Grandmother's on the Roof

[Mark Knight]

Bill, et al:

RE: the WTC and 9/11, right after the incident I seemed to recall reading, years before, about gold bullion being stored in the basement of the WTC for some sort of trading purposes. Some Google research afterwards came up with a bit of research similar to this one:

WTC Gold...not all recovered

If 9/11 was a setup, it looks like it might have been a cover for a major gold heist...something like $1 billion there on 9/10, but only $230 million recovered. And some of the recovered gold was found already loaded on trucks?? Sounds like the heist was underway some time before the planes hit, in my opinion...otherwise, why wasn't the full $1 billion found?

Somewthing to ponder, anyway...[i'd love to hear what someone like Hemming might have to say about this...talk about your ultimate cover for a bigtime robbery!] I think we may have discussed this before on the forum, but the search engine doesn't like my four-letter words [such as "gold"], so I can't find when that discussion might have been.

Mark, This sounds too much like an Ian Fleming 007 Goldfinger job, or more like the short story of Fleming's Octopussy, when secret service investigator James Bond visits a retired officer living on the North Shore Jamaica beach, and presents evidence of his obtaining Nazi gold during military ops in WWII.

Or is this the same plot as Kelly's Heros?

BK

Bill, I just figured that three-quarters of a BILLION dollars missing from the basement of the WTC might be slightly more significant than a few MILLION made on the NYSE from 9/11.

I stand corrected. Obviously, I shouldn't have bothered to stay awake in all those basic math classes...a few million being more significant than nearly a billion and all. Yeah, that's it...three quarters of a billion is chump change compared to the few MILLION they made on Wall Street.

I know it sounds like something from a movie plot. But the fact remains that the gold is missing...gold that was there the day before. Was it insured? I dunno...but if it was, perhaps that's why so little was said about it in the press. I don't see conspiracies everywhere, but I think a little "follow the money" here might yield some clues about what really happened at the WTC that day.

[Evan Marshall]

[quote

I spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.They really don't need another reason to hate us.

EM,

Have you read Peter Lance's Tripple Cross or know about Ali Mohamad? BK

no to the 1st and that's a fairly common name

left the Fed's and opened a gunshop and indoor range-approx the same hrs (80-90 a week) but atleast I get to sleep in my own bed and the dog's quit growling at me when I show up.

Well EM,

I live near Ft. Dix in Jersey and can hear the reservists on the range on the other side of the lake. My dad was Det Sgt./ Lt. PD Camden - (No. 1 Most Dangerous City in USA - 2 years in a row), worse than Detroit. Dix also has training pods for urban warfare and local Pineys are hired to play arabs.

Anyway, as PDS notes in his Dallas COPA talk - edited transcript to be posted shortly - Lance details the double-tripple agent career of Ali Mohamad - whose Egyptian Army unit was involved in the assassnation of Sadat. Ali Mo was trained at Ft. Bragg, returned to Egypt and was recruited by al Qaeda to come to USA as infiltrator and spy. He married Calf. women he met on flight over, enlisted in Army, became Sgt. and assigned to Special Ops training at Ft. Bragg. On leave he traveled to Brooklyn NY where he trained first al Qaeda cell in USA out of Blind Sheik's mosque in rifle, pistol and AK47, practicing in an open field on Long Island, as filmed by FBI.

One of Ali Mohamad's rifle range students assassinated Jewish rabbi Kahane, and when police went to his apartment in Jersey, they found USA Special Ops manuals that were traced to Ali Mo, who went on to scout Kenya embassy bombing sites and relocated OBL from Sudan to Afghanistan. He was an al Qaeda agent provatour and trainer while having an inept FBI "handler" and CIA guardians.

PDS compares him with similar attributes of LHO.

Like the fate of most serial killers, if standard police investigative techniques were followed and the Special Ops manuals found in the assassin's apartment were traced to Ali Mo at Ft. Bragg, the terrorist cell reponsible for the first WTC attack and 9/11 could have been exposed years earlier. And they would have been by honest cops not interfered with by inept FBI agents and CIA case officers who gave Ali Mo a pass.

