Is this the man who shot Tippit?

[Jim Feemster]

THIS THREAD STARTS HERE;

THE CAB DRIVER TURNS LEFT ON S. BECKLEY PASSES OSWALD'S ROOMING HOUSE, THE PASSENGER DIRECTS THE CABBY TO THE CORNER OF S.BECKLEY AND NEELY AND SAYS, " OK. LET ME OUT HERE".

NOW THE CABBY TESTIFIES THAT HIS PASSENGER GIVES HIM A DOLLAR FOR THE .95 CENT FARE AND SAYS KEEP THE CHANGE, EXITS THE CAB, CROSSES AROUND THE FRONT OF THE CAB ACROSS S. BECKLEY AND IS LAST SEEN WALKING SOUTH TOWARDS JEFFERSON, 10 TH. ST., PATTON, { TAKE YOUR PICK }.

WHERE THIS " CAB RIDE MAN " GOT OUT OF THE CAB IS APPROX. 5 LONG RESIDENTIAL BLOCKS SOUTH FROM 1026 S. BECKLEY, THIS WOULD PUT HIM ABOUT 1/4 TO 1/3 OF THE WAY TO THE TIPPIT KILLING SITE AT 10 TH & PATTON WEARING CLOTHING NEAR TO THE DESCRIPTION THE POLICE HAD ANNOUNCED OVER THE RADIO . ACCORDING TO THE CABBY'S SOMEWHAT PUZZLED DESCRIPTION WHICH AS I REMEMBER WAS GIVEN THE NEXT DAY HIS CLOTHING DESCRIPTION WAS CLOSE ENOUGH FOR THE WC.

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS " CAB RIDE MAN " WAS OSWALD. MAYBE HE JUST LIKED TO TAKE CAB RIDES UNTIL HIS MONEY RAN OUT AND THEN LIKED TO JUST GO WALKING AROUND FOR AWHILE.

IF HE WASN'T OSWALD, HE IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT WAS WITNESSED WALKING IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF THE TIPPIT KILLING.

IF HE WAS INVOLVED IN LEADING THE COPS TO THE TEXAS THEATER HE WOULD HAVE ARRIVED AT THE TIPPIT SCENE AT JUST ABOUT THE REAL TIME OF THE TIPPIT MURDER AND OSWALD { IF HE DID WALK FROM THE BUS STOP NORTH OF HIS ROOMING HOUSE TO THE TEXAS THEATER } COULD HAVE BEEN IN PLACE IN TIME TO BE CAPTURED AS HE WAS.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS, OPINIONS, OR FACTS?

JIM FEEMSTER

{ NOT ANOTHER LONE NUTTER }

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS " CAB RIDE MAN " WAS OSWALD...

ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS, OPINIONS, OR FACTS?

JIM FEEMSTER

{ NOT ANOTHER LONE NUTTER }

Hello Jim, I suggest that the one witness who identified Lee Oswald at lineups that weekend who deserves to be considered reliable is Whaley the cab driver. Whaley is the only lineup witness who had a conversation with him. They discussed Lee's bracelet, and Whaley had a special interest in bracelets as I recall his testimony. Lee sat in the front seat of the Taxi, so that Whaley had a good opportunity to get a good close-up look at him, in contrast to the Tippit witnesses who saw a man in the distance and/or only for a brief few moments while those witnesses were in a state close to shock.

I would be interested to know why you question Whaley's relibility. I acknowledge that Whaley was thoroughly confused about Lee's clothing and that the lineups were grossly unfair. Whaley himself is an important witness to this fact. Indeed, one could argue that his statement about the unfairness of the lineup only bolsters his credibility, while I doubt if I would be any better at recalling what my son wore yesterday, even though we were both home for President's Day virtually all day.

To sustain your thesis I think you have to establish that Whaley was deliberately lying.

[Lee Forman]

Hello Jim.

From Sam Pate:

What some people cannot seem to understand is that I made the reports at the scene, had eyewitness interviews on cassettes, Made reports of what I saw from behind the Depository, reported about a young man running away from the Depository Building and ran to Houston and Pacific, turned right on Pacific and dropped out of sight.

I made one report of the guy running at a 45 degree angle. He started close to the building then made the 45 degree run across the opposite of the street. he turned right eastbound onto Pacific Ave. He was running very fast and he never looked back toward the TSBD, not even to see if a police might be looking at him. He was wearing a light tan Eisenhower jacket and I believe he was wearing Jeans

Roger Craig:

As to Lee Harvey Oswald shooting J. D. Tippit, let us examine the evidence: Dallas Police Unit #221 (Summers-refer-police radio log) stated on the police radio that he had an "eye ball" witness to the shooting. The suspect was a white male about twenty-seven, five feet, eleven inches, black wavy hair, fair complexioned, (not Oswald) wearing an Eisenhower-type jacket of light color, dark trousers, and a white shirt, apparently armed with a .32 caliber, dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand. (The jacket strongly resembles that worn by the driver of the station wagon).

