Babuska Lady

[Jack White]

Another member of this forum sent this entire thread to Beverly. I just

received a very nice personal note from her stating definitively that

John Woods is wrong when he says that Bud Fensterwald and Dick

Sprague did not believe her story. She had long discussions with both

of them in person, and they indicated NO disbelief but support. If John

has proof to the contrary, he should post it.

Jack

Jack, I have made numerous reference's to the book by Trask,

so that you can read the book yourself for all those whom doubt me

And after numerous times, I ask you if you would like to view

the Harrision interview. At least you were honest enough to say

you have never seen it unlke another researcher whom I guessing

has never seen his interview. I even told you I would quote from

the interview (all granting if I'n not dealing with copyright issues),

and you never responded to that question. Or the questions above.

You told me that another forum member sent to Oliver the complete

thread. I'm sure I know whom this member is even when I ask him

NOT TO because it could mess up the contact with you and Oliver.

Amazing and "SAD".

This has been very one sided, I ask those researchers to reply

to my questions and I hear mostly silence. I asked if anyone of

these two reseachers have seen the Harrison inteview and at least

one says no and the other one remains silent. Once again as I have

previous stated that the Harrision interview is important.

I have public information posted on me on this forum, so I guess

I'm doing something right that makes me very proud. I still stand

behind my quote of three years ago, if you do not follow the accept

lines of the government critics you are a outcast.

Jack and every one else. I guess that I will just save the questions

for when Oliver goes to her conference?

To all those who contacted me by private email and forum email

I THANK YOU.

I would still like to have more researchers contact me. Private

and forum email would be the best.

Thanks again,

john w

The "conference" you keep referring to is a Rotary Club meeting

that Bev is attending at the request of a friend in Canada. It is NOT a

"conference", much less HER conference. Someone has told

her that you plan to attend. She looks forward to meeting you

and answering your questions. You will find her a charming person

and her story truthful. She will show slides of events in Dealey

Plaza, including all the known images of her, which I furnished

to her several years ago. Have a nice trip.

Jack

PS...attached is a photo of Bev singing AMAZING GRACE on the

knoll during the fortieth anniversary gathering.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Jack White

[Guest John Woods]

Beverly just sent me a copy of a DICK SPRAGUE letter to Louis Stokes

regarding THE BEVERLY OLIVER FILM. This is a clear indication that

Sprague believed her story. He did NOT ask for the "Babushka Lady Film".

Jack

Fensterwald, "She said she took a color movie at about where the

"Babushka Lady" was located but couldn't pick herself

out whith any definiteness in .. photos. Next day

she turned undeveloped film over to two agents who

claimed to be federal, but who she said dressed like

Texas Rangers. Didn't get names or receipts. Has

never seen film since. Not much we can do with this

in my view." To Richard Sprague 7/9/71

Jack, was it in 1968, she had a two hour meeting with Richard Nixon?

J.Gary Shaw stated in his letter that Beverly could not initially pick herself

out in images showing the B-Lady and other individuals in the Plaza infield

on the 22n. She could not remember when she had changed her hair color to platinum blonde color which could have been after November 22, 1964 Shaws letter to Sprague 10/27/71.

By the late 1980's she stated she was wearing a wig on the 22nd.

Paul Hoch wrote a few of the HSCA member and refer to a number of

Olivers claims by Beverely, "which give her claim very low inherent

credibility" To Christopher J. Dodd on 4/3/1977

Chief Counsel Robert Blakey is quoted in the Dallas times Herald

story in 1979 regarding the existence by stating"...There is no higher

offical than me on ths staff of the Committee and know nothing about

the film." Article by Mack published in "The Continuing Inquiry" Volumne

#4 Number 6 released 1/22/1980 page 14.

For those interested, read the WC testimony of Carousel manger and bartender

Andy Armstrong and Fuby's friend and roomate, George Senator.

Investigators asked both of these men and showed them photographs of the

many mayn people who may have known Ruby or any one of the Carousel

employeess. They were told to specifically looked for people who would hang

aroun the Carousel to see if any of them had connections that should be

investigatived.

Oliver's name never came up, not once. Considering she spent soo much time

at the Club and seeing Ferrie, Oswald, (the French Tramp?) and Nixon downed

in Maimi, the underage singer and frequent vistor should have been remember.

