Jack White Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Yes, FBI docs show Regis Kennedy in New Orleans. But he was in Marcello's pocket. So was Hoover. Do you know how? J Edgar was head of the FBI and controlled the evidence, remember? Photograph show Lee Harvey Oswald in his backyard with a gun and magazine ....... I will make Beverly aware of this thread, than she may decide to contact you (or not). She is very religious now, she runs a Christian ministry with her husband. I don't think God would approve of her telling stories, do you? Wim Wim, I have been researching this case for over thirty years and you would think I and a number of old timers would back up all negative claims by individuals. Why is it that a number of old timers do not back up her claims? Yes, I remember that Hoover was head of the FBI. Please note that Jack White is in contact with her right now. Please do not run the chance of ruining Jack's connection with Oliver as to many request may delay or stop her for taking time out to answer my questions. I have seen a number of well known Church leaders confess their sins even on national television. Would God approve you using him this way??? john w CORRECTION: I have been informed by Gary that Oliver did not have accessed to Jada's clothing. Thanks Gary! john w John...just who are the OLD-TIMERS who do not believe Beverly? I know all of the old-timers (and am one). I believe her; so did Penn and Mary. Gary Shaw believes her. Groden believes her. Gary Mack and Dave Perry do not believe her...but they certainly are not old-timers. Jack Jack, Thanks and sorry I'm not allow by your email to post it. Bud was one of the researchers who did not believe in Oliver's story (refer to "Pictures of the Pain" by Richard Trask. Sprague could be another researcher. I know that Trask is another researcher. Please note that I did a CORRECTION on Oliver's access to Jada's clothing thanks to Gary M. MY GREAT THANKS AND APPRECIATION TO JACK WHITE AND MS. OLIVER FOR TAKING THEIR TIME AND TROUBLE IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS. john w John...you are misquoting my email. Beverly gave answers to all of your questions. I DID NOT PROHIBIT YOU FROM QUOTING HER ANSWERS. To the contrary, I said use her answers, but don't use her verbatim personal email to me, since it contained several of Bev's comments NOT PERTINENT TO HER ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS. By all means, I expected you to to tell what her answers are to your questions or I would not have gone to the trouble of emailing them to her. Re the OLD TIMERS you mention...I assume you mean BUD Fensterwald; Bud was an old timer of sorts, if you overlook his CIA connections...and I am not aware of any statement by him disavowing Beverly. Can you provide such a statement? I met him when Stone was filming JFK in Dallas, and Stone firmly believed Beverly. I knew Dick Sprague well, and never heard his opinion of Beverly. However, Sprague's close friend Robert Cutler, a real old timer, did believe her. And to call TRASK an old timer is wrong; he is a librarian with possible agency ties who wrote provable lies about me, so why would he be truthful about Beverly? Though I was well known as a photo researcher, he avoided interviewing me for his book or requesting that I furnish photos or photo information. Instead his book contains much misinformation about me and attempts to debunk all of my research. I do not trust his opinion on anything. Jack Edited September 13, 2006 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Yes, FBI docs show Regis Kennedy in New Orleans. But he was in Marcello's pocket. So was Hoover. Do you know how? J Edgar was head of the FBI and controlled the evidence, remember? Photograph show Lee Harvey Oswald in his backyard with a gun and magazine ....... I will make Beverly aware of this thread, than she may decide to contact you (or not). She is very religious now, she runs a Christian ministry with her husband. I don't think God would approve of her telling stories, do you? Wim Wim, I have been researching this case for over thirty years and you would think I and a number of old timers would back up all negative claims by individuals. Why is it that a number of old timers do not back up her claims? Yes, I remember that Hoover was head of the FBI. Please note that Jack White is in contact with her right now. Please do not run the chance of ruining Jack's connection with Oliver as to many request may delay or stop her for taking time out to answer my questions. I have seen a number of well known Church leaders confess their sins even on national television. Would God approve you using him this way??? john w CORRECTION: I have been informed by Gary that Oliver did not have accessed to Jada's clothing. Thanks Gary! john w John...just who are the OLD-TIMERS who do not believe Beverly? I know all of the old-timers (and am one). I believe her; so did Penn and Mary. Gary Shaw believes her. Groden believes her. Gary Mack and Dave Perry do not believe her...but they certainly are not old-timers. Jack Jack, Thanks and sorry I'm not allow by your email to post it. Bud was one of the researchers who did not believe in Oliver's story (refer to "Pictures of the Pain" by Richard Trask. Sprague could be another researcher. I know that Trask is another researcher. Please note that I did a CORRECTION on Oliver's access to Jada's clothing thanks to Gary M. MY GREAT THANKS AND APPRECIATION TO JACK WHITE AND MS. OLIVER FOR TAKING THEIR TIME AND TROUBLE IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS. john w John...you are misquoting my email. Beverly gave answers to all of your questions. I DID NOT PROHIBIT YOU FROM QUOTING HER ANSWERS. To the contrary, I said use her answers, but don't use her verbatim