Adele Edisen

[John Simkin]

One of the most important figures in the events surrounding the assassination of JFK is Adele Edisen.

In April, 1963, Edisen met Jose Rivera at a biomedical scientific conference in Atlantic City, New Jersey. The conference had been organized by the Federation of American Societies of Experimental Biology. Rivera told Edisen that he been on the faculty of the biochemistry department at Loyola University in New Orleans, and that he was now living in Washington. Edisen was planning to visit Washington and so Rivera suggested she she telephone him when she arrived in the city.

Edisen arrived in Washington on 22nd April, 1963. She telephoned Rivera and had dinner with him at Blackie's House of Beef restaurant. During the meal Rivera asked Edisen if she knew Lee Harvey Oswald. He also talked about the Carousel Club (owned by Jack Ruby) in Dallas.

The following evening Rivera gave Edisen a tour of Washington. When they passed the White House he asked Edisen, "I wonder what Jackie will do when her husband dies?" After Edisen replied "What!", Rivera said, "Oh, oh, I meant the baby. She might lose the baby."

During the tour Rivera made several comments about John F. Kennedy. Edisen later reported: "He asked me if I saw Caroline on her pony Macaroni, and all kinds of crazy nonsense, and I was beginning to think I was with an absolute madman.... Rivera's part of the conversation at times was difficult to follow, but many of his statements, such as the reference to 'Jackie,' seemed deliberately placed. When he spoke of President Kennedy, Rivera was extremely critical of Kennedy's position on civil rights. Rivera made many disparaging remarks about black people and the civil rights movement."

Later that evening Rivera asked Edisen to carry out a couple of tasks when she arrived home in New Orleans. This included contacting Winston DeMonsabert, a member of the faculty at Loyola University. He then asked her to call Lee Harvey Oswald at 899-4244. "Write down this name: Lee Harvey Oswald. Tell him to kill the chief." Rivera then said, "No, no, don't write that down. You will remember it when you get to New Orleans. We're just playing a little joke on him."

Edisen phoned this number in early May and was told by the man who answered that there was no one there by the name of Oswald. Later, when she called again, the same man answered, saying that Oswald had just arrived but was not there at the time. Instead she spoke to Marina Oswald and asked her if she might call again in a few days to speak with her husband when he was at home. Marina only spoke Russian to Edisen but seemed to understand her request because she replied, "Da". The next time she phoned she got Oswald, but he denied knowing Jose Rivera. Edisen asked Oswald for the address where the telephone he was speaking on was located. Oswald gave her an address on Magazine Street. She did not give Oswald Rivera's message.

Edisen was concerned that Rivera might be involved in a plot against President John F. Kennedy. She decided to contact the Secret Service in New Orleans and spoke to Special Agent Rice. According to Edisen, "After giving my name, address and telephone number to him, I told him I had met a man in Washington in April who said some strange things about the President which I thought they should know. It was my intention to go there and tell them about Rivera and his statements, but I began to think they might not believe me, so I called back and cancelled. Agent Rice told me they would be there any time I would care to come in."

Two days after the assassination Edisen arranged a meeting with Secret Service Agent John Rice. Also at the meeting was Orrin Bartlett, Liaison Special Agent of the FBI: "Mr. Rice was seated at his desk, and I was seated to his right, and the FBI agent remained standing most of the time. I believe he may have taped it because every time Mr. Rice got up from his desk, there was a partition over there, for example, and there was a phone there which they used even though there was a phone on the desk, which I didn't understand, but apparently there was some reason for that. So every time Mr. Rice got up to answer the phone or to use the phone, I noticed his hand would do this, and I would either hear a whirring, a mechanical sound like a tape recorder or something. It may have been audiotaped."

Edisen told them the story of how she met Rivera in Atlantic City and Washington in April. She also supplied the agents with Rivera's office and home telephone numbers. Edisen later claimed that: "Agent Rice asked me to call them if I remembered anything else, and requested that I not tell anyone I had been there to speak with them. I understood this to be for my own protection as well as for their investigation. Both agents thanked me for speaking with them."

