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John Simkin: CIA Agent?


John Simkin
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John,

Thomas Graves beat me to it. You must be running a "limited hangout." Or I should "unlimited." The CIA is using you and your forum to so expose them in the JFK assassination that they will finally have to admit that they did it. Devilishly clever. But why such a long, drawn-out process? Well, spooks never seem to do things the easy way. They like to analyze, compartmentalize, hypnotize, marginalize, terrorize, and when possible (as with their drug running) capitalize. In this case, I guess they just want to put off confessing as long as they can, hoping that by the time they confess, most people just won't care anymore. (But isn't that already the case?)

Ron

they may not kill them any more but they don't kill them any less either

Excellent Evan! That's the mother of all comebacks.

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As you can see, I could be a CIA disinformation agent. However, if I was, would I make a posting like this?

I just love that last line :-) because that's precisely what you would do...wouldn't you? :cheers .

As Huntley said through his actions "If I killed the girls, would I be helping you look for them?".

How about Morales "If I'd anything to do with RFK's murder, would I really be at the hotel?"

Michael Corleone "If I was going to have him killed, would I have agreed to be Godfather to his child?"

Double bluff or truth.

The coward does it with a kiss, the brave man with a sword.

It really is a judgement call and that's where the confidence man earns his corn.

Truth is John, I don't know you from Adam. I certainly don't know nearly enough to say yay or nay to your membership of the CIA. I'd be disappointed though not shocked if you were; disappointed because you have gained a certain amount of my respect and trust. Similarly I'd be contented and not surprised if you weren't.

Anyhow, I love reading your posts, and those of all the researchers gathered here, for whom I have the greatest respect. I then try to form my own opinions, irrespective of the messenger.

Kindest Regards

Gary

Yeah, that last line of John's is a red flag isn't it?

In fact the single biggest red flag to me is an attempt by anybody to tell me what to think of them, or of a third party:

I accept your point about researchers who disagree with your theories spreading rumours about you being CIA. I therefore would not be surprised if people I have clashed with me in the past like Tim Gratz, Tim Carroll, Ashton Gray, Wim Danbaar, Tom Purvis, etc. put it around that I was CIA. As a result of their past history, they would probably not be believed.

The point being that I'll decide for myself what I think of people. It's insulting and suspicious to be told what to think. If John is trying to boost his own credibility by naming names, then he failed with me 'cause I don't appreciate those tactics. They're heavy handed, and frankly kinda catty, in addition to being unprofessional.

Whether it's CIA strategy (which I don't believe) or just bad judgement, it's a negative.

Now, since I've "clashed" with John will I see my name in the next edition of "rogue's gallery"?

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I have personally seen NO indication that Mr. Simkin is a agent of disinformation.

However, his partner seems intent on playing "bad cop" to John's "good cop."

A long-time JFK researcher whose opinion I respect disagrees and tells me

this is a CIA disinformation site, but more clever than the McAdams and Conway

forums by performing clever limited hangouts.

There ARE several disinformation agents at work here, and they are given free

rein. But I have never detected anything except good research from John himself.

My only question is the volume of his work and the time he devotes to the forum.

One sign of disinformation is that the perpetrator devotes more time to research,

writing and posting than there are hours in the day. There are at least three here

who exhibit that trait. Some seem to have more information than they could have

come up with alone, as if someone is feeding them a mass of research, facts,

documents etc.

I doubt that John is a disinfo agent; if so, he is the most clever I have encountered.

My biggest complaint is that little is done to deter all of the obvious agents.

Jack

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Yup, "Divide and Conquer." Works like a champ. Anyone ever see the movie "Matewan"? It's about West Virginia coal companies versus miners trying to form a union. The whole plot is about the company's divide and conquer tactics.

I can't say if they worked 'cause that would be a spoiler. :cheers I will say that the movie depicts a true historical episode accurately.