While both Ali Mo and the Blind Sheik are in custody, their damage is done; both nurtured by US intelligence (Blind Sheik on CIA Passport), and not by OBM.

As a law enforcement officer who has worked with the feds, are the FBI just inept or are they part of the program? Thanks.

BK

sorry for the delay in responding. Actually had alot more contact with the FBI during my Detroit years than the time I spent in Arkansas and New Mexico. The Bureau is like any other large organizations-there are some sharp people, some real dunces, and the majority are in the middle. When assigned to Homicide I found their profiling work was generally quite good.

like any large organization, promotion and positive recognition is not always connected to doing a good job-I found while assigned to Homicide that the only thing worse than being wrong was being right when it went against the Bosses wishes or agenda.

the longer I spend as a published writer-hundred's of article and column segments in the law enforcement& firearms press and three controversial books on wound ballistics-the more skeptical I become of the written word. Trying to plow thru two books on the JFK assassination currently and its hard because of the authors ability to write-I think they're both on to something but they drag terribly.

I can't go into details re: 911 because my TS Clearance is still active and will be until late 2008 when it expires, but we were set to run several missions that day and had several in progress. Everything I saw and some of it was at very high levels was shock and surpise-I worked with these folks on an almost daily basis and their responses we're genuine. Saw nothing to indicate govt complicity.

the problem with intell work is similar to doing criminal investigations-the people with intimate knowledge of criminal activity are not going to be a Scoutmaster or Mormon Missionary-you are forced to deal with the realy nasty people. I used to say that a reliable informant was somebody I had in the back of a van with a submachine gun pointed at their head.

I'm not a big, broad conspiracy believer-were JFK, RFK, MLK assassinationed by conspiracies-yes-obvioulsy, but people who keep seeing folks like Morales behind every tree have to understand that I know some of his contemporaries and no one with a direct connect to the Agency would have put themselves in a postion to get grabbed by some over eager cop or caught up in some other bad, dumb luck event.

[William Kelly]

[quote

I spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.They really don't need another reason to hate us.

EM,

Have you read Peter Lance's Tripple Cross or know about Ali Mohamad? BK

no to the 1st and that's a fairly common name

left the Fed's and opened a gunshop and indoor range-approx the same hrs (80-90 a week) but atleast I get to sleep in my own bed and the dog's quit growling at me when I show up.

sorry for the delay in responding. Actually had alot more contact with the FBI during my Detroit years than the time I spent in Arkansas and New Mexico. The Bureau is like any other large organizations-there are some sharp people, some real dunces, and the majority are in the middle. When assigned to Homicide I found their profiling work was generally quite good.

like any large organization, promotion and positive recognition is not always connected to doing a good job-I found while assigned to Homicide that the only thing worse than being wrong was being right when it went against the Bosses wishes or agenda.

the longer I spend as a published writer-hundred's of article and column segments in the law enforcement& firearms press and three controversial books on wound ballistics-the more skeptical I become of the written word. Trying to plow thru two books on the JFK assassination currently and its hard because of the authors ability to write-I think they're both on to something but they drag terribly.

I can't go into details re: 911 because my TS Clearance is still active and will be until late 2008 when it expires, but we were set to run several missions that day and had several in progress. Everything I saw and some of it was at very high levels was shock and surpise-I worked with these folks on an almost daily basis and their responses we're genuine. Saw nothing to indicate govt complicity.

the problem with intell work is similar to doing criminal investigations-the people with intimate knowledge of criminal activity are not going to be a Scoutmaster or Mormon Missionary-you are forced to deal with the realy nasty people. I used to say that a reliable informant was somebody I had in the back of a van with a submachine gun pointed at their head.

