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A New Angle on Murder


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'Peter Lemkin' wrote:

Ashton, maybe someone in the Dallas area or who-knows-where has GPS data for DP and area if that can be input easily [?] or survey coordinates maybe [and may WELL NOT BE] obtainable from the city of Dallas. The only 'problem' I see if you start passing your GREAT work around is each person will add a bit here a building detail or person there....and

1) There needs to be a 'reference' composite version - I think you should be in charge of that.

2) There needs to be some kind of quality control over changes/additions by others.

3) As with various versions of MS-Word documents, I hope it can keep track of individual's changes by name....likely not.

This, if done completely and eventually on a full CAD program with all the bells and whistles - even allowing time changes and VR glasses etc. might be both a GREAT research aide but also of interest to the public via a documentary evenually.

********************

Peter,

I believe the USGS has latter day topos for the DP area... getting accurate DP topo data circa. 1963, is another animal -- perhaps Tom Purvis may be able to point Ashton in the right direction. I've requested the same info over the years. IF its out there, nobody is giving it up...

Based on DMyers website, he didn't use elevations from USGS topos maps when he created his animated [Zapruder film based] cartoon for the ABC documentary...

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/models.htm

DHealy

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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Ashton,

Nice work and thanks for the data on software used.

How did I produce those images? Send me a private mail and I'll tell you.

The programme I use allows you to view a 360 degree

panoramic view of Dealey Plaza from anywhere.

Meanwhile here are two more.

Regards and keep up great work!

EBC

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
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Guest Eugene B. Connolly
Eugene, Those are very interesting, and I note that the two posts you made seem to have different visual characteristics...but I assume from the same program...?

The 'programme' allows me to capture images with the properties and within the parameters mentioned above.

The captured images are then enhanced using Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro X with the addition of soft focus, sharpening, edge reduction etc., etc.

EBC

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
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Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Eugene, Those are very interesting, and I note that the two posts you made seem to have different visual characteristics...but I assume from the same program...?

The 'programme' allows me to capture images with the properties and within the parameters mentioned above.

The captured images are then enhanced using Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro X with the addition of soft focus, sharpening, edge reduction etc., etc.

Below is the last image I shall post on this topic.

November 22nd 1963 as it might have been. President Kennedy Jackie and the others slowly and safely

entering the Triple Underpass and onward to the Trade Mart and on to history.......

EBC

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
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If any of you have large files you'd like to share such as 3d figures you've done in your animations, you can use

http://www.uploading.com/

to share files up to 150 MB in size.

I was in contact with Dale Meyers last year concerning inaccuracies in his animation but we never went past the point of just discussing some observations I had. He of course is a lone gunman "theorist."

It was discussed earlier in this thread that there are better programs for 4D animations than Sketchup, and they are expensive. I'd be curious what program may be better to use. Of course what I'm looking for is the best bang for the buck to where a 3d presentation of the whole trip down Elm Street could be shown.

Thanks for any help

Bill

Edited by Bill Charleston
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If any of you have large files you'd like to share such as 3d figures you've done in your animations, you can use

http://www.uploading.com/

to share files up to 150 MB in size.

I was in contact with Dale Meyers last year concerning inaccuracies in his animation but we never went past the point of just discussing some observations I had. He of course is a lone gunman "theorist."

It was discussed earlier in this thread that there are better programs for 4D animations than Sketchup, and they are expensive. I'd be curious what program may be better to use. Of course what I'm looking for is the best bang for the buck to where a 3d presentation of the whole trip down Elm Street could be shown.

Thanks for any help

Bill

Same as Myers uses -- Lightwave! Or there's 3D Studio, not an easy upside learning curve, same for Maya... you can google them

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If any of you have large files you'd like to share such as 3d figures you've done in your animations, you can use

http://www.uploading.com/

to share files up to 150 MB in size.

I was in contact with Dale Meyers last year concerning inaccuracies in his animation but we never went past the point of just discussing some observations I had. He of course is a lone gunman "theorist."

It was discussed earlier in this thread that there are better programs for 4D animations than Sketchup, and they are expensive. I'd be curious what program may be better to use. Of course what I'm looking for is the best bang for the buck to where a 3d presentation of the whole trip down Elm Street could be shown.

Thanks for any help

Bill

Same as Myers uses -- Lightwave! Or there's 3D Studio, not an easy upside learning curve, same for Maya... you can google them

All interesting graphics, but not as relevant as "real" photos (assuming we have some

real photos). Same trouble as with Myers' work...GIGO...garbage in, garbage out.

Jack

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Autodesk, the makers of both 3ds Studio Max and Maya have some options for those interested in pursuing higher-end animation software. They have a 30-day free trial of 3ds Studio Max (although if one is unfamiliar with the parlance of animation, this might not even be enough time to get over the learning curve).

Another possibility is the "Personal Learning Edition" of Maya. It is designed for people who want to learn about animation, etc. It apparently uses a special file format and watermarks its animations. However, for evaluation and learning, this might be a decent way to dip one's foot into the higher-end animation tools.

Be advised, though, that these tools are not for the faint of heart (nor for the faint of processor computers out there!). They are exceedingly powerful, but they are complicated. You do need a reasonably up-to-date video card to take full advantage of some features, too.

Lastly, Jack's GIGO point is well taken. From my understanding, Myers animated what he was asked to animate. Warner Brothers animated any number of things that violated the laws of physics, but this no more invalidates physics than Myers' animation proves the SBT...

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Autodesk, the makers of both 3ds Studio Max and Maya have some options for those interested in pursuing higher-end animation software. They have a 30-day free trial of 3ds Studio Max (although if one is unfamiliar with the parlance of animation, this might not even be enough time to get over the learning curve).

