Radio Coverage and Audio of 11/22/63

[Lee Forman]

I think this may be a good place to dump just about anything - but my primary intent was to look at KBOX-AM. Found some interesting stuff.

Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.

Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.

Mr. SPECTER. How soon thereafter did the flurry of shots come?

Mr. KELLERMAN. They came in, Mr. Specter, while I am delivering that radio message

Gary Mack, in his HSCA testimony:

The first one I want to ask you about and urge you to poke around as much as you can, recordings of the Secret Service radio channels in the motorcade. There were at least two, perhaps three. There is a reference, and I am sorry I don't recall exactly where, but there is a reference that the Dallas Police broadcasts were also monitored by the Secret Service. They had a center set up at the Adolphus Hotel. It was then fed back to Air Force One out at Love Field and then monitored back in Washington.

Those recordings have never surfaced. There is an indication in the testimony from one of the Secret Service agents in the Kennedy car that he had referred to a transcript. Well, a transcript tells me that there must have been a recording somewhere. So I would urge you to check with the Signal Corps or its successor agency or agencies to find out what happened to those transcripts and recordings.

One of the reasons I suggest that is, the agent in question, Agent Kellerman, testified that he had his microphone on when the final shot or shots were fired. It would be theoretically another recording of at least part of the shooting.

2 excellent websites on the HT220 radio:

http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/HT220.html

http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/secretservice220.html

In addition to the radio which Kellerman was using, I found a site where folks recalled where they were at the time of the shooting. There was an interesting piece by a man who claimed his mother was listening to a live radio broadcast, and heard the sounds of what sounded like firecrackers in the background. I have heard that a radio station may have been broadcasting in or nearby Dealey Plaza - anyone know more about that?

Okay - got it myself.

Great site: http://www.reelradio.com/se/

http://www.reelradio.com/comment/comment.c..../se/index.html

The KBOX 24 hour tape containing those reports disappeared, consiquently the "four days" album by UPI & Colpix, contains a "recreation" of those first reports, in fact all of the on the scene interviews and reports that passed through the KBOX microphones were lost with that tape. However, the Colpix album does contain 14 cuts including my own reports and most of the interviews that KBOX carried. To recreate the events of that day: (if I can ever get in touch with Sam he should confirm this version).

I was on the news desk at KBOX and at the half hour, I read a 30 second news break, and returned the air to the disk jocky. Sam came on the two way and very excitedly hollared "Karl, put me on, the police parade frequency is sayiing shots have been fired at the motorcade."

I signlaed the dj to kill the record he was playing and got on the air to introduce Sam with his report of shots being fired at the Presidents motorcade. I started the newsroom tape. Then, (i was stringing for UPI),called the dallas UPI buerau to report the story. I was told to look at my teletype, at that moment the machine's bell began ringing, indicating a flash bulletin. It was Merriman Smith's flash about the shooting, (having won the struggle for the car's radio phone from the AP man). Consiquently, it can be said that Sam and I were the first to broadcast the events that led to the assasanation and four days of no sleep. At this point, I called UPI audio service in new york and gave them a audio report of the event. I laid the telephone down on top of the console, thereby feeding New York everything that came across KBOX's audio news reports. This explains why Colpix had everything except the initial report by myself and Sam Pate.

A sidebar story, my mother , living in Reno, Nevada, was driving into town, with her car radio tuned to a UPI client station and her first news of the assissanation, was her son's (me) initial report about the shooting.

To wind up this correction, six hours later, the station manager came into the newsroom, where Sam and I were discussing the day's doings. He spotted the telephone on the console, and asked what was going on. I told him we had been feeding UPI audio in new york everything we had. He turned to Sam and said "both of you are fired" King, for feeding the reports and letting KLIF do a better job on this story, that goes for you to Pate." I picked up the phone and told the people in New Your I have been fired because of the feed, the said "don't worry, you have been working for us the last six hours!" I was told to report to the Dallas bureau for further instructions. Consiquently I remained in the employ of UPI through the Ruby trial, as the voice of UPI in dallas.

