Waiting for Godot: John Geraghty & the Tramps

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I skipped work today (the weather is too hot in Long Island) and instead took my first look at John Geraghty's new website http://www.thepresidenthasbeenshot.4t.com/index.html.

John is a fellow member of this forum, so I am biased in his favor, but he is also a student at University College Dublin, which happens to be my Alma Mater (Batchelor of Civil Law, 1971). I believe that John Henry Cardinal Newman, UCD's first Chancellor, would be proud of John's website as I am, and would extend heartiest congratulations, as I do.

John, I need more time to fully explore the site, but for now I must say that I especially like the section on the TRAMP PHOTOS, and the more you can present on this issue the better, IMHO. This area continues to be neglected by researchers who were fooled by Robert Blakey's committment to "science" and by the various phonies (e.g. the La Fontaines) who have worked to obscure the truth about these photos and the persons they represent.

Here I must note that in your excellent short list of books on the case you highlight the pioneering contribution of Alan J. Weberman, who is also a member of this forum.

Keep up the good work,John,

Slan agus Beannacht.

[Christopher T. George]

John, nice to see your tramps research. I do note that on one page you show a photograph labeled as Sturgis but on another page say the same photo is Howard Hunt.

Chris

[Ron Ecker]

I feel obliged to point out a couple of inaccuracies in John’s discussion of the tramps.

John states:

“Sturgis is accused of being the small tramp with black hair at the front of the line-up. This theory is put forth mainly by A.J. Weberman and Mike Canfield in their book ‘coup d’etat in America’”

This is not true. Weberman and Canfield claim in their book that Sturgis was the tall tramp with blond hair (obviously dyed hair or a wig). They claim that the small tramp (Frenchy) was a CIA killer known as Daniel Carswell. Weberman wrote in the book that his source on Carswell was Gerry Patrick Hemming. (My favorite line from the book: “I liked Hemming, though he did try to frame me.”)

John’s website is in fact the only place I have seen that suggests Sturgis was the small tramp. Aside from dark hair I don’t see the resemblance at all.

John also states:

“Holt named the other two tramps as Charles Harrelson and Charles Rogers.”

I believe this is also incorrect. Holt claimed that the small tramp was known to him as Richard Montoya, which turned out to be a named used by Rogers. Holt did not say the tramp was Rogers, which is a good thing for Holt, since there is not the slightest resemblance between the small tramp and Rogers.

That said, there are other things that tend to discredit Holt, whose story John seems to put a lot of stock in (or, I should say, in which John seems to put a lot of stock). First, there is the fact that Holt was apparently years younger than the tramp he claimed to be and didn’t look that much like him. Second, would a seasoned crook hired by the Mafia and/or CIA to deliver false credentials for a big job on a certain morning arrive just in time to make the delivery, thus risking not getting there at all due, say, to car trouble, instead of arriving maybe a day ahead of time, preferably by air? Holt claimed to have arrived late that morning, having driven non-stop in a car with some other smart-planning gangsters, all the way from Arizona. (From Holt's interview on Wim's website: “We had some car trouble, some bad weather, and it took longer to drive than we thought.” Duh.)

Third, according to Dave Perry, in an ASK conference press kit (Holt himself didn’t show up) Holt claimed that he prepared the “Fair Play for Cuba” handouts for Oswald in New Orleans. Actually the handouts were prepared by the Jones Printing Company, with Oswald (using the alias Osborne) paying $9.89 for them. (It’s possible, of course, that Jones Printing Company was a CIA front, as most companies seem to be, and that Holt was busy at work behind the curtain.)

Fourth, Holt said that E. Howard Hunt “was falsely identified as the person I claim to be.” Wouldn’t most people naturally refer to themselves as “me”? How many people (besides possible mental ward patients) have you ever heard refer to themselves as “the person I claim to be”?

Ron

Edited July 27, 2005 by Ron Ecker

[Tim Gratz]

Ron wrote:

That said, there are other things that tend to discredit Holt, whose story John seems to put a lot of stock in (or, I should say, in which John seems to put a lot of stock).

I admire Ron for his diligent adherence to the rule which prohibits ending a clause with a preposition. It reminds me of the story of when a grand dame admonished Sir Winston for violating the rule. To which Sir Winston replied, reportedly without blinking an eye: "Madam, that is the sort of impudence up with which I shall not put!"

That being saiod, I agree with the substance of Ron's post as well.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[John Geraghty]

Raymond,

Many thanks for your comments on the site. I'm actually moving to maynooth College for the next year so that my travel time will be cut.

Ron,

Thanks for pointing out the innaccuracies on the site, I will get on them tomorrow morning. I was always under the impression that Weberman believed that Sturgis was the small tramp, due to the hair.

With regards to Holt, I'm still not sure on the his story, but I am leaning more towards believeing him. As I have said before, I see no reason for Holt to have lied to his daughter karyn on his deathbed about his role in the kennedy assassination. Larry Hancock told me that she presented at a Lancer conference on the evidence her father had produced.

As you know I corresponded with Harrelson and he assured me that Holt was lying. If you take a step back and think who do I believe?, a man who swore to his daughter on his death bed and has CIA details in his possession, or a man who is serving time for the contract murder of a judge.

Its a difficult part of the case, one which my mind is not made entirely up on, but i feel the evidence points towards Holt.

Having said all this relatives of Gedney, Dolye and Abrams all told their family that they were indeed the tramps, so what reason would they have to lie.

