hobos and Hunt's covert (red border) file

[Steve Thomas]

I am not saying that E. Howard Hunt was one of the three tramps. I don't know that. But I ran across an interesting little tidbit today. I was reading through some of Russ Holmes' work files and ran across a hand written note - maybe from someone named Tom Brown - concerning some enclosures in an envelope.

It says, "Smaller envelope holding 24 badge photos & 6 negatives of Dallas hobo pictures. Copies of blow-ups are in Hunt's covert (red border) file."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...983&relPageId=2

I wonder why someone in the CIA would put blowups of the Dallas hobo pictures in Hunt's covert file?

Steve Thomas

[Robin Unger]

I am not saying that E. Howard Hunt was one of the three tramps. I don't know that. But I ran across an interesting little tidbit today. I was reading through some of Russ Holmes' work files and ran across a hand written note - maybe from someone named Tom Brown - concerning some enclosures in an envelope.

It says, "Smaller envelope holding 24 badge photos & 6 negatives of Dallas hobo pictures. Copies of blow-ups are in Hunt's covert (red border) file."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...983&relPageId=2

I wonder why someone in the CIA would put blowups of the Dallas hobo pictures in Hunt's covert file?

Steve Thomas

Hi Steve.

I just added two Large " Hobo " Tramp pics to my main gallery.

[Robert Howard]

While I have always been interested in the 'Three Tramps' controversy, I have never personally researched it. I want to ask about A.J. Weberman's webpage where he postulates the idea that there were in actuality two different sets of tramps.

My understanding of his viewpoint is that there 'appears' to be a discrepancy between the various Dallas Police Department officer's recollection of the event, (and since the recollections are themselves 'open to question, given the time elapsed since the event) which, make the whole topic 'problematic' insofar as coming to any clear-cut unanimity regarding the topic.

So, my question is simply; In the opinions of those who have posted on this thread and members of the Forum in general, (irregardless of Gerry P. Hemming's assertions) - Are there any others who believe A.J. Weberman's suggestion that there were two sets of tramps?

Here is the URL for the topic on Weberman's site.

http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules/nodule17.htm#arrests

[Jack White]

Yes. There were two sets of 3 tramps.

Set 1...the three men led by police through Dealey Plaza

and photographed by 3 press photographers around 2 p.m.

These are the "official" tramps.

Set 2...many years later when the Dallas Police files were

declassified, Jim Marrs was first to examine them (somewhat

later they were examined by many others, including some

reporters) and second set of 3 tramps was arrested according

to records. Their names were Gedney, Doyle and Abrams.

I call them the Bogus Tramps. Doyle claimed to be Frenchy,

and Abrams and Gedney claimed to be the other two. None

of the three looks anything the "official" tramps either. But

many gullible people accepted the claim.

Jack

[Steve Thomas]

Robert,

So, my question is simply; In the opinions of those who have posted on this thread and members of the Forum in general, (irregardless of Gerry P. Hemming's assertions) - Are there any others who believe A.J. Weberman's suggestion that there were two sets of tramps?

I believe the tramps were, in fact, arrested twice. Once by the Dallas County Sheriff's Deputies and again by the Dallas City Police Department.

As Jack indicated, the shadows on the wall during the famous set of photos show the tramp pictures were taken around 2:00 PM.

Lee Bowers in his testimony before the Warren Commission, vol VI, p. 288:

Between 50 and a hundred policemen came up the slope within 5 minutes. “That’s right. Sealed off the area and I held off the trains until they could be examined, and there were some transients taken on at least one train.”

Marvin Wise was interviewed by the House Select Committee on Assassinations on November 14, 1977 at 9:00AM at Dallas Police Headquarters. HSCA 180-10112 10156. Wise was a Dallas Policeman on November 22, 1963 and assigned to District #71 Radio Patrol in south Dallas.

He arrived and parked near the railroad tracks. He went to the TSBD and was assigned to the west side of the TSBD.

Wise stated that the men acted scared and he could smell wine on the breath of one of them. Wise took the men over to the Sheriff’s Office, and while waiting to turn them over, asked the men for identification.

“He turned the men over to the Sheriff’s Office (Deputy name unknown), and went back to his radio”. He heard over the police radio that a policeman had been shot, and a little later heard that it was J.D. Tippit”.

Notice the timing. The tramps have been picked up and are in the station when Wise hears about Tippit. (Tippit was shot at approximately 1:16pm)

William Earl Chambers was interviewed on 3/3/92 by SA Gary Gerszewski of the FBI and Lieutenant Kenneth Lybrand, City of Dallas Police Department.

William Chambers worked for the City of Dallas Police Department from October, 1954 until January, 1992. In approximately 1959, or 1969, he as assigned as a Detective in the Forgery Division.

“As they drove back towards the main police station, the police dispatcher was providing information regarding the shooting of Officer J.D. Tippett”

(Tippett was shot around 1:16PM)

After watching the individuals for a period of time, Captain Jones approached Chambers and told him, “take them into my office”. Once inside Captain Jones office, Captain Jones told Chambers, “find out which one shot the President”.

Chambers questioned them together and found their answers confusing and inconsistent.

“their stories as to where they came from and where they were headed differed from individual to individual.

“When questioned regarding the circumstances of their arrest, the three individuals indicated that they were on a freight car sleeping when they were wakened by officers with different colored uniforms than the ones worn by the officers who drove them down to the station.

Question: Sleeping? what time was this? They got out of the Salvation Army and on the way to the freight yards heard that the President had been shot. It couldn’t have been more than an hour lapsed maybe. Different colored uniforms? Driven down to the station?

“They were briefly questioned by those officers who then told them that they better leave town. The three then boarded another boxcar and were shortly thereafter arrested by the City of Dallas Police Department”.

(They were arrested twice. The first time, they were driven down to the station).

“Chambers believes that the Officers who first interviewed the hobos were members of the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department, who at that time had uniforms of a different color than that of the City of Dallas Police Department. The hobos were then brought down to the station.

Steve Thomas

[Thomas Graves]

[...] Chambers questioned them together and found their answers confusing and inconsistent. [...]

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I wonder why Chambers questioned them together. I would have interrogated them separately. No biggie, as their answers were still "confusing and inconsistent."

FWIW, Thomas

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Edited May 9, 2006 by Thomas Graves