Clint Hill and the SS Agents in Dallas

[Ron Ecker]

Boy, those Cellar fruit drinks must have been good. I wonder if they were anything like a pina colada, or like a fruit drink I had in a Peruvian restaurant called the Vicious Virgin (the drink, not the restaurant).

[Lee Forman]

Lee

I agree totally that these SS men should've been disciplined according to the guidelines put

forth by Section 10, Chapter 1, page 7 of the SS manual. I consider this episode a coverup within

the coverup.

Actually, it is not a mystery as to who consumed what, how much, and what time they did leave.

It's all in the agents' reports to Chief Rowley. They were;

David Grant, 1 scotch, left the Cellar at 2:45 a.m.

Richard Johnsen, 2 beers at the Press Club, left the Cellar at 12:45 a.m.

John Ready, 2 beers at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 3:15 a.m.

Clint Hill, 1 scotch at the Press Club, 1 "fruit drink" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 2:45 a.m.

Ernest Olsen, 1 1/2 "fruit drink" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 1 a.m.

Paul Landis, 1 scotch at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 5 a.m.

Donald Lawton, 3 beers at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 3 a.m.

Andrew Berger, 2 beers at the Press Club, 1 "fruit drink" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 2:15 a.m.

Glenn Bennett, 2 beers at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 3:00 a.m.

(Source for the above reports is CE 1020)

According to Vince Palamara's excellent book, "The Third Alternative," ten men were

in the follow up car directly behind the presidential limousine. (Appendix 1, page 1).

If we exclude the two presidential advisors, Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers, who were in the

car, actually eight SS men were in or on the car. Four of them are on the list above. They

are John Ready, Clint Hill, Paul Landis, and Glenn Bennett.

Could any of them stop the assassination had their instincts been quicker? That's speculation,

but there must be a reason for the SS manual to have a specific section which prohibits the consumption

of alcoholic beverages while on duty. And all of these men were officially on duty.

One more piece of information from Palamara's book. In the appendix section, there are notes

taken by Palamara when he interviewed Sam Kinney on March 5, 1994, and again on April 15, 1994.

Kinney told Palamara that Emory Roberts recalled SSA Ready and ordered the men not to move (even

after recognizing 1st shot) (p. 3 of hand written notes of interview).

Bill C

Thanks for that Bill. Great stuff.

A few comments. Quick anecdote - I was once pulled over in a roadblock - I informed the officer that I had 5 beers over the course of the evening. The evening began at 7:00pm, and I was in the process of dropping off a friend at 2:30am. 5 beers over something like a 6 - 7 hour period. Of course, I was made to go through all of the various tests - I always reject the alphabet backwards routine - I can't do that under any condition. So long story short, I passed all the tests and then complained about it the following day to a friend that is a cop. He informed me that I was a fool to have told the truth - the number 5 was a red flag. I was much better off to quickly say '2 beers' but not to say 'None.'

So here we've got a bunch of grown men, who probably have a history of carousing [i'll need to read Lamar's book] nursing one or two drinks over a period of many hours. Is that believable? Normally you stay until 2:45am because you are enjoying yourself, and building a steadily increasing pleasant sensation of intoxication.

Or as another example, just as I was taught while working a job that had 'tips' while at College - never report the full amount of your tips. In the first place, you are not being paid minimum wage, since the G'ment automatically assumes that you will not be reporting honestly. Secondly, if you do report honestly, and no one else is, it will prompt an investigation and make everyone else look bad. Third, if you did report 100% they would tax it so severely you would wish that you had not. So every once in awhile you claim a few dollars - just to make it look good.

I would hazard to guess that we've got a lit here that is essentially window dressing. Additionally, I have seen higher estimates on the number of SS at the Cellar. Maybe I'll have to go back and check the reference again. I remember reading it - just need to find and and check the source.

Another comment - you're heading into nut Country - where you are anticipating a hostile response and everyone is aware of this as a fact [the Adlai incident for example]. This is documented. However, it's okay to abandon your post, leave the Dallas firemen on watch while you wet your whistle and stay out late, reducing your overall capability during the motorcade through Dallas - the Big D - the City of Hate. That gets me also.