I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon;

I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;

Armstrong site:

Witnesses to the Tippit shooting

Mr. Clark, a barber at the 10th Street Barber Shop, 620 E. 10th, told SA Carl Underhill (11/29/63) that he "had seen a man whom he would bet his life on was Oswald passing the shop in a great hurry and had commented on same to a customer in the chair". The barber shop is 3 blocks north of Jack Ruby's apartment, where Lee Oswald had been seen the previous night by a guest of Ruby's next door neighbor (interview with Helen McIntosh).

William Lawrence Smith was walking east toward the Town and Country Cafe (604 E 10th) a few minutes after 1:00 pm. Smith "felt sure that the man who walked by him going west on 10th St. was Lee Harvey Oswald" (interview of Smith by Brookhart 1/13/64). At this time, approximately 1:04 PM, "Harvey Oswald" was a mile away --- seen by housekeeper Earlene Roberts standing at the bus stop on the corner of Zang and Beckley.

Jimmy Burt, across the street from the construction site where W.L Smith was working, watched the same man as he came from the direction of the Town and Country Cafe and continued walking west on 10th. Burt described him as a white male, approximately 5'8", wearing a light colored short jacket (interview of Burt by SA Christianson and Acklin 12/16/63). Burt watched as the man passed them and continued walking west toward Patton. As the man approached Tippit's patrol car, Tippit rolled down his passenger side car window and spoke to this man.

William Arthur Smith was with Burt at the time and described the same man seen by he and Burt as "a white male, about 5'7" to 5'8", 20 to 25 years of age, 150-160, a white shirt, light brown jacket and dark pants (interview of Smith by SA Ward and Basham 12/13/63). Both Burt and Smith watched this unknown man as he walked toward Patton, approached the squad car, spoke with Tippit, and then shot him.

Jack Roy Tatum was driving east on 10th St. As he "approached the squad car, he noticed this young white male with both hands in the pockets of his zippered jacket leaning over the passenger side of the squad car". "It looked as if Oswald and Tippit were talking to each other. There was conversation. It did seem peaceful." Tatum swore "he had on a light colored zipper jacket, dark trousers and what looked like a t-shirt on". He also remembered Oswald "as having dark hair, dark eyes of medium build and around 5'10". At the point where Tatum drove slowly past Tippit's squad car, he was less than 10 ft from Oswald. Tatum did not see Oswald wearing a brown shirt, just a white T-shirt (HSCA --- Moriarty 2/1/78)

WW Scoggins said Oswald wore dark trousers and a light shirt.

Domingo Benavides remembered "the back of his head seemed like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapering off. His hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off." Oswald's hairline, as we know from numerous photographs taken on November 22nd, extended well down his neck and past his collar line --- it was not "squared off" as described by Domingo Benavides. Helen Markham said Oswald was "wearing a light gray looking jacket and kind of dark trousers" (WC testimony, Vol pg 502).

Ted Callaway described Oswald to DPD Officer HW Summers as "white male, 27, 5'11",165 lbs, black wavy hair, fair complected, wearing light gray Eisenhower type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt" (CE 705, pg 27). When interviewed many years later, Callaway again said "he had on a white Eisenhower type jacket and a white T-shirt" --- again no brown shirt, just a white T-shirt.

Mary Brock was the next person who identified Oswald's clothing. She said Oswald was wearing "light clothing, a light colored jacket and with his hands in his pocket" (interview of Brock by SA Kesler and Mitchem 1/22/64).

DPD dispatch 1:22 PM: Last seen about the 300 block East Jefferson. He's a white male about 30 5'8". Black hair, slender, wearing a white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks.

DPD dispatch 1:33 PM: w/m/30 5'8", very slender build, black hair, a white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks.

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_i.../mcwatters.html

The man seen by Sam Pate ran up Pacific. Did he doubleback? Take the bus? Is he the same man that later is approached by Tippit? Is there more than one individual running around DP in tan Eisenhower jackets directly after the shooting?

- lee

[Lee Forman]

That's not an automatic.

[Jim Feemster]

THIS THREAD STARTS HERE;

THE CAB DRIVER TURNS LEFT ON S. BECKLEY PASSES OSWALD'S ROOMING HOUSE, THE PASSENGER DIRECTS THE CABBY TO THE CORNER OF S.BECKLEY AND NEELY AND SAYS, " OK. LET ME OUT HERE".

NOW THE CABBY TESTIFIES THAT HIS PASSENGER GIVES HIM A DOLLAR FOR THE .95 CENT FARE AND SAYS KEEP THE CHANGE, EXITS THE CAB, CROSSES AROUND THE FRONT OF THE CAB ACROSS S. BECKLEY AND IS LAST SEEN WALKING SOUTH TOWARDS JEFFERSON, 10 TH. ST., PATTON, { TAKE YOUR PICK }.

WHERE THIS " CAB RIDE MAN " GOT OUT OF THE CAB IS APPROX. 5 LONG RESIDENTIAL BLOCKS SOUTH FROM 1026 S. BECKLEY, THIS WOULD PUT HIM ABOUT 1/4 TO 1/3 OF THE WAY TO THE TIPPIT KILLING SITE AT 10 TH & PATTON WEARING CLOTHING NEAR TO THE DESCRIPTION THE POLICE HAD ANNOUNCED OVER THE RADIO . ACCORDING TO THE CABBY'S SOMEWHAT PUZZLED DESCRIPTION WHICH AS I REMEMBER WAS GIVEN THE NEXT DAY HIS CLOTHING DESCRIPTION WAS CLOSE ENOUGH FOR THE WC.