Edisen contacted Rice a few days later and he told her, "Don't worry. That man can't hurt you." Edisen assumed that Rivera had been arrested and that she would be called as a witness before the Warren Commission. "When the Warren Report was published, I was mystified and dismayed by the conclusion that Oswald acted alone, and that Jack Ruby acted alone, for my experiences told me otherwise."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKedisen.htm

[John Simkin]

Here is an article on Adele Edisen by William E. Kelly that is well worth reading:

http://www.namebase.org/edisen.html

[Gary Buell]

Here is an article on Adele Edisen by William E. Kelly that is well worth reading:

http://www.namebase.org/edisen.html

Is Adele a member of this forum? I know that she posts regularly on Rich dela Rosa's site.

[William Kelly]

HI John and Gary,

Adele is a member of this forum, and may contribute to this or the Rivera thread, but I don't think it is necessary, as she has already told us what she knows.

As I mentioned in previous posts, I think that Adele has passed the test and is the real deal, even though her story is pretty outrageous. We should be able to get passed Adele to the subjects of her story - Dr./Col. Jose Rivera and SAIC of NO SS John Rice are the most important.

If the combined efforts of the researchers on this forum could locate John Rice, it would be a great service to the JFK research community, as he has never testified or been interviewed properly.

Now locating him and merely asking him if he recall Adele would not work, as a battery of questions on many issues come to mind, and he should be properly questioned with the right questions, and preferably under oath.

The article posted is severly out of date, and some of it is wrong and must be corrected, beginning at the top with my address, email and phone number, all obsolete. I will provide correct correspondence info for anyone interested [bkjfk3@yahoo.com]. I will correct, revise and update the article when I have the time.

I think that Adele has been very forthcoming and has given us everything that she has. She is also very vulnerable and as a suject of Rivera's MKULTRA techniques (as Oswald was), she is lucky to be here.

In the course of my attempts to verify what Adele says, I broke her story down into a number of serials. While John thinks the Stockdale angle is important, I worked on others, including the statement Rivera made, "It will happen when the Shriner's parade comes to New Orleans." [see attachment]

Rivera kept two offices, one at the NIH, where his secretary could still be alive, and another office at "Foggy Bottom," where I presume, some of his covert activities were arranged. The secretary could supply much more info, if located and interviewed.

In addition, we have the 800 page Army file that Doug Horne requested for the ARRB, which gives us Rivera's stations and superiors - Brooks Medical Center in Texas, a Monteray, California base where Army-Navy research was conducted, teaching in New Orleans and Ft. Detrick, Maryland, home to the chem-bio research and MKNAOMI, the operation that I believe Lamanna and Rivera were associated.

Most of my research is a work-in-progress, and I only post it, not for serious critique, but to learn what other's may know and can contribute.

Locating John Rice would be the number one priority.

Bill Kelly

bkjfk3@yahoo.com

While John is interested in Stockdale, an interesting serial,

[Francesca Akhtar]

An odd coincidence (or maybe not?) is that Perry Russo also attended Loyola University.

[Mark Knight]

Isn't it quite a coincidence that there are so many coincidences in the JFK case?

To McAdams and Posner, it IS only a coincidence. To the rest of us, I'm not so sure.

[William Kelly]

Isn't it quite a coincidence that there are so many coincidences in the JFK case?

To McAdams and Posner, it IS only a coincidence. To the rest of us, I'm not so sure.

More on Tulane:

BK

[Francesca Akhtar]

Isn't it quite a coincidence that there are so many coincidences in the JFK case?

To McAdams and Posner, it IS only a coincidence. To the rest of us, I'm not so sure.

Indeed, I think the phrase ' to those that believe no proof is necessary, to those that don't, no proof is possible' was written for them! No matter what documented evidence is available pointing to conspiracy, they refuse to believe it!