I'm going to have a re-think of my tramps page after this discussion and perhaps be a bit more level headed.

The quote from A.J. Weberman is priceless! I also enjoyed the video of Weberman and Hemming talking on his website.

I'm not ready to fully embrace Chauncey Holts story, though I do lean towards it. Perhaps further research into both Mr.Holt and Gedney,Doyle and Abrams would shed some light on the situation.

Cheers again Raymond.

Go raibh maith agat

John Geraghty

Edited July 28, 2005 by John Geraghty

[John Geraghty]

As far as I can tell Holt says that he provided documentation for Oswald and says nothing about giving him the leaflets.

He asid that he was present when the leaflets were handed out and when Carlos Bringuer arrived.

John

[Christopher T. George]

Hi John

I am not sure I would necessarily trust a deathbed confession to one's daughter or to anyone else. People confess to committing crimes or to assisting in crimes all the time for whatever reason--it's a regular phenomenon seen in a lot of cases. In the Jack the Ripper case, scores of people wrote letters claiming to be the murderer.

Another example is that the Chauncey Holt "confession" might be akin, somewhat, to the revelation made to his own family by former FBI official Mark W. Felt that he was "Deep Throat." John Simkin has raised some doubts on this forum about whether Felt could have revealed all of the information that Woodward and Bernstein credit to him. While I am not saying Felt was not a source for Woodward, it is possible that in revealing himself to have been "Deep Throat" Felt was claiming more for himself than he actually did in terms of providing information to Woodward. That is, the aging Felt chose to invest himself in the mantle of the myth of "Deep Throat" as depicted in All The President's Men rather than the possibly lesser role that he actually played. Just a thought.

All my best

Chris

Edited July 28, 2005 by Christopher T. George

[John Geraghty]

Christopher,

Interesting analogy you make. I don't think we will know the identity of these tramps until we have some hard evidence, and not just confessions or confirmations from family members.

As I have written on my website I believe we can choose from the three groups Holt et al, Hunt et al or gedney et al. Take your pick. The gedney group would suggest nothing suspicious, any of the other two groups prove a conspiracy existed.

John

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Its a difficult part of the case, one which my mind is not made entirely up on, but i feel the evidence points towards Holt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with Ron & Christopher that Holt is a phoney, (you might want to check Dave Perry's site for his take on Holt) and I also think that anyone who says that Harold Doyle is "Frenchy" should view the photographs again when the LSD is out of their system.

But as far as I know there is no single up-to-date objective (and authoritative) source of info on all the various tramp theories, and the challenge to you, John, is to make your site fill that gap. It is clear that you can get valuable feedback from this forum, and you would be performing a signal service to the research community.

Good luck in your transfer to Maynooth College. I hope you will be pleased to know that the horniest girl I ever knew was a student at Maynooth.

[John Geraghty]

I hope you will be pleased to know that the horniest girl I ever knew was a student at Maynooth.

Im nearly crying with happiness Raymond. The tramps shall be my next project. Does anyone know any good facial experts by any chance. I think I shall look down this avenue. I know Lois Gibson has identified the tramps as Holt, Harrelson, Rogers but I would like to get a second opinion.

John

[Ron Ecker]

Lois Gibson has identified the tramps as Holt, Harrelson, Rogers but I would like to get a second opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My opinion is that Lois Gibson doesn't know what she's talking about. She can sue me.

Ron

[John Geraghty]

Oh Ron,

nobody could sue you.

John

[Jack White]

Hi John

I am not sure I would necessarily trust a deathbed confession to one's daughter or to anyone else.  People confess to committing crimes or to assisting in crimes all the time for whatever reason--it's a regular phenomenon seen in a lot of cases.  In the Jack the Ripper case, scores of people wrote letters claiming to be the murderer. 

Another example is that the Chauncey Holt "confession" might be akin, somewhat, to the revelation made to his own family by former FBI official Mark W. Felt that he was "Deep Throat."  John Simkin has raised some doubts on this forum about whether Felt could have revealed all of the information that Woodward and Bernstein credit to him.  While I am not saying Felt was not a source for Woodward, it is possible that in revealing himself to have been "Deep Throat" Felt was claiming more for himself than he actually did in terms of providing information to Woodward.  That is, the aging Felt chose to invest himself in the mantle of the myth of "Deep Throat" as depicted in All The President's Men rather than the possibly lesser role that he actually played.  Just a thought.

All my best

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris, I agree with your points above. I am particularly

suspicious of the Felt confession, since one of the stories

said he was in the early stages of Alzheimers and did

not really remember the events. How convenient.

Jack

[Mark Knight]

To add to Jack's comments about Felt...perhaps Felt was being used here. In his current mental state, he's obviously in no condition to dispute the stories being told by his family, lawyer, and "Woodstein"...so they might have all colluded to paint Felt--obviously a source, but not necessarily the source--as Deep Throat, and then those who accepted this explanation would walk away, allowing the real Deep Throat to remain anonymous.

[Guest John Gillespie]

I hope you will be pleased to know that the horniest girl I ever knew was a student at Maynooth.

Im nearly crying with happiness Raymond. The tramps shall be my next project. Does anyone know any good facial experts by any chance. I think I shall look down this avenue. I know Lois Gibson has identified the tramps as Holt, Harrelson, Rogers but I would like to get a second opinion.

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wim Dankbaar (member here) has a link with the stuff you want:

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/lois1.htm

JAG (john Arkins Gillespie, to be sure)