I'm not a big, broad conspiracy believer-were JFK, RFK, MLK assassinationed by conspiracies-yes-obvioulsy, but people who keep seeing folks like Morales behind every tree have to understand that I know some of his contemporaries and no one with a direct connect to the Agency would have put themselves in a postion to get grabbed by some over eager cop or caught up in some other bad, dumb luck event.

Hi EM,

Thanks for the comeback, and I agree with your assessment of Feds, with a certain percentage of each category, just like JFK reseachers, some good, some bad, some jerks, but none responsible for our personal and national security, which the Feds are.

While Bill Turner is a hero of mine, and I believe John O'Neill tried to work his way thorugh the compromised beaurcracy of the FBI, there is incompetency on the one hand, neglegance on the other, and criminal neglegance when it comes to the intentional and deliberate actions of certain investigating officers and officials.

I think James Hosty was neglegant for not recognizing LHO as a more significant case than he did, while FBI SA John Zent was criminally neglegant as the "case officer" of Ali Mohamid, who told the RCMP to let him go at the boarder, and failed to report on Ali Mohamid's admission that he was working for al Qaeda in its war against the USA. Looking at Zent's career and his distracting stand up testimony in a triple homicide in which the perpetrator arranged the alibi of having dinner with Zent while the murders were taking place, makes me believe he was just an imbicile. And I'm sure there's a few of those in the FBI.

You can't say the same for others. Like James Fogel and Tommy Corrigan and those in the FBI Special Ops Group who "Got Gotti," who got a tip that PLO terrorists were threatening to blow up casinos in Atlantic City and from July 2 - July 23, 1989, followed, observed and photographed the al Qaeda cell Ali Mohamid trained at Calverton Shooting Range near Brookhaven, on the North Shore of Long Island, New York. While they weren't PLO and didn't try to take out AC, they were invovled in the assassination of Rabbi Kahane and the first WTC bombing.

As one FBI agent put it, "Understand what this means. You have an al Qaeda spy who's now a US citizen on active duty in the US Army, and he brings along a video paid for by the US government to train Green Beret officers and he's ussing it to help train Islamic terrorists so they can turn their guns on us..."

A year later, after one of those trained by Ali Mohamid at Calverton, assassinated Kahane, the FBI and NYPD searched Nosair the assassin's New Jersey apartment and discovered two associates, US Army Special Ops Training Manuals and videos from Fort Bragg that should have led to Ali Mohamid, and 47 boxes of additional evidence. Among the additional evidence was a Federal Firearms License that led to brothers Daniel B. and Ray Murteza, Waterbury, Connecticut gun dealers.

Ray, a former Waterbury police officer and Albanian Muslim, at first denied but later conceeded he sold the .357 mag used to kill Kahane, and practiced firing with Nosair at the High Rock firing range in Naugatuck, Connecticut. This led to the realization that there was a "much broader papperon of paramilitary training by Islamics,...but afer the NYPD declared the Kahane murder a 'lone-gunman' shooting, the FBI apparently terminated the investigation."

Then there was the bad FBI supervisor, Lindley DeVeccio, who helped arrange for mob murders so his confidential informant could be made boss of Columbo mob family, and is now under indictment for four homicides, and could have been brought down back in 1976 for illigally selling handguns in Pennsylvania. DeVeccio wasn't charged by then NY DA Rudy Giuliani because, "the guy was a cop."

Somewhere along the line, these investigations nail the bad guys, then let them off the hook so they can assassinate a Rabbi, blow up the WTC garage and set up 9/11, as if they all took us by surprise.

As a former big city police officer, official trainer and operator of a target range, do you think these guys are suspicious?

And how do we characterize the investigators, who failed to not only connect the dots, but as Peter Lance says, "disconnected them" after the fact.

BK

[Evan Marshall]

[quote

I spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.They really don't need another reason to hate us.