From an operation perspective - let's simply consider some speculation: Perhaps the first shot was supposed to draw a response from the Queen Mary - a test shot. No reaction. During the ensuing barrage of rounds - if you are on assignment and part of one of the cells, maybe even a shooter - what are you thinking when you watch the entire cavalry high tail it out of there? Are you in amazement? Maybe laughing even? No one is even jumping off to have a look - except the press.

Anyway - I suppose my initial post was a bit over-emotional. The blatant hypocrisy in much of the material I have read which absolves the SS of any blame is simply irksome. What is more likely is that some of the Palace Guards would have been complicit in the knowledge of the impending plan to murder the King, and acted accordingly.

If you watch Rybka getting 'dissed' at Love Field in the Wolper production 4 Days in November - I would like to get someone familiar with lip-reading to see if they can't translate the conversation. That would be interesting.

On the 'fruit juice' - it was my impression that this was a splash of fruit juice and grain alcohol - which can be as high using natural processes as 192 proof [without resorting to chemical means to go higher] - or 96% alcohol. If you drink too much of that too fast, there is the serious danger of shutting down your hypothalmus - I believe that there is also the possibility of permanent damage to the vision. I was taught in school that one drink [12 oz beer] = one drink [6 oz wine] = one drink [shot of whiskey]. Beer, if you include real beer, as opposed to yellow colored, bubbly, sour tasting water [VERY popular here in the states] - comes in with a percentage around 4 - 6% normally. There are higher percentages of course, but for beer, when you approach anything in the 12% range, for example, you are essentially drinking strong tasting syrup. One beer is not the equivalent in terms of intoxicating effects when compared with one shot of grain alcohol - and these men were not drinking shots.

- lee

Edited April 23, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Bill Cheslock]

]

Robin

A very timely photograph. This award, the "Exceptional

Service Award," was presented to Clint Hill on December 3, 1963

for his, "bravery in attempting to protect President John F. Kennedy."

("The Third Alternative" by Vince Palamara, photo section).

In another photo of the same ceremony, Mrs. Kennedy can be

seen standing to the left of Hill. It seems everyone wanted her in photos.

LBJ insisted that she stand next to him during the swearing in on AF One.

This award was given very soon after the assassination, eleven days by

my count. One has to wonder if this ceremony, complete with Mrs. Kennedy

in attendance, was a much needed morale booster for the Secret Service, which

had to be experiencing internal disaray at this time.

Bill C

[Bill Cheslock]

That's terrible. I had no idea of this. I suppose one has to take his word for the amount he drank? The times would barely give him a decent night sleep and then be bright and ready for the job. One way or the other, some impairment of function sounds reasonable to expect. (I wonder if there are any hints of 'upper' use? Hair of the dog? One wouldn't expect them to be keen to admit to any sort of abuse. Whose idea was it to go to town? Had they been released to do so, was it standard practise? no doubt all this has been hashed over previously.)

John - this is a well known and well worn subject. This was partially covered also in a thread on the first black SS - Lamar Waldron - concerning the drinking by the SS. One link to Lamar...

http://www.calitreview.com/Interviews/waldron_8024.htm

There has been speculation concerning the bartender at the Cellar who served the drinks - Pat Kirkwood -

you can Google this, or probably even do a search here on the Forum for more info - how many SS were actually there [anyone's guess since I have seen different numbers], who drank how much and who left at

what time - probably a mystery for all time.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v2n1/chrono2.pdf

The fact of the matter is plain and I feel strongly about this in terms of my personal opinion - anyone that had been drinking at the Cellar the evening before the assassination should have been instantly terminated without further renumeration of any kind. PERIOD. No pension, no benefits, no severance. Their primary function was to protect the Commander-in-Chief. Not only did they fail to perform this task miserably, but some of them had been up until the wee hours of that very day - and we are talking about grain alcohol and a cover-up on this matter as well. FIRED - instantly.