Good God. I possibly am the among the world's most adament proponents for keeping forum threads on-topic, and I am about to violate that right here, right now, in the most blatant and unforgivable way. I simply cannot allow what you just posted about to go unremarked, and if any forum admin would like to break this out into a separate thread, I would be completely amenable and appropriately chastised. But I simply feel that I have to get the following brief snippet of timeline posted and ask you if the event you're referring to with a "West Virginia coal company" possibly correlates with the following, which just happens to involve a West Virgiina location in June 1973 (at the height of the Watergate hearings), followed shortly by direct involvement with a "West Virginia coal company" from late October 1974 through about mid-1975, to wit:

  • Sunday, 10 c. June 1973
    CIA's Richard Kennett takes his wife and children on a "drive into the coutryside" to check out Bill O'Donnell's accounting of the coordinates that Scientology OTs Pat Price and Ingo Swann had remotely viewed. [To make this little weekend trip, Kennett has to drive into the Blue Ridge Mountains in West Virginia—Ed.] Surprise, surprise: "a few miles from his friend's cabin," he discovers a dirt road with a government "No Trespassing" sign, and some satellite antennas in the background—"obviously some kind of secret installation." It seems to match many of the descriptions provided by Price and Swann.
    Monday, 11 c. June 1973
    CIA's Richard Kennett looks up "an official who he thought might know about" the strange secret base he and his wife and kids have "discovered" on their weekend drive to West Virginia, and gives the unnamed "official" Pat Price's and Ingo Swann's descriptions from their "coordinate remote viewing" sessions.
    Wednesday, 13 c. June 1973
    CIA's Richard Kennett finds himself at the center of an intense and hostile security investigation over the "coordinate remote viewing" descriptions of Pat Price and Ingo Swann of the secret installation in West Virginia. The investigation soon extends to Price, Swann, and Hal Puthoff at SRI. It seems that the facility, ostensibly a U.S. Navy communications base, was actually a highly sensitive NSA installation, manned by cryptographers and others, engaged in intercepting international telephone communications and the control of U.S. spy satellites.
    Friday, 9 November 1973
    CIA's K. Green issues a report on the 1 June 1973 (see) coordinate remote viewing experiment with Ingo Swann and Pat Price that had targetted a secret NSA installation in West Virginia. It is cited as: "K. Green; LSD/OSI; Memorandum for the Record; Subject: Verification of Remote Viewing Experiments at Stanford Research Institute; 9 November 1973. (SECRET)." Reportedly, the "new directors" of CIA's Office of Technical Services and Office of Research and Development are favorably impressed.
    Tuesday, 15 c. October 1974
    Pat Price departs SRI. He is going to work for a coal company in Huntington, West Virginia, telling Hal Puthoff that he intends to return in a year with a fortune earned from psychically locating coal deposits, and with which he intends to fund further psychic research with Puthoff. What he doesn't tell Puthoff is that he is also going to be working directly for CIA.
    Tuesday, 1 c. July 1975
    Pat Price has reportedly "finished his stint with the coal company in West Virginia." The referenced source makes the curious observation: "The job hadn't been a cover for his CIA work. He had actually worked for the enterprise." For some reason, though—unexplained—he charters a plane around this time and flies Ken Kress, Richard Kennett, and "some other CIA officials" out to the coal company, in Huntington, West Virginia. No reason is given why CIA officials would be flying out to meet Price at a coal company.
    Tuesday, 15 c. July 1975
    Pat Price leaves from Huntington, West Virginia an a several-week trip west. He first "stops off" in Washington, D.C. [reason unknown]. According to a reconstruction from other data (see chronology entry for 16 c. July 1975), Price has dinner in Washington, where "someone seems" to slip something into his coffee.
    Wednesday, 16 c. July 1975
    Pat Price continues his trip west. He goes on to Utah "for a brief visit with his son," and on from there to Las Vegas [reason ostensibly because he loves gambling]. Price is planning to go on from Vegas, after a few days, to SRI, then to Los Angeles to visit his wife. In Vegas, Price is accompanied by an old friend named Bill Alvarez and his wife, Judy. The three check into the Stardust Hotel, rest, and go into the restaurant for dinner.
    Price begins to complain that he doesn't feel good, and ostensibly tells the Alvarezes that someone "had seemed to slip something into his coffee" at dinner in Washington "the night before." He seems serious about it. Price soon feels so bad that he goes up to his room to lie down. He feels even worse, and calls the Alvarezes. They come to his room and find him on the bed in cardiac arrest. Bill Alvarez calls paramedics, who try without success to resuscitate Price with defibrillator paddles. Price is declared dead in the local hospital's emergency room.
    Reportedly, a mysterious "friend" of Price's turns up at the emergency room with "a briefcase full of his medical records," which, along with the statments of the emergency room's physician, apparently are enough to waive an autopsy—which would normally be performed on an out-of-towner who had died outside the hospital. [NOTE: CIA'S Richard Kennett allegedly later tried to "track down" the mystery man with the briefcase, but, reportedly, "never found out who he was, or whether he even existed."]

Anybody near Langley? Can someone check to see if actual cracks are starting to appear in the walls and foundation and if greenish stuff is starting to ooze out like putrifaction?

