Evan Burton Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 No problems, Duane, but it would seem Michael wants me to enforce a total ban on the word. I'll consult with other Mods, but until I can get further guidance on this, the use of the word xxxx is forbidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hogan Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 No problems, Duane, but it would seem Michael wants me to enforce a total ban on the word.I'll consult with other Mods, but until I can get further guidance on this, the use of the word xxxx is forbidden. Evan, let me preface my remarks by saying this: Recently, in another thread John Simkin shared his thoughts on the fine job the moderators are doing. I'm in support of anything that takes some of the work and/or stress from administering this part of the Forum off of John's shoulders. By and large, I think the moderators have done a good job. I respect John for what he is trying to accomplish here, and I respect you as well. Having said that, I really don't care how you and the other moderators choose to enforce that rule, as long as it is consistent and as long as it seems to be in accordance with what John intended when he wrote it. I do think John composed the rules in a straightforward manner and as such they do not require individual "interpretations" per se. From my point of view, some members are fond of quoting the letter of the law so to speak and yet violate the spirit of the laws (rules) on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 (edited) From my point of view, some members are fond of quoting the letter of the law so to speak and yet violate the spirit of the laws (rules) on a regular basis. Amen. I find it silly to ban the word l***, but I can live with it for on-Forum persons. IF that word can not be applied to political, historical and public persons et al. I'm bailing out and would consider the Forum a sad victim of 'political correctness' in its 'newsspeak' manifestation. One can not explore the full spectrum of thought without the full spectrum of the language. The word exists to express a concept. The concept can be expressed usi g other words anyway, and some are very good at violating the spirit - which I think is not about words, but: Civility. That is what should be demanded AND some effort made to see where incivility COMES from [starts]. There are some on this forum 'talented' in provoking others a whole lot of the time. I think the issue of my posting style has pretty much been beaten to death after two locked threads and 8 pages. A few moderators have given me positive feed back about my posts/conduct and I have yet to be admonished by one I don't think you can make a similar claim. Do you consider calling other members of the forum Nazis, "clowns", "poison" etc civil? Disagreeing with people is not uncivil nor does it violate the letter or spirit of any forum rules. Edited September 4, 2007 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Do you consider calling other members of the forum Nazis, "clowns", "poison" etc civil? Len ... I am replying to this question because I have been accused of the exact same thing by you ... Why do you insist on playing this tired game ? .... Peter and I both have used similar terms out of the frustration and in retaliation of being constantly PROVOKED and GOADED by you and a few other members here who play the same game as you do .... Why can't you just discuss the issues here without constantly attacking the members you strongly disagree with ? ... There are many forums where members are banned for this type of behavior . Disagreeing with people is not uncivil nor does it violate the letter or spirit of any forum rules. No , disagreeing with people is not uncivil , nor does it violate the spirit of any forum , but PROVOKING , GOADING , and RIDICULING other people does . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) I think that my interpreting the rule was doing exactly what you asked, Micheal - I was trying to determine what the intent, the spirit of the rule was. My interpretation of the rule was that it was not meant to prevent people expressing their disgust with other people or accusing them of willful deception, but meant to mean that if that object of scorn was a member here, then such denigration would take place in a civilised manner. For instance, for someone to say of me: "I think his opinions - and that is what they are - are illthought, without regard to the facts, and worth as little as a $3 bill in a Banana Republic. For the most part, what he says is inaccurate or irrelevant." Would be