Edited November 3, 2005 by Francesca Akhtar

[John Simkin]

According to Ed Haslam (Dr. Mary's Monkey) Rivera sat on the National Institute of Health Board of Directors. A fellow director in the early 1960s was Alton Ochsner. In 1963 Rivera was in New Orleans handing out research grants from NIH to the Tulane Medical School. This seems to support Adele Edison's story about Rivera knowing Lee Harvey Oswald's phone number in New Orleans before he arrived in the city.

[Guest Tom Scully]

One of the most important figures in the events surrounding the assassination of JFK is Adele Edisen.

In April, 1963, Edisen met Jose Rivera at a biomedical scientific conference in Atlantic City, New Jersey. The conference had been organized by the Federation of American Societies of Experimental Biology. Rivera told Edisen that he been on the faculty of the biochemistry department at Loyola University in New Orleans, and that he was now living in Washington. Edisen was planning to visit Washington and so Rivera suggested she she telephone him when she arrived in the city.

Edisen arrived in Washington on 22nd April, 1963. She telephoned Rivera and had dinner with him at Blackie's House of Beef restaurant. During the meal Rivera asked Edisen if she knew Lee Harvey Oswald. He also talked about the Carousel Club (owned by Jack Ruby) in Dallas.

The following evening Rivera gave Edisen a tour of Washington. When they passed the White House he asked Edisen, "I wonder what Jackie will do when her husband dies?" After Edisen replied "What!", Rivera said, "Oh, oh, I meant the baby. She might lose the baby."

During the tour Rivera made several comments about John F. Kennedy. Edisen later reported: "He asked me if I saw Caroline on her pony Macaroni, and all kinds of crazy nonsense, and I was beginning to think I was with an absolute madman.... Rivera's part of the conversation at times was difficult to follow, but many of his statements, such as the reference to 'Jackie,' seemed deliberately placed. When he spoke of President Kennedy, Rivera was extremely critical of Kennedy's position on civil rights. Rivera made many disparaging remarks about black people and the civil rights movement."

Later that evening Rivera asked Edisen to carry out a couple of tasks when she arrived home in New Orleans. This included contacting Winston DeMonsabert, a member of the faculty at Loyola University. He then asked her to call Lee Harvey Oswald at 899-4244. "Write down this name: Lee Harvey Oswald. Tell him to kill the chief." Rivera then said, "No, no, don't write that down. You will remember it when you get to New Orleans. We're just playing a little joke on him."

Edisen phoned this number in early May and was told by the man who answered that there was no one there by the name of Oswald. Later, when she called again, the same man answered, saying that Oswald had just arrived but was not there at the time. Instead she spoke to Marina Oswald and asked her if she might call again in a few days to speak with her husband when he was at home. Marina only spoke Russian to Edisen but seemed to understand her request because she replied, "Da". The next time she phoned she got Oswald, but he denied knowing Jose Rivera. Edisen asked Oswald for the address where the telephone he was speaking on was located. Oswald gave her an address on Magazine Street. She did not give Oswald Rivera's message.

Edisen was concerned that Rivera might be involved in a plot against President John F. Kennedy. She decided to contact the Secret Service in New Orleans and spoke to Special Agent Rice. According to Edisen, "After giving my name, address and telephone number to him, I told him I had met a man in Washington in April who said some strange things about the President which I thought they should know. It was my intention to go there and tell them about Rivera and his statements, but I began to think they might not believe me, so I called back and cancelled. Agent Rice told me they would be there any time I would care to come in."

Two days after the assassination Edisen arranged a meeting with Secret Service Agent John Rice. Also at the meeting was Orrin Bartlett, Liaison Special Agent of the FBI: "Mr. Rice was seated at his desk, and I was seated to his right, and the FBI agent remained standing most of the time. I believe he may have taped it because every time Mr. Rice got up from his desk, there was a partition over there, for example, and there was a phone there which they used even though there was a phone on the desk, which I didn't understand, but apparently there was some reason for that. So every time Mr. Rice got up to answer the phone or to use the phone, I noticed his hand would do this, and I would either hear a whirring, a mechanical sound like a tape recorder or something. It may have been audiotaped."

