The Communication Breakdown

[Tim Gratz]

Mark, would YOU buy a transmission from

"HOPPY'S TRANSMISSION FACTORY 2"?

Just caught James' post. Great, James! We all know James is an astute student of the photographic evidence in the casee.

Someone can research the 1963 Dallas phone directory. For all we know Hoppy had four factories! He made up for the cost in volume!

Edited June 17, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Mark Stapleton]

The penny dropped--finally. $72.50 is ridiculously cheap for a new transmission, even in '63.  (Mark Stapleton)

It might be cheap, Mark, but it seems that 'Hoppy' is doing okay seeing that it is his number 2 factory. 

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

James,

How do you think he got his second factory? It wasn't just pale green ramblers with roof racks, those prices have wide appeal.

[Shanet Clark]

I have an inclusive and sweeping theory, one that articulates and limits the general proposition that "the government did it".

John Kennedy, because of his Addison's disease and treatments (including steroids and amphetamines) his relationship with back channel couriers like LISA HOWARD and back channel communications with Kruschev in the KREMLIN, his affairs with numerous high and low born women, including possible foreign assets, his affair with Timothy Leary's close friend, the artist MARY PINCHOT MEYER, his resistance to an invasion of CUBA and his insistence on a TEST BAN TREATY, was eliminated.

The use of NSA CIA and MILITARY INTELLIGENCE files on Kennedy presented proof of these breaches.

Somewhere in the national security apparatus their are bureaucratic protocols for the investigation of the President's fitness and capacity to serve.

The Twenty Fifth amendment makes it clear that a small group of cabinet level advisers are authorized to remove a President. Whether this is to be publicized or denied is not stated in the 1963-1967 amendment.

General Taylor may well have brought the ultra rich and internationally soiled Secretary of the Treasury into a use of force, called an executive sanction.

The executives who arranged the security, autopsy, burial and film/ Xray record of the Kennedy assassination, the executives who removed Washington DC from phone service and removed the Football's sender and the WH CODE book from the Cabinet ploane over the Pacific, they killed Kennedy and framed Oswald, via cut outs like right wing Cubans.......the responsibility falls back on DULLES, MCCLOY, MCCONE, WALKER and DILLON.

What was done, to the evidence and to Oswald, may be explained by working backward from tactics to strategy, keeping the COLD WAR trilateral (US JAPAN GERMANY) settlement in mind.

One executives "friendship" with another plays very little into this secret bureacratic and deniable chain of events.

The secret service allowed Kennedy to be murdered, and I place the responsibility where it belongs, on this suspect figure, Clarence Douglas Dillon, as part of a joint agency EXECUTIVE SANCTION.

Time will prove this out.

[Ron Ecker]

Just a thought on Lansdale, Taylor, or whoever it was who walked past the tramps as shown in the photo posted earlier. I think a general assumption has been that this fellow walked past them that way in order to assure them that everything was under control, implying of course that one or more of the tramps was involved in the assassination. I think this is wrong, based on my opinion that the ID of the tramps as Doyle, Gedney, and Abrams is probably correct. I suspect that Taylor (that's who I currently believe the man was) walked past the tramps in this manner in order to see who the hell they were. They were real tramps, no one whom Taylor recognized, but he was obviously concerned about somebody, which implies that a shooter or shooters had indeed been on the Grassy Knoll and his/their escape was apparently still not certain.

Ron

[Shanet Clark]

Just a thought on Lansdale, Taylor, or whoever it was who walked past the tramps as shown in the photo posted earlier. I think a general assumption has been that this fellow walked past them that way in order to assure them that everything was under control, implying of course that one or more of the tramps was involved in the assassination. I think this is wrong, based on my opinion that the ID of the tramps as Doyle, Gedney, and Abrams is probably correct. I suspect that Taylor (that's who I currently believe the man was) walked past the tramps in this manner in order to see who the hell they were. They were real tramps, no one whom Taylor recognized, but he was obviously concerned about somebody, which implies that a shooter or shooters had indeed been on the Grassy Knoll and his/their escape was apparently still not certain.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still think it was Lansdale.