personal email to me, since it contained several of Bev's comments NOT PERTINENT TO HER ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS. By all means, I expected you to to tell what her answers are to your questions or I would not have gone to the trouble of emailing them to her. Re the OLD TIMERS you mention...I assume you mean BUD Fensterwald; Bud was an old timer of sorts, if you overlook his CIA connections...and I am not aware of any statement by him disavowing Beverly. Can you provide such a statement? I met him when Stone was filming JFK in Dallas, and Stone firmly believed Beverly. I knew Dick Sprague well, and never heard his opinion of Beverly. However, Sprague's close friend Robert Cutler, a real old timer, did believe her. And to call TRASK an old timer is wrong; he is a librarian with possible agency ties who wrote provable lies about me, so why would he be truthful about Beverly? Though I was well known as a photo researcher, he avoided interviewing me for his book or requesting that I furnish photos or photo information. Instead his book contains much misinformation about me and attempts to debunk all of my research. I do not trust his opinion on anything. Jack Thanks Jack, "John...Beverly kindley replied to your questions in this personal email to me. You may use the information she provides, but I suggest that you not post or use her reply verbatin. You will note that she does not want me to give out her email address. I hope this helps your research...but you are on the wrong track if you think she is lying" From your email I assume I could used the information from Oliver via your email for "research" and "but I suggest that you not post or use her reply verbatim" which means do not post. That is why in the above post I wroted, "Thanks and sorry I'm not allow by your email to post it" Jack, I do not believe that I was "misquoting my email". Would you feel more at easy with relaying the statements in her email? Please check out Trask's book (Pictures of a Pain) concerning the Babushka Lady and reference notes. This is the first I have ever heard "with possible agency ties" and that, "who wrote provable lies about me", could you please refer me to which book Trask wrote about you? Thanks! I'm very aware of Bud's ties with the Agency and way back had access to some of his work. Some of my family friends (and family members) are contacted with the various agencys including Secret Service Clint Hill who was a closed friend of my Dad while they served togeather in same Army's CIC (Counter Intelligence Corps) Reserve unit. In fact, my father had was already to hired Clint at his job prior to Clint being accepted with the Secret Service. I guess that makes me a son-of-a-spook? I would have to consider anyone with over twenty five years of their lives researching the assassination an old timer. A number of the original oldtimers have pass away, Harold Weisberg, Meagher, Jones (as you mention), Ferrel, Kimbrough, Mrs. Enid Gray and other's I nevered had a chance to corresponded. Robert Cutler along with Jones and Weisberg where among the first researchers I corresponded with way back in the early 1970's. On a regular bases, I exchanged letters and telephone calls with Cutler up to the 1980's and gave up because he was too engross with his Umbrella Man theory. I'm not even sure if he is still alive. Oversea's researchers such Griggs, Summers, a gentleman from Ireland whom published a newsletter (deceased). "I wll be glad to forward more questions to her, but I suggest you ask only questions which do not directly contradict her story, as that puts her on the defensive and you are likely to get a somewhat 'defensive' answer" in your recent email. Jack, I DO APPRECIATE all your help and graphics. But if I can not asked her questions "which do not directly contradict her story" than I'm SUNK. Can you PLEASE tell me what questions I can ask her??? john w Edited September 13, 2006 by John Woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Yes, FBI docs show Regis Kennedy in New Orleans. But he was in Marcello's pocket. So was Hoover. Do you know how? J Edgar was head of the FBI and controlled the evidence, remember? Photograph show Lee Harvey Oswald in his backyard with a gun and magazine ....... I will make Beverly aware of this thread, than she may decide to contact you (or not). She is very religious now, she runs a Christian ministry with her husband. I don't think God would approve of her telling stories, do you? Wim Wim, I have been researching this case for over thirty years and you would think I and a number of old timers would back up all negative claims by individuals. Why is it that a number of old timers do not back up her claims? Yes, I remember that Hoover was head of the FBI. Please note that Jack White is in contact with her right now. Please do not run the chance of ruining Jack's connection with Oliver as to many request may delay or stop her for taking time out to answer my questions. I have seen a number of well known Church leaders confess their sins even on national television. Would God approve you using him this way??? john w CORRECTION: I have been informed by Gary that Oliver did not have accessed to Jada's clothing. Thanks Gary! john w John...just who are the OLD-TIMERS who do not believe Beverly? I know all of the old-timers (and am one). I believe her; so did Penn and Mary. Gary Shaw believes her. Groden believes her. Gary Mack and Dave Perry do not believe her...but they certainly are not old-timers. Jack Jack, Thanks and sorry I'm not allow by your email to post it. Bud was one of the researchers who did not believe in Oliver's story (refer to "Pictures of the Pain" by Richard Trask. Sprague could be another researcher. I know that Trask is another researcher. Please note