Incidentally, from the comments I have just read, the consensus is that, contrary to the KBOX manager, KBOX did do a better job than KLIF.

KARL KING

I have been reading most of the comments about KBOX Radio in Dallas. 2 days before JFK was to come to Dallas, I found a flyer on my windshield across Oak Lawn Ave. from Jack Rubys Club Vegas. I can't remember all the wording but the jest was, November 22 1963, JFK, traitor will be coming to Dallas. Patriots wear your mourning clothes. I had the only Ch#2 in Dallas and FtWorth. Ch#2 was a sort of B.S. frequency for checking on Homicides , Rapes etc. Friday 22, 1963 I was about ready to get off work, I worked a split shift covering everything that broke out in the city. The Dallas Police dispatcher came on the police monitors and stated that all units that are being assigned to the Presidental motorcade, all transmissions will be conducted on Ch.#2. I radioed the station and advised them of the situation and asked if I should stay on duty mainly because of the flyers found on my windshield. I met Ron Jenkins and covered the arrival of Air Force One ( Joe Long allegedly reported NOW HERE COMES THE PRESIDENTAL JET, EMBLAZONED ON THE SIDES OF THE PLANE, AIR FORCE ONE." wELL, THERE WERE A LOT OF SCREW-UPS ON KLIF. BUT THAT IS THEIR PROBLEMS NOT MINE. I constantly beat them to most of the stories that occured in Dallas adn this one was no exception. Gary Delaune according to another klif newsman, that Delaune was at Joes Bar B Q across from the KLIF studios and there wasn't anyone in the newsroom, I monitored KLIF same as They monitor KBOX. I was on Stemmons Fwy when the radio and Sheriff Bill Decker said to get some men up into those railroad yards and find out where those shots came from. I immediately radioed Karl King that shots have been fired, put a bulletin on immediately. Karl did and then called UPI and according to UPI, we had beaten their own guy Merriman Smith to the story. There were no cell phones back then, tv cameramen didn't have audios. I was in the Northbound Lane faceing the southbound lanes and I was talking to a guy names Josh Dowdell who had pulled up behind me to see if I had car trouble. I told Josh, a friend of mine , to get in and wait for the motorcade..that was when Deckers report came on. After I radioed King, I peeled rubber toward the motorcade and when we met all of us were going about 80 miles per hour and I was heading right for them. I was afraid to veer oneway or another because they might also veer from their lane. Kennedy's car went right by my drivers side, the dark blue cadillac convertible went to my right and Johnson's light blue lincoln went far to my left and almost went off the freeway. When they had went through the chuteheading toward Parkland Hospital and the officers opened the freeway lanes so I couldn't go up the chute the wrong way as I made a HOT U-turn I could see the three cars of the motorcade heading over the Continental bridge over Stemmons Freeway. I turned right onto Continental to Lamar and McKinney Ave. and south on Lamar to Ross Ave. Ross to Houston St. and I was driving with the pedal to the floorboard, blowing my horn and running red lights. I turned onto Houston and the street was under construction and I was bouncing all over the road and Dowdell I think had fainted. A guy by the name of Romack ( warren comm.) a truck driver was standing behind the Depository and there was a barricade and I was planning on crashing it but Romack Moved the barricade for me. I parked about 30 feet from the back of the Depository and no police had arrived when I got there behind the building. I made close to 15 or 20 reports live from the location. Made reports of Officer J.D. Tippett in Oak Cliff but my news director told me to stay where I was. I had several interviews that I fed by two-way to Karl King. After a couple of hours of reports, I took Josh Dowdell back to his car that was on the freeway and went to City Hall and made five or 6 telephone reports from the Press room a couple of doors from Capt. Fritz's office, saw Oswald brounght into Homicide, went to Lucas B&B restaurant a couple of doors from Jacks Club Vegas. It was a dance club, no strippers. I talked to the owner at B&B and I said it was really terrible about the President. I said at least one good thing, they caught the guy who shot him. He said well, they think they did. And that is a real Story. I went to the Radio station near White Rock Lake, picked up Jenkins and a couple of DJ's to help out at City Hall, I have a picture of me in the same room with Oswald and Ruby that Friday night. All of these reports I made downtown and at City Hall were removed from the newsroom and the soundscriber at the transmitter. The only real story was not a good one, it was saying something to the effect that police units were carring shotguns, automatic shotguns ,pump shotsguns and the fire department is here with a large rope...etc. Sam Pate, Kbox Mobile News Unit #4. Oh, the motorcycles were at Elm St and The entrance ramp onto Stemmons