William Kelly Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) In his HSCA testimony, Jim Braden said that after being told by Sheriff Deputy Lummie Lewis that "We have to check everything out," they walked out of the Dal-Tex building into a chaotic scene, where policeman had surrounded the TSBD. Someone walked out of the TSBD holding a rifle high by "a string or a sling." I recall seeing a photo of this scene. Does anyone have it so it can be posted. Tom posted two links to Lancer site showing what looks like MC. Can we identify the photographer and are there any other photos in this sequence, which could show Braden and Lewis in the background? Is this the Mannlicher Carcarno or another rifle? I recall another rifle being found on the roof and a similar photo of someone holding it in a similar fashion. Does anyone else have info on this other rifle? Also, can we put an exact time on this scene? BK Edited July 11, 2006 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 From On The Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison (p.116) "....A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policeman reached the ground, a high-ranking officer hald the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin's Rifle." When I saw the film, I noticed that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights." Is this the man holding the rifle by a string or sling that Braden saw? Does anyone have a still photo of this rifle? Is the Dallas Cinema Associates film available? BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 From On The Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison (p.116) "....A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policeman reached the ground, a high-ranking officer hald the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin's Rifle." When I saw the film, I noticed that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights." Is this the man holding the rifle by a string or sling that Braden saw? Does anyone have a still photo of this rifle? Is the Dallas Cinema Associates film available? BK The Dallas Cinema Associates Film is featured on the Robert Groden DVD entitled 'JFK - Assassination Films/The Case for Conspiracy.' Don't leave home without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) From On The Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison (p.116) "....A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policeman reached the ground, a high-ranking officer hald the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin's Rifle." When I saw the film, I noticed that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights." Is this the man holding the rifle by a string or sling that Braden saw? Does anyone have a still photo of this rifle? Is the Dallas Cinema Associates film available? BK The Dallas Cinema Associates Film is featured on the Robert Groden DVD entitled 'JFK - Assassination Films/The Case for Conspiracy.' Don't leave home without it. From the film footage. john w Edited July 16, 2006 by John Woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 From On The Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison (p.116) "....A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policeman reached the ground, a high-ranking officer hald the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin's Rifle." When I saw the film, I noticed that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights." Is this the man holding the rifle by a string or sling that Braden saw? Does anyone have a still photo of this rifle? Is the Dallas Cinema Associates film available? The film footage was exposed by John Martin. His footage begins with the presidential limousine on Houstn Street, from Main Street. His footage includes the umbrella man along with the Cuban. Ending footage of police offices with shotguns and police cars with the Dal Tex building in the background. john w BK The Dallas Cinema Associates Film is featured on the Robert Groden DVD entitled 'JFK - Assassination Films/The Case for Conspiracy.' Don't leave home without it. From the film footage. john w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 From On The Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison (p.116) "....A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policeman reached the ground, a high-ranking officer hald the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin's Rifle." When I saw the film, I noticed that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights." Is this the man holding the rifle by a string or sling that Braden saw? Does anyone have a still photo of this rifle? Is the Dallas Cinema Associates film available? The film footage was exposed by John Martin. His footage begins with the presidential limousine on Houstn Street, from Main Street. His footage includes the umbrella man along with the Cuban. Ending footage of police offices with shotguns and police cars with the Dal Tex building in the background. john w BK The Dallas Cinema Associates Film is featured on the Robert Groden DVD entitled 'JFK - Assassination Films/The Case for Conspiracy.' Don't leave home without it. From the film footage. john w [/quot Thanks to Gary Mack for his correction of this film footage filmed by Mentesasa. john w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Thanks to Gary Mack for his correction of this film footage filmed by Mentesasa. john w EXCUSE ME JOHN, BUT WHAT ARE YOU THANKING GARY MACK FOR AGAIN. WHAT'S THE CORRECTION AGAIN? AND WHOSE "MENTESASA"? I KNOW I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE. BILL KELLY BKJFK3@YAHOO.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Thanks to Gary Mack for his correction of this film footage filmed by Mentesasa. john w EXCUSE ME JOHN, BUT WHAT ARE YOU THANKING GARY MACK FOR AGAIN. WHAT'S THE CORRECTION AGAIN? AND WHOSE "MENTESASA"? I KNOW I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE. BILL KELLY BKJFK3@YAHOO.COM Hi BK Ernest Charles Menesana whose edited film footage was incorporated into President Kennedy's Final Hour under the Dallas Cinema Associated, Inc. Mentesas was at the intersection of Turtle Creek Road and Cedar Springs Road when he filmed about ten feet of 8 mm footage of the motorcade using a Wollensak Movie Camera, with a 1.9 lens using Kodachrome II film at approximately 12:10 to 12:12 P.M. Several more feet of expousres following the assassination of the freight yard, the arrest of the tramps and the TSBD john w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Thanks to Gary Mack for his correction of this film footage filmed by Mentesasa. john w EXCUSE ME JOHN, BUT WHAT ARE YOU THANKING GARY MACK FOR AGAIN. WHAT'S THE CORRECTION AGAIN? AND WHOSE "MENTESASA"? I KNOW I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE. BILL KELLY BKJFK3@YAHOO.COM Bill, John Martin, Charles Mentesana and Martin Gewertz all took film for their own little enerprise known as Dallas Cinema Associates. It was Mentesana who took the film outside the TSBD post-ambush. While we're talking about rifles being carried out of that buiding, what about the photo showing a large paper bag being carried out upside down with some unseen long object holding it upright... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The weapon in the above frame has always looked like to me, the under side of a shotgun. Can never be sure though as the picture/frame isnt clear, but what I see is the "pump"/"forearm" of a shotgun. Just my opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yes, Gary has informed me that the Dallas Film Associates frames show a Dallas policeman with a shotgun. And I ask my question again, I am trying to determine if Jim Braden and Dept. LL, as they exited the Dal-Tex Building, witnessed the removal of the Manlicher Carcano or the shotgun scene from the DFA and at what time this occurred? Braden said there was a commotion at the TSBD and someone came out holding a rifle high by a sling or string, and the two photo ops of this type of scene, whichever one is what they saw - should show Braden and LL in the background of the photo/film sequence. My question cannot be debunked, because it is either one scene or the other, and both were apparently well documented in photos. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Bill, I started a thread on this subject a few months ago,[Jan. 17, 2006] entitled 'The Dallas Cinema Associates Film - Footage of a Rifle without the scope.' Please see the link. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ic=5866&hl= PS: As you will see the issue on this thread was strictly in relation to the rifle, a Remington 870 shotgun, I believe. I cannot offer any insights as to whether Braden saw the removal of the Mannlicher-Carcano, or any other weapons of record for that matter. Robert Edited July 17, 2006 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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