that I did a CORRECTION on Oliver's access to Jada's clothing thanks to Gary M. MY GREAT THANKS AND APPRECIATION TO JACK WHITE AND MS. OLIVER FOR TAKING THEIR TIME AND TROUBLE IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS. john w John...you are misquoting my email. Beverly gave answers to all of your questions. I DID NOT PROHIBIT YOU FROM QUOTING HER ANSWERS. To the contrary, I said use her answers, but don't use her verbatim personal email to me, since it contained several of Bev's comments NOT PERTINENT TO HER ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS. By all means, I expected you to to tell what her answers are to your questions or I would not have gone to the trouble of emailing them to her. Re the OLD TIMERS you mention...I assume you mean BUD Fensterwald; Bud was an old timer of sorts, if you overlook his CIA connections...and I am not aware of any statement by him disavowing Beverly. Can you provide such a statement? I met him when Stone was filming JFK in Dallas, and Stone firmly believed Beverly. I knew Dick Sprague well, and never heard his opinion of Beverly. However, Sprague's close friend Robert Cutler, a real old timer, did believe her. And to call TRASK an old timer is wrong; he is a librarian with possible agency ties who wrote provable lies about me, so why would he be truthful about Beverly? Though I was well known as a photo researcher, he avoided interviewing me for his book or requesting that I furnish photos or photo information. Instead his book contains much misinformation about me and attempts to debunk all of my research. I do not trust his opinion on anything. Jack Thanks Jack, "John...Beverly kindley replied to your questions in this personal email to me. You may use the information she provides, but I suggest that you not post or use her reply verbatin. You will note that she does not want me to give out her email address. I hope this helps your research...but you are on the wrong track if you think she is lying" From your email I assume I could used the information from Oliver via your email for "research" and "but I suggest that you not post or use her reply verbatim" which means do not post. That is why in the above post I wroted, "Thanks and sorry I'm not allow by your email to post it" Jack, I do not believe that I was "misquoting my email". Would you feel more at easy with relaying the statements in her email? Please check out Trask's book (Pictures of a Pain) concerning the Babushka Lady and reference notes. This is the first I have ever heard "with possible agency ties" and that, "who wrote provable lies about me", could you please refer me to which book Trask wrote about you? Thanks! I'm very aware of Bud's ties with the Agency and way back had access to some of his work. Some of my family friends (and family members) are contacted with the various agencys including Secret Service Clint Hill who was a closed friend of my Dad while they served togeather in same Army's CIC (Counter Intelligence Corps) unit. In fact, my father had was already to hired Clint at his job prior to Clint being accepted with the Secret Service. I guess that makes me a son-of-a-spook? I would have to consider anyone with over twenty five years of their lives researching the assassination an old timer. A number of the original oldtimers have pass away, Harold Weisberg, Meagher, Jones (as you mention), Ferrel, Kimbrough, Mrs. Enid Gray and other's I nevered had a chance to corresponded. Robert Cutler along with Jones and Weisberg where among the first researchers I corresponded with way back in the early 1970's. On a regular bases, I exchanged letters and telephone calls with Cutler up to the 1980's and gave up because he was too engross with his Umbrella Man theory. I'm not even sure if he is still alive. Oversea's researchers such Griggs, Summers, a gentleman from Ireland whom published a newsletter (deceased). "I wll be glad to forward more questions to her, but I suggest you ask only questions whic do no directly contradict her story, as that pusts oer on the defensive and yu are likely to geat a somewhat 'defensvie' answer" in your recent email. Jack, I DO APPRECIATE all your help and graphics. But if I can not asked her questions "which do not directly contradict her story" than I'm SUNK. Can you PLEASE tell me what questions I can ask her??? john w John...I regret your defensive attitude regarding this. I volunteered to ask Beverly questions that you might want answered. She very kindly answered as a personal favor. She also included many personal observations to me which I suggested that you not quote, even though she and I both expected you to USE THE ANSWERS RELEVANT TO YOUR QUESTIONS. I could have edited her reply, but simply furnished it in total with the suggestion that you ONLY use the answers relevant to your questions. I repeat...ask her any questions you want, and feel free to publish the answers that are relevant. But you will get nowhere by making her angry with your questions. That is why many researchers get a bad reputation. Surely you have questions that will not anger her. Calling her a xxxx is not conducive to getting answers to questions. Simply phrase your questions in a non-accusatory manner. Like anyone, she does not appreciated being called a xxxx. She likely will refuse to answer hostile questions. I was only making the common sense suggestion that you not alienate Beverly by asking questions like YOU ARE LYING ABOUT TAKING A MOVIE AREN'T YOU? Regarding Robert Cutler...he has had Alzheimer's for a number of years. I do not know of any Weisberg opinion regarding Beverly. Many other "old timers" you mention died before the revelation of Oliver as the B Lady in the 80s, so they could not have an opinion. You still have not quoted ANY actual "old timer" who can prove that Beverly is lying. My list of "old timers"...Lane, Meagher, Sprague, Cutler, Ferrell, Jones, Shaw, Groden, Salandria, Weisberg, Lifton, Livingstone, Thompson, Epstein, Sauvage, Joesten, Brussell, Fox and a few lesser ones. The dividing line in my mind is WHO WAS A PROMINENT RESEARCHER BEFORE THE GARRISON INVESTIGATION. I am willing to assist your research, but your hostile attitude is very puzzling. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I sensed where this was going. John Woods is on record as follows: The sad part and the very truth of the matter, is if you do not support a conspiracy allegation, you became a target of the research community. Myself, I do not support the allegations setforth by the socalled Babushka Lady and have run into trouble from the FAIR MINDED research community. Its a joke.....johnw source: http://groups.google.nl/group/alt.conspira...fd2faf23c3a9aa9 FWIW Here's a comment from Timo Mikkonen, a friend of Beverly: "Strange discussion. Someone is trying to mess things ..." Let's turn it around and assume that Beverly was not the Babushka lady. That means we have a Dealey Plaza witness with a camera, filming the assassination, who vanished from the earth, never came forward or was identified otherwise. Neither did the FBI attempt to find this woman or her film, although she is clearly visible on Zapruder. How likely is all that? Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Jack, Please show me where I have commented on your posting and where I have been actually "hostile" and I will review and post either a clarification or an apology. I will try and cover my last posting for you. I was clarifying for you my understanding of your email and your actually posting of the forum in which you stated on the forum that I mis-quoted you. I felt that I did not mis-quote you as per your email. You mention about Trask "with having possible agency ties" and I pointed out to you my father's background. It was not intended to be considered "hostile". If you took it that way, I'm sorry. I was attempting to show that there are researchers who have some sort of agency background. I'm confused by your using the large caps. Are you shouting or anger with me? I recall that the Babushka Lady was mention in the book, "CoverUp" by Shaw and Harris which was originally to be published in 1975 and the released in 1976. A story by Earl Goltz came out in the late 1970's and her (Oliver testimony) for the House Select Committee on Assassinations who's investigation ended in 1979 (I believe but will be happy corrected). I gather from this that Oliver was well known. "As to the Babushka Lady, I have filed under F.O.I.A. under he name. S.S. files are negative and F.B.I. has not responded. Am not free to gave her name out at this time. Regards J. Gary Shaw" August 14, 1978 I mention Bud, but he has been discredited as being connected to the agency as an old time researcher. I'm very pleased to see that Thompson made your list! That is Josiah Thompson and not that other Thompson who believes one of the assassins fired a machine gun between his legs? I would have too include Costell and Fetzer. Please check out Trask's book, "Pictures of a Pain" regarding Bud's comment. Ok, I gather by Wim last posting that anyone who does not believe in Oliver being the Babushka Lady is pro-Warren Commision. Wim, check out the alt assassination groups that are on the website. You may what to try under "Babushka Lady", "Beverly Oliver" or even "Woman with Camera". I have mention a few already but they have been discredited as being with questionable backgrounds. There are a good number of researchers who are out there sharing information and never given credit for the work they have done. So I'm gathering, if you are not published or well known your not consider reliable Wim? I'm very sorry to hear that Cutler has Alzheimers. That is a very serious sickness. Cutler once place Eddie Bayo behind the grassy knoll fence as being one of the shooters on one of his spatial charts. I was very excited and I wrote to him how he was able to come up and IDENTIFIED Bayo as the shooter! He told he just place his name there and prove him wrong!!!!!!!! I guess that would make me the spotter next to Bayo. Jack, lair has not been used by all the researchers in this case. Lesser action words have been the case, not all I totally agree with you. As of yet and I have go over our email too, I have only questions for Oliver and have yet call her a lair. I just want to make that clear to all the researchers who have readed this forum. Once again, if you are interested in seeing the Harrision interview I will see if I can make a copy for you. If I'm unable to make a copy for you ( copyright infringement) than I will take quotes and post them on the forum. In fact, given time I may just go ahead a post the important quotes from Harrision so that other researchers can read and comment. As earlier mention, please point out to me were you consider my last post as being "hostile". thanks john w ps Its two in the morning and I will talk to you later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Wim, Very good you are digging up information on me! And you just proved my statement. Wim, have you watch the John Harrision interviewed? Than you agree that the FBI did its job in locating all the films and photographs taken on the 22nd? Could the real Babushka Lady be dead? Please have Timo contact me at the forum or by my email. Is Timo just a "friend" of Oliver's or a researcher too? I smell something too and its not teen spirit. I'm guessing I will be next to be label "agency" which is very easily done by a few and a fast way to cut off that person. "Sad" Could there be a tie in with the Babushka Lady and the woman who contacted the Detriot