Fwy. off their motorcycles talking and there were no sirens being sounded until the harley davidsons started up as the motorcade went over Continental. They then sped to Parkland. The motorcycles around the Presidents car went over the curb and they fell to the ground and they tried to go up the grassy knoll from what the officers said the grass was still wet from the allnight rain earlier and they didn't have good footings. The shooting that killed Kennedy wasn't from a fence but from the storm drain. Bobby Hargis, motorcycly officer said he heard one gunshot toward the Triple underpass, one from the area of the schoolbook depository and the third....You probably never realized what the next one was but Hargis said it souldned muffled. That was the killing shot it was from a 45 Cal. Automatic pistol and the guy who fired it was a hit man and he is an expert marksman, he left the drain boarded a plane and flew back to Chicago. This is so mind boggling it blows my mind. Ron Jenkins has had a couple of bad strokes and is unable to get around or stand. Say what you will about us guys at KBOX but we out reported everybody even the networks and if the tapes hadn't been stolen, confiscated or just out of meaness we would still have the full coverage of reports that you were deprived of. As far as being fired at KBOX, Hell, everybody gets fired at radio stations but I never left any telephone off the receiver, that was Karl Kings Baby, I was downtown doing my job. I later was rehired then later I went to KLIF and last I was News Director at KVIL all in Dallas. I hope this helps you understand about the tapes and they are still missing. God Bless our Men in Iraq, your truly, Sam Pate First to report the shooting of JFK.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Continuation of the Infamous KBOX JFK Tapes. I am trying to help Ron Jenkins get back to health eventhough I am not a Doctor but I can Pray and that help also. When Jenkins came to Dallas from Beaumont, he needed a place to stay until he could make enough money to find an apartment so his wife Ann could come to Dallas. Ron Lived in my middle bedroom for a few months and he cooks a mean Chili and beans. Even though Ron forgot many things in his life, I found where he was in a Nursing Home in Rowlett Texas. It is a long distance to my home in McKinney, Texas but I can only make it to the Nursing Home every other week. From only being able to say Yep and Nope for yes and no but there was nothing he could say. I would ask a question and it was either yep or nope. It was tough but I started asking him questions that required multiple words to complete the questions. Now he talks constantly about everything. If you wish to send an email or card, please send it to me and I will take it to the Nursing Home and read it to him. He has no sight in his eyes but God can change things. What some people cannot seem to understand is that I made the reports at the scene, had eyewitness interviews on cassettes, Made reports of what I saw from behind the Depository, reported about a young man running away from the Depository Building and ran to Houston and Pacific, turned right on Pacific and dropped out of sight. The four hobos that were in the railyards behind the Depository and were taken to the County Sheriffs office and a few minutes later were released. All of them had earphones on and had new shoes on too. Forget about the shots and how many there were, the shot that removed a large portion of JFK's head was hit by a 45 cal. Auto with a silencer and it was only a loud muffled sound according to motorcycle police officers. There were more shots than the Warren Commission's report. OK, put your thinking cap on...your comments are rather silly. If I made "live" reports from the scene within a couple of minutes after the shots were fired and later during that day that the tapes Karl also taped from my "Live" reports were removed and the replocated tapes several days later. Now how in the heck do you expect to hear the shots that never existed ? Make you feel a little silly ? The FBI sent them to be analyzed by some firm and they said there were 4 sounds that were found on that tape. If the guy with the 45 cal. auto with a silencer on it just how many others had the silencers ? The mans name who fired the fatal shot was named BRUNO and he was from Chicago and he and Jack Ruby were goon squad men for the Teamsters Union in the windy city many years ago. Jack Ruby had lived in Dallas for almost 8 years before JFK was killed. I knew Jack very well for about 6 years before Kennedy was killed. Forget about the oneman shooter or two men shooters, there were several of them and some are still around and many of their offsprings are also in the business. Me Scared ? Bet your sweet you know what everytime I think about it and knowing that everyone of them knows me. I can tell you, many of the people on the last anniversary hit right on the head many who were involved in Kennedys death and somebody wants me to tell all I know ? Get Serious. Sam Pate