Another possibility is the "Personal Learning Edition" of Maya. It is designed for people who want to learn about animation, etc. It apparently uses a special file format and watermarks its animations. However, for evaluation and learning, this might be a decent way to dip one's foot into the higher-end animation tools.

Be advised, though, that these tools are not for the faint of heart (nor for the faint of processor computers out there!). They are exceedingly powerful, but they are complicated. You do need a reasonably up-to-date video card to take full advantage of some features, too.

Lastly, Jack's GIGO point is well taken. From my understanding, Myers animated what he was asked to animate. Warner Brothers animated any number of things that violated the laws of physics, but this no more invalidates physics than Myers' animation proves the SBT...

AMEN, Frank.... ALL points

David Healy

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All interesting graphics, but not as relevant as "real" photos (assuming we have some

real photos). Same trouble as with Myers' work...GIGO...garbage in, garbage out.

Jack

I am not an expert on this, and don't know the names of the programs to which I allude, but I am almost sure there are 'cad' type programs into which one can actually put photos and even film...so if one were to 'look' around in those areas in which there data from a real photo - it would show that...and elsewhere the 'cad' image....such a program fillled with all the photos and films and 4D capable with VR glasses would be an immense research tool!....a HUGE project that of course the 'government' should do...but never would/will.

I am not into animated graphics, but I think you are correct. Such a program

would be similar to early MORPH programs which interpolates IN-BETWEENS

between two photos, predicting what/where images would be in between known

photos. This might be a helpful tool.

But then, if all the photos were tampered with............aw, forget it.

Jack

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I just hate being late for the ball, but over the past week I have had a moving experience. (If "three moves is as good as a fire," I believe I have perfected ways to cut that down to one. I'm not sure that it's marketable, though.)

Forgive this cluster-reply, but I simply don't have time to overcome the "one visit, one reply" limitation at the moment.

To Eugene B. Connolly:

Well, all the images that you've posted just beats the pants this thing I've cobbled together in terms not only of detail but of sheer beauty. Very admirable work. As soon as I don't have to climb over boxes to get to my computer and have a few minutes to take a deep breath, I will send you that PM and hopefully we can "talk shop" to whatever degree you're willing. I'm interested in continuing to develop and refine the model over time, and if you can give me any tips or pointers to the relationships of the DP features (natural and man-made) that would be great. If not, I'd just enjoy corresponding.

Re: General Discussion of 3D Programs

I picked Sketchup to start this mainly because I knew that with it I could block out a fairly accurate repesentation of DP initially, fairly quickly (meaning weeks of part-time instead of months full-time) to serve my own primary purpose: to [sUNG] "look through any window, yeaaaaah" [/sUNG]. (Okay, okay; I'll stop singing.)

But the other "main" reason was because I knew the model could be exported to a wide variety of other formats at any time to refine and tweak it toward greater accuracy in other programs geared towards that. So far, the thing has done everything I wanted to do with it admirably, and for any other uses it was set up from the git-go for portability.

Re: The Myers Sixth Floor Show and Tell

I remain stupefied beyond speech that a man would invest the months of work required to create a 3D model of such infinite probative and investigative and exploratory potential, then limit the use of it to the narrow confines of "proving" a fixed and preconceived notion of one man, one gun, one place. I personally consider it the grandest abuse of art in the length and breadth of history. I have no idea what he was paid, but I hope it was worth it.

Dawn:

I'm always happy to invoke a smile under any circumstances. It helps me pay off my enormous debt of frowns and scowls that I have left strewn across the landscape in my wake.

And, without singing: "Hello--I must be going...."

Ashton

Edited by Ashton Gray
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'Ashton Gray' wrote:

[...]

Re: The Myers Sixth Floor Show and Tell

I remain stupefied beyond speech that a man would invest the months of work required to create a 3D model of such infinite probative and investigative and exploratory potential, then limit the use of it to the narrow confines of "proving" a fixed and preconceived notion of one man, one gun, one place. I personally consider it the grandest abuse of art in the length and breadth of history. I have no idea what he was paid, but I hope it was worth it.

dgh: I'm sure ABC (or the leading project production company) paid at least union scale for his work, and of course, a *national* Emmy award IS worth it.

DHealy

[...]

Ashton

Edited by David G. Healy
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[quote name='Bill Charleston' date='Sep 5 2006, 08:09 PM' post='74055']

I was in contact with Dale Meyers last year concerning inaccuracies in his animation but we never went past the point of just discussing some observations I had. He of course is a lone gunman "theorist."

Bill:

Lucky you. I would love to have a go at it with Mr. Meyers, but I think my temper might get in the way. :lol: (And it takes a lot to get me angry). I have yet to see this entire piece of crap. When it aired on ABC in 03 I could only take about 15 minutes of it. It is really sickening that the HC keeps replaying it. Pretty high tech disinformation. Anyone not knowing a thing about this case could be persuaded that this bullet was indeed "magic". Meyers deserves an award for fraud.

Ashton: Good to see you back!

Great work guys.

Dawn

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Hi Dawn;

Of course Dale Meyers says he was once a believer in conspiracy, but now he is Warren Commission convert (my words, not his).

I wanted to meet with him and discuss a plan, he wanted no part of it. It took several emails to him before he even acknowledged my existence. I am quite sure his appearance in ABC's "BEYOND CONSPIRACY" and later in the Discovery Channel's "Beyond the Magic Bullet" will one day be classics, and not in the way he thinks they will be. Imagine if you hear Peter Jennings telling us again and again, if you don't believe the Warren Commission, you really need help :-)

I watched every minute of both shows, it's necessary to understand the enemy to defeat them.

Bill

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