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS " CAB RIDE MAN " WAS OSWALD. MAYBE HE JUST LIKED TO TAKE CAB RIDES UNTIL HIS MONEY RAN OUT AND THEN LIKED TO JUST GO WALKING AROUND FOR AWHILE.

IF HE WASN'T OSWALD, HE IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT WAS WITNESSED WALKING IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF THE TIPPIT KILLING.

IF HE WAS INVOLVED IN LEADING THE COPS TO THE TEXAS THEATER HE WOULD HAVE ARRIVED AT THE TIPPIT SCENE AT JUST ABOUT THE REAL TIME OF THE TIPPIT MURDER AND OSWALD { IF HE DID WALK FROM THE BUS STOP NORTH OF HIS ROOMING HOUSE TO THE TEXAS THEATER } COULD HAVE BEEN IN PLACE IN TIME TO BE CAPTURED AS HE WAS.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS, OPINIONS, OR FACTS?

JIM FEEMSTER

{ NOT ANOTHER LONE NUTTER }

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS " CAB RIDE MAN " WAS OSWALD...

ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS, OPINIONS, OR FACTS?

JIM FEEMSTER

{ NOT ANOTHER LONE NUTTER }

Hello Jim, I suggest that the one witness who identified Lee Oswald at lineups that weekend who deserves to be considered reliable is Whaley the cab driver. Whaley is the only lineup witness who had a conversation with him. They discussed Lee's bracelet, and Whaley had a special interest in bracelets as I recall his testimony. Lee sat in the front seat of the Taxi, so that Whaley had a good opportunity to get a good close-up look at him, in contrast to the Tippit witnesses who saw a man in the distance and/or only for a brief few moments while those witnesses were in a state close to shock.

I would be interested to know why you question Whaley's relibility. I acknowledge that Whaley was thoroughly confused about Lee's clothing and that the lineups were grossly unfair. Whaley himself is an important witness to this fact. Indeed, one could argue that his statement about the unfairness of the lineup only bolsters his credibility, while I doubt if I would be any better at recalling what my son wore yesterday, even though we were both home for President's Day virtually all day.

To sustain your thesis I think you have to establish that Whaley was deliberately lying.

[Jim Feemster]

HI J. RAYMOND,

THANKS FOR RESPONDING.

WHILE I DON'T THINK WHALEY WAS LYING I KNOW THAT HE CHANGED HIS TESTIMONY { OR HAD IT CHANGED FOR HIM } ON SEVERAL OCCASSIONS.

EX. FROM " RUSH TO JUDGEMENT ' MARK LANE SAYS, ON PAGE 168, {QUOTE };

IN HIS AFFIDAVIT OF NOVEMBER 23, MOREOVER, WHALEY HAD STATED THAT HIS FARE ' GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WALKED IN FRONT OF THE CAB AT AN ANGLE SOUTH ON BECKLEY STREET.' OSWALD'S ROOMING HOUSE WAS NORTH, AND THE COMMISSION HAD IT THAT OSWALD WALKED DIRECTLY THERE. IT IS INTERESTING THEREFORE THAT WHEN WHALEY TESTIFIED ON MARCH 12, HE SAID THAT HIS PASSENGER ' WENT AROUND IN FRONT, YES SIR; CROSSED THE STREET... I DIDN'T SEE WHETHER HE WALKED NORTH OR SOUTH FROM THERE.'

WHALEY AGAIN, ON PAGE 166, [ QUOTE ] ' THAT IS WHAT I TOLD YOU I NOTICED. I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE SHIRT BEING OPEN, HE HAD ON THE TWO JACKETS WITH THE OPEN SHIRT... HE HAD THIS COAT HERE ON OVER THAT OTHER JACKET, I AM SURE , SIR.'

QUOTE SAME PAGE FROM LANE; ' WHALEY WOULD APPEAR TO HAVE DECIDED THAT OSWALD HAD BEEN WEARING BOTH JACKETS AT ONCE, BUT THE COMMISSION CONCEDED THAT THE TAXIE DRIVER WAS IN ERROR NO MATTER WHICH JACKET HE CHOSE.

WHALEY TESTIFIED THAT OSWALD WAS WEARING EITHER THE GRAY ZIPPED JACKET OR THE HEAVY BLUE JACKET. HE WAS IN ERROR, HOWEVER. OSWALD COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN WEARING THE BLUE JACKET DURING THE TRIP WITH WHALEY, SINCE IT WAS FOUND IN THE ' DOMINO ' ROOM OF THE DEPOSITORY LATE IN NOVEMBER.'

