FBI, the mob, and 9/11

[Kevin M. West]

No, sorry Duane, I owe no one an appology. Every news station in the area had live cameras on the towers when the second plane hit and they were all filming at 9:04, and that 'explosion' does not appear in any of the videos. I also have good friends who watched the second impact live from a nearby skyscraper, they didn't see it either. I won't take the AFP's word that cnn confirmed it without seeing both sides of the conversation, we don't know what AFP actually asked CNN, and AFP is hardly an unbiased source.

of 9:04am, show me the explosion.

, where's that 9:04 explosion?

None of the live videos shows that cloud at 9:04. CNN WAS broadcasting live at 9:04,

doesn't show that.

Why the hell would anyone take Jack's word for it when he can't even show us the video he took those screen captures from?

Can anyone find a longer version of this video?

It seems to show the same scene from a different angle, and is most likely the same interview with Tom Clancy that Jack's images are from.

[Duane Daman]

Along with doing nothing but disagreeing with eveyone who is trying to show you a truth you refuse to believe , by spewing more of your typical misinformation , you obviously don't know how to read either .... Try it again .... You are aware that damaging evidence can and is suppressed by the government , aren't you ?

"Despite the fact that the horrible events of Sept. 11 occurred in broad daylight and were widely photographed, significant aspects of the attacks have been completely suppressed by a media blackout. "

[Duane Daman]

I also have good friends who watched the second impact live from a nearby skyscraper, they didn't see it either.

Sorry, but I won't take your word over this article ... Your "good friends" either didn't see it because you just made them up or because they , like everyone else , were focused on the horror taking place near the top of both towers, and NOT looking at the explosion cloud coming from WTC 6 .

Edited September 21, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Kevin M. West]

That cloud is over 500 feet tall, you can't miss it because you're looking at the towers next to it.

[Kevin M. West]

You are aware that damaging evidence can and is suppressed by the government , aren't you ?

Sure wouldn't be a first or second or third or ten thousandth time......but this one stands to take down the government [as did / does Dallas], and that is why they are kicking and fighting so hard.....and for many it is just beyond belief that their own prized and beloved America could do that...well America did not do that...a small bunch of criminals did it TO America....in Dallas and in NYC at the WTC. [among other times and places]. Criminals come in all positions...from your neighborhood one to the one

in the White House with his string pullers.

I have never said that they couldn't do that, I believe they could. But I don't believe they did, because the evidence does not point to that. All I have ever done here is point out when people are wrong. I don't support the official story, I just look at the evidence and come to my own conclusions. If it seems that I'm attacking the CT's, that's because their theories are the most incorrect and easiest to disprove.

A lot of the censorship has been by the big media themselves - not airing earlier stories that didn't fit with the official script, etc.

Not airing? They were broadcasting LIVE when the supposed explosion we're currently discussing supposedly happened.

[Duane Daman]

Not airing? They were broadcasting LIVE when the supposed explosion we're currently discussing supposedly happened.

The LIVE shots were aired only once and obviously very many people saw the WTC 6 explosion and dust cloud which followed , immediatley after the plane struck the South tower at 9:03 .... So the video tape you get to see now ( which you have been led to believe are the original LIVE CNN shots) have now been altered after the fact .

So once again , it looks as though you are having a difficult time comprehending the facts in this article ... Or maybe deliberately misinterpreting them ... Here is another reminder ...

" A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it.

Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6.

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the 47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m. "

[Kevin M. West]

Yeah, you say that, but there isn't a single bit of eyewitness testimony from any of those millions of witnesses, only 1 person assuming that there were millions of witnesses, because he was told that it was broadcast at that time. In reality, the evidence shows that event was not in any of the broadcasts, there were no witnesses, and the video that Jack got his images from is much later in the day and shows WTC2 collapsing, not WTC6 exploding.

[Duane Daman]

You're beginning to sound a tad desperate here ... I guess that's what you do when you're wrong .

"There has been some confusion about when the CNN video showing the mysterious explosion of 9-11 was filmed. In order to clarify the timing, American Free Press contacted CNN archives in Atlanta to inquire.

The most senior archivist available, who could only reveal his first name, Andy, said that the footage from which this still was taken had been shot as the second plane crashed into the south tower, at about 9:04 a.m. "

So it would seem as if quite a lot of people witnessed WTC 6 exploading at 9:04 AM , and that blast obviously had nothing to do with" falling debris" from the towers .

[Len Colby]

I suggest that Jack and Duane take a look at a video (1) which was shot from the northwest (Battery Park City I think) and fast forward to 14:12 into it when the South Tower mostly obscured by it’s northern twin collapses. The small black building just to the north of the North Tower (WTC 1) is WTC 6 and it is obviously quite intact. It can be seen intact at various points up till the 19:40 mark when camera pans up as the North Tower collapses.