[Lee Forman]

I have sent an email to Sam Pate and invited him to join the Forum - also sent him a boatload of questions - we'll see what happens...

[Mark Stapleton]

Lee,

You've dug up some interesting stuff. I couldn't play the REELRADIO tapes because it required a subscription, login etc but I read many of the comments.

The tramps having earpieces and new shoes is intersting. I recall Garrison mentioned something about tall tramp having new shoes and a nice haicut. This "young man" running from behing the TSBD to Houston and Pacific, then down Pacific is a new one for me. Hope Sam responds to the E-mail. What chance those recordings showing up? Doubtful, IMO.

Trivia: According to IMDb, Ted Cassidy (Lurch) was working at WFAA that day.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Mark Stapleton

[Steve Thomas]

Lee,

I think this may be a good place to dump just about anything - but my primary intent was to look at KBOX-AM. Found some interesting stuff.

From the last posting on that comments page:

From: Rosalyn Pate Friday, February 3, 2006 at 13:10:54

I am Sam Pate's Daughter.

If you want the facts conact Sam yourself.

Sam can be reached at sampate@sbcglobal.net.

He has some other pretty cool stories, too. All true by the way!

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

Mark,

This "young man" running from behing the TSBD to Houston and Pacific, then down Pacific is a new one for me.

More than likely, this was James Worrell. You can read his actions that day here:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/worrell.htm

Steve Thomas

[Mark Stapleton]

Mark,

This "young man" running from behing the TSBD to Houston and Pacific, then down Pacific is a new one for me.

More than likely, this was James Worrell. You can read his actions that day here:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/worrell.htm

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Thanks for that. Looks like it was Worrell. Love the way Specter tried to push him into identifying dark jacket, light pants man as LHO.

[Robin Unger]

Mark,

This "young man" running from behing the TSBD to Houston and Pacific, then down Pacific is a new one for me.

More than likely, this was James Worrell. You can read his actions that day here:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/worrell.htm

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Thanks for that. Looks like it was Worrell. Love the way Specter tried to push him into identifying dark jacket, light pants man as LHO.

Ce-360

Photo showing Worrells position in front of the TSBD, just behind the car marked with an X

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...Vol16_0491a.htm

[Duke Lane]

I think this may be a good place to dump just about anything - but my primary intent was to look at KBOX-AM. Found some interesting stuff. ... 2 excellent websites on the HT220 radio:

http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/HT220.html

http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/secretservice220.html

Here's another interesting one, does anyone want to comment on it?

... [steve Eberhart's] answer to the question of not hearing gunshots on the broadcast, while plausible, is flawed. Not only did KBOX have exclusive coverage of the motorcade they had complete motorcade coverge. Sam Pate was not following at the rear of the motorcade, he was in front of President Kennedy's car and the police motorcycle escort. He was stopped just under the Elm St. triple underpass when the motorcade turned off Main St onto Houston St. so he could broadcast the Dealy Plaza procession.

News car parked under the bridge as limo was turning onto Elm?

[Lee Forman]

I think this may be a good place to dump just about anything - but my primary intent was to look at KBOX-AM. Found some interesting stuff. ... 2 excellent websites on the HT220 radio:

http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/HT220.html

http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/secretservice220.html

Here's another interesting one, does anyone want to comment on it?