EM,

Have you read Peter Lance's Tripple Cross or know about Ali Mohamad? BK

no to the 1st and that's a fairly common name

left the Fed's and opened a gunshop and indoor range-approx the same hrs (80-90 a week) but atleast I get to sleep in my own bed and the dog's quit growling at me when I show up.

sorry for the delay in responding. Actually had alot more contact with the FBI during my Detroit years than the time I spent in Arkansas and New Mexico. The Bureau is like any other large organizations-there are some sharp people, some real dunces, and the majority are in the middle. When assigned to Homicide I found their profiling work was generally quite good.

like any large organization, promotion and positive recognition is not always connected to doing a good job-I found while assigned to Homicide that the only thing worse than being wrong was being right when it went against the Bosses wishes or agenda.

the longer I spend as a published writer-hundred's of article and column segments in the law enforcement& firearms press and three controversial books on wound ballistics-the more skeptical I become of the written word. Trying to plow thru two books on the JFK assassination currently and its hard because of the authors ability to write-I think they're both on to something but they drag terribly.

I can't go into details re: 911 because my TS Clearance is still active and will be until late 2008 when it expires, but we were set to run several missions that day and had several in progress. Everything I saw and some of it was at very high levels was shock and surpise-I worked with these folks on an almost daily basis and their responses we're genuine. Saw nothing to indicate govt complicity.

the problem with intell work is similar to doing criminal investigations-the people with intimate knowledge of criminal activity are not going to be a Scoutmaster or Mormon Missionary-you are forced to deal with the realy nasty people. I used to say that a reliable informant was somebody I had in the back of a van with a submachine gun pointed at their head.

I'm not a big, broad conspiracy believer-were JFK, RFK, MLK assassinationed by conspiracies-yes-obvioulsy, but people who keep seeing folks like Morales behind every tree have to understand that I know some of his contemporaries and no one with a direct connect to the Agency would have put themselves in a postion to get grabbed by some over eager cop or caught up in some other bad, dumb luck event.

Hi EM,

Thanks for the comeback, and I agree with your assessment of Feds, with a certain percentage of each category, just like JFK reseachers, some good, some bad, some jerks, but none responsible for our personal and national security, which the Feds are.

While Bill Turner is a hero of mine, and I believe John O'Neill tried to work his way thorugh the compromised beaurcracy of the FBI, there is incompetency on the one hand, neglegance on the other, and criminal neglegance when it comes to the intentional and deliberate actions of certain investigating officers and officials.

I think James Hosty was neglegant for not recognizing LHO as a more significant case than he did, while FBI SA John Zent was criminally neglegant as the "case officer" of Ali Mohamid, who told the RCMP to let him go at the boarder, and failed to report on Ali Mohamid's admission that he was working for al Qaeda in its war against the USA. Looking at Zent's career and his distracting stand up testimony in a triple homicide in which the perpetrator arranged the alibi of having dinner with Zent while the murders were taking place, makes me believe he was just an imbicile. And I'm sure there's a few of those in the FBI.

You can't say the same for others. Like James Fogel and Tommy Corrigan and those in the FBI Special Ops Group who "Got Gotti," who got a tip that PLO terrorists were threatening to blow up casinos in Atlantic City and from July 2 - July 23, 1989, followed, observed and photographed the al Qaeda cell Ali Mohamid trained at Calverton Shooting Range near Brookhaven, on the North Shore of Long Island, New York. While they weren't PLO and didn't try to take out AC, they were invovled in the assassination of Rabbi Kahane and the first WTC bombing.

As one FBI agent put it, "Understand what this means. You have an al Qaeda spy who's now a US citizen on active duty in the US Army, and he brings along a video paid for by the US government to train Green Beret officers and he's ussing it to help train Islamic terrorists so they can turn their guns on us..."

A year later, after one of those trained by Ali Mohamid at Calverton, assassinated Kahane, the FBI and NYPD searched Nosair the assassin's New Jersey apartment and discovered two associates, US Army Special Ops Training Manuals and videos from Fort Bragg that should have led to Ali Mohamid, and 47 boxes of additional evidence. Among the additional evidence was a Federal Firearms License that led to brothers Daniel B. and Ray Murteza, Waterbury, Connecticut gun dealers.