acceptable. On the other hand, to say: "He is a cheat and a xxxx and acts only to cover the tracks of a blundering government, because that is what he is paid to do." Would not be acceptable. I have no doubt you have the capacity to correctly judge what is, and what is not acceptable. Restriction on the use of the word xxxx is lifted, and it may be used within the intent of the rules. Edited September 5, 2007 by Evan Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Do you consider calling other members of the forum Nazis, "clowns", "poison" etc civil? Len ... I am replying to this question because I have been accused of the exact same thing by you ... Why do you insist on playing this tired game ? .... Peter and I both have used similar terms out of the frustration and in retaliation of being constantly PROVOKED and GOADED by you and a few other members here who play the same game as you do Yes you keep saying that, whether it’s true or not is a different story. Until and unless a moderator or administrator makes a complaint I’m done with the topic of my post history except on the new thread I started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org List of Members (updated regularly) Robert Balsamo 4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI Corporate Chief Pilot 135 Capt 121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret) 30,000+ Total Flight Time 707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777 Pan Am, United United States Air Force (ret) Over 100 Combat Missions Flown Has time in: - N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93) - N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175) John Lear Son of Bill Lear (Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation) More than 40 years of Flying 19,000+ TT 23 Type ratings Flight experience includes 707, DC-8, 727, L10-11 Jeff Latas -Over 20 years in the USAF --USAF Accident investigation Board President --Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E --Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch --Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon --Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level -Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways Guy S. Razer, LtCol, USAF (Ret) 3,500+ Hours Total Flight Time F-15E/C, F-111A/D/E/F/EF, F-16, F-18, B-1, Mig-29, SU-22, T-37/38, Various Cvilian Prop Combat Time: Operation Northern Watch USAF Fighter Weapons School Instructor NATO Tactical Leadership Program Instructor/Mission Coordinator USAF Material Command Weapons Development Test Pilot Combat Support Coordination Team 2 Airpower Coordinator, South Korea All Service Combat Identification Evaluation Team Operations Officer Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor MS Aeronautical Studies, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University Field McConnell 23,000+ hours CV580,DC9,MD80,B727,A320,DC10 NCA,REP,NWA A4,F4,F16 USN,USMC, ND ANG www.captainsherlock.com Forced to retire due 9/11 exposure www.hawkscafe.com Captain Paul A. Trood B737-800/400 Captain Qantas Airways Australia Experience: 18,000 flight hours Jim Mustanich ATP 20,000+ hours Typed in CE-500, DHC-7, EMB-110, BA-3100 Aircraft flown include Boeing 727,737, Douglas DC-9, MD-80 United Air Lines, American International Airlines, Air Pacific Airlines, West Air Airlines 6-7 years corporate flying in Cessna Citations Factory demo pilot for Cessna Citations Ted Muga Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR A/C experience - Grumman E-1 and E-2 ( Approx, 3800 hours ) Pan American World Airways - Retired Dec. 1991 ( that's when PanAM went bankrupt ) Flight Engineer/First Officer -- Boeing 707 & Boeing 727 ( approx. 7500 hours ) Col Robert Bowman President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies Executive Vice President of Millennium III Corporation retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church 101 combat missions in Vietnam directed all the “Star Wars” programs under Presidents Ford and Carter recipient of the Eisenhower Medal George F. Kennan Peace Prize President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace Society of Military Engineers' ROTC Award of Merit (twice) Six Air Medals Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech chaired 8 major international conferences one of the country’s foremost experts on National Security independent candidate for President of the US in 2000 John Panarelli friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11 ATP: L-300, B-737, DC-10, DC-8, FE, TT=approx. 