... [steve Eberhart's] answer to the question of not hearing gunshots on the broadcast, while plausible, is flawed. Not only did KBOX have exclusive coverage of the motorcade they had complete motorcade coverge. Sam Pate was not following at the rear of the motorcade, he was in front of President Kennedy's car and the police motorcycle escort. He was stopped just under the Elm St. triple underpass when the motorcade turned off Main St onto Houston St. so he could broadcast the Dealy Plaza procession.

News car parked under the bridge as limo was turning onto Elm?

I saw that Duke. If you follow along the progression, it is Sam Pate's nephew that makes this comment. He later retracts and apologizes, and then Sam Pate posts the pieces I included. Sam makes it clear that he was not in Dealey Plaza at the time shots were fired.

- lee

[Robin Unger]

Sam Pate.

[William Kelly]

Now this is a different Sam Pate than the Sam Pate who owned a garage near Davis Street in Oak Cliff, right?

Quite a few years ago, I gave a lecture on the Kennedy assassination to a college history class, whose teacher then took the class of ten or twelve students to Dallas for the November 22nd weekend that year. I got them in to the COPA conference and introduced them to Wes Wise, who gave them his trail of the assassins tour of Dallas.

Wes also invited us to a TSBD event on the 7th floor - the video taping of a show of a half-dozen Dallas radio reporters, including Wes Wise, and possibly Sam Pate.

I just want to make sure there's two Sam Pates - the radio guy and the mechanic.

BK

[Duke Lane]

Now this is a different Sam Pate than the Sam Pate who owned a garage near Davis Street in Oak Cliff, right?

Quite a few years ago, I gave a lecture on the Kennedy assassination to a college history class, whose teacher then took the class of ten or twelve students to Dallas for the November 22nd weekend that year. I got them in to the COPA conference and introduced them to Wes Wise, who gave them his trail of the assassins tour of Dallas.

Wes also invited us to a TSBD event on the 7th floor - the video taping of a show of a half-dozen Dallas radio reporters, including Wes Wise, and possibly Sam Pate.

I just want to make sure there's two Sam Pates - the radio guy and the mechanic.

BK

The garage was owned by Mack Pate, no relation. I asked Sam, and that's what he said ... along with an anecdote about his (Sam's) and his dad's bank accounts getting mixed up with Mack Pate's for a while, unfortunately not to their benefit! I don't know if Sam was a part of that taping or not. I'll ask him when I see him in the next couple of weeks. He ain't no shrinking violet, that's a fact!

[William Kelly]

Now this is a different Sam Pate than the Sam Pate who owned a garage near Davis Street in Oak Cliff, right?

Quite a few years ago, I gave a lecture on the Kennedy assassination to a college history class, whose teacher then took the class of ten or twelve students to Dallas for the November 22nd weekend that year. I got them in to the COPA conference and introduced them to Wes Wise, who gave them his trail of the assassins tour of Dallas.

Wes also invited us to a TSBD event on the 7th floor - the video taping of a show of a half-dozen Dallas radio reporters, including Wes Wise, and possibly Sam Pate.

I just want to make sure there's two Sam Pates - the radio guy and the mechanic.

BK

The garage was owned by Mack Pate, no relation. I asked Sam, and that's what he said ... along with an anecdote about his (Sam's) and his dad's bank accounts getting mixed up with Mack Pate's for a while, unfortunately not to their benefit! I don't know if Sam was a part of that taping or not. I'll ask him when I see him in the next couple of weeks. He ain't no shrinking violet, that's a fact!

Got it Duke - Sam radio, Mack garage.

I think Wes Wise knew them both.

And do ask about the videotaped program at TSBD 7th floor re: radio reporters covering assassination.

I'm sure Gary Mack knows about it and may have a transcript. I was cassette tape recording the event, but a security goon made me turn it off and promised that the video tape would be made available to the public.

Thanks Duke,

BK

[Lee Forman]

Sam Pate may be joining the Forum.