Ray, a former Waterbury police officer and Albanian Muslim, at first denied but later conceeded he sold the .357 mag used to kill Kahane, and practiced firing with Nosair at the High Rock firing range in Naugatuck, Connecticut. This led to the realization that there was a "much broader papperon of paramilitary training by Islamics,...but afer the NYPD declared the Kahane murder a 'lone-gunman' shooting, the FBI apparently terminated the investigation."

Then there was the bad FBI supervisor, Lindley DeVeccio, who helped arrange for mob murders so his confidential informant could be made boss of Columbo mob family, and is now under indictment for four homicides, and could have been brought down back in 1976 for illigally selling handguns in Pennsylvania. DeVeccio wasn't charged by then NY DA Rudy Giuliani because, "the guy was a cop."

Somewhere along the line, these investigations nail the bad guys, then let them off the hook so they can assassinate a Rabbi, blow up the WTC garage and set up 9/11, as if they all took us by surprise.

As a former big city police officer, official trainer and operator of a target range, do you think these guys are suspicious?

And how do we characterize the investigators, who failed to not only connect the dots, but as Peter Lance says, "disconnected them" after the fact.

BK

We're in the middle of some delicte business negotiations here at the moment so I can only give this a superifical pass, but remember all of us are human and and capable of short sightness and preconceived notions. I was and am troubled by missed clues in the Oke City Affair and the rush to execute Timmy McVay. The whole Waco things sits badly too.

What's going on now is prep time for another 9/11 and we're going to lose people-alot I'm afraid. One of the assignments I had was to review the Al Quada Training Tapes one of our guys had liberated while serving with Delta in Tora Bora. LE and Govt need to rethink their approach and I'm afraid we'll be confronted by situations where we have to choose between casualities and MASSIVE CASUALTIES. Hope I'm wrong but too many buds on the black side of Spec Ops are telling me they're hearing the same thing. Columbine should have taught that containment is no longer a valid tactic and the Beslan School should have been a case of an rapid breach, and arrest or killing of those holding innocent children.

There is also the fact that some people cannot deal with the horrible reality of Terrorist Behavior and want to not have to think of such horrors. We need alot more accountability AND we have a continued need for tough guys who will stand on the sharp end of the stick and protect us.

There are some folks who are beyond redemption and just need to be killed, and yes I spend every Sunday at the local Mormon Church. I see no conflict in loving God and directly confronting evil.

Edited December 27, 2006 by Evan Marshall

[Guest John Gillespie]

"Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them."

___________________________________

Howard,

That's very well put. Also, I think that Evan's comment today is a cogent one: "They really don't need another reason to hate us. " That much certainly is true and no amount of Grandmothers will change it. It probably hasn't occurred to the speculators that any so-called 'indicators' often are simply put there to confuse. And the tireome, faux-hip one liners about the conduct of Intelligence work reveal nothing more than their fixed state of ignorance. They'll never learn. They don't really want to.

Now, what were we saying about...bliss? What I just wrote is true on both counts. Which is probably why it is time to watch for flying debris.

Regards,

JG

Edited December 27, 2006 by John Gillespie

[Guest John Gillespie]

While the second is a noble sentiment, it also seemed to imply that it was more important to be one of the proverbial sheep being led to a foreign policy slaughter, than to use your [God-given, Higher-Power..Fill in the blank whatever works for you] mind to do one's part to see to it that the country you live in somewhat resemles a country under a democratic form of government.

Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them.

"Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them."

___________________________________

Howard,

That's very well put. Also, I think that Evan's comment today is a cogent one: "They really don't need another reason to hate us. " That much certainly is true and no amount of Grandmothers will change it. It probably hasn't occurred to the speculators that any so-called 'indicators' often are simply put there to confuse. And the tireome, faux-hip one liners about the conduct of Intelligence work reveal nothing more than their fixed state of ignorance. They'll never learn. They don't really want to.