Edisen told them the story of how she met Rivera in Atlantic City and Washington in April. She also supplied the agents with Rivera's office and home telephone numbers. Edisen later claimed that: "Agent Rice asked me to call them if I remembered anything else, and requested that I not tell anyone I had been there to speak with them. I understood this to be for my own protection as well as for their investigation. Both agents thanked me for speaking with them."

Edisen contacted Rice a few days later and he told her, "Don't worry. That man can't hurt you." Edisen assumed that Rivera had been arrested and that she would be called as a witness before the Warren Commission. "When the Warren Report was published, I was mystified and dismayed by the conclusion that Oswald acted alone, and that Jack Ruby acted alone, for my experiences told me otherwise."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKedisen.htm

How could John's opinion be so different than Raymond's and Kathy's?

Raymond or Kathy, have either of you ever discussed Adele Edisen's claims with her? IMO, John Simkin's opinion is firmly grounded, thanks to Adele's credibility and credentials.

Vince has demonstrated..... that he is not interested in researching John W. Rice.

Hi, everyone. Sorry: as I have told Bill over the years (hi, Bill!) what i have on John W. Rice is what I have in my book/ online...not much! )

I'm afraid I can't help you either, Tom, as I have never considered Rice --or his wife -- a person of interest.

Yes, by golly!!! Even though Vince has written a TON of information on the Secret Service, and provides it at no cost to all,that is no excuse. He should still be all over this Rice thing. After all, we must be fed...

( Maybe it might be a good idea if someone else took the task on, if it is important to them)

Edited December 19, 2009 by Tom Scully

[William Kelly]

One of the most important figures in the events surrounding the assassination of JFK is Adele Edisen.

In April, 1963, Edisen met Jose Rivera at a biomedical scientific conference in Atlantic City, New Jersey. The conference had been organized by the Federation of American Societies of Experimental Biology. Rivera told Edisen that he been on the faculty of the biochemistry department at Loyola University in New Orleans, and that he was now living in Washington. Edisen was planning to visit Washington and so Rivera suggested she she telephone him when she arrived in the city.

Edisen arrived in Washington on 22nd April, 1963. She telephoned Rivera and had dinner with him at Blackie's House of Beef restaurant. During the meal Rivera asked Edisen if she knew Lee Harvey Oswald. He also talked about the Carousel Club (owned by Jack Ruby) in Dallas.

The following evening Rivera gave Edisen a tour of Washington. When they passed the White House he asked Edisen, "I wonder what Jackie will do when her husband dies?" After Edisen replied "What!", Rivera said, "Oh, oh, I meant the baby. She might lose the baby."

During the tour Rivera made several comments about John F. Kennedy. Edisen later reported: "He asked me if I saw Caroline on her pony Macaroni, and all kinds of crazy nonsense, and I was beginning to think I was with an absolute madman.... Rivera's part of the conversation at times was difficult to follow, but many of his statements, such as the reference to 'Jackie,' seemed deliberately placed. When he spoke of President Kennedy, Rivera was extremely critical of Kennedy's position on civil rights. Rivera made many disparaging remarks about black people and the civil rights movement."

Later that evening Rivera asked Edisen to carry out a couple of tasks when she arrived home in New Orleans. This included contacting Winston DeMonsabert, a member of the faculty at Loyola University. He then asked her to call Lee Harvey Oswald at 899-4244. "Write down this name: Lee Harvey Oswald. Tell him to kill the chief." Rivera then said, "No, no, don't write that down. You will remember it when you get to New Orleans. We're just playing a little joke on him."

Edisen phoned this number in early May and was told by the man who answered that there was no one there by the name of Oswald. Later, when she called again, the same man answered, saying that Oswald had just arrived but was not there at the time. Instead she spoke to Marina Oswald and asked her if she might call again in a few days to speak with her husband when he was at home. Marina only spoke Russian to Edisen but seemed to understand her request because she replied, "Da". The next time she phoned she got Oswald, but he denied knowing Jose Rivera. Edisen asked Oswald for the address where the telephone he was speaking on was located. Oswald gave her an address on Magazine Street. She did not give Oswald Rivera's message.