Vegas Club, 3508 Oak Lawn in Dallas

Lucas B&B at 3520 Oak Lawn in Dallas

Some info on the Lucas B&B. Close to the Vegas Club. Mentioned several times in the Warren Report. Appears to have been the restaurant in which 'Oswald' was seen with Ruby and others. As per the final quote here, 'Oswald' was even seen with Ruby shortly after 1:00am at the B&B, even though Lee Harvey Oswald, the individual arrested for the assassination of JFK and the murder of JD Tippit, was incarcerated.

I don't know who the owner of the B&B would have been at the time of Sam Pate's story.

Found on Ken Rahn's site:

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Reactions_from_readers.html

From "eric," 20 Jul 2000

Gandanf2@aol.com

Subject: kennedy assassination

When I was a teenager I worked in a small but well known cafe here in Dallas. I never really paid attention but after the assassination of the president everyone talked about how a few of our customers: J.D. Tippett, Jack Ruby, and Lee Oswald would eat together. I don't remember seeing them... but quite a few others remembered very well... so much for my tales of Lucas B&B restaurant in Dallas in the '60s.

*******************

My reply, same day

Dear Sir:

Thank you for your remembrances of the days before the assassination. Could you please tell me who you are and why you are passing them on to me? I'm curious.

Sincerely, Ken Rahn

*******************

His reply, 21 July

My name is eric. I was just doing some history searching on Alta vista and saw your site. I thought it might be interesting to make a comment about it. I made one other comment on the 25th anniversary to a radio station when I lived in Houston. The DJ hung up on me at the time but his two secret service guests told them that they'd heard about what I was saying. Its not a thing that keeps me awake late at night thinking about... I just mention it when it crosses my mind... and your website brought it to the forefront.

********************

My reply, same day

Dear Eric,

Thanks for the further information. As you know, there is considerable controversy over whether any of the three people you mentioned knew each other. From everything we know about witness testimony, especially well after the fact, we have to be very careful with it. This, my reaction to it has to be "interesting, but not probative." While someone has found an old photo of David Ferrie and Lee Oswald in a group of campers around some sort of cooking fire, I am not aware of any physical evidence that would establish your friends' reminiscences. My mind remains open to the possibility, however.

I don't know if you follow the JFK newsgroups, and I certainly don't in any detail, but I seem to remember some brief discussion some weeks ago of an eating place in Dallas that might have been this one. It was in the context of the best BBQ places in Dallas, or something like that. Someone told the story of the "old regulars: who used to eat there even though the food was not very good. Does this ring a bell with you?

Any comments on my web site?

Ken Rahn

********************

His reply, same day

Sorry, the owner of Lucas B&B restaurant, is now diseased [sic]. As far as I know, his son and wife are still alive and they worked at the restaurant from time to time and might have seen all three eating there together... or might remember former employees that have knowledge of it.

...

From John Armstrong on the web:

http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/NID98.txt

But the FBI did not tell us about Mary Lawrence, head waitress of the

Lucas B&B Restaurant, who had known Jack Ruby for eight years. (RIGHT

36) She told the FBI she saw Oswald and Ruby together in the restaurant

shortly after 1:00 a.m., while Oswald was sitting in the Dallas jail.

I hope Mr. Pate will join us and provide us with some more information on what he saw, heard and experienced in the days proceeding, on that Friday, and the days after.

Can't help wondering if it's Ruby that Lee Oswald is showing his cuffs to in this photo.

[Steve Thomas]

Lee,

Some info on the Lucas B&B.... I don't know who the owner of the B&B would have been at the time of Sam Pate's story.

I once did some poking around on the Lucas B&B, and here's what I came up with. These are just raw notes.

In the DPD Archives, attached to a typed complaint about three men in a blue and white Ford speeding on South Hampton at about 3:00 p.m. on the 22nd, there is this undated, handwritten note:

Off B.M. Simmons 1514 was eating breakfast at Lucas B&B at 4:00 a.m. Tuesday and heard a waitress say that she had seen Ruby with Oswald in B&B several times.

