls. On June 11, the CIA asked the Court for a further extension until July 2 by which to respond. Out of courtesy, Jeff Morley and his counsel Jim Lesar did not oppose the motion for extension, which was then granted by Judge Leon. The wait begins anew. Steve Edited June 12, 2008 by Steve Rosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Those interested in the Morley v. CIA lawsuit may recall that the CIA was ordered by Judge Richard J. Leon on April 30 to explain in writing by June 11 its failure to release Agency files of George Joannides in contravention of a federal court order from December 2007. See Jeff Morley's article at http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/...till-stonewalls.On June 11, the CIA asked the Court for a further extension until July 2 by which to respond. Out of courtesy, Jeff Morley and his counsel Jim Lesar did not oppose the motion for extension, which was then granted by Judge Leon. The wait begins anew. Steve Thanks for that update Steve, The wheels of justice grind slow. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Dale Myers blog, http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/, contains much commentary about the Joannides lawsuit. There are several good articles, listed below. Mr. Myers thoroughly scrutinizes Mr. Morley's research for perceived factual and logical errors. In the comments section, Mr. Morley issues a sharp rebuttal, and Mr. Myers responds with another in-depth blog. Informative and interesting reading. --- June 14, 2008 CIA Response On Joannides Delayed Again http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/06/cia-r...ayed-again.html --- June 2, 2008 The Last Word: Bringuier, Joannides and the DRE* http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/06/last-...es-and-dre.html *Mr. Myer's response to Jeff Morley's April 12 comment on Mr. Myers' blog entry of February 27. --- March 1, 2008 More JFK Secrets in Sixty Days? http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/03/more-...sixty-days.html --- February 27, 2008 The CIA vs. Jefferson Morley* http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/02/cia-v...son-morley.html *The comments section in this blog contains a response by Jeff Morley from April 12. --- October 22, 2007 'Denied in Full': Federal Judges Grill CIA Lawyers on JFK Secrets http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/10/denie...-grill-cia.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Dale Myers blog, http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/, contains much commentary about the Joannides lawsuit. There are several good articles, listed below. Mr. Myers thoroughly scrutinizes Mr. Morley's research for perceived factual and logical errors. In the comments section, Mr. Morley issues a sharp rebuttal, and Mr. Myers responds with another in-depth blog. Informative and interesting reading. --- June 14, 2008 CIA Response On Joannides Delayed Again http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/06/cia-r...ayed-again.html --- June 2, 2008 The Last Word: Bringuier, Joannides and the DRE* http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/06/last-...es-and-dre.html *Mr. Myer's response to Jeff Morley's April 12 comment on Mr. Myers' blog entry of February 27. --- March 1, 2008 More JFK Secrets in Sixty Days? http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/03/more-...sixty-days.html --- February 27, 2008 The CIA vs. Jefferson Morley* http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/02/cia-v...son-morley.html *The comments section in this blog contains a response by Jeff Morley from April 12. --- October 22, 2007 'Denied in Full': Federal Judges Grill CIA Lawyers on JFK Secrets http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/10/denie...-grill-cia.html Thank you for all of the above, Steven, and for responding to Myers' BS in his comments section and setting him straight. What caught me off guard a little is Myers' final statement: The CIA now has until July 2, 2008 to respond in writing to the appellate court's 2007 ruling. Meanwhile, a group of independent assassination researchers organized by New York attorney Charles J. Sanders have sent a joint letter to Congressman Henry A. Waxman, Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, asking the representative to establish oversight hearings regarding implementation and enforcement of the JFK Records Act. Now I know New York attorney Charles J. Sanders, who came into the case with then law student Mark Zaid, now Esq., and who testified before the Assassinations Records Review Board (ARRB) the same day as I did. Of course COPA has been calling for Congressional oversight hearings of the JFK Act for years now. I wrote a letter to Waxman asking for hearings in 2007 and Lesar wrote one a few weeks ago. Now Myers tells us that Sanders has organized a group of independent assassination researchers who have sent a joint letter to Waxman asking for hearings as well. Welcome to the Fray, Charles. Can anyone provide a copy of this joint letter and the names of anyone else among this group of independent assassination researchers? Certainly we must know some of them. And we should thank Myers for calling attention to the Joannides records and the effort to get JFK Act oversight hearings. BK Edited June 20, 2008 