AS TO THE GRAY JACKET, THE COMMISSION SAID THAT OSWALD PICKED IT UP AT HIS ROOMING HOUSE AFTER LEAVING WHALEY'S CAB.' [ END QUOTE ]

AS TO THE ID BRACELET, THEY WERE PRETTY COMMON BACK THEN. I WAS IN THE FIFTH GRADE LIVING IN LANCASTER, ABOUT 14 MILES SOUTH OF DOWNTOWN DALLAS. SEVERAL BOYS IN MY CLASS HAD THEM. THEY COULD BE PURCHASED AT ' DIME ' STORES FOR ABOUT 3.00 DOLLARS AND ENGRAVED FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE. SOME VARITIES HAD A HASP WHICH COULD BE LIFTED TO PLACE A PICTURE OF YOUR GIRLFRIEND INSIDE. KIND OF LIKE A GIRL'S LOCKET WOULD FUNCTION.

HOW WOULD WHALEY KNOW OSWALD EVEN OWNED A BLUE JACKET SINCE THERE WAS NO WAY HE SEEN OSWALD WEARING IT. I BELIEVE HE WAS COACHED. AND WAS ALSO COACHED ABOUT THE BRACLET.

SO ONE CAN BELIEVE ONE THING OR ANOTHER [ AND I CAN SEE YOUR POINT ] ABOUT THE BLINK BLINK.

IF THE MAN HAD ON ANY JACKET THE SLEEVE WOULD HAVE COVERED THE BRACELET PART OF THE TIME AND WHALEY MIGHT HAVE INDICATED THAT HE COULD SEE A BRACELET STICKING OUT UNDER THE JACKET SLEEVE. BUT HE DID NOT.

I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THIS GUY WAS OSWALD. BUT OF COURSE I DON'T KNOW WHO HE WAS.

TO GARY MACK, HELLO.

I MAKE THE SAME BASIC KIND OF ARGUMENT ABOVE CONCERNING WHALEY'S FARE WALKING SOUTH OR NORTH AFTER EXITING THE CAB. DEPENDS ON WHICH STATEMENT YOU BELIEVE.

TO LEE FOREMAN; HI LEE,

I READ THE OTHER NITE ON THIS FORUM SOMEWHERE THAT THE FELLOW YOU SPEAK OF RUNNING TOWARD PACIFIC WAS IDENTIFIED. ANYONE REMEMBER WHAT THREAD THIS WAS ON?

JIM FEEMSTER

[Jim Feemster]

HI J. RAYMOND,

THANKS FOR RESPONDING.

WHILE I DON'T THINK WHALEY WAS LYING I KNOW THAT HE CHANGED HIS TESTIMONY { OR HAD IT CHANGED FOR HIM } ON SEVERAL OCCASSIONS.

EX. FROM " RUSH TO JUDGEMENT ' MARK LANE SAYS, ON PAGE 168, {QUOTE };

IN HIS AFFIDAVIT OF NOVEMBER 23, MOREOVER, WHALEY HAD STATED THAT HIS FARE ' GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WALKED IN FRONT OF THE CAB AT AN ANGLE SOUTH ON BECKLEY STREET.' OSWALD'S ROOMING HOUSE WAS NORTH, AND THE COMMISSION HAD IT THAT OSWALD WALKED DIRECTLY THERE. IT IS INTERESTING THEREFORE THAT WHEN WHALEY TESTIFIED ON MARCH 12, HE SAID THAT HIS PASSENGER ' WENT AROUND IN FRONT, YES SIR; CROSSED THE STREET... I DIDN'T SEE WHETHER HE WALKED NORTH OR SOUTH FROM THERE.'

WHALEY AGAIN, ON PAGE 166, [ QUOTE ] ' THAT IS WHAT I TOLD YOU I NOTICED. I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE SHIRT BEING OPEN, HE HAD ON THE TWO JACKETS WITH THE OPEN SHIRT... HE HAD THIS COAT HERE ON OVER THAT OTHER JACKET, I AM SURE , SIR.'

QUOTE SAME PAGE FROM LANE; ' WHALEY WOULD APPEAR TO HAVE DECIDED THAT OSWALD HAD BEEN WEARING BOTH JACKETS AT ONCE, BUT THE COMMISSION CONCEDED THAT THE TAXIE DRIVER WAS IN ERROR NO MATTER WHICH JACKET HE CHOSE.

WHALEY TESTIFIED THAT OSWALD WAS WEARING EITHER THE GRAY ZIPPED JACKET OR THE HEAVY BLUE JACKET. HE WAS IN ERROR, HOWEVER. OSWALD COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN WEARING THE BLUE JACKET DURING THE TRIP WITH WHALEY, SINCE IT WAS FOUND IN THE ' DOMINO ' ROOM OF THE DEPOSITORY LATE IN NOVEMBER.'

AS TO THE GRAY JACKET, THE COMMISSION SAID THAT OSWALD PICKED IT UP AT HIS ROOMING HOUSE AFTER LEAVING WHALEY'S CAB.' [ END QUOTE ]

AS TO THE ID BRACELET, THEY WERE PRETTY COMMON BACK THEN. I WAS IN THE FIFTH GRADE LIVING IN LANCASTER, ABOUT 14 MILES SOUTH OF DOWNTOWN DALLAS. SEVERAL BOYS IN MY CLASS HAD THEM. THEY COULD BE PURCHASED AT ' DIME ' STORES FOR ABOUT 3.00 DOLLARS AND ENGRAVED FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE. SOME VARITIES HAD A HASP WHICH COULD BE LIFTED TO PLACE A PICTURE OF YOUR GIRLFRIEND INSIDE. KIND OF LIKE A GIRL'S LOCKET WOULD FUNCTION.