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray
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As you can see, I could be a CIA disinformation agent. However, if I was, would I make a posting like this?

I just love that last line :-) because that's precisely what you would do...wouldn't you? :cheers .

As Huntley said through his actions "If I killed the girls, would I be helping you look for them?".

How about Morales "If I'd anything to do with RFK's murder, would I really be at the hotel?"

Michael Corleone "If I was going to have him killed, would I have agreed to be Godfather to his child?"

Double bluff or truth.

The coward does it with a kiss, the brave man with a sword.

It really is a judgement call and that's where the confidence man earns his corn.

Truth is John, I don't know you from Adam. I certainly don't know nearly enough to say yay or nay to your membership of the CIA. I'd be disappointed though not shocked if you were; disappointed because you have gained a certain amount of my respect and trust. Similarly I'd be contented and not surprised if you weren't.

Anyhow, I love reading your posts, and those of all the researchers gathered here, for whom I have the greatest respect. I then try to form my own opinions, irrespective of the messenger.

Kindest Regards

Gary

Yeah, that last line of John's is a red flag isn't it?

In fact the single biggest red flag to me is an attempt by anybody to tell me what to think of them, or of a third party:

I accept your point about researchers who disagree with your theories spreading rumours about you being CIA. I therefore would not be surprised if people I have clashed with me in the past like Tim Gratz, Tim Carroll, Ashton Gray, Wim Danbaar, Tom Purvis, etc. put it around that I was CIA. As a result of their past history, they would probably not be believed.

The point being that I'll decide for myself what I think of people. It's insulting and suspicious to be told what to think. If John is trying to boost his own credibility by naming names, then he failed with me 'cause I don't appreciate those tactics. They're heavy handed, and frankly kinda catty, in addition to being unprofessional.

Whether it's CIA strategy (which I don't believe) or just bad judgement, it's a negative.

Now, since I've "clashed" with John will I see my name in the next edition of "rogue's gallery"?

In event that one can not discredit the presented facts, there is little left other than an attempt to discredit the individual who presents the facts.

Usually a "losing" debate tactic among the more knowledgeable and educated.

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One sign of disinformation is that the perpetrator devotes more time to research, writing and posting than there are hours in the day. There are at least three here who exhibit that trait.

Some might count you among them, Jack. :cheers:D

Some seem to have more information than they could have come up with alone, as if someone is feeding them a mass of research, facts, documents etc.

I wish you wouldn't be so coy, Jack, and would just come out and say who you think such disinformation agents are. I've made no bones about my own opinion on that count.

And speaking of "count," I have no idea whether you are counting me in that august number, but I am going to point out for the record here—again—that I have made a matter of record the rather extraordinary database of over 10,000 records that I've had the good fortune to have had made available to me. And I've made absolutely no secret of the fact that quite a few people have contributed over the course of many years bringing the thing into existence, some of whom continue to update and add to it constantly.

Not only have I made a record of this primary research tool that I use, I've actually posted a copy of the exact same database engine itself populated with a few JFK-related records, and urged, begged, pleaded with people to use it to timeline the JFK assassination data, in the topic I started: JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts.

I've just used that very database (the full version, not the limited JFK-related version I posted) to extract the West Virginia-Pat Price-CIA-NSA timeline that I just posted in response to Myra. It took me all of ten minutes, maybe, to search on "Pat Price" and "West Virginia," sort the found records by date, export the found records as a tab-delimited text file, and format it for posting with a few words of introduction. Such is the power of the thing, which I've tried desperately to get others to understand, and to use the damn thing, which has been freely supplied in the topic linked to above with no strings for anyone who wants to pursue it and use it any way they see fit.

So far, the only person who has demonstrated any real interest is Bill Kelly, who, to his eternal credit, is trying to get the many random timelines all compiled and into such a useful form. I even was in touch briefly with the Mary Farrell Foundation, and offered to do anything I could to get her chronologies converted for import to that engine. I supplied all the technical information that could make it possible—and then that contact went dead as a hammer. Don't ask me why.

So my own "research methods" are about as secret as Toys'R'Us locations. And since I have spent much of my life developing a career in which I'm my own boss and make my own schedule, I'll invest as much of my time as I choose in any pursuit I choose, without apology or requests for permission (and also stir the soup on my way through the kitchen).

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray
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Guest Richard Bittikofer
I had this email from a fellow JFK researcher this morning that included the following passage. "This is where I have to tell you that a researcher of some repute told me just two days ago that you are CIA."