Why should they have been treated any differently than anyone else? Would anyone in a similar professional capacity today be extended the same 'courtesy?'

Fired and with shame heaped upon all their heads...and lucky to have this as an option. In some Countries they would have simply been taken out back and shot.

Clint Hill didn't seem to appreciate Vince Salandria's last published work. Was he fit for duty when he protected a corpse all the way to Parkland? The other SS are not heroes - if something I heard once was on the level, then firepower prepared in Dealey - according to plan - was anticipating retaliation - not flight. Does that not make them cowards? It doesn't matter how you feel about Kennedy - objectively speaking, they fled - despite the fact that shots were being fired and they were armed to the teeth. Is that logical? Is that in any way logical?

Then there were the write-ups on the SS and the difficulty of their job, their rigorous training, how they could not have been blamed for what transpired etc., along with the Oswald propaganda, poor Kennedy, and 'that LBJ is one cool SOB stuff' - absurd. But that is the phenomenon of recorded history and the 'Golden Rule.'

- lee

Lee

I agree totally that these SS men should've been disciplined according to the guidelines put

forth by Section 10, Chapter 1, page 7 of the SS manual. I consider this episode a coverup within

the coverup.

Actually, it is not a mystery as to who consumed what, how much, and what time they did leave.

It's all in the agents' reports to Chief Rowley. They were;

David Grant, 1 scotch, left the Cellar at 2:45 a.m.

Richard Johnsen, 2 beers at the Press Club, left the Cellar at 12:45 a.m.

John Ready, 2 beers at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 3:15 a.m.

Clint Hill, 1 scotch at the Press Club, 1 "fruit drink" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 2:45 a.m.

Ernest Olsen, 1 1/2 "fruit drink" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 1 a.m.

Paul Landis, 1 scotch at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 5 a.m.

Donald Lawton, 3 beers at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 3 a.m.

Andrew Berger, 2 beers at the Press Club, 1 "fruit drink" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 2:15 a.m.

Glenn Bennett, 2 beers at the Press Club, 2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar, left the Cellar at 3:00 a.m.

(Source for the above reports is CE 1020)

According to Vince Palamara's excellent book, "The Third Alternative," ten men were

in the follow up car directly behind the presidential limousine. (Appendix 1, page 1).

If we exclude the two presidential advisors, Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers, who were in the

car, actually eight SS men were in or on the car. Four of them are on the list above. They

are John Ready, Clint Hill, Paul Landis, and Glenn Bennett.

Could any of them stop the assassination had their instincts been quicker? That's speculation,

but there must be a reason for the SS manual to have a specific section which prohibits the consumption

of alcoholic beverages while on duty. And all of these men were officially on duty.

One more piece of information from Palamara's book. In the appendix section, there are notes

taken by Palamara when he interviewed Sam Kinney on March 5, 1994, and again on April 15, 1994.

Kinney told Palamara that Emory Roberts recalled SSA Ready and ordered the men not to move (even

after recognizing 1st shot) (p. 3 of hand written notes of interview).

Bill C

To picture it in a slightly different way by reorganising the info kindly posted. Mostly I just wanted an idea of who left when.

..Richard Johnsen..2 beers at the Press Club................................................left the Cellar at.00:45

.......Ernest Olsen........................................1 1/2 "fruit drink" at the Cellar...left the Cellar at 01:00

...Andrew Berger..2 beers at the Press Club ....1 "fruit drink" at the Cellar......left the Cellar at 02:15

............Clint Hill*.1 scotch at the Press Club...1 "fruit drink" at the Cellar........left the Cellar at.02:45

.Donald Lawton....3 beers at the Press Club.....2 "fruit drink" at the Cellar...... left the Cellar at 03:00

...Glenn Bennett*.2 beers at the Press Club.... 2 "fruit drink" at the Cellar.......left the Cellar at 03:00

.......John Ready*.2 beers at the Press Club.....2 "fruit drink" at the Cellar.......left the Cellar at 03:15

.......Paul Landis*....1 scotch at the Press Club...2 "fruit drinks" at the Cellar... left the Cellar at 05:00.

