Easy shot...1963--Tree no problem

[Guest Richard Bittikofer]

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

Seems to me that tree has been recently - 'pruned'?

Is it possible to date this photograph? It looks like it was taken in the late 50s early 60s.

Does anyone know when the Hertz sign was first erected?

Can anyone identify the makes of the cars seen in the picture?

These two facts may give a clue to the age of the image.

EBC

Edited December 8, 2006 by Eugene B. Connolly

[Michael G. Smith]

Seems to me that tree has been recently - 'pruned'?

EBC

Rich, whats the approx. date on the photo? Is it right after the assassination? Personally i dont believe the trees had much effect on any of the shooters. As an earleir post pointed out, there may have been at least one shooter from one of the TSBD windows, but I believe there were roof shooters, not only from the TSBD, but possibly the Dal-Tex, Records, and Courts buildings. As Ashton pointed out, very possible shooter from inside the Courts building. As anyone who has any knowledge about professional killers, they are not going to even take a chance trying to shoot anywhere close to [or through] a tree. Anywhere above the 5th floor, i would think [from being there and looking out of those windows not long ago] there would have had a clear shot. Professional hit men know what they are doing, and dont make mistakes such as hitting a tree. A hit such as that, they would not send a boy, to do a mans job, if you will. Considering, the chances of hitting Jackie, or Nellie, would have been a very risky shot shooting around/or close to a tree. Hitting one of them would have been THE most horrific things to have happen. Alot of people can speculate that one or more of the shots fired hit one of the Oaks, and was deflected, but i would personally think that the errant shots were diversions of some type. Just my opinion, FWIW.

thanks-smitty

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Seems to me that tree has been recently - 'pruned'?

EBC

Then, in that regards, the actual date of this photo may be of critical significance.

Mr. Robert West informed me, while visiting at his home in Dallas, that on the day after he completed the survey work for the WC, that he left his office in the County Clerk's bldg. and returned to Dealy Plaza to get some additional measurements.

During this, he observed that members of the WC re-enactment group were cutting and removing limbs from the top of the Live Oak tree which is located directll in front of the sixth floor window of the TSDB.

This photo, if date verification can be made, could be the "physical" evidence/proof which would serve to support the statements which Mr. West made to me back in the 1990's.

[Guest Richard Bittikofer]

Seems to me that tree has been recently - 'pruned'?

EBC

Rich, whats the approx. date on the photo? Is it right after the assassination? Personally i dont believe the trees had much effect on any of the shooters. As an earleir post pointed out, there may have been at least one shooter from one of the TSBD windows, but I believe there were roof shooters, not only from the TSBD, but possibly the Dal-Tex, Records, and Courts buildings. As Ashton pointed out, very possible shooter from inside the Courts building. As anyone who has any knowledge about professional killers, they are not going to even take a chance trying to shoot anywhere close to [or through] a tree. Anywhere above the 5th floor, i would think [from being there and looking out of those windows not long ago] there would have had a clear shot. Professional hit men know what they are doing, and dont make mistakes such as hitting a tree. A hit such as that, they would not send a boy, to do a mans job, if you will. Considering, the chances of hitting Jackie, or Nellie, would have been a very risky shot shooting around/or close to a tree. Hitting one of them would have been THE most horrific things to have happen. Alot of people can speculate that one or more of the shots fired hit one of the Oaks, and was deflected, but i would personally think that the errant shots were diversions of some type. Just my opinion, FWIW.

thanks-smitty

Smitty, the frame was extracted from the film "The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald" produced in 1964. The movie was surpressed due to the nature of content. And was not made available to the public until years later.

Close up.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Richard Bittikofer

[William O'Neil]

It all depends on what location the Limo was when the first shot was fired, the WC was aware of the problem from the start.

[Guest Richard Bittikofer]

You are exactly right William!

[Robin Unger]

Bell Frame:

[Evan Marshall]

Bell Frame:

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost.

www.stoppingpower.net

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Bell Frame:

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost.

www.stoppingpower.net

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-

I'm always amused when people claim that "Sniper" training is required in order to hit an extremely slow moving target at a range of 68 yards (204 feet) or less.

Most 12 to 13 year old's down here in S. Mississippi can accomplish that, and do, each time that dear season opens.

P.S. It cost LHO his life!

P.P.S. Shortest distance which LHO qualilfied at in the USMC was 200 yards, of which he shot in the UPPER EXPERT range of qualification.

[Evan Marshall]

Bell Frame:

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost.

www.stoppingpower.net

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-

I'm always amused when people claim that "Sniper" training is required in order to hit an extremely slow moving target at a range of 68 yards (204 feet) or less.

Most 12 to 13 year old's down here in S. Mississippi can accomplish that, and do, each time that dear season opens.

P.S. It cost LHO his life!

P.P.S. Shortest distance which LHO qualilfied at in the USMC was 200 yards, of which he shot in the UPPER EXPERT range of qualification.

shooting at a known distance at a stationary target is nothing like shooting at a target that's moving away from you-there's no indication Oswald had ever shot a rifle at a human target in the past-how come Carlos Hathcock couldn't do it? How come every body talks about how easy it is-talk is easy-being on the rifle when its for real isn't.

[Myra Bronstein]

Bell Frame:

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost.

www.stoppingpower.net

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-

I'm always amused when people claim that "Sniper" training is required in order to hit an extremely slow moving target at a range of 68 yards (204 feet) or less.

Most 12 to 13 year old's down here in S. Mississippi can accomplish that, and do, each time that dear season opens.

P.S. It cost LHO his life!

P.P.S. Shortest distance which LHO qualilfied at in the USMC was 200 yards, of which he shot in the UPPER EXPERT range of qualification.

With a bolt action rifle. Let's not leave that part out Thomas. Even us non-snipers know that's significant in slowing down a shooter.

[John Dolva]

a'noon 11/22/63 (image)

[Charles Black]

Yes Evan & Myra

A scared 24 year old boy with a questionably operable specimen of an M.C. rifle....which he very likely had never fired or practiced with. A boy so intent on assassinating the most powerful man on earth, who had the financial means to buy a better weapon....who chose not to, out of frugality ? ....

who went on his mission without a fully loaded magazine....an optical sight that had not been zeroed in....or thru the use of iron sights while not taking the one minute required to remove the scope, which would have made the iron sights more practical. He placed himself in a position from which he should have expected the immediate return of automatic weapons fire.

As he kneeled there in his confined and awkward position with the sound of the crowds outside, the fear would have his heart in his throat beating so fast that he would have thought that it was loud enough to be heard on the street.....nervous sweat rolling down in his eyes along with the acrid electrical taste of fear in his mouth.....his own death most likely only seconds away.....

Is this really what some imagined happened ? And despite all, he is assumed to have scored at least two hits out of three, in barely the amount of time that it would have taken to rechamber the rounds ?

Is this what you lone nut / single assassin intellectuals have been telling the world for 43 years ? and expecting cognitively unimpaired persons to even consider this ? ? ?

This is so assinine that I even feel foolish repeating it !

And this is "but the tip of the icegerg" in the lone nut mania !

Charlie Black

[John Dolva]

the surreality of that scenario continues mere seconds later with him sipping a coke when a cop confronts him with a gun and dismisses him as unimportant. Then on to killing a cop, and then, to finish off, a visit to the movies. Then a change in the newly acquired blood lust by just sitting around, with a fully loaded revolver, while cops in plain sight 'sneak' up on him.

Edited December 7, 2006 by John Dolva