The most interesting aspect of this is the phrase "a researcher of some repute". This is not the first time I have been told about this CIA smear. One friend actually named the person who told him I was a CIA disinformation agent. To my surprise he was a member of this forum who I consider to be one of the leading researchers into the JFK assassination. I imagine that most researchers would have believed the story if they heard it from him. The point is that I am convinced that this person is not CIA. He is also extremely intelligent, yet he appears to genuinely believe this story.

I suppose I should take it as a compliment that those opposed to the investigation into the JFK assassination have felt the need to smear me in this way. To be truthful, if I was in charge of Operation Mockingbird, I would launch a smear campaign against me. Not because of the quality of my work but because of the influence that I have on JFK research. I am talking about this forum and the high-ranking that my JFK website has achieved in the search-engines.

What I cannot understand is what these people who believe that I am a CIA agent consider what my motivation is?

I would be grateful if any other members of the forum have heard these CIA stories could post on this thread. I would be interested in hearing the names of the people who told them these stories (by email if you prefer not to embarrass the person concerned). I am particularly interested in what my CIA "motivation" is for creating my JFK website and running this forum.

The Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 imposes criminal penalties on those who have authorized access to classified information and intentionally disclose names of "covert agents." Those who do not have authorized access to classified information--- such as journalists,etc.---may be subject to penalties if they engage in a "pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents...with reason to believe that such activities would impair or impede the foreign intelligence activities of the United States."
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"CIA overthrew Nixon because he was gonna blow the whistle on their scientology research." —Pat Speer

Is this an actual quote?

Absolutely. Speer made it and tried to attribute it to me, which was a complete bald-faced lie. I merely correctly attributed the quote to the sole author (Pat Speer) and added it to my sig. He can make it go away from my sig if he'll just answer the question I've asked him about 15 times in this thread in the Watergate forum: The Diem Cables. That's the thread where he made up the statement and tried to paint me with it.

He also ought to apologize publically for his cheap, underhanded trick, but I don't even require such a rightfully owed apology. He just should answer the question he's been evading. It's all in that thread. Seven pages of it.

Asthon

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One sign of disinformation is that the perpetrator devotes more time to research, writing and posting than there are hours in the day. There are at least three here who exhibit that trait.

Some might count you among them, Jack. :ph34r::D

Some seem to have more information than they could have come up with alone, as if someone is feeding them a mass of research, facts, documents etc.

I wish you wouldn't be so coy, Jack, and would just come out and say who you think such disinformation agents are. I've made no bones about my own opinion on that count.

And speaking of "count," I have no idea whether you are counting me in that august number, but I am going to point out for the record here—again—that I have made a matter of record the rather extraordinary database of over 10,000 records that I've had the good fortune to have had made available to me. And I've made absolutely no secret of the fact that quite a few people have contributed over the course of many years bringing the thing into existence, some of whom continue to update and add to it constantly.

Not only have I made a record of this primary research tool that I use, I've actually posted a copy of the exact same database engine itself populated with a few JFK-related records, and urged, begged, pleaded with people to use it to timeline the JFK assassination data, in the topic I started: JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts.

I've just used that very database (the full version, not the limited JFK-related version I posted) to extract the West Virginia-Pat Price-CIA-NSA timeline that I just posted in response to Myra. It took me all of ten minutes, maybe, to search on "Pat Price" and "West Virginia," sort the found records by date, export the found records as a tab-delimited text file, and format it for posting with a few words of introduction. Such is the power of the thing, which I've tried desperately to get others to understand, and to use the damn thing, which has been freely supplied in the topic linked to above with no strings for anyone who wants to pursue it and use it any way they see fit.

So far, the only person who has demonstrated any real interest is Bill Kelly, who, to his eternal credit, is trying to get the many random timelines all compiled and into such a useful form. I even was in touch briefly with the Mary Farrell Foundation, and offered to do anything I could to get her chronologies converted for import to that engine. I supplied all the technical information that could make it possible—and then that contact went dead as a hammer. Don't ask me why.

So my own "research methods" are about as secret as Toys'R'Us locations. And since I have spent much of my life developing a career in which I'm my own boss and make my own schedule, I'll invest as much of my time as I choose in any pursuit I choose, without apology or requests for permission (and also stir the soup on my way through the kitchen).

Ashton Gray

At risk of sounding paranoid, it would be assumed that I too have a "reserved seat" in the Dis-information/CIA Boat".