Now, what were we saying about...bliss? What I just wrote is true on both counts. So, now it's time to watch out for flying debris.

Regards,

JG

[Guest John Gillespie]

While the second is a noble sentiment, it also seemed to imply that it was more important to be one of the proverbial sheep being led to a foreign policy slaughter, than to use your [God-given, Higher-Power..Fill in the blank whatever works for you] mind to do one's part to see to it that the country you live in somewhat resemles a country under a democratic form of government.

Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them.

"Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them."

___________________________________

Howard,

That's very well put. Also, I think that Evan's comment today is a cogent one: "They really don't need another reason to hate us. " That much certainly is true and no amount of Grandmothers will change it. It probably hasn't occurred to the speculators that any so-called 'indicators' often are simply put there to confuse. And the tireome, faux-hip one liners about the conduct of Intelligence work reveal nothing more than their fixed state of ignorance. They'll never learn. They don't really want to.

Now, what were we saying about...bliss? What I just wrote is true on both counts. So, now it's time to watch out for flying debris.

Regards,

JG

[Robert Howard]

While the second is a noble sentiment, it also seemed to imply that it was more important to be one of the proverbial sheep being led to a foreign policy slaughter, than to use your [God-given, Higher-Power..Fill in the blank whatever works for you] mind to do one's part to see to it that the country you live in somewhat resemles a country under a democratic form of government.

Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them.

"Ignorance encompasses a gamut of disfunctional mechanisms, but history has demonstrated "bliss" is not one of them."

___________________________________

Howard,

That's very well put. Also, I think that Evan's comment today is a cogent one: "They really don't need another reason to hate us. " That much certainly is true and no amount of Grandmothers will change it. It probably hasn't occurred to the speculators that any so-called 'indicators' often are simply put there to confuse. And the tireome, faux-hip one liners about the conduct of Intelligence work reveal nothing more than their fixed state of ignorance. They'll never learn. They don't really want to.

Now, what were we saying about...bliss? What I just wrote is true on both counts. So, now it's time to watch out for flying debris.

Regards,

JG

Well, at the risk of making myself physically ill, it could be argued there is one person who is in the public eye [much to many's dismay] who also believes something will happen soon; although soon..... in this case is late 2007.

And who would I be referring to than none other than........Pat Robertson; who being one of those very important individuals of whom GOD personally has fireside chats with....has, according to Mr Robertson..."told him" that there will be an......well, on second thought I'll let CNN explain it.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/02/robertson...s.ap/index.html

VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia (AP) -- Evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson said Tuesday that God has told him that a terrorist attack on the United States would cause a "mass killing" late in 2007.

"I'm not necessarily saying it's going to be nuclear," he said during his news-and-talk television show "The 700 Club" on the Christian Broadcasting Network.

"The Lord didn't say nuclear. But I do believe it will be something like that."

Robertson said God told him about the impending tragedy during a recent prayer retreat.

God also said, he claims, that major cities and possibly millions of people will be affected by the attack, which should take place sometime after September.

Robertson suggested in January 2006 that God punished then-Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon with a stroke for ceding Israeli-controlled land to the Palestinians.

END

Which leads to this, very contrived question.

Question: Daddy, why is it that you're not supposed to shout fire in a very crowded movie theater?

Final Thought: Although it is just an observation, there is an element of "everything changes, everything stays the same," with regards to said comments of the Reverend Pat Robertson.

As a child, in the year 1967 or thereabouts, I saw a LP Record in a local record shop; the record was by Jimmy Swaggart, if I am not mistaken. Emblazoned on the cover were the words "Is there a curse on the Kennedy Family?" A few months later I had the misfortune to listen to said record. To cut to the chase, the sermon began by referencing the assassination of Pres. Kennedy.