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Maxwell Taylor, was not poking around the TBSD with the boxcar arrestees.

But Colonel Lansdale, the Big Indian Dave Morales

and Rip Robertson would have been in the midst.

Taylor's deniability was more important than on-the-ground control,

he was probably away from the site.

[Ron Ecker]

If there's a military coup d'etat going down, and it's my neck on the line (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs), I'm going to be there making decisions. I'm not going to sit somewhere in a meeting with some visitors from West Germany or listen to a pet goat story.

If Taylor was there, he was there to decide on the spot if there was going to be a smooth transition of power ("The Constitution works!") or martial law in America.

"The Constitution worked."

That's how I see it for now.

Ron

[James Richards]

If there's a military coup d'etat going down, and it's my neck on the line (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs), I'm going to be there making decisions. I'm not going to sit somewhere in a meeting with some visitors from West Germany or listen to a pet goat story.

If Taylor was there, he was there to decide on the spot if there was going to be a smooth transition of power ("The Constitution works!") or martial law in America.

"The Constitution worked."

That's how I see it for now.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you, Ron.

I have no problems with any level of the planning being present in Dealey Plaza. This was the President of the United States being assassinated on home soil and with that, I would think it was all hands on deck. Let's get the job done first and go from there.

As the old saying goes, "We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are."

James

[Shanet Clark]

Deniability for the executives would have prevented

them from this operational exposure in Dealey.

I still think the man in the photo is Lansdale.

The fact that a civilian got between the fence and the tramps

and into the middle of the police escort shows that some guys

in suits Dallas outranked uniformed cops that day, and were

allowed to breach normal arrest security protocols.

The sweep teams, Rip Robertson, James McCord, Jim Hicks,

and Edwin Wilson were typical of the rank present at the ambush.

The Executives were held at a full remove from the action.....

[Ron Ecker]

I still think the man in the photo is Lansdale.

I still think, with James, that he looks more like Taylor.

You can say that the "executives" weren't there, but that doesn't change evidence that they were, or at least that they were somewhere other than where they would later claim to have been.

As you know, the official story, detailed in Manchester's book, is that Taylor and the other Joint Chiefs were in all-day meetings on November 22 with West German military guests in the Pentagon. The afternoon sessions were not called off or cut short, according to this story, because, well, the Joint Chiefs wanted to look calm and collected, giving a show of continuity, in this time of national crisis. (Never mind that the West German guests had no idea what had happened. It's nice to look calm and collected anyway.)

It would be revealing to know what support the Joint Chiefs besides Taylor gave to this rather lame story in their writings or biographies. Unfortunately not much seems to be available on most of them, but this is from the Curtis LeMay biography Iron Eagle by Thomas M. Coffey (p. 430): "Everybody old enough to remember can tell you where he was when he heard the news. Curt LeMay recalls that he was in Michigan on leave, but hurried back to Washington in time for the funeral."

Ron

[Bernice Moore]

No difference than JFK in Key West, November, 1962.

Or in many other cities.

So unless one wants to argue his protection was always lax so someone could take a shot at him, there is no evidence of a CHANGE in security preacautions in Dallas.  Sorry, folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*******************

Hello Tim:

You mention what sounds like a laxness also in Florida, but shots were not fired in that city...were they ?? the President was killed in Dallas, Texas, and many shots were fired.....and Greer was driving the limo, and he hit the brakes, and did not obey orders.....????

""When we consider that Greer disobeyed a

direct order from his superior, Roy Kellerman, to get out of line BEFORE

the fatal shot struck the President's head, it is hard to give Agent

Greer the benefit of the doubt.""

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/0010-VP.html

B.....

[Tim Gratz]

Bernice, I understand that JFK was shot in Dallas not in Key West.

But my point was that security in Key West, which JFK visited only a month after the Cuban missile crisis, was no greater than in Dallas, which refutes the theory that security was deliberately loosened in Dallas to permit the assassination.

So perhaps I was so dense I did not catch your point.

[Mark Stapleton]

I agree with Bernice. To think that the SS failure in Dallas was just a few errors in the heat of the moment is to badly misinterpret the evidence. These agents were highly trained in protection and the agents under suspicion (Greer, Roberts and Boring) were experienced agents, not beginners.