Edisen was concerned that Rivera might be involved in a plot against President John F. Kennedy. She decided to contact the Secret Service in New Orleans and spoke to Special Agent Rice. According to Edisen, "After giving my name, address and telephone number to him, I told him I had met a man in Washington in April who said some strange things about the President which I thought they should know. It was my intention to go there and tell them about Rivera and his statements, but I began to think they might not believe me, so I called back and cancelled. Agent Rice told me they would be there any time I would care to come in."

Two days after the assassination Edisen arranged a meeting with Secret Service Agent John Rice. Also at the meeting was Orrin Bartlett, Liaison Special Agent of the FBI: "Mr. Rice was seated at his desk, and I was seated to his right, and the FBI agent remained standing most of the time. I believe he may have taped it because every time Mr. Rice got up from his desk, there was a partition over there, for example, and there was a phone there which they used even though there was a phone on the desk, which I didn't understand, but apparently there was some reason for that. So every time Mr. Rice got up to answer the phone or to use the phone, I noticed his hand would do this, and I would either hear a whirring, a mechanical sound like a tape recorder or something. It may have been audiotaped."

Edisen told them the story of how she met Rivera in Atlantic City and Washington in April. She also supplied the agents with Rivera's office and home telephone numbers. Edisen later claimed that: "Agent Rice asked me to call them if I remembered anything else, and requested that I not tell anyone I had been there to speak with them. I understood this to be for my own protection as well as for their investigation. Both agents thanked me for speaking with them."

Edisen contacted Rice a few days later and he told her, "Don't worry. That man can't hurt you." Edisen assumed that Rivera had been arrested and that she would be called as a witness before the Warren Commission. "When the Warren Report was published, I was mystified and dismayed by the conclusion that Oswald acted alone, and that Jack Ruby acted alone, for my experiences told me otherwise."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKedisen.htm

How could John's opinion be so different than Raymond's and Kathy's?

Raymond or Kathy, have either of you ever discussed Adele Edisen's claims with her? IMO, John Simkin's opinion is firmly grounded, thanks to Adele's credibility and credentials.

Vince has demonstrated..... that he is not interested in researching John W. Rice.

Hi, everyone. Sorry: as I have told Bill over the years (hi, Bill!) what i have on John W. Rice is what I have in my book/ online...not much! )

I'm afraid I can't help you either, Tom, as I have never considered Rice --or his wife -- a person of interest.

Yes, by golly!!! Even though Vince has written a TON of information on the Secret Service, and provides it at no cost to all,that is no excuse. He should still be all over this Rice thing. After all, we must be fed...

( Maybe it might be a good idea if someone else took the task on, if it is important to them)

Doug Horne requested and obtained a 800 page DOD file on Col./Dr. Jose Rivera, but it was obviously incomplete and Horne never had the resources, backing or ability to go after the full deal and none of this is even mentioned in his book IARRB.

I think the emphesis should shift from Adele to Rivera, as he is the guy, like John W. Rice, who can lead us to those who killed JFK.

Nor do I think it is worth stopping to convince Ray or Kathy that it is an area worth pursing, as their permission isn't necessary to investigate these suspects.

BK

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Nor do I think it is worth stopping to convince Ray or Kathy that it is an area worth pursing, as their permission isn't necessary to investigate these suspects.

BK

Quite right Bill. On behalf of myself (and Kathy also?) go ahead and knock yourself out on another wild goose chase.

[William Kelly]

Bill,

Oh, brother!! What I said had nothing to do with Adele Eidsen, it has everything to do with what I see as asking someone who has already given, and evidently not enough for some folks, to give even more. My whole point is that if we think something is really important , we should research it. Asking questions is fine, but it looked to me like Vince's work was inadequate to you two because it doesn't seem to cover what you want.