After the platitudes documenting the tragedy of the assassination through the process of using innuendo as fact the kicker [or answer to the question printed on the LP] was, a passage in the book of Romans.....which begins with "the wages of sin is death," the not so subtle implication is that "JFK was "allowed, or ordained to die" by God himself, a message that was all too acceptable to people in a certain region once referenced by Pres Kennedy himself, as "nut country," which, incidentally was a quote he uttered in said region on the day he was assassinated. Not to be outdone, previously among the sages and seers in that epoch, Jeanne Dixon had ostensibly warned Pres. Kennedy 'not to come to Dallas,' ironically in the last decade or so, it has been postulated that not only was Jeanne Dixon connected to those who resided in the "other world," but also was familiar with H. L. Hunt; they definitely appeared in public together on at least one occasion.

It would be wise to point out that while the Rev. Billy James Hargis was speaking to the local news media in Dallas in the Kennedy Era, about the President as a fellow believer in Jesus Christ, it was quite a different set of circumstances when Rev. Hargis was joined by Gen Edwin Walker for his "Christian Crusade."

"The radical right condemned Kennedy for his "big Government" policies, as well as his concern with social welfare and civil rights progress. The ultraconservative John Birch Society, Christian Anti- Communist Crusade led by Fred C. Schwarz, and the Christian Crusade led by Rev. Billy James Hargis attracted an anti-Kennedy following. The right wing was incensed by Kennedy's transfer of Gen. Edwin A. Walker from his command in West Germany to Hawaii for distributing right-wing literature to his troops. The paramilitary Minutemen condemned the administration as "soft on communist" and adopted guerrilla warfare tactics to prepare for the fight against the Communist foe."

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/selec...html#opposition

See: At home a Troubled Land

There was a lot of shouting fire back in 1963 when Gen Walker and the Reverend Hargis took their Christian Crusade around the country, by the time it was over President Kennedy was quite dead.....

CNN, on its ticker, at the bottom of the screen; according to unofficial sources is reporting that the Bush Administration will be sending 20,000-40,000 troops to Iraq, or, at the very least it is being said unofficially that Pres. Bush will, at least announce this at his address concerning the recommendation's of the Iraq Study Group.

CNN's ticker is also reporting the discovery that millions of dollars have been spent by Corporate Big Oil to discredit scientist who believe strongly that Global Warning is a reality, and not the pie in the sky that the current political leadership feels so comfortable in mocking.

I suppose the God who personally speaks to Rev. Pat Robertson, feels that destroying the ecosystem is pretty low on the moral priority list......And so it goes......

[Robert Howard]

It is rather interesting to note the following news story in light of the stated pronouncement by Osama bin Laden, that the erstwhile goal of Al-Qaeda is to bring the United States to a state of bankruptcy.......

See

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070322/pl_nm/...iraq_gates_dc_2

Despite strains, U.S. could fight a third war: Gates

By Kristin RobertsThu Mar 22, 6:24 PM ET

Defense Secretary Robert Gates cautioned on Thursday the Army would face problems without emergency funds but insisted U.S. forces could fight a third war despite being stretched in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He painted a mixed picture of the impact Iraq has had on U.S. military readiness at a time when Congress is considering tying a Bush administration request for emergency war funding to a deadline for pulling troops out of the conflict.

Gates had raised concerns about a demand by some Democrats to set a deadline. He declined on Thursday to say what Congress should do or to discuss a threat by President George W. Bush to veto a bill linking funds to a withdrawal timetable.

"It's my responsibility to let everybody involved in the debate know the impact of the timing of the decisions," he said. "I think that that's about as far as I should go."

More than four years into the U.S.-led war in Iraq, the U.S. military shows increasing signs of strain. Top defense officials say the United States would prevail in a third major confrontation, but it would take longer.

Asked how the U.S. military was positioned in the face of commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with a major confrontation in a third state, Gates said adversaries should not think the United States too weak to fight.

"Our ability to defend the United States despite the heavy commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan remains very strong and every adversary should be aware of that," he said. He did not identify any specific adversaries.