FBI Office? Let's see, Earl lived in Detriot. Let's not forgot Eva Grants interview where Jack and Tom Howard were trying to sell photographs of Kennedy's head blowoff. Nor the check in the amount of $2,000.00 wrote out to Howard by Earl in January 1964. Pretty high price attorney for such little work done on the case. Humm, according to Eva, Jack and Tom trying to sell images of Kennedy's head blowoff. A call from a woman to the FBI Detriot Office of a film showing the Kennedy assassination. Earl living in Detriot at the time. And Harrision stating on video, two images taken from the infield grass, one showing the TSBD and the other showing the presidential motorcade out of focus. Humm If you have not seen the Harrision interview than something is just strange too. john w Wim, since you are digging information up on me I will no longer reply to your statements as I can tell were you are going as a waste of time. Edited September 13, 2006 by John Woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Wim, since you are digging information up on me I will no longer reply to your statements as I can tell were you are going as a waste of time. ********************* You can tell where I am going? Then you can do more than me. The information I am "digging up" on you is all public. I believe there is nothing forbidden about that, and in fact good practice for any researcher, to check where the messenger stands himself with his opinion. It may have some influence on the objectivity of his research, you know. I did not say you are unable to revise your opinion, which you voiced 3 years ago. However, I think it would have been fair to point out that you're skeptical about Beverly's claims, unless you're not anymore. What is your objective research on Beverly? Are your intentions to weaken or strenghten her story, or just present the facts as they flow? Timo is a friend and a researcher. Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Jack,Please show me where I have commented on your posting and where I have been actually "hostile" and I will review and post either a clarification or an apology. I will try and cover my last posting for you. I was clarifying for you my understanding of your email and your actually posting of the forum in which you stated on the forum that I mis-quoted you. I felt that I did not mis-quote you as per your email. You mention about Trask "with having possible agency ties" and I pointed out to you my father's background. It was not intended to be considered "hostile". If you took it that way, I'm sorry. I was attempting to show that there are researchers who have some sort of agency background. I'm confused by your using the large caps. Are you shouting or anger with me? I recall that the Babushka Lady was mention in the book, "CoverUp" by Shaw and Harris which was originally to be published in 1975 and the released in 1976. A story by Earl Goltz came out in the late 1970's and her (Oliver testimony) for the House Select Committee on Assassinations who's investigation ended in 1979 (I believe but will be happy corrected). I gather from this that Oliver was well known. "As to the Babushka Lady, I have filed under F.O.I.A. under he name. S.S. files are negative and F.B.I. has not responded. Am not free to gave her name out at this time. Regards J. Gary Shaw" August 14, 1978 I mention Bud, but he has been discredited as being connected to the agency as an old time researcher. I'm very pleased to see that Thompson made your list! That is Josiah Thompson and not that other Thompson who believes one of the assassins fired a machine gun between his legs? I would have too include Costell and Fetzer. Please check out Trask's book, "Pictures of a Pain" regarding Bud's comment. Ok, I gather by Wim last posting that anyone who does not believe in Oliver being the Babushka Lady is pro-Warren Commision. Wim, check out the alt assassination groups that are on the website. You may what to try under "Babushka Lady", "Beverly Oliver" or even "Woman with Camera". I have mention a few already but they have been discredited as being with questionable backgrounds. There are a good number of researchers who are out there sharing information and never given credit for the work they have done. So I'm gathering, if you are not published or well known your not consider reliable Wim? I'm very sorry to hear that Cutler has Alzheimers. That is a very serious sickness. Cutler once place Eddie Bayo behind the grassy knoll fence as being one of the shooters on one of his spatial charts. I was very excited and I wrote to him how he was able to come up and IDENTIFIED Bayo as the shooter! He told he just place his name there and prove him wrong!!!!!!!! I guess that would make me the spotter next to Bayo. Jack, lair has not been used by all the researchers in this case. Lesser action words have been the case, not all I totally agree with you. As of yet and I have go over our email too, I have only questions for Oliver and have yet call her a lair. I just want to make that clear to all the researchers who have readed this forum. Once again, if you are interested in seeing the Harrision interview I will see if I can make a copy for you. If I'm unable to make a copy for you ( copyright infringement) than I will take quotes and post them on the forum. In fact, given time I may just go ahead a post the important quotes from Harrision so that other researchers can read and comment. As earlier mention, please point out to me were you consider my last post as being "hostile". thanks john w ps Its two in the morning and I will talk to you later John...sorry if I have offended you. By the way, I temporarily retract one thing I said about Trask, that he told lies about me in his book. I checked and could not find the quotes I remember. I may have mixed him up with Posner; both their books came out in the 1993-94 period, and both trashed my research. I wrote letters to both and received unpleasant replies. One or the other of them said "White runs a "mom and pop business" selling JFK materials. Hogwash. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Jack,Please show me where I have commented on your posting and where I have been actually "hostile" and I will review and post either a clarification or an apology. I will try and cover my last posting for you. I was clarifying for you my understanding of your email and your actually posting of the forum in which you stated on the forum that I mis-quoted you. I felt that I did not mis-quote you as per your email. You mention about Trask "with having possible agency ties" and I pointed out to you my father's background. It was not intended to be considered "hostile". If you took it that way, I'm sorry. I was attempting to show that there are researchers who have some sort of agency background. I'm confused by your using the large caps. Are you shouting or anger with me? I recall that the Babushka Lady was mention in the book, "CoverUp" by Shaw and Harris which was originally to be published in 1975 and the released in 1976. A story by Earl Goltz came out in the late 1970's and her (Oliver testimony) for the House Select Committee on Assassinations who's investigation ended in 1979 (I believe but will be happy corrected). I gather from this that Oliver was well known. "As to the Babushka Lady, I have filed under F.O.I.A. under he name. S.S. files are negative and F.B.I. has not responded. Am not free to gave her name out at this time. Regards J. Gary Shaw" August 14, 1978 I mention Bud, but he has been discredited as being connected to the agency as an old time researcher. I'm very pleased to see that Thompson made your list! That is Josiah Thompson and not that other Thompson who believes one of the assassins fired a machine gun between his legs? I would have too include Costell and Fetzer. Please check out Trask's book, "Pictures of a Pain" regarding Bud's comment. Ok, I gather by Wim last posting that anyone who does not believe in Oliver being the Babushka Lady is pro-Warren Commision. Wim, check out the alt assassination groups that are on the website. You may what to try under "Babushka Lady", "Beverly Oliver" or even "Woman with Camera". I have mention a few already but they have been discredited as being with questionable backgrounds. There are a good number of researchers who are out there sharing information and never given credit for the work they have done. So I'm gathering, if you are not published or well known your not consider reliable Wim? I'm very sorry to hear that Cutler has Alzheimers. That is a very serious sickness. Cutler once place Eddie Bayo behind the grassy knoll fence as being one of the shooters on one of his spatial charts. I was very excited and I wrote to him how he was able to come up and IDENTIFIED Bayo as the shooter! He told he just place his name there and prove him wrong!!!!!!!! I guess that would make me the spotter next to Bayo. Jack, lair has not been used by all the researchers in this case. Lesser action words have been the case, not all I totally agree with you. As of yet and I have go over our email too, I have only questions for Oliver and have yet call her a lair. I just want to make that clear to all the researchers who have readed this forum. Once again, if you are interested in seeing the Harrision interview I will see if I can make a copy for you. If I'm unable to make a copy for you ( copyright infringement) than I will take quotes and post them on the forum. In fact, given time I may just go ahead a post the important quotes from Harrision so that other researchers can read and comment. As earlier mention, please point out to me were you consider my last post as being "hostile". thanks john w ps Its two in the morning and I will talk to you later John...sorry if I have offended you. By the way, I temporarily retract one thing I said about Trask, that he told lies about me in his book. I checked and could not find the quotes I remember. I may have mixed him up with Posner; both their books came out in the 1993-94 period, and both trashed my research. I wrote letters to both and received unpleasant replies. One or the other of them said "White runs a "mom and pop business" selling JFK materials. Hogwash. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Jack, Please show me where I have commented on your posting and where I have been actually "hostile" and I will review and post either a clarification or an apology. I will try and cover my last posting for you. I was clarifying for you my understanding of your email and your actually posting of the forum in which you stated on the forum that I mis-quoted you. I felt that I did not mis-quote you as per your email. You mention about Trask "with having possible agency ties" and I pointed out to you my father's background. It was not intended to be considered "hostile". If you took it that way, I'm sorry. I was attempting to show that there are researchers who have some sort of agency background. I'm confused by your using the large caps. Are you shouting or anger with me? I recall that the Babushka Lady was mention in the book, "CoverUp" by Shaw and Harris which was originally to be published in 1975 and the released in 1976. A story by Earl Goltz came out in the late 1970's and her (Oliver testimony) for the House Select Committee on Assassinations who's investigation ended in 1979 (I believe but will be happy corrected). I gather from this that Oliver was well known. "As to the Babushka Lady, I have filed under F.O.I.A. under he name. S.S. files are negative and F.B.I. has not responded. Am not free