11,000 hours USAF-C141-IP, Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford United States Marine Corps (ret) A-4 Skyhawk, KC-130 (10,000+ hours) S-2, T-1, F9F, F-11, OV-10, T–2J 303 Combat Missions "DG" 10,000TT Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines Director of Operations Training at Polar Air Cargo, and Asst. Chief Pilot for Presidential Air Manager of Flying for Eastern Airlines Falcon 900 and a G-200 Check Captain B737,A300, Da-50, G-200 and C-500 FE, A&P. Dennis Spear Army Aviator 20+ years - United States Army 7000 TT in a variety of fixed and rotary wing aircraft C-23, C-7, U-21,U-8, T-39, EH-60, UH-60, UH-1, OH-58 Instrument Flight Examiner, Fixed Wing Instructor Pilot, H-60 Maintenance Test Pilot Operations Officer, Aviation Safety Officer FAA Commercial Pilot - ASMEL, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Instrument Airplane/Helicopter Alfons Olszewski Veterans For Truth Vietnam Veteran Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief MOS: 67V20 qualified on Cobras, Hueys, and Loch Helicopters George Nelson Colonel USAF (Ret.) 30 year career managing aircraft maintenance activities Licensed commercial pilot Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic Aircraft accident investigator Larry Patriarca USN Aviation Structural Mechanic VAQ 135, EA-6B Squadron, 1983-86 Coordinator for Central Mass 9/11 Truth Alliance Member of Veterans for 9/11 Truth Associate Member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth Captain Steve Nieman 30 year Capt with Horizon Air Q400 Joel Skousen USMC Fighter/Attack Pilot (Vietnam Era) 1000+ TT, F-4, A-4, F-9, T-2C, various civilian planes Commercial Pilot w/ Instrument, multi-engine ratings EAA and AOPA member Colonel Michael Harley USAF (ret) Command pilot ~ 6000 Total Flight Time T-38,T-33, T-37,T-39, C-47, U-6, Uh-1, C130A, B, E, & prototype H, Kc-135 and B-52. 26 years commissioned. 34 Years total service USAF Accident Investigator Instructor Accident Investigation, Embry-Riddle University Management analyst and IG, simulator instructor, Instructor Pilot, Standardization Evaluation Pilot, Chief of Standardization of a Sac Wing equipped with B-52, RC-135 and Kc-135 Flew Cessna 177, Twin Bonanza, Cherokee-6 ~200 hours as civilian private pilot Newspaper columnist for 10 years, now a freelance writer Mathias Frey Switzerland C340, C402 CPL/IR ATPL “frozen” 500 hrs TT 5000+ hrs on ASTRAS, INTRAS and TOSIM, ATC Simulation Assistant JAR OPS Transition Air Engiadina Project Manager Air Alps Aviation Jeff Dahlstrom C-141 pilot in the early 70's during the Vietnam era: 2nd AF, 432nd MAWg, 18th Sq, MacGuire AFB, NJ. Pilot training was class 70-06, at Laughlin AFB, Tx Joe H. Ferguson Retired Capt. 30,000TT 5,000 FE USAF Ret. T-6, T -28, B-25, B-29, KC-97 Frontier, Continental Airlines DC - 3, CV 580, B737, MD80, DC10 William Reyes Commercial pilot Instrument Multi Engine Flight Instructor 1300 TT Ex Lieutenant USN Horn Of Africa/ Persian Gulf 02-03 Aboard USS Nassau (LHA-4) Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad 23,000 hours 27 years in the airlines B757/767 for 13 years mostly international captain 20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds Capt. Omar Pradhan U.S. Air Force – AWACS command pilot Flight Instructor U.S. Air Force Academy Planes flown: Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS (militarized Boeing 707-320B) 1,900+ hours flight time (350+ hours of combat air time over Afghanistan and Iraq) Jared Eastley 5000 + TT Airplane, Single & Multi-Engine Land, CFII, MEI, ATP SWIV (Metroliner) - Single Pilot Business Charter and Air Ambulance Pilot Mike Aybar Aircraft Maintenance Technician, Crew Chief American Airlines "Steven" Canada ATC (in training) James Edward Forst First Officer EMB-145 Trans States Airlines UND summa cum laude December 2006 Degree in Commercial Aviation and Aviation Management CFI, CFII, and MEI 65% type CRJ Hammish Brannan Former United Kingdom air defense ground enviroment (UKADGE) RADAR technician Primary and secondary ground radar systems ATC & airborne systems (including radio) as an instructor for the Ministry of Defence (MOD) Didier "Jay" Weenen BAF retired SIAI SF 260M, Potez Fouga Magister, BA/Do Alpha Jet, F16A, C130H, C153, C172, C182, L45, various gliders "Wes" MD-88 American Airlines Peter Rapp Austria PPL/IFR 950TT Piper Turbo Arrow, PA32T Saratoga, Cessna 172, Cessna 182T Garmin1000 Carry out business flights for clients and Co-Pi on Turbine Malibu and Beech90 Kingair. Erin Myers 600TT Private Pilot (single engine, land, VFR) Cessna, Piper, Waco, Pitts, Citabria R22s and a JetRanger. Army Aviation 68G (maintenance and repair): Blackhawk, Apache and