* in the car

When did they have to be ready in the morning? (Most restrained and civilised drinking patterns. I wonder how big the glasses were?

Security pulled. Staff dozy?

We know the arrival for duty of the agents who were assigned to the follow up car.

According to Agent Emory Roberts, who was in charge of the 8 am to 4 pm shift of the

agents on November 22, 1963, the following agents arrived for duty at the Texas Hotel

at the following times: (We will limit this information to the four agents who violated

SS regulations pertaining to consuming alcoholic beverages while on duty, and were

assigned to the follow up car on November 22, 1963)

Glenn Bennett and John Ready reported for duty at 7:20 a.m.

Clint Hill and Paul Landis reported for duty at approximately 8:05 a.m. (Source: Statement

of Emory P. Roberts, Assistant to the Special Agent in Charge, White House Detail, U.S.

Secret Service, April 28, 1964 CE 1020).

Bill C

[John Dolva]

We know the arrival for duty of the agents who were assigned to the follow up car.

According to Agent Emory Roberts, who was in charge of the 8 am to 4 pm shift of the

agents on November 22, 1963, the following agents arrived for duty at the Texas Hotel

at the following times: (We will limit this information to the four agents who violated

SS regulations pertaining to consuming alcoholic beverages while on duty, and were

assigned to the follow up car on November 22, 1963)

Glenn Bennett and John Ready reported for duty at 7:20 a.m.

Clint Hill and Paul Landis reported for duty at approximately 8:05 a.m. (Source: Statement

of Emory P. Roberts, Assistant to the Special Agent in Charge, White House Detail, U.S.

Secret Service, April 28, 1964 CE 1020).

Bill C

What brought them all to the 'Cellar Club'? I don't know press club format in Dallas '63. But here in Australia, my experience is that entertainment wise it's not a 'let down your hair and lets pick up some nurses (or whatever)' kind of place. More like a 'let's get tanked, chat, make contancts, gather', before the main event which for these non Dallasites (?) was a visit to the Cellar. Who suggeted to them that was the place to be? Whatever, the assassins, whoever they were, could perhaps sleep restfully in the knowledge that the SS were not. Which brings a question of how did this vary from other nights in other cities

(And the rest of the world could rest easy knowing that these guys were protecting the guy who had the finger on 'the button'. Lucky (tounge in cheek) there were no global crisis' to worry about. I wonder if they had a standby of sober, well rested knights in reserve, just in case. Could this sort of thing (laxness) be related to the 'tone' of an administration?)

(no worries Daniel, no apologies needed, but thank you. I meant no offence as I'm sure you did not as well)

[Ron Ecker]

What brought them all to the 'Cellar Club'? I don't know press club format in Dallas '63.

Mike Cochran of the Associated Press is quoted as follows in President Kennedy Has Been Shot (p. 7):

In 1963, Texas didn't have liquor by the drink and we also had a midnight curfew to buy beer at the (Fort Worth) Press Club, but we kept it open into the wee hours, at which time Bob Schieffer and some other local guys guided the Secret Service and everybody over to The Cellar.

Schieffer, who was the night police reporter for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, is also quoted, but says the SS showed up at the Cellar, he didn't guide them (maybe he told them how to get there?) (p. 6):

Late in the evening, there was this beer joint, basically, only it didn't sell beer, called The Cellar, in Fort Worth. It was a coffee-house, an after-hours place. The thing that set it apart was the waitresses wore underwear. That was their business attire, as it were, and people sat around on cushions on the floor. All the visiting reporters wanted to go down there, and Phil Record, who was the night city editor of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, and I were appointed to be their guides. While there, we were joined by some Secret Service agents from Kennedy's detail. They were off-duty (sic), but they wanted to go. They weren't drinking. But we managed to see the dawn come up and see the sun rise in Fort Worth before we left the place.

