Thomas H. Purvis Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 To date, that I am aware of, no one has attempted to tackle, hold down, and explain this little item of the WC re-enactment. Not unlike most other aspects, it is in fact quite simple. Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; Commission No. 889 represented by frame 166 is the adjusted position to account for the fact that the Presidential stand-in on May 24 was actually 10 inches higher in the air above the street than the President would have been in the Presidential limousine. Mr. DULLES - Would you explain to us simply how you made those adjustments? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. DULLES - I mean how did you get him down 10 inches as a practical matter. Mr. FRAZIER - They had marked on the back of the President's coat the location of the wound, according to the distance from the top of his head down to the hole in his back as shown in the autopsy figures. They then held a ruler, a tape measure up against that, both the back of the Presidential stand-in- and the back of the Governor's stand-in, and looking through the scope you could estimate the 10-inch distance down on the automobile. You could not actually see it on the President's back. But could locate that 10-inch distance as a point which we marked with tape on the automobile itself, both for the Presidential and the Governor's stand-in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In event one will take the time to do so, they can check out the exhibits and they will find that there are not photographs from the TSDB in which the aiming point is some 10-inches lower than is the mark on the back of the presidential stand-in. And, with these exhibits, one can then place into proper perspective where a bullet strike would have hit JFK, had his back been in that position, as well as the angle of exit on which the bullet would have struck JBC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - They are so nearly identical that you could not really pick out any difference between the foliage and the photograph taken previously in November. In Commission Exhibit No. 891, which is marked frame 186, this is the adjusted position to which the car was moved to accommodate the 10-inch distance at which the actual wound in the President would have been located had the car been the actual Presidential limousine rather than the stand-in car. Mr. SPECTER - Were you standing, seated, or kneeling at the time when these photographs were taken and the sighting of the rifle was made by you. Mr. FRAZIER - I was actually sitting on a carton with my left elbow resting on the boxes stacked in front of the window. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OH! Now I get it! In the "Adjusted Position" you actually moved the car forward until the point that was some 10 inches lower on the back of the presidential stand-in came into alignment with your "fixed" rifle position. Then, you took a photo from the Zapruder position and called this the "Adjusted Position". Certainly sounds complicated to me! Would not it have been just as easy to lower the rifle line-of-sight, and deal with the REAL position of JFK on Elm St. at the time of the shot???, rather than push the car some few feet down the street, then take the photo from the Z-position and then represent this off as the actuall position of JFK at a given frame of the Z-film? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is certainly no wonder that Mr. West thought you people did not know what you were doing. Nevertheless, he fully understood what it was all about after one of our conversations. And, we both enjoyed a good laugh at the silliness of the actions which you (The WC) went through to obscure and obfuscate the facts of the assassination. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - On Commission Exhibit No. 892, also marked frame No. 207, the car was moved forward under the tree to the point where the spot on the Presidential stand-in's back just became visible beyond the foliage of the tree. I had the car stopped at that point so that this photograph could be made there. On Commission Exhibit No. 893, also marked frame 210, we have the photograph made at the adjusted position to accommodate the 10-inch difference in height between the stand-in and the actual position of the wound above the street and on the President's body. Mr. SPECTER - What was the alinement of President Kennedy's stand-in with Governor Connally's stand-in at frames 207 and 210? Mr. FRAZIER - They both are in direct alinement with the telescopic sight at the window. The Governor is immediately behind the President in the field of view. Was that your question? Mr. SPECTER - Yes. Mr. FRAZIER - Alinement of people? Mr. SPECTER - Yes, sir. Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER - Could Governor Connally have taken a shot in the range of frames 207 to 210 which would have traversed his body with the entry and exit points being approximately what they were shown to be through the medical records? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do seem to recall that you (the WC) were somewhat negligent in publishing some of the frames of the Z-film within this area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite a coincidence, especially since this is exactly where Time/Life, the US Secret Service, the FBI, and even the first survey of the WC indicated that the first shot was fired. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would therefore suppose, that not unlike the third/last/final shot, that if one neglects to publish the frames of the film for the shot, that the shot can be made to completely disappear. 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Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 (edited) To date, that I am aware of, no one has attempted to tackle, hold down, and explain this little item of the WC re-enactment.Not unlike most other aspects, it is in fact quite simple. Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; Commission No. 889 represented by frame 166 is the adjusted position to account for the fact that the Presidential stand-in on May 24 was actually 10 inches higher in the air above the street than the President would have been in the Presidential limousine. Mr. DULLES - Would you explain to us simply how you made those adjustments? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. DULLES - I mean how did you get him down 10 inches as a practical matter. Mr. FRAZIER - They had marked on the back of the President's coat the location of the wound, according to the distance from the top of his head down to the hole in his back as shown in the autopsy figures. They then held a ruler, a tape measure up against that, both the back of the Presidential stand-in- and the back of the Governor's stand-in, and looking through the scope you could estimate the 10-inch distance down on the automobile. You could not actually see it on the President's back. But could locate that 10-inch distance as a point which we marked with tape on the automobile itself, both for the Presidential and the Governor's stand-in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In event one will take the time to do so, they can check out the exhibits and they will find that there are not photographs from the TSDB in which the aiming point is some 10-inches lower than is the mark on the back of the presidential stand-in. And, with these exhibits, one can then place into proper perspective where a bullet strike would have hit JFK, had his back been in that position, as well as the angle of exit on which the bullet would have struck JBC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - They are so nearly identical that you could not really pick out any difference between the foliage and the photograph taken previously in November. In Commission Exhibit No. 891, which is marked frame 186, this is the adjusted position to which the car was moved to accommodate the 10-inch distance at which the actual wound in the President would have been located had the car been the actual Presidential limousine rather than the stand-in car. Mr. SPECTER - Were you standing, seated, or kneeling at the time when these photographs were taken and the sighting of the rifle was made by you. Mr. FRAZIER - I was actually sitting on a carton with my left elbow resting on the boxes stacked in front of the window. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OH! Now I get it! In the "Adjusted Position" you actually moved the car forward until the point that was some 10 inches lower on the back of the presidential stand-in came into alignment with your "fixed" rifle position. Then, you took a photo from the Zapruder position and called this the "Adjusted Position". Certainly sounds complicated to me! Would not it have been just as easy to lower the rifle line-of-sight, and deal with the REAL position of JFK on Elm St. at the time of the shot???, rather than push the car some few feet down the street, then take the photo from the Z-position and then represent this off as the actuall position of JFK at a given frame of the Z-film? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is certainly no wonder that Mr. West thought you people did not know what you were doing. Nevertheless, he fully understood what it was all about after one of our conversations. And, we both enjoyed a good laugh at the silliness of the actions which you (The WC) went through to obscure and obfuscate the facts of the assassination. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - On Commission Exhibit No. 892, also marked frame No. 207, the car was moved forward under the tree to the point where the spot on the Presidential stand-in's back just became visible beyond the foliage of the tree. I had the car stopped at that point so that this photograph could be made there. On Commission Exhibit No. 893, also marked frame 210, we have the photograph made at the adjusted position to accommodate the 10-inch difference in height between the stand-in and the actual position of the wound above the street and on the President's body. Mr. SPECTER - What was the alinement of President Kennedy's stand-in with Governor Connally's stand-in at frames 207 and 210? Mr. FRAZIER - They both are in direct alinement with the telescopic sight at the window. The Governor is immediately behind the President in the field of view. Was that your question? Mr. SPECTER - Yes. Mr. FRAZIER - Alinement of people? Mr. SPECTER - Yes, sir. Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER - Could Governor Connally have taken a shot in the range of frames 207 to 210 which would have traversed his body with the entry and exit points being approximately what they were shown to be through the medical records? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do seem to recall that you (the WC) were somewhat negligent in publishing some of the frames of the Z-film within this area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite a coincidence, especially since this is exactly where Time/Life, the US Secret Service, the FBI, and even the first survey of the WC indicated that the first shot was fired. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would therefore suppose, that not unlike the third/last/final shot, that if one neglects to publish the frames of the film for the shot, that the shot can be made to completely disappear. Now! If one could only resolve exactly why would the WC want to Jack up the rifle firing position in the sixth floor window, and thereafter have an aiming point elevation that was in fact some 10- inches higher than the actual aiming point to JFK during the assassination. Surely it could not be because of something which may have been located within the "Zone A" area between what would have been seen by the shooter as opposed to what the WC decided to make us believe was actually seen. Sure glad that they (the WC) did not pull that wool over my eyes also! Edited July 27, 2007 by Thomas H. Purvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) To date, that I am aware of, no one has attempted to tackle, hold down, and explain this little item of the WC re-enactment.Not unlike most other aspects, it is in fact quite simple. Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; Commission No. 889 represented by frame 166 is the adjusted position to account for the fact that the Presidential stand-in on May 24 was actually 10 inches higher in the air above the street than the President would have been in the Presidential limousine. Mr. DULLES - Would you explain to us simply how you made those adjustments? Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. DULLES - I mean how did you get him down 10 inches as a practical matter. Mr. FRAZIER - They had marked on the back of the President's coat the location of the wound, according to the distance from the top of his head down to the hole in his back as shown in the autopsy figures. They then held a ruler, a tape measure up against that, both the back of the Presidential stand-in- and the back of the Governor's stand-in, and looking through the scope you could estimate the 10-inch distance down on the automobile. You could not actually see it on the President's back. But could locate that 10-inch distance as a point which we marked with tape on the automobile itself, both for the Presidential and the Governor's stand-in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In event one will take the time to do so, they can check out the exhibits and they will find that there are not photographs from the TSDB in which the aiming point is some 10-inches lower than is the mark on the back of the presidential stand-in. And, with these exhibits, one can then place into proper perspective where a bullet strike would have hit JFK, had his back been in that position, as well as the angle of exit on which the bullet would have struck JBC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - They are so nearly identical that you could not really pick out any difference between the foliage and the photograph taken previously in November. In Commission Exhibit No. 891, which is marked frame 186, this is the adjusted position to which the car was moved to accommodate the 10-inch distance at which the actual wound in the President would have been located had the car been the actual Presidential limousine rather than the stand-in car. Mr. SPECTER - Were you standing, seated, or kneeling at the time when these photographs were taken and the sighting of the rifle was made by you. Mr. FRAZIER - I was actually sitting on a carton with my left elbow resting on the boxes stacked in front of the window. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OH! Now I get it! In the "Adjusted Position" you actually moved the car forward until the point that was some 10 inches lower on the back of the presidential stand-in came into alignment with your "fixed" rifle position. Then, you took a photo from the Zapruder position and called this the "Adjusted Position". Certainly sounds complicated to me! Would not it have been just as easy to lower the rifle line-of-sight, and deal with the REAL position of JFK on Elm St. at the time of the shot???, rather than push the car some few feet down the street, then take the photo from the Z-position and then represent this off as the actuall position of JFK at a given frame of the Z-film? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is certainly no wonder that Mr. West thought you people did not know what you were doing. Nevertheless, he fully understood what it was all about after one of our conversations. And, we both enjoyed a good laugh at the silliness of the actions which you (The WC) went through to obscure and obfuscate the facts of the assassination. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. FRAZIER - On Commission Exhibit No. 892, also marked frame No. 207, the car was moved forward under the tree to the point where the spot on the Presidential stand-in's back just became visible beyond the foliage of the tree. I had the car stopped at that point so that this photograph could be made there. On Commission Exhibit No. 893, also marked frame 210, we have the photograph made at the adjusted position to accommodate the 10-inch difference in height between the stand-in and the actual position of the wound above the street and on the President's body. Mr. SPECTER - What was the alinement of President Kennedy's stand-in with Governor Connally's stand-in at frames 207 and 210? Mr. FRAZIER - They both are in direct alinement with the telescopic sight at the window. The Governor is immediately behind the President in the field of view. Was that your question? Mr. SPECTER - Yes. Mr. FRAZIER - Alinement of people? Mr. SPECTER - Yes, sir. Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER - Could Governor Connally have taken a shot in the range of frames 207 to 210 which would have traversed his body with the entry and exit points being approximately what they were shown to be through the medical records? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do seem to recall that you (the WC) were somewhat negligent in publishing some of the frames of the Z-film within this area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite a coincidence, especially since this is exactly where Time/Life, the US Secret Service, the FBI, and even the first survey of the WC indicated that the first shot was fired. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would therefore suppose, that not unlike the third/last/final shot, that if one neglects to publish the frames of the film for the shot, that the shot can be made to completely disappear. Now! If one could only resolve exactly why would the WC want to Jack up the rifle firing position in the sixth floor window, and thereafter have an aiming point elevation that was in fact some 10- inches higher than the actual aiming point to JFK during the assassination. Surely it could not be because of something which may have been located within the "Zone A" area between what would have been seen by the shooter as opposed to what the WC decided to make us believe was actually seen. Sure glad that they (the WC) did not pull that wool over my eyes also! Don't it just "irk" you to no extent when you find that someone has told you the factual truth, yet you were so engaged in chasing mythological creatures and persons who plant bullets on stretchers, that you did not even recognize what is the simple truth. Certainly glad that I never assumed that I was smarter and/or more qualified than was Robert Frazier in determination of exactly how CE399 came to exist. Now, do you suppose that Frazier would have any idea as to exactly what it was that could make a 2,200+fps, 6.5mm Carcano bullet, begin to "tumbled in flight". Methinks that Frazier is smart enought to resolve that issue as well, since he also knew that missing 0.9 grain, cone-shaped/flat-based lead fragment which disappeared from CE840 also most probably came from the base of CE399, as well as insuring that history recorded exactly who it was that made this lead fragment disappear. Edited July 28, 2007 by Thomas H. Purvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 Us pore ole "simple minded" southern boys have to keep things quite simple and correlative with the exact facts in order to understand all of this complicated stuff. I have hunted the woods of the south, the jungles of Central America, and the jungles of Southeast Asia, and have yet to find a unicorn. Thus, I never wasted my time in hunting something which I knew did not ever exist, at least in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) How convenient that the exposed lead core at the base of the WCC Carcano bullet measures exactly 4.5mm in diameter, and the simple fact that JFK had an anterior throat wound of approximately 5mm. Edited July 28, 2007 by Thomas H. Purvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 A few other items which us ole country boys are aware of is the fact that when someone has a nice neat 4mm X 7mm oval "punch" type wound in their back, and the flat base of a deformed bullet measures exactly 4mm X 7mm, and yet the nose of the bullet is for all practical purposes still completely round, then even our sixth grade "Jethro Bodine" children can recognize exactly which end of the projectile struck and created the hole. Next, when we recognize that a bullet striking in the normal nose first position does not normally carry fabric from the clothing down into the wound of entry, yet the wound of entry of JFK had considerable fabric which had been "punched" out and carried down into the wound, that there must be something unusual about exactly how the bullet entered. Next, when we recognize that the entry of a bullet nose-first DOES NOT create a nice round "punch-type" hole of entry which has relatively clean-cut edges, and yet this is the type wound in the back of JFK, then we again recognize that there must be something out of the ordinary as to exactly how the projectile struck. Next, when we know that either a "paper punch" or a flat-nosed "wadcutter" bullet creates an entry point which has relatively clean cut edges, and we recognize that CE#399 has only one flat end, and that flat end measures the exact dimensions as to the entry wound into the back of JFK, and that entry wound had relatively clean-cut edges, then even our "Jethro Bodine" sixth grade children can figure out exactly which end of CE399 struck JFK and is responsible for the back entry wound. I