OH58. FAA A&P Mechanic Experimental Aircraft Builder 1990 KitFox.Lanceair, Glassair, variety of Micro and Ultra lights. Sean Dulac Private Pilot 500TT Christina Merrick 12,000+ TT ATP A&P, CFIAIM, FE Turbojet B-727, DC-9, SNJ-5, (T-6) Navion and Bellanca Viking Current Advanced Instructing Consultant for AOPA Legal Attorneys Eastern Airlines, ValuJet Fellow Pilot and Friend of Captain Candi Chamberlain Kubeck ValuJet flight 592, brought down in the Everglades May 1996 Dave Kisor Former Aviation Electrician USN / USNR Worked on A-4E/F, TA-4F/J & A-7B/E ashore and afloat (CV-19, CV-43) P-3B & C-9B. Back seat TA-4F/J & A-4F NWL Flight & hangar deck fire fighting qualified Jumped from UH-1N BA & MA in Geography Presently employed US Forest Service Technician at the Riverside CA Fire Laboratory Slawomir M. Kozak Air Traffic Controller Warsaw International Airport Tower Control Supervisor On Job Training Unit Chief Former President of Polish Air Traffic Controllers Association Former member of Polish Airports State Enterprise Employee’s Council Member of National Aviation Council Member of International Aviation English Association Journalist of aviation magazines "National Geographic" aviation consultant Actually writing a book about 9/11 events. Timothy Young Comm, Inst, ME, Land & Sea, CFI Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic 10,000+ Hrs. PIC Aircraft Owner & Aviation Business Operator for 27 years Greg Stone Flight Attendant American Airlines LAX-I, 31-years Michael Herzog Private Pilot Multi Engine Rated 1500TT 150, 152, 172, 210, Cherokee 140, Warrior, Twin Aerocommander Profession : Talk Show Host Republic Broadcasting Network 'The American Awakening' Kevin Smith Sailplane pilot Producer, Alex Jones Show Inforwars.com Rodger Herbst 777 and 787 Aeronautics Flight Controls and Simulation Engineering Jeff Beck Commercial, Instrument Craig Hill Post Solo Student Pilot Ran as 9/11 Truth candidate for US Senate for Vermont in 2004 and 2006. Producer of "Treason Inc" Founder of the Green Party of Vermont Helped organize four 9/11 Truth candidates appearing on statewide ballot in Vermont in 2006 Appeared on many televised debates promoting 9/11awareness Public Appearances - -C-SPAN2, Called for the arrest and removal of Bush, Cheney and much of DC for treason -Spoken on 9/11 panels and podiums in many venues around the country, from NYC on several occasions -9/11 Boston Tea Party at historic Faneuil Hall -The Alex Jones-organized 9/11 event in LA -The 2006 event in Chicago Currently organizing impeachment drives in Vt and around the country to broaden 9/11 awareness and surreptitiously expose the perps in proposed congressional hearings in 2007. Fredrick W. Harvey Pilot Silver Star Bronze Star Three Purple Hearts Two Tours in Vietnam John W. Travis, MD, MPH Preventive Medicine, (Johns Hopkins) Founder, first wellness center in US Retired Pilot Eyewitness Experts Aldo Marquis Craig Ranke ThePentaCon PR Contacts Jeff Hill www.pumpitout.com Rob Balsamo Co-Founder pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org Researchers "UnderTow" 15 year Technology Expert US Researcher Source: NTSB FOIA .csv file & .fdr file Calum Douglas UK Researcher Source: NTSB FOIA Animation David Ray Griffin Emeritus Professor of Philosophy of Religion & Theology Claremont School of Theology & Claremont Graduate University Author or editor of some 30 books "The New Pearl Harbor" "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" "Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11" "The American Empire and the Commonwealth of God" "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out" Scholars For Truth, Full Member Steven E. Jones, Ph.D. Physics Professor (retired) Ph.D. in Physics from Vanderbilt University Chairperson of several international physics conferences Research conducted at major laboratories in USA, Canada, United Kingdom and Japan Over fifty peer-reviewed publications, including Nature, Scientific American and Physical Review Letters Journal of 9/11 Studies - Focus on Goals Why Indeed Did The World Trade Center Buildings Collapse Chris Schubert 10 year IT-Professional & Database Administrator Research and Translation Developing German translation site of pilotsfor911truth.org Rob Bishop Talk Radio Host, "The Rob Bishop Show" Truth Net Radio Aviation mechanic MOS, United States Marine Corps Garry Gilbert IT Professional/DVD Consultant Copyright 2006-2007 PilotsForTruth. All Rights Reserved. pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org Edited September 7, 2007 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin M. West Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 How do you debunk a list of people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 How do you debunk a list of people? Yea, Jack, Does everyone on this list believe that something other than a jet plane hit the Pentagon? BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 How do you debunk a list of people? Yea, Jack, Does everyone on this list believe that something other than a jet plane hit the Pentagon? BK Bill...I don't know what "everyone" believes. I for one think it possible a JET PLANE did hit the Pentagon, JUST NOT A BOEING 757. See my webpage at: http://www.911studies.com/911photostudies73.htm ...as well as pages before and after. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Well, let's see: http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911pentago...evidencesummary Particularly this section: http://tinyurl.com/mtnvz Short answer - they're wrong. Who do we have there? Rob Balsamo, who threatens other truthers who disagree with his assessments: http://www.pentagonresearch.com/lc2/rob.mp3 http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=15150 John Lear, who believes that the Earth is currently being visited by 80 different types of ETs, and that the reason it takes so long to get to the ISS is because the shuttle visits a "secret space station" enroute: http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/41...cecraft_01.html http://www.ufomind.com/area51/people/lear/ A survivalist, John Birchers, etc.... That site just oozes with credibility... NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Jack seems to have forgotten that he started another thread about this group less than a year ago. As I pointed out on it there are over 600,000 licensed pilots in the US and 16% of the population thinks it's "very likely" that gov't officials made or let 9/11 happen. If there were so many flight related discrepancies as the truthers say pilots should be MORE likely than the general public to believe such theories so we "should" have at least 100,000 pilots who back them. Even if only 1% of the pilots who believe LIHOP or MIHOP theories joined the group they should have 1000 members. There being 20 something American pilots on the list is not very impressive. Note that only a handful are certified to fly passenger jets http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8355 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 [they have a forum there, if you want to argue with the experts Few if any of the people on their forum are pilots - I find it hard to believe Capt. Burlingame gave up his ship to Hani Hanjour pointing a boxcutter at him. Pilots know The Common Strategy prior to 9/11. Capt. Burlingame would have taken them where they wanted to go, but only after seeing more than a "boxcutter" or knife. Why was Capt. Burlingame, a retired Military Officer with training in anti-terrorism, reported to have given up his airplane to 5 foot nothing. 100 and nothing Hani Hanjour holding a "boxcutter". (Exaggeration added for size of Hani, he was tiny, lets just put it that way). The author obviously has never been threatened with a box cutter which can be just as deadly as a knife. He is also either ignorant or dishonest Hajour wasn't one of the "muscle" hijackers. They all had "terrorism" training, also his own source says they had knives as well We at pilotsfor911truth.org feel the same as his family in that Capt. Burlingame would not have given up his airplane His family said that? Is there a citation for that claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 How do you debunk a list of people? Yea, Jack, Does everyone on this list believe that something other than a jet plane hit the Pentagon? BK Bill...I don't know what "everyone" believes. I for one think it possible a JET PLANE did hit the Pentagon, JUST NOT A BOEING 757. See my webpage at: http://www.911studies.com/911photostudies73.htm ...as well as pages before and after. Jack Thanks, Jack. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Now, reference the PFT FDR claims: do they have someone qualified in FDR analysis? (sounds of crickets chirping...) How about someone who IS qualified in FDR analysis? What do they say about the PFT analysis: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66047 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=65369 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=65819 Again, the short answer for those who can't be bothered to read the links: PFT is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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