Beck

(DPD Archives Box 7, Folder# 8, Item# 39)

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box7.htm

Simmons worked the Traffic Division, Accident Prevention Bureau 11:00p.m. to 7:00 a.m. shift under Sgt. W.R. Russell (Batchelor Exhibit 5002 at 19H132.)

The Beck who signed this handwritten note would more than like by Ernest R. Beck who worked the Criminal Investigation Division, Homicide and Robbery Bureau under Captain Fritz. (Batchelor Exhibit 5002 at 19H145.)

On January 27, 1964 District Attorney, Henry Wade wrote an Undeveloped Lead – Ruby Case memorandum. The memo reads:

Olin Scurlock, EM3-1061, called Thursday, January 23, and stated that a friend of his, Paul Emory’s barber had told him that one of the Lucases at the B&B Café on Oak Lawn had told him that Ruby had been in their place of business with Oswald on more than one occasion.

Emory, the barber and Lucas should be interviewed to see if there is anything to this or not.

A handwritten annotation at the bottom of this memo reads: Interview Mary Lawrence 4325 Chestnut

(DPD Archives Box 18, Folder# 7, Item# 29

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box18.htm

The Lucas B&B at 3520 Oak Lawn, phone number, LA 6-9097 was a couple of doors down from the Vegas Club at 3508 Oak Lawn. I imagine that Ruby dropped in there quite frequently after the Vegas Club closed at 2:00 a.m.; in fact, he had a history with the B&B as he was arrested there by Officers W. M. Wall and Detective C. W. Deloney at 3:34 in the morning on July 26, 1953 for carrying a concealed weapon. Interestingly enough, in his memo to Chief Curry written on December 12, 1963, Deloney said that Dr. George Boswell, “a resident physician at Parkland Hospital was with us.”

(DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 7, Item# 21)

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm

Ruby was released by R. L. Patton and P. Dillehay by permission of Captain Westbrook.

DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 7, Item# 20

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm

As early as the 24th of November, authorities were aware of this possible connection between Oswald and Ruby. On November 24, 1963 FBI Agents Nat Pinkston and George Carlson interviewed Pete Lucas, Manager of the Lucas B&B Restaurant. Lucas told the FBI that Ruby used to frequent the coffee shop section of the restaurant, but he had been kicked out for creating a disturbance with another customer and told never to come back. The interview report reads in part, “MR. LUCAS stated that he knows of no particular associates of RUBY other than the fact that he has seen him on occasions in the company of Dallas Police Officers and riding in Dallas Police Squad cars.” Lucas was shown a photograph of Oswald and told the FBI that had never seen Oswald in the company of Jack Ruby.

Henry Wade wrote his memo on January 27, 1964. Apparently Wade had received information that one of the Lucases had told someone that Ruby had “been in their place of business with Oswald on more than one occasion.”

On the 28th, Detective D. N. Boyd of the DPD Criminal Intelligence Section interviewed Pete Lucas. In his memo to Chief Curry, Boyd said that Lucas stated that both Jack Ruby and his sister, Eva Grant were forbidden to enter his restaurant. Lucas stated that waitress Mary Lawrence had told him that she saw Ruby and Oswald eating in the restaurant prior to the assassination. Lucas went on to tell Boyd that Lawrence was a chronic xxxx and tended to fabricate stories. Lucas said that there was no truth to the story.

However, at the end of the memo, Boyd wrote that Lucas told him that the FBI and two detectives from the Homicide Bureau had already interviewed Mary Lawrence.

DPD Archives Box 18, Folder# 7, Item# 19

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box18.htm

In the DPD Archives, there is a copy of an interview with Mary Lawrence conducted by Detectives R. W. Westphal and P. M. Parks of the Criminal Intelligence Section, but it is dated January 30, 1964 – two days after the interview with Pete Lucas referenced earlier.

I have not yet found a copy of the FBI interview with Mary Lawrence, nor are there copies of any earlier interviews of her conducted by the DPD.