HOW WOULD WHALEY KNOW OSWALD EVEN OWNED A BLUE JACKET SINCE THERE WAS NO WAY HE SEEN OSWALD WEARING IT. I BELIEVE HE WAS COACHED. AND WAS ALSO COACHED ABOUT THE BRACLET.

SO ONE CAN BELIEVE ONE THING OR ANOTHER [ AND I CAN SEE YOUR POINT ] ABOUT THE BLINK BLINK.

IF THE MAN HAD ON ANY JACKET THE SLEEVE WOULD HAVE COVERED THE BRACELET PART OF THE TIME AND WHALEY MIGHT HAVE INDICATED THAT HE COULD SEE A BRACELET STICKING OUT UNDER THE JACKET SLEEVE. BUT HE DID NOT.

I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THIS GUY WAS OSWALD. BUT OF COURSE I DON'T KNOW WHO HE WAS.

TO GARY MACK, HELLO.

I MAKE THE SAME BASIC KIND OF ARGUMENT ABOVE CONCERNING WHALEY'S FARE WALKING SOUTH OR NORTH AFTER EXITING THE CAB. DEPENDS ON WHICH STATEMENT YOU BELIEVE.

TO LEE FOREMAN; HI LEE,

I READ THE OTHER NITE ON THIS FORUM SOMEWHERE THAT THE FELLOW YOU SPEAK OF RUNNING TOWARD PACIFIC WAS IDENTIFIED. ANYONE REMEMBER WHAT THREAD THIS WAS ON?

JIM FEEMSTER

[Lee Forman]

TO LEE FOREMAN; HI LEE,

I READ THE OTHER NITE ON THIS FORUM SOMEWHERE THAT THE FELLOW YOU SPEAK OF RUNNING TOWARD PACIFIC WAS IDENTIFIED. ANYONE REMEMBER WHAT THREAD THIS WAS ON?

JIM FEEMSTER

Hi Jim.

Yes - on the Sam Pate KBOX thread. But I am not clear on it. Was the man Pate saw James Worrells - who stopped running behond the TSBD, or the man seen by Worrells, or someone else? Is Worrells possibly the man mistaken for Oswald on the bus? No clue, but I also do not believe that Oswald was the one to shoot Tippit, or Kennedy for that matter. I haven't taken the time to figure out that whole mess - the Greyhound Bus station was Lamar and Commerce I believe? Isn't that where James Worrells was headed?

- lee

[James Richards]

Hi Lee,

This guy below is James Worrel. I have often wondered if he could have been mistaken for Oswald?

James

[J. Raymond Carroll]

WHILE I DON'T THINK WHALEY WAS LYING I KNOW THAT HE CHANGED HIS TESTIMONY { OR HAD IT CHANGED FOR HIM } ON SEVERAL OCCASSIONS.

HOW WOULD WHALEY KNOW OSWALD EVEN OWNED A BLUE JACKET SINCE THERE WAS NO WAY HE SEEN OSWALD WEARING IT. I BELIEVE HE WAS COACHED. AND WAS ALSO COACHED ABOUT THE BRACLET.

JIM FEEMSTER

The Commission lawyer showed him the blue jacket and asked if he could identify it. I commented on this in my earlier post. If Whaley worked in a men's clothing store, for example, we might expect him to pay attention to what Lee was wearing, but it is obvious that he did not, and was comepletely confused by the jackets he was shown. I do not find this remarkable, and would probably have done no better myself.

It is true that Whaley first said that his passenger headed south in his affidavit, but changed it to north in his testimony. He testified that he signed the affidavit without reading it. He also changed his mind about precisely where his passenger got out, but the change was very little help to Lee Oswald's accusers.

If he had been coached to testify that he dropped Lee outside his roominghouse, now THAT would have been a great help to the commission lawyers and would have allowed them to assert that his landlady was off in her timing and that Lee had left his roominghouse BEFORE 1 o'clock, giving him several additional minutes to walk to the Tippit scene.

His testimony about Lee's offer to give up his "getaway" car to a lady was even more inconvenient for the Commission lawyers, as was his testimony about the unfairness of the lineups. All in all, Whaley's testimony is much more favorable to Lee Oswald than it is to the prosecution, and no one has shown that he had a motive to lie on Lee's behalf. Granted, he did not have a photographic memory for events that were, at the time, merely a routine part of his day, but photographic memories are very rare (probably non-existant) and it is a rare witness indeed, no matter how honest he may be, who does not stumble in his recollection of some detail or other.

If Whaley was coached, then his coaches did an abysmally poor job, and I simply do not understand what Mark Lane was trying to accomplish when he questioned Whaley's credibility.

[Jim Feemster]

j. raymond,

J, I'M NOT CONTENDING THAT WHALEY LIED.

BUT IN HIS ' DAY AFTER REMEMBERANCE ' HE SWORE IN HIS DP AFFIDAVIT THAT OSWALD CROSSED IN FRONT OF HIS CAB AND WAS WALKING OFF IN A SOUTHERNLY DIRECTION.