Jack thanks for your help but we are talking time away from my original

post. The opinion poll. For those who do not what to used this forum

please contact me at

johnw291@yahoo.com

Jack, per your suggestion I may wait untill after her conference or maybe even

have the questions waiting for her at that location.

The Harrision view is on video tape. Thus, I will have to get permission or

just trying to take quotes from this video. As we have taken out time for

a exchange of information, I will wait till later to addressed this question. Or

you can direct your inquires to "The Sixth Floor Museum" which has this

incrediable interview!!!!!!

You accuesed Bud of having agency connections. Does that included

Richard Spargue, Jim Garrision and Bill Turner whom founded the

"Committee to Investigative Assassinations"? Also Bill turnner

and Fletcher Prouty? Letter of Sprague to Congressman Gonzalez.

Sorry more questions like the previous questions I have asked you.

Thanks Jack and Oliver for ALL YOUR TIME AND ASSISTANCE!

john w

ps

I just readed your last posting and would like to comment before signing

off the forum.

' "Someone has told her that you plan to attend" '. Jack, I have never,

ever, stated that I was going to attend the conference in person! PLEASE

ADVISE ME whom stated that for the record. Thanks

When I think of Babushka Lady I think of Oliver's story. Nothing more

than a quick reference. Like saying "JELLO" not meaning I going to buy

JELLO just the brand name of the product.

If I did go, maybe she can sign my copy of "Hot Blooded Woman".

john w

Edited September 15, 2006 by John Woods

[Jack White]

Again...there is NO conference. A local Rotary Club is

having an event at which Beverly and Aubrey Rike

have been invited to speak.

I have never heard of Beverly having a meeting with

Nixon that I can remember. Can you provide citations?

She was always blond (according to old photos). Why

do you say she changed her hair to blond? Attached:

Bev as a teen-ager.

Jack

Edited September 15, 2006 by Jack White

[Jack White]

A blond young Bev in a formal.

[Brian Smith]

A blond young Bev in a formal.

Not to go off topic, but I had a debate on another forum, with a group of so-called debunkers, about the Altgen's photo that clearly shows a man resembling Lucien Conein standing right next to the motorcade. They swore up and down that it didn't really look like Conein. I don't care what they think, I know what I can see with my own two eyes.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Brian Smith

[Jack White]

A blond young Bev in a formal.

Not to go off topic, but I had a debate on another forum, with a group of so-called debunkers, about the Altgen's photo that clearly shows a man resembling Lucien Conein standing right next to the motorcade. They swore up and down that it didn't really look like Conein. I don't care what they think, I know what I can see with my own two eyes.

Brian...I agree with you.

Jack

[Brian Smith]

If that's not him, then it's his exact look-alike. What are the odds that a man, bearing such a close resemblance to a military/CIA guy like Conein, would be photographed in Dealey Plaza at the moment of the assassination? Too strange to be a coincidence in my opinion. Didn't mean to hijack the thread. This subject deserves a discussion of it's own, so I will leave it at that.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Brian Smith

[John Dolva]

I think the fact that we don't have the B film today is a good reason to say that the Z film was not comprehensively altered, because if it was so undetectably altered as some suggest, then why haven't they released the supporting B version. They've had the B film for 43 years, time enough to produce a version to show anything they wish, surely?

So, they haven't, because it cannot be done. The B film is not here today because from where it was taken it showed something that proves particular Z film interpretations and disproves others. It shows something so convincingly that it would clearly point in the right direction.

[Guest John Woods]

Jack,

thanks for the images.

You have avoid some of my answers, questions

and point of discussion. I have tried to answer

your questions, answers and point of discussions

minus your last posting. Thanks for correcting

me regarding a "conference" and a "meeting".

We have taken up enough time and space at

this forum.

At this point I'm finish with the polling. Anyone

else who would like to place a last minute polling

please contact me a

johnw291@yahoo.com

Thanks Jack and Oliver and everyone else who

assisted.

john w

[Wim Dankbaar]

You told me that another forum member sent to Oliver the complete

thread. I'm sure I know whom this member is even when I ask him

NOT TO because it could mess up the contact with you and Oliver.

Amazing and "SAD".