On the question of Lansdale or Taylor, it looks scarily like Taylor. The only problem is that it would mean Manchester was wrong. Was he fed incorrect data by someone or was he right?

[Ron Ecker]

On the question of Lansdale or Taylor, it looks scarily like Taylor. The only problem is that it would mean Manchester was wrong. Was he fed incorrect data by someone or was he right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark,

I think Manchester was fed wrong information and then let literary license take over. We know at least that he was not entirely correct. In going into all the detail about the American and German officers trying to out-spiffy each other with the fruit salad on their uniforms and so forth, Manchester, writing as if he were there, should have pointed out that Curtis LeMay was absent. I think the absence of LeMay at any JCS meeting would be quite noticeable.

If anyone has a copy of McNamara's book In Retrospect, I'd appreciate knowing what he says about meeting with the JCS that day after the news came from Dallas. Did he talk to Taylor? Curtis LeMay?

Ron

[David G. Healy]

Ron Ecker wrote:

[...]

If Taylor was there, he was there to decide on the spot if there was going to be a smooth transition of power ("The Constitution works!") or martial law in America.

"The Constitution worked."

That's how I see it for now.

______________________

Taking the pulse of America on Nov 22nd '63 from Dealey Plaza seems a bit naive, if you ask me. I wasn't stateside when the assassination happened. However, it was business as usual in southeast asia for the next few months...

For America, immediately following the assassination, I suspect and been told -- STUNNED is the appropriate word, all across America. I'd say the American public was pliable the following months, subject to anything that came from the WH. No, ZERO martial law required.

Having Taylor, a "full" US Army General in harms way during a field operation, coup or otherwise, won't happen. Hell, if I was that General I'd think TWICE before I'd be there and think 3-4 times more if REQUESTED to be there. I might be the intended target, too! Who better to get out of the way at the same time? The Military CIC (Commander-in-Chief, the President) and his military forces commander, Taylor...

[Ron Ecker]

Taking the pulse of America on Nov 22nd '63 from Dealey Plaza seems a bit naive, if you ask me.

David,

Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I meant. Taylor being there to make decisions on the spot would have nothing to do with "taking the pulse of America." It had to do with whether, for example, JFK was shot as he was shot, or whether it would have been necessary to blow up the overpass, burying the limo in rubble and killing everyone aboard. Had that or something similar been necessary, something other than a lone nut scenario was called for, and somebody had to make the decision pretty fast on what would be said to the nation that evening to explain this. Was it Castro? That was probably the plan, but remember that Oswald got taken alive, apparently ruining that plan. The conspirators would have had a fine kettle of fish on their hands. Martial law? It possibly could have come to that.

If that's Taylor in the photo, he must have been worried than somebody had been taken and it wasn't Oswald, and he came out to see who it was. In any case, as Mark said earlier, the man looks "scarily like Taylor." As hard as that may be to accept or believe, remember that Al Carrier used to insist how ridiculous it was to think that Conein or Robertson or any other such operative would show his face at Main and Houston or be anywhere near the area. But even Al came to accept that Conein was there as well as a fellow from Laos on the lamp post. That said, I imagine Al will say it's ridiculous to think Taylor was there, but I'm going so far by what I see in the photo and by what smells like a phony cover story about Taylor being in a meeting at the Pentagon that day. Maybe, in spite of LeMay's absence, there was such a meeting, but if there wasn't, and Taylor wasn't in Dallas, where was he?

One other thought. If Taylor was in Dallas and his presence had come to light, he had a legitimate excuse to use for being there. Yitzhak Rabin, who on January 1 would become Israel’s military chief of staff, was winding up a U.S. tour. His final stop, conveniently enough, was Fort Bliss, Texas. His wife Leah says in her book that Rabin was in Dallas shortly before the assassination.

Taylor was at the Honolulu Conference that was held on November 20. It would make perfect sense for Taylor, on his way back to Washington from Hawaii, to stop in Dallas and meet with his soon-to-be Israeli counterpart.

Ron

Edited June 26, 2005 by Ron Ecker