SO BETWEEN NOVEMBER AND MARCH, HIS SWORN TESTIMONY TO THE WC CHANGES IN A VERY SPECIFIC WAY. HE STATES SPECIFICALLY THAT HE DOESN'T REMEMBER IF OSWALD WENT NORTH OR SOUTH. NOT EAST OR WEST OR THAT HE SAT ON THE CURB. THIS TESTIMONY CONVIENTLY LETS THE WC HAVE ITS' WAY WITH THE TIME ELEMENT , PUTTING OSWALD WHERE THEY NEED HIM TO BE---10TH & PATTON. DID HE WAIVE HIS SIGNATURE FOR HIS WC STATEMENT?

IF YOU PUT HELEN MARKHAM'S TESTIMONY ONE ONE PLATE AND THE TOTAL OF WHALEY'S ON ANOTHER IT LOOKS LIKE THE SAME MEAL TO ME.

WHALEY IS NOT EVEN SURE HIS TESTIMONY CAN BE GIVEN CREEDENCE WHEN HE SAYS , .."A GOOD LAWYER COULD TEAR MY TESTIMONY APART." { OR WORDS TO THAT THE EFFECT }.

I THINK IT WAS FRITZ WHO TOLD OSWALD, " THIS MAN HERE {roger craig } SAYS HE SAW YOU LEAVE THE DEPOSITORY IN A CAR." AND OSWALD SAID, " I TOLD YOU I DID. THAT STATION WAGON BELONGS TO RUTH PAYNE, DON'T BRING HER INTO THIS." { NOT VERBATIM }

IF OSWALD DIDN'T GET ON THE BUS AND IF ONE READS THE STATEMENTS MCWATTERS [ THE BUS DRIVER] MADE , YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T, THEN HE PROBABLY DIDN'T GET IN THE CAB. IF THE CAB RIDE MAN WASN'T OSWALD THEN SOMEONE WAS EITHER DRESSED LIKE HIM OR WASN'T DRESSED LIKE HIM DEPENDING ON WHICH TESTIMONY OF WHALEYS' ONE BELIEVES.

MARS' "CROSSFIRE " PUTS OSWALD IN THE TEXAS THEATER DURING THE TIPPIT KILLING SITTING NEXT TO SEVERAL PEOPLE POSSIBLY TRYING TO ESTABLISHED AN UNKNOWN CONTACT.

OSWALD'S BRACELET WAS ON HIS LEFT WRIST. THIS CAN SEEN IN PHOTOS AT THE POLICE STATION WHILE HE IS HANDCUFFED WIYH HIS RIGHT FIST RAISED. WHALEY SAYS OSWALD SAT UP FRONT WITH HIM DURING THE CAB RIDE. THIS WOULD MAKE HIS LEFT WRIST THE CLOSEST TO WHALEY. SO WHALEY SAYS HE NOTICES THE BRACELET. BUT IF OSWALD IS WEARING A JACKET OR TWO JACKETS I STILL THINK THE JACKET SLEEVE WOULD COVER IT MOST OF THE TIME AND ONLY LET THE BRACELET BE SEEN IF HE REACHED FOR SOMETHING , THE STRETCHING EXPOSING THE BRACELET. HERE WHALEY NEVER MENTIONS THE JACKET.

I DON'T THINK WHALEY LIED BUT I DON'T THINK THEY CAB RIDE MAN WAS OSWALD.

JIM FEEMSTER

[J. Raymond Carroll]

[quote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212']

I THINK IT WAS FRITZ WHO TOLD OSWALD, " THIS MAN HERE {roger craig } SAYS HE SAW YOU LEAVE THE DEPOSITORY IN A CAR." AND OSWALD SAID, " I TOLD YOU I DID. THAT STATION WAGON BELONGS TO RUTH PAYNE, DON'T BRING HER INTO THIS." { NOT VERBATIM }

Jim, I think you and I will end up agreeing to differ on Whaley's reliability, and that is fine. As to Roger Craig's allegation that Lee Oswald made a statement that was tantamount to an admission of involvement in the assassination, I do not find Craig credible. I understand that the late Mary Ferrell, who got to know Craig quite well, came to the same conclusion. FWIW, Fritz denied that this conversation ever happened, and no other witness backs up Craig, as far as I know.

quote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212']

"IF OSWALD DIDN'T GET ON THE BUS AND IF ONE READS THE STATEMENTS MCWATTERS [ THE BUS DRIVER] MADE...

There is other evidence he was on the bus, namely the bus transfer, the testimony of his former landlady, and his own statement in custody.

[quote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212']

MARS' "CROSSFIRE " PUTS OSWALD IN THE TEXAS THEATER DURING THE TIPPIT MURDER....

No argument from me on that one, though the remainder of Marrs's assertion is speculative.

[ote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212'][/quu]

SO WHALEY SAYS HE NOTICES THE BRACELET. BUT IF OSWALD IS WEARING A JACKET OR TWO JACKETS I STILL THINK THE JACKET SLEEVE WOULD COVER IT MOST OF THE TIME .... HERE WHALEY NEVER MENTIONS THE JACKET.

As I indicated in previous posts, I believe there is no doubt that Whaley was mistaken about the jacket(s).