I guess that explains the fruit drinks. They weren't there to drink but to look at the underwear.

[Lee Forman]

I guess that explains the fruit drinks. They weren't there to drink but to look at the underwear.

Smells like a bridge for sale to me.

- lee

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:WJJXGS...us&ct=clnk&cd=2

From 1959 through 1970, The Cellar in downtown Fort Worth was an all-night jazz coffeehouse and blues club featuring music until 6 a.m. nightly -- or maybe daily -- fueled by complimentary drinks that were half Everclear grain alcohol served by college-age women in black bikinis or lingerie. Dallas and Houston also had Cellars.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...displayonly=EXC

Kennedy had come to Texas to heal some quarrels in the Democratic Party and to raise money for the '64 campaign, and the tour had started in Houston and San Antonio. After a Thursday-night speech in Houston, he had flown to Fort Worth to spend the night and attend an early-morning Chamber of Commerce breakfast before taking a ten-minute flight to Dallas for a parade and luncheon speech. The tour was to end with a huge fund-raising dinner in Austin. Governor John Connally had convinced Kennedy that only in Austin, the state capital, could you count on getting people from the rest of the state to come to a fund-raiser. People from Houston wouldn't go to San Antonio for a fund-raiser, Connally told Kennedy, and people from Fort Worth damn sure wouldn't go to Dallas. He was right about that. When Amon Carter was running the Star-Telegram, he made a point of taking a sack lunch when he had business in Dallas, claiming he did not care for the city's restaurants. Dallas repaid the courtesy when Fort Worth built an airport between the two cities and named it Carter Field. Dallas residents declined to use the airport, in large part because of the name, and the airport eventually failed. (There was and is such a rivalry between the two cities that the only project they ever cooperated on is the current airport. Planners were careful not to name it after anyone from either city.) The visiting reporters had no interest in our airports, of course. What they did want to know about was a local after-hours joint called the Cellar. The Cellar had no liquor license, but if you were a friend of the owner, a former stock-car racer named Pat Kirkwood, the drink of choice, Kool-Aid spiked with grain alcohol, was on the house. It was not the drinks, but the fact that the Cellar's waitresses wore only underwear, that had given the place some notoriety and the notoriety had apparently spread as far as Washington. Hippies and free love would descend on San Francisco, and Kirkwood always claimed his place was a forerunner of what was to come. Whatever the case, Phil Record, the Star-Telegram night city editor, and I were appointed to guide our visitors to it.

[Ron Ecker]

The Cellar had no liquor license, but if you were a friend of the owner, a former stock-car racer named Pat Kirkwood, the drink of choice, Kool-Aid spiked with grain alcohol, was on the house.

Like I said, I guess that explains the fruit drinks.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Ron Ecker

[Bill Cheslock]

I guess that explains the fruit drinks. They weren't there to drink but to look at the underwear.

Smells like a bridge for sale to me.

- lee

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:WJJXGS...us&ct=clnk&cd=2

From 1959 through 1970, The Cellar in downtown Fort Worth was an all-night jazz coffeehouse and blues club featuring music until 6 a.m. nightly -- or maybe daily -- fueled by complimentary drinks that were half Everclear grain alcohol served by college-age women in black bikinis or lingerie. Dallas and Houston also had Cellars.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...displayonly=EXC