Then I see this stuff posted about having to convince me that it is worthwhile. Even if it said in jest, it is not anywhere what I meant when I wrote what I did.

The post I made and is referred to here by Tom was on another thread. Now it's over here. I don't understand why.

If it is read in light of what was written around it on the other thread, the meaning is clear.

I don't disagree with John in the Adele respect, I disagree with him in the Vince credibility respect.

Hi,

I don't know how it got here but I think everybody gets to choose what they are interested in, and we follow what we want.

I disagree with John Simkin about Vince losing credibility for being swayed by Bugliosi's book and changing his mind again after reading Doug Horne. Doug himself was a hard sway on a lot of issues, and he too had to have a couple of awakenings before he realized what was happening and how he was figuring it out, sometimes too late to ask the right questions.

I also subscribe to Peter Dale Scott's negative template theory that says the people that are missing from the index, not questioned and purposely left out are the ones we should concentrate on, and Special Agent JWRice is one of them.

Vince got his picture. Nice going Vince. That's more than many people got.

Now Scully is on to him and I hope he can discover some more things we didn't know.

And as Vince and Doug found out, they aren't all Bad Guys, and I don't think Rice is a Bad Guy, but like Sibert & O'Neill and Finck, he was given the runaround, and sent on a real Whild Goose Chase on the day of the assassination, and in the weeks and months that followed.

All we can do is follow what leads we think are important and see where they go.

And if you don't like Wild Goose chases, then you shouldn't be chasing assassins.

Appologies to youself and Ray if I sounded too harsh, but I think Ray understands there is no bitterness on my part.

BK

[Jack White]

I believe that secret methods brainwashing are used, often without

the knowledge of the victim, which can cause them to "flip" sides or

become "patsies". There are too many known cases of this to think

it is random aberrant behavior.

Some may consist of "controllers" who somehow "take over" people

through "hypnotic-like" mind control. Some may consist of drugs,

sex or money fixations in the manner of Pavlov's dog. It has even

been suggested that radio devices have been developed which

cause persons to "hear voices inside their head".

One must be familiar with classic books like OPERATION MIND

CONTROL and THE CONTROL OF CANDY JONES.

One need to look behind surface actions for covert operations in

cases concerning behavioral anomalies.

Jack

[William Kelly]

I believe that secret methods brainwashing are used, often without

the knowledge of the victim, which can cause them to "flip" sides or

become "patsies". There are too many known cases of this to think

it is random aberrant behavior.

Some may consist of "controllers" who somehow "take over" people

through "hypnotic-like" mind control. Some may consist of drugs,

sex or money fixations in the manner of Pavlov's dog. It has even

been suggested that radio devices have been developed which

cause persons to "hear voices inside their head".

One must be familiar with classic books like OPERATION MIND

CONTROL and THE CONTROL OF CANDY JONES.

One need to look behind surface actions for covert operations in

cases concerning behavioral anomalies.

Jack

Jack,

Adele was an MKULTRA victim just like Olson.

Rivera was part of a secret project at Fort Detrick, Maryland, home of chemo-bio warfare testing, and he was also stationed at other key posts - including Brooks Medical base in Texas where JFK visited the day before he was killed, at New Orleans where he trained students, and at Bethesda.

But people that are targeted don't have to be drugged, that was just Rivera's means to an end.

David Atlee Phillips in Nightwatch tells the story of one of his first recruitments, an agent in place who they needed, so Phillips learned the guy was very supersticious and read his horoscope every day. Since Phillips was the editor and publisher of the newspaper, he arranged for the guy's horoscope to read something like - "You will be given an offer today that you can't refuse," so when he made his pitch, the guy was receptive.

The target must have thought it was a true horoscope or a big coincidence, but it was no coincidence at all. It was just one of the many ways used to control people and situations. Kreskin calls it the power of suggestion.

So all the "coincidences" we see in the assassination scenario - how Oswald met the Paines, how he got the Magazine Street apartment and how he got his job at the TSBD, were all such similar "coincidences."

BK