Photo of WTC 6 taken on 9/11 by a NYC area (Mt. Vernon, NY) firefighter

http://www.hotrodsplace.com/photogallery2/WTC/wtc6.jpg (2)

As for the Bollyn article, he was fired from the only publication that ever hired him the conspiracist neo-Nazi run American Free Press for “submitting a false story” (or “false stories” depending on you interpretation) (3). Even Sid thinks he is “a highly unreliable source” and “disinformation agent(s)” (4)

If Jack or Duane want to prove the clip was from 9:03 or so there is a Net archive of 9/11 news coverage (5) all they have to do is watch it and tell us either way. IIRC Jack also cited an NBC clip which he shuld also be able to find.

Perhaps Duane or Jack can explain why we have no know reports outside of Bollyn’s indirectly quoted unnamed source of the building exploding there were hundreds of reporters, emergency personnel and other people in the area. Patricia Ondrovic a FDNY EMT said he took shelter in WTC 6’s lobby as the South Tower collapsed (6)

1) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5370762387415552903 (Note the woman filming cries when the 1st tower collapses and to a lesser extent when the 2nd one does, some people might find this upsetting. The building can be seen more clearly at about 2:00

2) Source page of photo http://www.hotrodsplace.com/WTC.htm

3) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archi...ames;read=94104

4) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=109280 and

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...n&pid=94198

5) http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive

CNN 8:48 – 9:29 http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

6) http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110048.PDF

Edited September 21, 2007 by Len Colby

[Len Colby]

I'm sorry I brought up the subject (parenthetically).

No reason to appologize Ron. I hope you didn't interprete my post which preceded yours as criticism I didn't even know it was you who'd brought it up (I'll take your word for it that you did). I think you're one of the good guys here. Unlike many of the "truthers" (no offence intended) on this forum you seem to understand that reasonable people can honestly disagree.

Len

[Jack White]

I suggest that Jack and Duane take a look at a video (1) which was shot from the northwest (Battery Park City I think) and fast forward to 14:12 into it when the South Tower mostly obscured by it’s northern twin collapses. The small black building just to the north of the North Tower (WTC 1) is WTC 6 and it is obviously quite intact. It can be seen intact at various points up till the 19:40 mark when camera pans up as the North Tower collapses.

Photo of WTC 6 taken on 9/11 by a NYC area (Mt. Vernon, NY) firefighter

http://www.hotrodsplace.com/photogallery2/WTC/wtc6.jpg (2)

As for the Bollyn article, he was fired from the only publication that ever hired him the conspiracist neo-Nazi run American Free Press for “submitting a false story” (or “false stories” depending on you interpretation) (3). Even Sid thinks he is “a highly unreliable source” and “disinformation agent(s)” (4)

If Jack or Duane want to prove the clip was from 9:03 or so there is a Net archive of 9/11 news coverage (5) all they have to do is watch it and tell us either way. IIRC Jack also cited an NBC clip which he shuld also be able to find.

Perhaps Duane or Jack can explain why we have no know reports outside of Bollyn’s indirectly quoted unnamed source of the building exploding there were hundreds of reporters, emergency personnel and other people in the area. Patricia Ondrovic a FDNY EMT said he took shelter in WTC 6’s lobby as the South Tower collapsed (6)

1) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5370762387415552903 (Note the woman filming cries when the 1st tower collapses and to a lesser extent when the 2nd one does, some people might find this upsetting. The building can be seen more clearly at about 2:00

2) Source page of photo http://www.hotrodsplace.com/WTC.htm

3) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archi...ames;read=94104

4) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=109280 and

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...n&pid=94198

5) http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive

CNN 8:48 – 9:29 http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

6) http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110048.PDF

NOBODY SAID THAT BUILDING SIX COLLAPSED. It had two giant empty craters

ten stories tall in the middle of the building. From West Street at Vesey, it was as the photo

shows...NOT COLLAPSED.

Jack

[Jack White]

Yeah, you say that, but there isn't a single bit of eyewitness testimony from any of those millions of witnesses, only 1 person assuming that there were millions of witnesses, because he was told that it was broadcast at that time. In reality, the evidence shows that event was not in any of the broadcasts, there were no witnesses, and the video that Jack got his images from is much later in the day and shows WTC2 collapsing, not WTC6 exploding.

The CNN frame shows the dustcloud going from the ground upward.

It shows BOTH TOWERS STILL STANDING.

When the South Tower fell...IT EXPLODED FROM THE TOP DOWN,

NOT FROM THE BOTTOM UP. Since it was exploding from the top,

it makes no sense for there to be a ground level dustcloud rising...

expecially since both towers were still standing. I have asked Peter

to post my study showing BOTH TOWERS STILL STANDING, with

the dustcloud in relation to the South Tower. The dust cloud was

on Vesey Street across the street from Building Seven. THAT IS

THE LOCATION OF BUILDING SIX. Building Six is exploding while

both towers are still standing. Other photos taken at ground level

looking down Vesey Street show the dustcloud at ground level.

There are dozens of views of the South Tower EXPLODING FROM

THE TOP DOWN. Look at them. There is no simultaneous dustcloud

at ground level.