[ote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212'][/quu]

I DON'T THINK WHALEY LIED BUT I DON'T THINK THEY CAB RIDE MAN WAS OSWALD.

JIM FEEMSTER

I think we agree that Whaley's testimony was honest, and must agree to disagree on most of the remainder.

[Lee Forman]

Hi Lee,

This guy below is James Worrel. I have often wondered if he could have been mistaken for Oswald?

James

Hi James.

I thought the same thing - for the bus ride, at any event, which doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever. Armstrong really did a bang-up job of struggling with it. To be honest, I never took the time to work it out, but I wonder if this is the same bus that Oswald allegedly rode on. Okay - I worked it out. In order to turn on Ervay, Worrell would have had to make a right from Ross. The opposite direction is Akard. I have no idea where his Mother's office is supposed to be located, but McWatter's normal Ervay stop is on Elm.

Is it possible that Worrell could have run from the TSBD, paused 3 minutes, seen a man bang out of the building, then run up Pacific, turn on Market, run up Ross, turn on Ervay, see the bus headed off in the distance, run and catch it at Griffin? I think it looks very possible. McWatter's is leaving St Paul and Elm at 12:36pm. He is stopping for his normal stops and is probably encountering above normal traffic conditions.

Oops - wouldn't take the gif.

- lee

Mr. SPECTER - All right. What did you do next, Mr. Worrell?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, I went on down this way and headed back to Elm Street.

Mr. SPECTER - Indicating you went on down to Pacific?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And then proceeded --

Mr. WORRELL - No, no; that is wrong. I went on Pacific and --

Mr. SPECTER - Just a minute. You proceeded from point "Y" on in a generally northerly direction to Pacific and then in what direction did you go on Pacific, this would be in an easterly direction?

Mr. WORRELL - I went east.

Mr. SPECTER - You went in an easterly direction how many blocks down Pacific?

Mr. WORRELL - I went down to Market and from Market I went on Ross.

Mr. SPECTER - You went left on Market down to Ross, and then?

Mr. WORRELL - From Ross I went all the way to Ervay.

Mr. SPECTER - Where were you heading for at the time?

Mr. WORRELL - For the bus stop near my mother's office. And I rode the bus from there out to the school and hitchhiked the rest of the way to Farmer's Branch.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Lee Forman]

McWatters. One interesting aside - Sam Pate has stated that the KBOX-AM broadcast ['I repeat, something has happened on the motorcade route!'] was a recreation. It was not a genuine on air broadcast made that day. The sirens in the background were not heard for some time after the shooting. McWatters appears to confirm this also.

Mr. BALL - What time are you due, according to your schedule, to leave the corner of St. Paul and Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - 12:36.

Mr. BALL - What time did you leave there that day?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I left there that day on time because coming into town that day, I guess everybody done went to, down to, see the parade, I didn't have over four or five passengers coming into downtown.

Mr. BALL - Were you ahead of your schedule?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I stopped about a block before now, just a block before we get to St. Paul, there is a big theater there, and it has all loading zones, no parking there and a lot of times if we are a minute or two ahead of our schedule when we pull in in front of this theater before we get there in time, in other words, we kill a minute.

Mr. BALL - What did you do this day?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I was a little ahead of my schedule and I killed about a minute, I guess, before I went to cross St. Paul Street.

Mr. BALL - After your dispatcher checked you in what time did you leave that corner of St. Paul and Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, the best I can remember I don't recall even picking up a passenger there. I think I discharged one lady passenger there on that, to the best I can recall, because I remember that I had, when I crossed Field Street, I think I had five passengers on my bus.

Mr. BALL - Well then, back to *the question, what time did you leave that day, leave Elm and St. Paul?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I would have to say I left there around, in other words, 12:36 because I know I was on good time when I come in there.

Mr. BALL - And you think you left at the time you were supposed to leave?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I am almost positive I did, because, as I say, we generally come in on schedules on good time because from that street on is where we generally--for the next seven or eight blocks--is where we get all of our passengers going through the downtown area.

Mr. BALL - Had you heard any sirens before you got to St. Paul and Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Mr. BALL - Do you know if your dispatcher keeps a written record?

Mr. McWATTERS - The only way he keeps a written record is if you are ahead of your schedule. He has a little pad, and if a man is ahead of his schedule, in other words, he writes, of course, we all go by badge numbers, in other words, he would write your badge number, your bus number, and if you was ahead of schedule he would write how much ahead of schedule you were, and--

Mr. BALL - Do you think he did anything, did he write anything up on you on that day?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; the guy that we have down there now, if you are ahead of schedule he will come out, in other words, because he stands on the corner all the time, and if you are a minute or two ahead of your schedule he will come out and if nothing else, converse with you for a minute or two to see that you leave it on time and very seldom, I mean, if ever--of course, a report goes in on you, it goes against your record.

Mr. BALL - In other words, if he did make a record it would be by way of a reprimand to you?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - As you went on down Elm you left your post at St. Paul and Elm, did you hear any sirens?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Mr. BALL - Did you pick up any passengers?

Mr. McWATTERS - I picked up within a period of from the time I picked up two or three passengers, I can't recall just exactly which stop. I have after I leave St. Paul Street, I have Ervay Street and Akard Street, and Field Street which would be three stops where I can't recall that, exactly where I discharged or picked up passengers, because I had the few passengers that I had which I came into town with.