That member is me, no need to guess or not speak it out. I just emailed her the link,a s I did to Timo Mikkonnen. I posted his answer. Amazing and SAD? You start a thread on a witness but are opposed to make her aware of it? What's amazing and sad now?

And how would Beverly being aware of your questions mess up any contact between Jack White and her? Didn't you want her to have the questions?

This has been very one sided, I ask those researchers to reply

to my questions and I hear mostly silence. I asked if anyone of

these two reseachers have seen the Harrison inteview and at least

one says no and the other one remains silent. Once again as I have

previous stated that the Harrision interview is important.

No I have not seen the Harrison interview. If you believe it is so destructive to Beverly's credibility, which you seem to suggest, why don't you post it, or at least give us the scoop?

I have public information posted on me on this forum, so I guess

I'm doing something right that makes me very proud.

? I don't follow your logic.

I still stand behind my quote of three years ago,

You mean that you don't believe her? That's fine, but it still would have been nice to give that candor right away. You haven't answered what your objective is with this research. One general advice though from researcher to researcher: If you can, always talk directly to the source. Not everyone is dead, you know. And some are actually willing to talk.

[William Kelly]

Whether or not Beverly Oliver is the Babuska Lady, I believe that she did accompany Jack Ruby to the Egyptian Lounge for a steak dinner with Lawrence Meyers on the night before the assassination, as detailed in my article Thursday Night at the Cabana Lounge, which is posted under the Jack Ruby Timeline thead in the JFK Seminars.

The Warren Report is wrong in saying that Ruby was accompanied by his business partner Ralph Paul, as one of the Campisi brothers testified.

In addition, Oliver said that she obtained the movie camera she used to film the assassination from a Larry Ronco, who worked at Kodak in New York state, and Ronco was hooked up with some Cubans in Dallas, angles that have never been properly explored.

BK

[Jack White]

Whether or not Beverly Oliver is the Babuska Lady, I believe that she did accompany Jack Ruby to the Egyptian Lounge for a steak dinner with Lawrence Meyers on the night before the assassination, as detailed in my article Thursday Night at the Cabana Lounge, which is posted under the Jack Ruby Timeline thead in the JFK Seminars.

The Warren Report is wrong in saying that Ruby was accompanied by his business partner Ralph Paul, as one of the Campisi brothers testified.

In addition, Oliver said that she obtained the movie camera she used to film the assassination from a Larry Ronco, who worked at Kodak in New York state, and Ronco was hooked up with some Cubans in Dallas, angles that have never been properly explored.

BK

Beverly, left, and Ronco, circled.

Jack

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Beverly, left, and Ronco, circled.

Jack

Jack,

I'm trying to find a way to ask this without seeming like a cad, but do you have any current photos of Beverly which show her legs from behind? Like perhaps Beverly wearing a skirt but facing away from the camera?

I think matching the shape of her calves with those of the B-Lady in the photos could be pertinent.

MV

[Jack White]

Beverly, left, and Ronco, circled.

Jack

Jack,

I'm trying to find a way to ask this without seeming like a cad, but do you have any current photos of Beverly which show her legs from behind? Like perhaps Beverly wearing a skirt but facing away from the camera?

I think matching the shape of her calves with those of the B-Lady in the photos could be pertinent.

MV

Mark...to put it politely, Beverly is no longer the slim young thing

she was as a teen. Remember, she was only 15 when she started

in show biz. She was performing at Pappy's Showland at an age

when she could not legally attend as a customer.

Jack

[Jack White]

I think the fact that we don't have the B film today is a good reason to say that the Z film was not comprehensively altered, because if it was so undetectably altered as some suggest, then why haven't they released the supporting B version. They've had the B film for 43 years, time enough to produce a version to show anything they wish, surely?

So, they haven't, because it cannot be done. The B film is not here today because from where it was taken it showed something that proves particular Z film interpretations and disproves others. It shows something so convincingly that it would clearly point in the right direction.

John...a few comments on your interesting posting:

...we do not know that the Z film was COMPREHENSIVELY altered. Perhaps only

small portions were altered so it would fit the official story. Evidence seems clear

that the LIMO STOP was removed, as an example.

....the Zfilm was not UNDETECTABLY altered. I refer you to the studies of Dr.

Costella at:

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...ntro/index.html

Costella points out numerous anomalies he DETECTED showing alteration.

Jack