headshot head movements

[Bill Miller]

What needs to be considered is the changes in direction indicated by the cross bar. IOW if there is no change of direction on a level surface then a line indicating the alignment on the cross bar (on properly aligned frames) will have a common vanishing point.

IMO: While viewing the frames individually gives an idea. One needs to

properly align the frames

check the relative angles of the crossbar frame by frame

in order to get a correct view of limo direction of travel

Does that make sense?

I think it would make good sense if we were dealing with an actual head trun like you had first thought and if were were looking over many frames. The fact still remains that JFK's head didn't really make that abrubt twist as you first thought when Z312 and Z314 are examined and overlaid onto one another. The direction of travel could not have changed very much within 2/18ths of a second and with the limo barely rolling - don't you think? The FBI said that when the car was coming down the street that it was moving forward at 11" per film frame. At the time JFK was fatally shot ... the limo was nearly stopped, so just how much turning could Greer have accomplished at that point ... I think that it is almost nill, thus it has little to nothing to do with the bend in the street over those three film frames. So what I am saying is that I cannot see how it is possible that JFK could have had his head vilolently wrenched to the side and come back to center within one film frame adn then consider the cars line of travel in two to three frames with the limo at a near standstill in the street.

Bill

Edited April 23, 2006 by Bill Miller

[John Dolva]

OK, not being able to see the clip is a handicap. I'm sure there are ways around it.

This is a sketch of the head and corresponding crossbars, frame by frame.

Firstly the alignment of the frames gives such a smooth clip.

What can be seen is this:

The cross bar changes its vanishing line at certain points. One of these is after the headshot.

The way I interpret this is that at this point the Limo changed direction of travel.

This seems logical to me.

If there had not been a direction change then the vanishing point would match that of the previous frame.

I think there are significant direction changes that contribute to loose items such as a dead head appearing to move while in fact it is the objects around it that moves. One of the laws of physics : an object maintains its movement qualities unless acted on by an outside force. With the limo changing direction or speed that object in the limo that is not tied to the limo keeps going as it was.

I think this is an important point in understanding the left and to the back movement.

(Also as can be seen the limo certainly never came to a 'virtual standstill'. Unless it did so in 1/9 of a second from a speed of around 10 mph and then accelerated to the previous speed (and then stopped accelerating) in another 1/9 of a second and settled back to the previous speed. Patently absurd (IMO))

(PS I don't conced that I'm wrong about the head turn etc.I concede you have raised an important point which I'm looking into. This will take a bit of time as I'm making a number enhancements and clips out of which one set will have to do. Perhaps the result will be an agreement with what you say, perhaps not... and so on.)

Edited April 23, 2006 by John Dolva

[Bill Miller]

(PS I don't conced that I'm wrong about the head turn etc.I concede you have raised an important point which I'm looking into. This will take a bit of time as I'm making a number enhancements and clips out of which one set will have to do. Perhaps the result will be an agreement with what you say, perhaps not... and so on.)

No problem, John.

Another thought .... The limo's crossbar is turning away from Zapruder with each frame. You also have a bullet slamming into his skull and alegedly twisting it in the same direction as the crossbar is turning ... now does it make sense that his face would still be seen in virtually the same profile in Z314 as it was in Z312 .... I say that is beyond the realm of plausible and that the head didn't really twist in Z313.

Bill

[John Dolva]

Perhaps yes,Bill. One (brief) thought that occurs to me is that with the shoulder raised as it is, the head, in snapping with the twist face away from Zapruder and top head tilt towards Z, or rather the muscles in the neck, first strikes the upraised bunched muscles of the upper shoulder which is pretty solid. 313 is at this point.

In striking the shoulder the head wants to continue along this direction but now only the front part of the head can, so : the profile is restored. At the same time the so called 'back and to the left' movement starts : 314

______________________________

on the map

The centre line of the road is marked (this is Elm below Zapruders pedestal)

A series of straight lines perpendicular to the centre line.

____________

In the top inset this map is placed in !A3D and turned away and positioned to a rough view of what Z saw. This view shows the portion of the map the inset is placed over.

So: If he Limo had been travelling along the centre this may be how lines extended from the crossbar would be seen on a series of frames.

________________________

The lower inset is a copy of the one posted larger before in above post. This is the crossbar extended as various converging and diverging and parallel lines as derived from the z film. This is not matched exactly to the 'centreline crossbars' beacause the actual area it covers is not carefully considered here. This was just an attempt to see if crossbar lines as worked out before bear any semblance to what they might have been. I think they do.

Edited April 23, 2006 by John Dolva

[Bill Miller]

"So: If he Limo had been travelling along the centre this may be how lines extended from the crossbar would be seen on a series of frames."

John ... when the limo was gliding down Elm Street it was said to be covering about 11" per Zfilm frame. The limo's speed had been cut in half, if not more when the head shot occurred, so we are talking about it rolling forward 3" to 5" ... hardly enough to effect anything.

Bill

[John Dolva]

"So: If he Limo had been travelling along the centre this may be how lines extended from the crossbar would be seen on a series of frames."

John ... when the limo was gliding down Elm Street it was said to be covering about 11" per Zfilm frame. The limo's speed had been cut in half, if not more when the head shot occurred, so we are talking about it rolling forward 3" to 5" ... hardly enough to effect anything.

Bill

a closer look at limo direction and distance travelled between successive frames.

[John Dolva]

If a head presented side on to a viewer is tilted towards the viewer, different planes of the head creates the profile.

as can be seen here in this short clip. A 3D model is tilted from kennedys left to his right (place something like a penclil to cover the ear from beginning to end, you'll find that the pen will be approximately 11.30 - 5.30. While this happens the back of the head appears to move forward, as does the front of the head.