Kennedy had come to Texas to heal some quarrels in the Democratic Party and to raise money for the '64 campaign, and the tour had started in Houston and San Antonio. After a Thursday-night speech in Houston, he had flown to Fort Worth to spend the night and attend an early-morning Chamber of Commerce breakfast before taking a ten-minute flight to Dallas for a parade and luncheon speech. The tour was to end with a huge fund-raising dinner in Austin. Governor John Connally had convinced Kennedy that only in Austin, the state capital, could you count on getting people from the rest of the state to come to a fund-raiser. People from Houston wouldn't go to San Antonio for a fund-raiser, Connally told Kennedy, and people from Fort Worth damn sure wouldn't go to Dallas. He was right about that. When Amon Carter was running the Star-Telegram, he made a point of taking a sack lunch when he had business in Dallas, claiming he did not care for the city's restaurants. Dallas repaid the courtesy when Fort Worth built an airport between the two cities and named it Carter Field. Dallas residents declined to use the airport, in large part because of the name, and the airport eventually failed. (There was and is such a rivalry between the two cities that the only project they ever cooperated on is the current airport. Planners were careful not to name it after anyone from either city.) The visiting reporters had no interest in our airports, of course. What they did want to know about was a local after-hours joint called the Cellar. The Cellar had no liquor license, but if you were a friend of the owner, a former stock-car racer named Pat Kirkwood, the drink of choice, Kool-Aid spiked with grain alcohol, was on the house. It was not the drinks, but the fact that the Cellar's waitresses wore only underwear, that had given the place some notoriety and the notoriety had apparently spread as far as Washington. Hippies and free love would descend on San Francisco, and Kirkwood always claimed his place was a forerunner of what was to come. Whatever the case, Phil Record, the Star-Telegram night city editor, and I were appointed to guide our visitors to it.

We might understand the Cellar and its owner, Pat Kirkwood, better if we read part of Karen

"Little Lynn" Carlin's Warren Commission testimony. As we know, Ms. Carlin worked for Jack

Ruby at the Carousel Club as a stripper, and also knew Kirkwood. The following exchange during

her WC testimony is quite revealing:

Mr. Hubert: "Who is Pat Kirkwood?"

Ms. Carlin: "He owns the Cellar and I had already been threatened by him. My life had been

threatened by him."

Hubert: "Why did he do that?"

Carlin: "Well, it was--he had some publicity down there--television and cameras and so on, and we

never got along too well because I told the police, the vice squad about him and identified some

policemen that were being paid off by him and everything, and of course, he had so many friends

he got out of it real easy, but then he hated me for what I had done."

Hubert: "Was that before the President was shot?"

Carlin: "Yes, that was before, and so after the President was shot, he found out what was going

on and he called me on the telephone, and he says, 'I want you down here in about 20 minutes,'

and I said, 'Kirkwood, I don't want to have anything to do with you or your plans, just leave me

alone.' "

Hubert: "That was after Oswald was shot?"

Carlin: "yes, after I went to court that first time, the bond hearing, I believe."

Hubert: "Yes."

Carlin: "After I went to court, he says, 'I want you down here' and I said, 'Well, I'm not coming

down.' He called me back in about 20 minutes and he said, 'Why aren't you down here?' He said,

'I'll send a cab up after you.' " (WCH XV, p 660)

Now, what would a stripper working for Jack Ruby be doing involved with an owner

of a "coffee house" that served coffee and fruit drinks?? And, why did Mr. Kirkwood have to

bribe police officers, if the strongest drink he served was fruit and java?? There's alot more

to Pat Kirkwood than we know.

Bill C

[John Simkin]

This is what William Manchester had to say about the response of the SS agents in Dallas in The Death of a President (1967):

There was a sudden, sharp, shattering sound. Various individuals heard it differently. Jacqueline Kennedy believed it was a motorcycle noise. Curry was under the impression that someone had fired a railroad torpedo. Ronald Fischer and Bob Edwards, assuming that it was a backfire, chuckled. Most of the hunters in the motorcade - Sorrels, Connally, Yarborough, Gonzalez, Albert Thomas - instinctively identified it as rifle fire.