Mr. BALL - Well then, do you remember picking up a passenger at a place other than at a bus stop as you went down Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

As I left Field Street, I pulled out into the, in other words, the first lane of traffic and traffic was beginning to back up then; in other words, it was blocked further down the street, and after I pulled out in it for a short distance there I come to a complete stop, and when I did, someone come up and beat on the door of the bus, and that is about even with Griffin Street.

In other words, it is a street that dead ends into Elm Street which there is no bus stop at this street, because I stopped across Field Street in the middle of the intersection and it is just a short distance onto Griffin Street, and that is when someone, a man, came up and knocked on the door of the bus, and I opened the door of the bus and he got on.

Mr. BALL - You were beyond Field and before you got to Griffin?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is right. It was along about even with Griffin Street before I was stopped in the traffic.

Mr. BALL - And that is about seven or eight blocks from the Texas Book Depository Building, isn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir. It would be seven, I would say that is seven, it would be about seven blocks.

Mr. BALL - From there?

Mr. McWATTERS - From there, yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - What did the man look like who knocked on your door and got on your bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I didn't pay any particular attention to him. He was to me just dressed in what I would call work clothes, just some type of little old jacket on, and I didn't pay any particular attention to the man when he got on-

Mr. BALL - Paid his fare, did he?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; he just paid his fare and sat down on the second cross seat on the right.

Mr. BALL - Do you remember whether or not you gave him a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - Not when he got on; no, sir.

Mr. BALL - You didn't. Did you ever give him a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I gave him one about two blocks from where he got on.

Mr. BALL - Did he ask you for a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Do you remember what he said to you when he asked you for the transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, the reason I recall the incident, I had--there was a lady that when I stopped in this traffic, there was a lady who had a suitcase and she said, "I have got to make a 1 o'clock train at Union Station," and she said, "I don't believe from the looks of this traffic you are going to be held up."

She said, "Would you give me a transfer and I am going to walk on down," which is about from where I was at that time about 7 or 8 blocks to Union Station and she asked me if I would give her a transfer in case I did get through the traffic if I would pick her up on the way.

So, I said, "I sure will." So I gave her a transfer and opened the door and as she was going out the gentleman I had picked up about 2 blocks asked for a transfer and got off at the same place in the middle of the block where the lady did.

Mr. BALL - Where was that near, what intersection?

Mr. McWATTERS - It was the intersection near Lamar Street, it was near Poydras and Lamar Street. It is a short block, but the main intersection there is Lamar Street.

Mr. BALL - He had been on the bus about 2 blocks?

Mr. McWATTERS - About 2 blocks; yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Up to that time had you heard any sirens?

Mr. McWATTERS - Not up until--now just about the time that, let's see, that is when I left Griffin, right about the time this gentleman got on the bus the traffic was starting and that was about the first that I can recall of hearing the sirens, but when, in other words, when they started it seemed to me like they was coming from all over town.

[Jim Feemster]

[quote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212']

I THINK IT WAS FRITZ WHO TOLD OSWALD, " THIS MAN HERE {roger craig } SAYS HE SAW YOU LEAVE THE DEPOSITORY IN A CAR." AND OSWALD SAID, " I TOLD YOU I DID. THAT STATION WAGON BELONGS TO RUTH PAYNE, DON'T BRING HER INTO THIS." { NOT VERBATIM }

Jim, I think you and I will end up agreeing to differ on Whaley's reliability, and that is fine. As to Roger Craig's allegation that Lee Oswald made a statement that was tantamount to an admission of involvement in the assassination, I do not find Craig credible. I understand that the late Mary Ferrell, who got to know Craig quite well, came to the same conclusion. FWIW, Fritz denied that this conversation ever happened, and no other witness backs up Craig, as far as I know.

quote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212']

"IF OSWALD DIDN'T GET ON THE BUS AND IF ONE READS THE STATEMENTS MCWATTERS [ THE BUS DRIVER] MADE...

There is other evidence he was on the bus, namely the bus transfer, the testimony of his former landlady, and his own statement in custody.

[quote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212']

MARS' "CROSSFIRE " PUTS OSWALD IN THE TEXAS THEATER DURING THE TIPPIT MURDER....

No argument from me on that one, though the remainder of Marrs's assertion is speculative.

[ote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212'][/quu]

SO WHALEY SAYS HE NOTICES THE BRACELET. BUT IF OSWALD IS WEARING A JACKET OR TWO JACKETS I STILL THINK THE JACKET SLEEVE WOULD COVER IT MOST OF THE TIME .... HERE WHALEY NEVER MENTIONS THE JACKET.

As I indicated in previous posts, I believe there is no doubt that Whaley was mistaken about the jacket(s).

[ote name='Jim Feemster' date='Feb 22 2006, 09:12 PM' post='56212'][/quu]

I DON'T THINK WHALEY LIED BUT I DON'T THINK THEY CAB RIDE MAN WAS OSWALD.

JIM FEEMSTER

I think we agree that Whaley's testimony was honest, and must agree to disagree on most of the remainder.