If so, then it would appear that this would leave only one seat left available.

Bill Miller, come on down!

By the way Jack, although I can not speak for others, my homework and research was done long, long ago.

Therefore, I do not have to have anyone "feeding" me the information as we go along.

Had you ever taken the time and effort to either read and understand the WC Report, or at least have someone explain it to you, then perhaps you too would have known were to look for many of the answers to the JFK assassination, back in the 1990 time frame or so.

The Internet, coupled with the computer & scanner, along with virtually the entire WC on line, merely makes it quite simple to locate and provide the information of which some 13 to 15 years ago I made many, many copies of and thereafter tabulated in various folders.

It's called "Research" Jack. Perhaps you should try it some day and hopefully suprise yourself as regards what one can actually learn if they try.

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One sign of disinformation is that the perpetrator devotes more time to research, writing and posting than there are hours in the day. There are at least three here who exhibit that trait.

Some might count you among them, Jack. :ph34r::D

Some seem to have more information than they could have come up with alone, as if someone is feeding them a mass of research, facts, documents etc.

I wish you wouldn't be so coy, Jack, and would just come out and say who you think such disinformation agents are. I've made no bones about my own opinion on that count.

And speaking of "count," I have no idea whether you are counting me in that august number, but I am going to point out for the record here—again—that I have made a matter of record the rather extraordinary database of over 10,000 records that I've had the good fortune to have had made available to me. And I've made absolutely no secret of the fact that quite a few people have contributed over the course of many years bringing the thing into existence, some of whom continue to update and add to it constantly.

Not only have I made a record of this primary research tool that I use, I've actually posted a copy of the exact same database engine itself populated with a few JFK-related records, and urged, begged, pleaded with people to use it to timeline the JFK assassination data, in the topic I started: JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts.

I've just used that very database (the full version, not the limited JFK-related version I posted) to extract the West Virginia-Pat Price-CIA-NSA timeline that I just posted in response to Myra. It took me all of ten minutes, maybe, to search on "Pat Price" and "West Virginia," sort the found records by date, export the found records as a tab-delimited text file, and format it for posting with a few words of introduction. Such is the power of the thing, which I've tried desperately to get others to understand, and to use the damn thing, which has been freely supplied in the topic linked to above with no strings for anyone who wants to pursue it and use it any way they see fit.

So far, the only person who has demonstrated any real interest is Bill Kelly, who, to his eternal credit, is trying to get the many random timelines all compiled and into such a useful form. I even was in touch briefly with the Mary Farrell Foundation, and offered to do anything I could to get her chronologies converted for import to that engine. I supplied all the technical information that could make it possible—and then that contact went dead as a hammer. Don't ask me why.

So my own "research methods" are about as secret as Toys'R'Us locations. And since I have spent much of my life developing a career in which I'm my own boss and make my own schedule, I'll invest as much of my time as I choose in any pursuit I choose, without apology or requests for permission (and also stir the soup on my way through the kitchen).

Ashton Gray

At risk of sounding paranoid, it would be assumed that I too have a "reserved seat" in the Dis-information/CIA Boat".

If so, then it would appear that this would leave only one seat left available.

Bill Miller, come on down!

By the way Jack, although I can not speak for others, my homework and research was done long, long ago.

Therefore, I do not have to have anyone "feeding" me the information as we go along.

Had you ever taken the time and effort to either read and understand the WC Report, or at least have someone explain it to you, then perhaps you too would have known were to look for many of the answers to the JFK assassination, back in the 1990 time frame or so.

The Internet, coupled with the computer & scanner, along with virtually the entire WC on line, merely makes it quite simple to locate and provide the information of which some 13 to 15 years ago I made many, many copies of and thereafter tabulated in various folders.

It's called "Research" Jack. Perhaps you should try it some day and hopefully suprise yourself as regards what one can actually learn if they try.

I think that we need to remember that even the most agenda driven individual can stumble over the truth. I found at Homicide that almost every witness had a speck of gold on them somewhere and sometimes it led to the mother lode.

I haven't been able to decipher Garrison to my own satisfaction, but he had find some interesting things-I once had a jury convict the right guy of Murder 2 for all the wrong reasons. We have much more in common than we do in disagreement-if everyone involved in genuinely looking for the truth-I have much more in common with an individual who sincerely believes Oswald did it alone than I do with the individual who see's well known Agency folks with rifles all over the Plaza. I personally believe elements of the Agency were involved, but no one who could have been traced back to the Agency would have been there and possibly arrested through bad, dumb luck.