to gave her name out at this time. Regards J. Gary Shaw" August 14, 1978 I mention Bud, but he has been discredited as being connected to the agency as an old time researcher. I'm very pleased to see that Thompson made your list! That is Josiah Thompson and not that other Thompson who believes one of the assassins fired a machine gun between his legs? I would have too include Costell and Fetzer. Please check out Trask's book, "Pictures of a Pain" regarding Bud's comment. Ok, I gather by Wim last posting that anyone who does not believe in Oliver being the Babushka Lady is pro-Warren Commision. Wim, check out the alt assassination groups that are on the website. You may what to try under "Babushka Lady", "Beverly Oliver" or even "Woman with Camera". I have mention a few already but they have been discredited as being with questionable backgrounds. There are a good number of researchers who are out there sharing information and never given credit for the work they have done. So I'm gathering, if you are not published or well known your not consider reliable Wim? I'm very sorry to hear that Cutler has Alzheimers. That is a very serious sickness. Cutler once place Eddie Bayo behind the grassy knoll fence as being one of the shooters on one of his spatial charts. I was very excited and I wrote to him how he was able to come up and IDENTIFIED Bayo as the shooter! He told he just place his name there and prove him wrong!!!!!!!! I guess that would make me the spotter next to Bayo. Jack, lair has not been used by all the researchers in this case. Lesser action words have been the case, not all I totally agree with you. As of yet and I have go over our email too, I have only questions for Oliver and have yet call her a lair. I just want to make that clear to all the researchers who have readed this forum. Once again, if you are interested in seeing the Harrision interview I will see if I can make a copy for you. If I'm unable to make a copy for you ( copyright infringement) than I will take quotes and post them on the forum. In fact, given time I may just go ahead a post the important quotes from Harrision so that other researchers can read and comment. As earlier mention, please point out to me were you consider my last post as being "hostile". thanks john w ps Its two in the morning and I will talk to you later John...sorry if I have offended you. By the way, I temporarily retract one thing I said about Trask, that he told lies about me in his book. I checked and could not find the quotes I remember. I may have mixed him up with Posner; both their books came out in the 1993-94 period, and both trashed my research. I wrote letters to both and received unpleasant replies. One or the other of them said "White runs a "mom and pop business" selling JFK materials. Hogwash. Jack Jack, It was Posner that attack you and not Trask. Would you like me to make some quotes available to you from Harrision? It appears that if Gary & Larry published their book "CoverUp" in 1976, they would have known about Oliver at least a year prior. Have you read the footnotes in Trask book regarding Bud's concerns about Oliver? Do you see any chance of a tie in with the Mrs. Beck of Detriot, home town of Earl Ruby and the Babushka Lady? Were you aware that Jack and Tom Howard, according to Eve's testimony were attempting to sell images of JFK's head wound? What about Jack being in the Plaza? Or at Parkland Hospital? Or in the hallways of the DPD? His access to shoot Oswald? It is believe not only by Burt Griffin that Sgt. Dean allow Ruby access to kill Oswald but also by the HSCA. Did you know that Dean's father-in-law was the Chief of Security at Parkland Hospital? Check out the DCA film footage of the showing the outside of the DPD headquarters following the shooting of Oswald. While almost ever one is running towards the basement enterance one man is walking away. It looks like Tom Howard. If you have been reading my post, you notice that Howard was paid $2,000.00 in January 1964. Are you seeing the dots connect with this case? I glad to see that I have not offended you and you have not offended me. Anychance you can post the images you have prepared for Oliver's conference? I believe that the Harrision interviewed is important. thanks again for all your help. john w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Another member of this forum sent this entire thread to Beverly. I just received a very nice personal note from her stating definitively that John Woods is wrong when he says that Bud Fensterwald and Dick Sprague did not believe her story. She had long discussions with both of them in person, and they indicated NO disbelief but support. If John has proof to the contrary, he should post it. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Woods Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) Another member of this forum sent this entire thread to Beverly. I justreceived a very nice personal note from her stating definitively that John Woods is wrong when he says that Bud Fensterwald and Dick Sprague did not believe her story. She had long discussions with both of them in person, and they indicated NO disbelief but support. If John has proof to the contrary, he should post it. Jack Jack, I have made numerous reference's to the book by Trask, so that you can read the book yourself for all those whom doubt me And after numerous times, I ask you if you would like to view the Harrision interview. At least you were honest enough to say you have never seen it unlke another researcher whom I guessing has never seen his interview. I even told you I would quote from the interview (all granting if I'n not dealing with copyright issues), and you never responded to that question. Or the questions above. You told me that another forum member