But the White House Detail was confused. Their experience in outdoor shooting was limited to two qualification courses a year on a range in Washington's National Arboretum. There they heard only their own weapons, and they were unaccustomed to the bizarre effects that are created when small-arms fire echoes among unfamiliar structures - in this case, the buildings of Dealey Plaza. Emory Roberts recognized Oswald's first shot as a shot. So did Youngblood, whose alert response may have saved Lyndon Johnson's life. They were exceptions. The men in Halfback were bewildered. They glanced around uncertainly. Lawson, Kellerman, Greer, Ready, and Hill all thought that a firecracker had been exploded. The fact that this was a common reaction is no mitigation. It was the responsibility of James J. Rowley, Chief of the Secret Service, and Jerry Behn, Head of the White House Detail, to see that their agents were trained to cope with precisely this sort of emergency. They were supposed to be picked men, honed to a matchless edge. It was comprehensible that Roy Truly should dismiss the first shot as a cherry bomb. It was even fathomable that Patrolman James M. Chaney, mounted on a motorcycle six feet from the Lincoln, should think that another machine had backfired. Chaney was an ordinary policeman, not a Presidential bodyguard. The protection of the Chief Executive, on the other hand, was the profession of Secret Service agents. They existed for no other reason. Apart from Clint Hill - and perhaps Jack Ready, who started to step off the right running board and was ordered back by Roberts - the behaviour of the men in the follow-up car was unresponsive. Even more tragic was the perplexity of Roy Kellerman, the ranking agent in Dallas, and Bill Greer, who was under Kellerman's supervision. Kellerman and Greer were in a position to take swift evasive action, and for five terrible seconds they were immobilized.

Hill, though mistaken about the noise, saw Kennedy lurch forward and grab his neck. That was enough for Clint. With his extraordinary reflexes he leaped into Elm Street and charged forward.

[Francesca Akhtar]

The Cellar had no liquor license, but if you were a friend of the owner, a former stock-car racer named Pat Kirkwood, the drink of choice, Kool-Aid spiked with grain alcohol, was on the house.

I'm guessing this is an American thing, but what exactly is Kool-Aid? It is some kind of fizzy drink?

I haven't heard the term before.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Francesca,

Yes, Peter Sellers is most definitely in that movie---playing 3 different characters (the US President, a British RAF Commadner locked up with General Ripper, and Dr. Strangelove himself). It's hilarious, for a "dark" movie about the potential for nuclear holocaust. It's also very relevant to the issues of JFK's presidency (it was released in 1964), giving an excellent idea of what 24-hour "strategic nuclear 'readiness'" entailed at the time as well as being "inspired" by things like the Cuban Missile Crisis, Presidential authority vis-a-vis high-level military prerogatives, and extreme right-wing paranoid thinking. You must see it, and you must see it now Take care, Dan

Gen "Jack D Ripper" is reportedly based on Gen Curtis LeMay. the guy who wanted JFK to launch a pre-emtive nuclear strike on the USSR.FWIW.

[Ron Ecker]

Gen "Jack D Ripper" is reportedly based on Gen Curtis LeMay. the guy who wanted JFK to launch a pre-emtive nuclear strike on the USSR.FWIW.

But I don't remember LeMay ever saying anything about "our precious bodily fluids."

[John Simkin]

Clinton Hill was interviewed by Arlen Specter and Thomas H. Boggs on behalf of the Warren Commission (9th March, 1964).

Arlen Specter: All right. What was the condition of the crowd as the motorcade made a right-hand turn off of Main Street onto Houston?

Clinton Hill: The crowd was very large on Main Street, and it was thinning down considerably when we reached the end of it, and turned right on Houston Street. Noticeably on my side of the car, which was the left-hand side of the street.

Arlen Specter: And what is your best estimate as to the speed of the President's car at the time it made the right-and turn onto Houston Street?

Clinton Hill: In the curve?

Arlen Specter: The speed - in the curve itself; yes.

Clinton Hill: We were running generally 12 to 15 miles per hour. I would say that in the curve we perhaps slowed to maybe 10 miles per hour.

Arlen Specter: And how far behind the President's car was the Presidential follow-up car as the turn was made onto Houston Street?

Clinton Hill: Four to five feet, at the most.

Arlen Specter: I show you a photograph of a building which has already been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 348, and ask you if at this time you can identify what that building is.

Clinton Hill: I believe I can, sir; yes.

Arlen Specter: And what building is it?

Clinton Hill: It is the Texas School Book Depository.