would thus guess that those of us from these backwoods of south Mississippi are just too "simple minded", and are just highly confused with what are the forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 29, 2007 Author Share Posted July 29, 2007 For those limited few persons here who are into factual research, one last posting of that information relative to CE399 and how it came to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bartetzko Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Next, when we know that either a "paper punch" or a flat-nosed "wadcutter" bullet creates an entry point which has relatively clean cut edges, and we recognize that CE#399 has only one flat end, and that flat end measures the exact dimensions as to the entry wound into the back of JFK, and that entry wound had relatively clean-cut edges, then even our "Jethro Bodine" sixth grade children can figure out exactly which end of CE399 struck JFK and is responsible for the back entry wound. I know little about ballistics. Could you or "Jethro" just answer a couple of questions for me....1) what is the likelihood of a tumbling bullet leaving what appears to be a clean 4x7mm wound? 2) wouldn't any tumbling bullet leave a much larger wound, more in keeping with the length of the bullet itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Next, when we know that either a "paper punch" or a flat-nosed "wadcutter" bullet creates an entry point which has relatively clean cut edges, and we recognize that CE#399 has only one flat end, and that flat end measures the exact dimensions as to the entry wound into the back of JFK, and that entry wound had relatively clean-cut edges, then even our "Jethro Bodine" sixth grade children can figure out exactly which end of CE399 struck JFK and is responsible for the back entry wound.I know little about ballistics. Could you or "Jethro" just answer a couple of questions for me....1) what is the likelihood of a tumbling bullet leaving what appears to be a clean 4x7mm wound? 2) wouldn't any tumbling bullet leave a much larger wound, more in keeping with the length of the bullet itself? I know little about ballistics. Well! While I dig out the answer to your question, perhaps a little comparison would be of benefit. P.S. It was long ago reviewed by one with the full credentials of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) and a full member of AFTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 For those "new guys" who were not around for the quickie course in wound ballistics: Top photo: JFK's "punch"-type wound of entry into his upper back/lower neck. Measurement was 4mm in height X 7mm in width (exactly the same as the base of CE399) Center photo: Typical wound of entry of a 6.5mm Carcano bullet. Bottom photo: Wound of entry created with a "flat-nosed" 6.5mm Carcano bullet (wadcutter). Anyone even vaguely familiar with the subject matter would also be aware that Dr. Boswell specifically stated that the wound of entry was "atypical". He did not say that the wound was "a typical" wound of entry. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=9825 Definition of Atypical Atypical: Not typical, not usual, not normal, abnormal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Better photo's as well as the drawing made by Ida Dox also give us a more clear perspective of the back entry wound and it's "atypical" nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Then of course, one can do a little additional "comparison" in comparing the deformed base of CE399 with the entry wound in the back of JFK as shown in the Dox drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Not being that fond of drawings, the actual close-up photograph of the back entry wound has always been more important in evaluation and comparison of the base of CE399 with the wound of entry. 4mm X 7mm peg 4mm X 7mm hole Even "Jethro" could figure this one out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 In fact! Even ole "Jethro" is smart enough to question exactly why???? by all known phyiscal science, a bullet fired on a downward angle of strike on the human skin creates an elongated entry VERTICALLY. And yet, and in fact, the entry into the back of JFK was elongated HORIZONTALLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 And, as an ole "coon hunter", Jethro would also know that a normal entry of a bullet through clothing, does not remove fabric from the clothing as it merely pushes the fabric aside as it passes through. Exactly like the top left photo of a 6.5mm Carcano bullet through the cloth fabric of a shirt. Therefore, a normal wound of entry would not have fabric from the worn clothing carried down into the wound. However, Jethro is smart enough to recognize that the clothing (shirt shown) as worn by JFK had an oval "Punch-type" section of the fabric removed, and Dr. Boswell has clearly stated that the "atypical" wound of entry into the back of JFK had considerable fabric from the clothing carried down into the wound. You see, Jethro knows that a "paper punch" not only punches out the nice neat little round hole in the paper, but it also carries the removed portion of the paper down into the little "catch tray" which is a part of the paper punch. My oh My, what they are teaching these sixth graders nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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