sent to Oliver the complete thread. I'm sure I know whom this member is even when I ask him NOT TO because it could mess up the contact with you and Oliver. Amazing and "SAD". This has been very one sided, I ask those researchers to reply to my questions and I hear mostly silence. I asked if anyone of these two reseachers have seen the Harrison inteview and at least one says no and the other one remains silent. Once again as I have previous stated that the Harrision interview is important. I have public information posted on me on this forum, so I guess I'm doing something right that makes me very proud. I still stand behind my quote of three years ago, if you do not follow the accept lines of the government critics you are a outcast. Jack and every one else. I guess that I will just save the questions for when Oliver goes to her conference? To all those who contacted me by private email and forum email I THANK YOU. I would still like to have more researchers contact me. Private and forum email would be the best. Thanks again, john w Edited September 14, 2006 by John Woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Another member of this forum sent this entire thread to Beverly. I just received a very nice personal note from her stating definitively that John Woods is wrong when he says that Bud Fensterwald and Dick Sprague did not believe her story. She had long discussions with both of them in person, and they indicated NO disbelief but support. If John has proof to the contrary, he should post it. Jack Jack, I have made numerous reference's to the book by Trask, so that you can read the book yourself for all those whom doubt me And after numerous times, I ask you if you would like to view the Harrision interview. At least you were honest enough to say you have never seen it unlke another researcher whom I guessing has never seen his interview. I even told you I would quote from the interview (all granting if I'n not dealing with copyright issues), and you never responded to that question. Or the questions above. You told me that another forum member sent to Oliver the complete thread. I'm sure I know whom this member is even when I ask him NOT TO because it could mess up the contact with you and Oliver. Amazing and "SAD". This has been very one sided, I ask those researchers to reply to my questions and I hear mostly silence. I asked if anyone of these two reseachers have seen the Harrison inteview and at least one says no and the other one remains silent. Once again as I have previous stated that the Harrision interview is important. I have public information posted on me on this forum, so I guess I'm doing something right that makes me very proud. I still stand behind my quote of three years ago, if you do not follow the accept lines of the government critics you are a outcast. Jack and every one else. I guess that I will just save the questions for when Oliver goes to her conference? To all those who contacted me by private email and forum email I THANK YOU. I would still like to have more researchers contact me. Private and forum email would be the best. Thanks again, john w We still don't know anything about the Harrison interview. Why don't you tell us the gist of it...or post it? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 (edited) Texas Monthly journalist Gary Cartwright WAS INTRODUCED TO BEVERLY OLIVER IN 1975 BY JADA AND FRIEND BUD SHRAKE. (Her identity was not known to the general public till about 1978.) Cartwright wrote of meeting Jada and Oliver in the Texas Monthly magazine as follows: ....................................... "Scene of the Crime" Texas Monthly, December 1990 It all looked so different 27 years ago. by Gary Cartwright Time plays tricks, doesn't it? What looked like gold-plated truth in the exuberance of youth appears cheap and tawdry in the unforgiving light of experience. In 1975 I wrote a story for Texas Monthly in which I concluded that Jack Ruby acted alone, that one lone nut killed another. I don't believe that anymore. My friend Bud Shrake, who shared an apartment with me on Cole Avenue in 1963, recently refreshed my memory. Ruby and other characters from the Carousel Club, including an unforgettable stripper named Jada, hung around our apartment. After the assassination Jada told us Ruby once introduced her to Lee Oswald at the Carousel. While they were having drinks, Beverly Oliver, a singer from the Colony Club next door, stopped by and was also introduced. For some reason, I chose to forget Jada's story when I wrote about Ruby in 1975. Jada is dead now, but I phoned Beverly not long ago and asked if she remembered. "Sure do," she said. Ruby introduced him as 'my friend Lee from the CIA.'" ............................ So here is a witness who MET BEVERLY OLIVER BEFORE HER STORY BECAME PUBLIC. This should settle any doubts. Jack PS...thanks to Beverly, who sent me this clipping reminding me of Cartwright's story. Bev wrote: Dear Jack, Here is a copy of the Texas monthly article that Gary Cartwight wrote which I thinks exonorates me totally as far as tha Jada and Oswald thing goes. I did not know if you had ever seen it or not. Gary used to be a lone nut believer. Bud Shrake was the main squeeze of our now deceased {yesterday} ex-Govenor Ann Richards, so neither of these men are lightweights and neither has an agenda. Enjoy. Lovingly, Bev PS. Please give me your feedback. Edited September 15, 2006 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Beverly just sent me a copy of a DICK SPRAGUE letter to Louis Stokes regarding THE BEVERLY OLIVER FILM. This is a clear indication that Sprague believed her story. He did NOT ask for the "Babushka Lady Film". Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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