In the January 30th interview, Mary told the Dallas Police that Oswald had come into the Lucas B&B at about 2:15 a.m. on November 22nd. (The Oswald we know was home in bed in Irving at that time). She stated that this man was positively Lee Harvey Oswald. “Oswald” said he was waiting for Jack Ruby. Ruby came in a short time later, and “Oswald” joined him. “Oswald” left around 2:45 a.m. She then went on to say that she couldn’t be sure that it was Oswald, but if he had a small deep scar on his left cheek, it was him. She then told the Police that a few days after the assassination she received an anonymous phone call telling her to get out of town or she would die.

DPD Archives Box 18, Folder# 7, Item# 24

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box18.htm

The handwritten note from Beck concerning information Officer Simmons had received, and the memo from Henry Wade about an undeveloped lead, both indicate that Ruby and Oswald were observed together in the Lucas B&B on more than one occasion. The DPD interview of Mary Lawrence only references this one incident.

I tried to email the “eric” you referenced at the aol email address he had in 2000, but it bounced back as undeliverable.

From the HSCA deposition of Jack Todd (a notorius Dallas criminal):

Q. Did you ever back in the, we'll say, the early 50's, do. you recall a restaurant called the B & B on Oaklawn Street?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you used to frequent that?

A. On occasions, yes, sir.

I appears that the Lucas B&B Restaurant was part of larger concern.

On March 18, 1999 the Texas House of Representatives adopted a Resolution honoring the memory of George Faithon Lucas, who in 1938, returned from college to devote his time and talents to the family businesses of Lucas Farms in Mesquite and the Lucas B&B restaurant in Dallas and at his father's behest ran the farm during World War II. George died at the age of 79 in April of 1998. Under his direction, the Resolution reads, “WHEREAS, Throughout the years, Lucas Farms prospered greatly under his direction, growing to become one of the largest dairies in Texas; at one time, it included more than 4,000 acres and 600 milk cows…”

“RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives of the 76th Texas Legislature hereby honor the memory of George Faithon Lucas and extend sincere sympathy to the members of his family: to his daughter and son-in-law, Carolyn Lucas Bass and John R. Bass, Sr.; to his grandson, John R. Bass, Jr., and his wife, Eloise Barry Bass; to his granddaughter, Sarah Elizabeth Bass; to his brother and sister-in-law, Faithon P. Lucas, Jr., and Evelyn Dees Lucas; to his sisters and brother-in-law, Elizabeth Faithon Lucas, Mary Lucas Barunes, Helen Lucas Pappas, and Pete H. Pappas; to his sister-in-law, Ethel Zotos Lucas; and to his 17 nieces and nephews.”

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlo/76R/billtext/HR00242F.HTM

Lucas Farms was in Mesquite. Mary Lawrence lived there as well.

Steve Thomas

Dallas History Message Board

Re: Lucas B&B

Posted By: Lee Chevalier <lee.c2.chevalier@mail.sprint.com>

Date: Thursday, 12 September 2002, at 12:27 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Lucas B&B (Jerry Felts)

Actually, the Lucas family, though dispersed, is still in several food operations in/around DFW. They have that lovely Greek habit of large families, all tied to one another in sometimes remote ways. The Lucas B&B neon sign was left (alas, not the Phil's Delicatessen sign across the street) on Oak Lawn as its family owners hit a generation who wanted to develop other businesses. The original Lucas B&B (Better and Better?) cafes in the last century were downtown (there's a good photo in A.C.'s book) in several locations, including the Adolphus (Akard side entrance behind the cigar store) Hotel before they moved into the Oak Lawn location. Faithon Lucas could boast that his eggs came from his own farms; that you could eat breakfast at any time ("Have an 'After the Show'," the menu offered, referring to the nearby Esquire Theatre).

The last B&B location, since filled by Pappadeaux, included a separate cocktail lounge and the breakfast room replete with Miss Polly and other "Flo"-type waitpersons.

The intersection of Oak Lawn and Lemmon is worth a chapter in any Dallas history. The Lucas family also included Virginia Nick, who has underwritten opera, cultural events (especially Greek) and Greek Orthodox labors in this region.

Steve Thomas