Arlen Specter: Now, does that building appear on the Commission Exhibit No. 354?

Clinton Hill: Yes, sir; it does.

Arlen Specter: Did you have any occasion to notice the Texas School Book Depository Building as you proceeded in a generally northerly direction on Houston Street?

Clinton Hill: Yes, sir. It was immediately in front of us and to our left.

Arlen Specter: Did you notice anything unusual about it?

Clinton Hill: Nothing more unusual than any other building along the way.

Arlen Specter: What is your general practice, if any, in observing such buildings along the route of a Presidential motorcade?

Clinton Hill: We scan the buildings and look specifically for open windows, for people hanging out, and there had been, on almost every building along the way, people hanging out, windows open.

Arlen Specter: And did you observe, as you recollect at this moment, any open windows in the Texas School Depository Building?

Clinton Hill: Yes, sir; there were.

Arlen Specter: Are you able to recollect specifically which windows were open at this time?

Clinton Hill: No, sir; I cannot.

Arlen Specter: What was the condition of the crowd along the streets, if any, along Elm Street, in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Clinton Hill: On the left-hand side of the street, which is the side I was on, the crowd was very thin. And it was a general park area. There were people scattered throughout the entire park.

Arlen Specter: Now, what is your best estimate of the speed of the President's automobile as it turned left off of Houston onto Elm Street?

Clinton Hill: We were running still 12 to 15 miles per hour, but in the curve I believe we slowed down maybe to 10, maybe to 9.

Arlen Specter: How far back of the President's automobile was the Presidential car when the President's follow-up car had just straightened out on Elm Street?

Clinton Hill: Approximately 5 feet.

Arlen Specter: Now, as the motorcade proceeded at that point, tell us what happened.

Clinton Hill: Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left.

Arlen Specter: Why don't you just proceed, in narrative form, to tell us?

Thomas Boggs: This was the first shot?

Clinton Hill: This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object - it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car. Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy - the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there...

Arlen Specter: What is your best estimate of the speed of the President's car at the precise time of the first shot, Mr. Hill?

Clinton Hill: We were running between 12 to 15 miles per hour, but no faster than 15 miles per hour...

Arlen Specter: Now, what is your best estimate on the timespan between the first firecracker-type noise you heard and the second shot which you have described?

Clinton Hill: Approximately 5 seconds...

Arlen Specter: Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything as you were proceeding from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Clinton Hill: At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off." Between there and the hospital she just said, "Jack, Jack, what have they done to you," and sobbed.

Arlen Specter: What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

Clinton Hill: The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Arlen Specter: Did you have any opportunity to observe the front part of his body, to see whether there was any tear or rip in the clothing on the front?

Clinton Hill: I saw him lying there in the back of the car, when I was immediately above him. I cannot recall noticing anything that was ripped in the forward portion of his body.

Arlen Specter: What action, if any, did you take to shield the President's body?

Clinton Hill: I kept myself above the President and Mrs. Kennedy on the trip to Parkland...

Arlen Specter: I believe you testified as to the impression you had as to the source of the first shot. To be sure that the record is complete, what was your reaction as to where the first shot came from, Mr. Hill?

Clinton Hill: Right rear.

Arlen Specter: And did you have a reaction or impression as to the source of point of origin of the second shot that you described?

Clinton Hill: It was right, but I cannot say for sure that it was rear, because when I mounted the car it was - it had a different sound, first of all, than the first sound that I heard. The second one had almost a double sound - as though you were standing against something metal and firing into it, and you hear both the sound of a gun going off and the sound of the cartridge hitting the metal place, which could have been caused probably by the hard surface of the head. But I am not sure that that is what caused it.

[Ron Ecker]

I'm guessing this is an American thing, but what exactly is Kool-Aid? It is some kind of fizzy drink?

I haven't heard the term before.

Francesca,

Kool-Aid is nothing but water with powdered flavor stirred in it. The powder is bought in packages. Kids like the stuff. I've never met a grownup that drinks it, though maybe there are closet Kool-Aid drinkers.

Ron