So a simple left to right movement in this instance, in 2d appears as a forward snap,

it's not,

it's a simple left to right snap!!!

This addresses a couple of the concerns raised like the width of the hair at the back and tha darker spot under the chin.Similarly the curvature of the back of the head.. It also makes matching the autopsy photos easier.

[Bill Miller]

"So a simple left to right movement in this instance, in 2d appears as a forward snap,

it's not,

it's a simple left to right snap!!!"

John, my concern is that you are trying to get information out of a terribly blurred image (Z313). I again feel that it is impossible for JFK to have turned his head in Z313 because of the blunt force of a bullet's impact to his skull and then come back to its original forward direction within the next 1/18th of a second. I personally believe that had JFK's head of been turned by that abrupt impact, then it would have continued to be turned for several film frames before coming back into profile as we see it in Z314.

Bill

Edited May 7, 2006 by Bill Miller

[John Dolva]

No worries Bill. The twist you are talking about is as of today history. It was an interpretation of 313 that made sense in isolation.

I didn't realise just how a head profile with all its shaded and illuminated planes behave when you have someone sitting with their shoulders and head as in the zfilm, and then simply tilt their head in an arc from their left to the right. at one point in the arc the profile and features match very nicely with 313. Then a tilt back and a rear movement bring us to 314.All nice and smooth. this clip needs to be looked at to understand ( 313-314 and a combo coming up.)

[Bill Miller]

Turning and tilting of the head appears just from the limo traveling from left to right across Zapruder's field of view. One such example is offered below.

Bill

[John Dolva]

If a head presented side on to a viewer is tilted towards the viewer, different planes of the head creates the profile.

as can be seen here in this short clip. A 3D model is tilted from kennedys left to his right (place something like a penclil to cover the ear from beginning to end, you'll find that the pen will be approximately 11.30 - 5.30. While this happens the back of the head appears to move forward, as does the front of the head.

So a simple left to right movement in this instance, in 2d appears as a forward snap,

it's not,

it's a simple left to right snap!!!

This addresses a couple of the concerns raised like the width of the hair at the back and tha darker spot under the chin.Similarly the curvature of the back of the head.. It also makes matching the autopsy photos easier.

312-314

[Bill Miller]

John, with all due respect ... while it is possible for a bullet moving at 2000fps to smash into a skull and cause it to start to rotate within 1/18th of a second, it is impossible for the President to have reacted and brought his head back to center in the next 1/18th of a second. It is because of this that I am certain you have misread Z313.

Crossbar rotatation between Z312 and Z314

Bill

[John Dolva]

Bill,

1. there is reason to believe that in 312 the bullet is just about to exit the skull. Stll looking into it.

the movement or energy absorption is already happening. The cavitation that produces the bulk of the ejecta indicates that this is just about to start happening in 312.

However

2. either way we are talking 1/9 of a second headsnap 312-314, roughly 25 degrees right 30 degrees left.

The impact energy of a supersonic bullet is roughly equivalent to a slow (at human swung speed) sledgehammer.

_____________

Gif. ::: However, parallel lines in perspective rotate as you pan. If you look at that bunch of crossbars around this set, you see they do not smoothly flow as they should. The near parallel itself of 312(leaving out 313)to 314 indicates an arc around Zapruder. The frames prior to 312 indicates an arc around the south. after 314 a series of parallel lines indicate the end of the arc around z and a straight travel (there is a slight wiggle here and there) see the image above post(btw all this imapcts on the rotational component you describe elsewhere.)

Edited May 8, 2006 by John Dolva

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

1. there is reason to believe that in 312 the bullet is just about to exit the skull. Stll looking into it.

the movement or energy absorption is already happening. The cavitation that produces the bulk of the ejecta indicates that this is just about to start happening in 312.

John, it is good to have ideas about what could have happened, but be sure that your conclusion can account for "all" the things that would have to apply to make it be plausible. For instance, if my understanding of blood spatter is correct ... had a bullet of already entered JFK's skull in Z312 and was about to exit it, then the initial impact site would be visible when it came to the release of the cranial fluid and I see no sign of this. I offer an example of how this works below with something as small as as strawberry.

2. either way we are talking 1/9 of a second headsnap 312-314, roughly 25 degrees right 30 degrees left.

The impact energy of a supersonic bullet is roughly equivalent to a slow (at human swung speed) sledgehammer.

John, the violent transfer of momentum is quite obvious between Z312 and Z313, thus I find it hard to believe that such an impact would only cause a 1/9th of a second head snap.

But the point that I think you are missing is that JFK could not have been shot in the head causing his head to be turned in any direction due to the transfer of momentum from a bullet smashing into his skull and then he somehow righted himself within the next 1/18th of a second. I still feel that you have fallen for an illusion caused by the poor quality visual of the President's head in Z313 and are trying to dance with an impossibility to validate your observation.

Bill

[John Dolva]

Bill, look closely at the top of the hairline of 312, bearing in mind what I'm theorising here.

There are innumerasble non supersonic bullet impact induced movements in the films that show considerable movements frame by frame.

A minor point, after the headshot cavitation Kennedy didn't right himself. A barely living bag of bones, tissues and fluids held up by such things as various tissues and a steel rod tightly wrapped with cloth brace obeys, sans voluntary muscle, according to various predictable forces.

I find no difficulty validating the idea in many ways, I'd welcome a serious blow to it, perhaps from which the conclusion is indeed 'no way,

so far it's 'yes way'.

Edited May 8, 2006 by John Dolva