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=16078 Five Fitness Reports on Joannides ...... Feb. 1963: Specific Duty NO. 1 Deputy Chief of Branch handling (in absense of Chief) all aspects political action and psychological warfare and supervising case officers andclerical personnel. NO. 2 Case Officer for student project involving political action, propaganda, intelligence collection and hemisphere-wide apparatus. NO. 3 Case Officer for teacher's organization engaged in hemisphere wide press and radio propaganda NO. 4 Case Officer on project producing news letters aimed at press outlets in Latin America. NO. 5 Maintains contacts with key elements of a veteran's type organization as a developmental project. "...detailed ...as the Agency's Principal Coordinator for work with the House Select Committee on Assassinations..... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Dale Myers' latest report on the Morley v. CIA lawsuit. CIA “Discovers” More Joannides Documents http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/07/cia-d...-documents.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Dale Myers' latest report on the Morley v. CIA lawsuit.CIA "Discovers" More Joannides Documents http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/07/cia-d...-documents.html WHY DO WE HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT CONSPIRACY ADVOCATES SUSPECT FROM A FLUNKY LIKE DKM? BK <H3 class="post-title entry-title">CIA “Discovers” More Joannides Documents </H3>by DALE K. MYERS The CIA asked for an extension earlier this month in the wake of discovering additional documents related to deceased agency operative George Joannides. The substance of those discoveries is unknown and won’t be known, according to journalist Jefferson Morley, for several weeks. In June, the agency had asked Judge Richard Leon for an additional extension (the first one granted back in April) by which to respond to Morley’s lawsuit surrounding documents withheld by the agency relating to secret operations involving Joannides and members of several anti-Castro Cuban exile groups, including the Miami-based DRE. Judge Leon agreed to give the CIA until July 2nd to respond in writing. At the latest hearing (July 2), the CIA asked for a further extension after reportedly discovering additional documents related to the Morley lawsuit. Conspiracy advocates suspect that Joannides might have learned about Lee Harvey Oswald in the summer of 1963 (the official record shows that Oswald’s name was brought to Joannides’ attention immediately after the assassination), and that this knowledge may have been passed on to other agency operatives who might have used Oswald in the weeks prior to the assassination. In response to the 2003 Morley lawsuit, a three-judge appellate court panel ruled in December 2007 that the CIA had to search its files for records of Joannides’ secret operations in 1963, when he served undercover in Miami running "psychological warfare" operations against the government of Fidel Castro. The court also ordered the CIA to explain why 17 reports on Joannides' secret operations in 1962-1964 are missing from the National Archives. Mr. Morley expects to learn more about the CIA’s latest document discoveries and the long sought after explanation for withholding documents on Joannides sometime next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You might be interested in the latest article by Jefferson Morley on the George Joannides case. http://washingtonindependent.com/20770/jfk...ture-of-secrecy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 On September 23, 2008, U.S. District Court Judge Richard J. Leon granted summary judgment in favor of the State Department and dismissed Jefferson Morley and David Talbot's Freedom of Information Act requests for State records on David Morales and George Joannides. Morley and Talbot had asked for passport information, visa papers, code names, and aliases. The State Department released three unredacted passport applications for Joannides and one for Morales, but refused to confirm or deny the existence of any pseudonyms. Judge Leon ruled that the State Department properly cited two FOIA exemptions in failing to comment as to whether or not the requested records even existed in State archives. First, Judge Leon held that pursuant to Executive order governing "Secret" material, the mere confirmation or denial by State of the existence of such alias information would reveal sources and methods and damage national security. Judge Leon agreed with the assertion by Margaret P. Grafeld of the State Department that revealing whether State granted such aliases would undermine the "covert nature" of "intelligence-gathering activities". Second, Judge Leon ruled that the State Department is not compelled to come clean merely because the CIA has already "officially acknowledged" aliases for Morales and Joannides in documents released under the JFK Act. It is unknown if Morley and Talbot are appealing this ruling to the Circuit Court level. Note: The above suit arose from routine FOIA requests from Morley and Talbot. In December 2006, David Talbot filed FOIA requests with the CIA for temporary duty travel records for 1968 and all photographs of George Joannides, Gordon Campbell, and David Morales. (Those proceedings were granted a stay by Judge Leon in August 2007. Their current disposition is unknown but is not affected by Judge Leon's ruling.) Judge Leon's opinion can be found here: https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_p...c?2007cv0277-34 This article by Michael Doyle at http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/law/20...d-alias--1.html summarizes the lawsuit. Will Hilary Clinton's appointment as Secretary of State effect such future similar requests, in light of her that "I will do whatever I can consistent with legitimate concerns about national security to release information"?Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) Jeff Morley's latest article on Joannides and the FOIA: Obama’s Openness v. CIA Secrecy JFK Files Show Hurdles to Obama's Transparency Goals http://washingtonindependent.com/29193/cia-v-foia The most important revelation is that the CIA has now acknowledged in court two "covert projects" that Joannides served on: in Miami 1963, and as the agency's point man for the HSCA in 1978. “Joannides served undercover in both of these assignments,” the CIA chief of information programs stated. Steve (Morley mentions Mickey Kappes from JM/WAVE, but I think he meant Stephen Kappes.) Edited February 6, 2009 by Steve Rosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 This story shows how the UK government is helping to protect CIA classified documents. According to the high court judge, Bush was threatening to cut off intelligence if the UK published this material. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14030 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) This story shows how the UK government is helping to protect CIA classified documents. According to the high court judge, Bush was threatening to cut off intelligence if the UK published this material. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14030 Every time I look at this I wonder if this operative is related to JMWAVE and/or George Joannides in some way..... EFYTHRON.....ERTHYROID ERTHYROID 3, ----- (? ERYTHRYOID 3 ?) Sources: CIA 230-650 re-release as CIA Doc JFK-104-10015-10165 and again as CIA 104-10015-10217, Lifton's pp. 98-100; CIA 255-667 (first released as JFK 104-10015-10254, Lifton's pp. 154-156) Mary's Comments: "Feel ERTHYROID 3 should go MEXI even though Alvarado may be in Mexican hands." Dated 29 Nov 63. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...wRec.do?id=3609 JOANNIDES, GEORGE EFYTHRON ("HOWARD") Sources: CIA Doc JFK 104-10125-10002; America's Secret Eyes In Space, J. Richelson, pp. 157-171 Mary's Comments: DOB: July 5, 1922. SS# 067-18-0743 Wife: Violet. Three children. CIA. In 1962, they lived on SW 65th Avenue in Village of Pinecrest (Dade County, Florida). Life member of AFIO in 1994. Annie Goodpasture was called by Joannides and told that HSCA was trying to get in touch with her. DOD: March 9, 1990; POD: Houston, TX The full text of 104-10015-10254 reads SCELSO 28 Nov 63 TO: MEXICO CITY MANAGUA FROM: DIRECTOR 1. Feel ERTHYROID 3 should go MEXI even though Alvarado may be in Mexican hands. Assume he can be used as consultant at least. That he will know whether he can and should contact Mexican authorities and that MEXI will clear any active use we make of him with the ODENVY rep. ODENVY here knows he is coming to MEXI to help. 2. At 1830 Washington time, which is about 1630 your time, we have not further news or requests. We are going home but can be back and on the wire on short notice. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3 Edited March 9, 2009 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 You Can Handle the Truth by Tara McKelvey for The American Prospect discusses President Obama's promise of transparency. The article includes a brief mention of Joannides and new quotes from G. Robert Blakey. http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articl...andle_the_truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 You Can Handle the Truth by Tara McKelvey for The American Prospect discusses President Obama's promise of transparency.The article includes a brief mention of Joannides and new quotes from G. Robert Blakey. http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articl...andle_the_truth Thanks Steve.... I read the article, and was going to provide the same link for everyone. Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly For your considerations.... Visual Report: The First Impact: JFK While "Hidden Under the 'magic-limbed-ricochet-tree': Z-188, then, Z-203 to 206" Discovery: Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Headsnap: West, Ultrafast, and Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll Homepage: President JOHN F. KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and Assassination Research & Discovery Links Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map: Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise kill zone locations, Witnesses, Films & Photos, Evidence, Suspects & suspected bullet trajectories, & Important information & Considerations Visual File: JFK Assassination Research, Maps, & Discoveries for Your Considerations T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore National Terror Alert for the United States: http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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