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One sign of disinformation is that the perpetrator devotes more time to research, writing and posting than there are hours in the day. There are at least three here who exhibit that trait.

Some might count you among them, Jack. :ph34r::D

Some seem to have more information than they could have come up with alone, as if someone is feeding them a mass of research, facts, documents etc.

I wish you wouldn't be so coy, Jack, and would just come out and say who you think such disinformation agents are. I've made no bones about my own opinion on that count.

And speaking of "count," I have no idea whether you are counting me in that august number, but I am going to point out for the record here—again—that I have made a matter of record the rather extraordinary database of over 10,000 records that I've had the good fortune to have had made available to me. And I've made absolutely no secret of the fact that quite a few people have contributed over the course of many years bringing the thing into existence, some of whom continue to update and add to it constantly.

Not only have I made a record of this primary research tool that I use, I've actually posted a copy of the exact same database engine itself populated with a few JFK-related records, and urged, begged, pleaded with people to use it to timeline the JFK assassination data, in the topic I started: JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts.

I've just used that very database (the full version, not the limited JFK-related version I posted) to extract the West Virginia-Pat Price-CIA-NSA timeline that I just posted in response to Myra. It took me all of ten minutes, maybe, to search on "Pat Price" and "West Virginia," sort the found records by date, export the found records as a tab-delimited text file, and format it for posting with a few words of introduction. Such is the power of the thing, which I've tried desperately to get others to understand, and to use the damn thing, which has been freely supplied in the topic linked to above with no strings for anyone who wants to pursue it and use it any way they see fit.

So far, the only person who has demonstrated any real interest is Bill Kelly, who, to his eternal credit, is trying to get the many random timelines all compiled and into such a useful form. I even was in touch briefly with the Mary Farrell Foundation, and offered to do anything I could to get her chronologies converted for import to that engine. I supplied all the technical information that could make it possible—and then that contact went dead as a hammer. Don't ask me why.

So my own "research methods" are about as secret as Toys'R'Us locations. And since I have spent much of my life developing a career in which I'm my own boss and make my own schedule, I'll invest as much of my time as I choose in any pursuit I choose, without apology or requests for permission (and also stir the soup on my way through the kitchen).

Ashton Gray

At risk of sounding paranoid, it would be assumed that I too have a "reserved seat" in the Dis-information/CIA Boat".

If so, then it would appear that this would leave only one seat left available.

Bill Miller, come on down!

By the way Jack, although I can not speak for others, my homework and research was done long, long ago.

Therefore, I do not have to have anyone "feeding" me the information as we go along.

Had you ever taken the time and effort to either read and understand the WC Report, or at least have someone explain it to you, then perhaps you too would have known were to look for many of the answers to the JFK assassination, back in the 1990 time frame or so.

The Internet, coupled with the computer & scanner, along with virtually the entire WC on line, merely makes it quite simple to locate and provide the information of which some 13 to 15 years ago I made many, many copies of and thereafter tabulated in various folders.

It's called "Research" Jack. Perhaps you should try it some day and hopefully suprise yourself as regards what one can actually learn if they try.

I think that we need to remember that even the most agenda driven individual can stumble over the truth. I found at Homicide that almost every witness had a speck of gold on them somewhere and sometimes it led to the mother lode.

I haven't been able to decipher Garrison to my own satisfaction, but he did find some interesting things-I once had a jury convict the right guy of Murder 2 for all the wrong reasons. We have much more in common than we do in disagreement-if everyone involved in genuinely looking for the truth-I have much more in common with an individual who sincerely believes Oswald did it alone than I do with the individual who see's well known Agency folks with rifles all over the Plaza. I personally believe elements of the Agency were involved, but no one who could have been traced back to the Agency would have been there and possibly arrested through bad, dumb luck.

Edited by Evan Marshall
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If there is a strategy behind the allegations, we're possibly falling for it...

Since this morning, we've racked up three pages of posts (perhaps 4 when I add this one), and nearly 700 views. Not only that, but we've got people very close to "calling each other out". If the tactic is diversionary and "divide and conquer" it appears to be working...

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Guest Richard Bittikofer
If there is a strategy behind the allegations, we're possibly falling for it...

Since this morning, we've racked up three pages of posts (perhaps 4 when I add this one), and nearly 700 views. Not only that, but we've got people very close to "calling each other out". If the tactic is diversionary and "divide and conquer" it appears to be working...

You kill a dragon not by cutting off its tail; but, by cutting off its head! Edited by Richard Bittikofer
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