Jack

Edited September 22, 2007 by Jack White

[Jack White]

No, sorry Duane, I owe no one an appology. Every news station in the area had live cameras on the towers when the second plane hit and they were all filming at 9:04, and that 'explosion' does not appear in any of the videos. I also have good friends who watched the second impact live from a nearby skyscraper, they didn't see it either. I won't take the AFP's word that cnn confirmed it without seeing both sides of the conversation, we don't know what AFP actually asked CNN, and AFP is hardly an unbiased source.

of 9:04am, show me the explosion.

, where's that 9:04 explosion?

None of the live videos shows that cloud at 9:04. CNN WAS broadcasting live at 9:04,

doesn't show that.

Why the hell would anyone take Jack's word for it when he can't even show us the video he took those screen captures from?

Can anyone find a longer version of this video?

It seems to show the same scene from a different angle, and is most likely the same interview with Tom Clancy that Jack's images are from.

The camera point of view is completely different and the time is different.

Compare the frames and note that Building Seven is not in the same location and

the dustclouds are different.

Jack

[Matthew Lewis]

Jack, why don't you just post the source video that your CNN still is from? If you can't find the video and no other video shows it then isn't it possible that the still in question has been altered?

[Len Colby]

NOBODY SAID THAT BUILDING SIX COLLAPSED. It had two giant empty craters

ten stories tall in the middle of the building. From West Street at Vesey, it was as the photo shows...NOT COLLAPSED.

Jack

Jack it seems that you didn’t even bother to watch the video or read my words carefully. I said the building can be seen to be “intact” up till the moment the North Tower collapsed which is the case. The video was shot from fairly high floor (20 – 30 I think) and the roof is clearly visible there are no holes or craters in it.

The still below is from 19:40 into the clip. There is still a lot of dust from the Collapse of WTC 2. A man in the room yells “Oh, my God1” because WTC 1 (the North Tower) has started to collapse the camera pans up just after this. No damage to the roof of WTC 6 is visible.

Yeah, you say that, but there isn't a single bit of eyewitness testimony from any of those millions of witnesses, only 1 person assuming that there were millions of witnesses, because he was told that it was broadcast at that time. In reality, the evidence shows that event was not in any of the broadcasts, there were no witnesses, and the video that Jack got his images from is much later in the day and shows WTC2 collapsing, not WTC6 exploding.

The CNN frame shows the dustcloud going from the ground upward.

It shows BOTH TOWERS STILL STANDING.

When the South Tower fell...IT EXPLODED FROM THE TOP DOWN,

NOT FROM THE BOTTOM UP. Since it was exploding from the top,

it makes no sense for there to be a ground level dustcloud rising...

There are dozens of views of the South Tower EXPLODING FROM

THE TOP DOWN. Look at them. There is no simultaneous dustcloud

at ground level.

Why is a dust cloud rising after a top down collapse? I don’t know Jack, I won’t pretend to have the physics training to fully explain that but that is what can been seen in every video clip of the collapses of both towers. My layman’s explanation is that gravity drew the building’s contents downwards, once they hit the ground they couldn’t go down any further so much of the lighter material (like dust) was forced upwards. Hurl some flour or talcum powder at the floor and see what happens. You said in another post the cloud should have been bigger if it were post collapse. Make up your mind you can’t simultaneously maintain that such a cloud shouldn’t have existed AND that it was too small.

expecially since both towers were still standing. I have asked Peter

to post my study showing BOTH TOWERS STILL STANDING… Building Six is exploding while both towers are still standing.

Goerbbels said that if you repeat a lie enough times people would believe it, in the Wizard of Oz all that Dorothy had to do was say “there’s no place like home” enough times (with her eyes closed while clicking her heals) to go back to “Aunt Em’s” but even in the fabled movie that only worked in a dream. You repeat that the South Tower is still standing as much as you want it won’t make it so.

What you are identifying as the South Tower is in reality dust from the collapse. See if you can turn up ANY images of that much smoke billowing out of either tower before they collapsed.

If one takes a look at images of the impact of flight 175 the air is clear and the sky is blue in all of them. How then due you explain the distinctly hazy appearance of the clip to claim was taken immediately afterwards?

http://images.google.com/images?client=ope...sa=N&tab=wi

http://www.vialls.com/homerun/homerun.html

I gave you the link to an archive of CNN and other network news coverage of 9/11 if you watched the corresponding clip for CNN you’d see that that wasn’t what they were showing at 9:04. Here is a low resolution still of what they were showing at the time

http://www.archive.org/movies/thumbnails.p...0109110848-0929

If you want to watch the clip of CNN’s coverage from 8:48 – 9:29 you can watch it here

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

With the dustcloud in relation to the South Tower. The dust cloud was

on Vesey Street across the street from Building Seven. THAT IS

THE LOCATION OF BUILDING SIX

There is a lot of dust everywhere Jack how come despite the numerous witnesses we have no reports of this explosion? If one forwards the clip linked above to the 14:00 mark as WTC 2 collapses dust clouds very similar to the one in your CNN frame can be seen.