QUESTIONS REMAIN

But questions remain about readiness, and the secretary enumerated several problems the Army would face if Congress does not pass $100 billion in emergency funding, such as curtailed training and equipment repairs......

The argument could be made that we are playing right into their hands, but I am hesitant to say that as the comment would fall into the category of "you are either with us or with the terrorists."

[John Dolva]

It is rather interesting to note the following news story in light of the stated pronouncement by Osama bin Laden, that the erstwhile goal of Al-Qaeda is to bring the United States to a state of bankruptcy.......

See

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070322/pl_nm/...iraq_gates_dc_2

Despite strains, U.S. could fight a third war: Gates

By Kristin RobertsThu Mar 22, 6:24 PM ET

Defense Secretary Robert Gates cautioned on Thursday the Army would face problems without emergency funds but insisted U.S. forces could fight a third war despite being stretched in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He painted a mixed picture of the impact Iraq has had on U.S. military readiness at a time when Congress is considering tying a Bush administration request for emergency war funding to a deadline for pulling troops out of the conflict.

Gates had raised concerns about a demand by some Democrats to set a deadline. He declined on Thursday to say what Congress should do or to discuss a threat by President George W. Bush to veto a bill linking funds to a withdrawal timetable.

"It's my responsibility to let everybody involved in the debate know the impact of the timing of the decisions," he said. "I think that that's about as far as I should go."

More than four years into the U.S.-led war in Iraq, the U.S. military shows increasing signs of strain. Top defense officials say the United States would prevail in a third major confrontation, but it would take longer.

Asked how the U.S. military was positioned in the face of commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with a major confrontation in a third state, Gates said adversaries should not think the United States too weak to fight.

"Our ability to defend the United States despite the heavy commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan remains very strong and every adversary should be aware of that," he said. He did not identify any specific adversaries.

QUESTIONS REMAIN

But questions remain about readiness, and the secretary enumerated several problems the Army would face if Congress does not pass $100 billion in emergency funding, such as curtailed training and equipment repairs......

The argument could be made that we are playing right into their hands, but I am hesitant to say that as the comment would fall into the category of "you are either with us or with the terrorists."

Today the US is a debtor nation.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HI28Dj02.html

"The debt Americans are incurring is massive. .....Americans borrow nearly $60 billion each month to consume more than they produce. The total debt will exceed $6 trillion by the end of the year.

At the same time, Americans' ability to finance this debt is shrinking, and with it their economic security. By running such massive deficits, the United States is shifting resources in record amounts out of export and import-competing industries, such as auto parts and software, where worker productivity and investments in research and development are high, into non-trade-competing activities, such as restaurants and retirement homes. This lowers GDP immediately and cripples future growth."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040510/greider

"...it may well become the dominating crisis in the next presidential term, whoever is elected. At that point, the United States will lose its aura of unilateral superiority, and globalization will be forced to undergo wrenching change. The American economy, in other words, is in much deeper trouble than most people realize."

http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/thenandnow/

"1914-18 was one of the great watersheds in financial history. The United States emerged for the first time as the rival to Great Britain as a financial super power. Possibly even in some respects, the United States overtook Britain. ... It's the point at which the United States firmly ceases to be a debtor and becomes a creditor nation -- the world's banker.

The fascinating thing, of course, is that that's no longer true. We live in a time when the United States has ceased to be a creditor. It ceased to be a creditor in the 1980's and became a world debtor."

There's so much of the worlds economy today that is 'false'.

The worlds greatest debtor is borrowing to spend on actions to determine the outcomes in much of the rest of the world.

What will happen when the inevitable correcton comes (is there a need for one?).

What will happen when the creditors find themselves needing to call in the debts?

Can lessons be drawn from the post WWI economy?

The rise of Fascist Dictatorships?

I'm no economist, hence the questions. But once a 'correction' starts, particularly when its massive, surely "At that point, the United States will lose its aura of unilateral superiority, and globalization will be forced to undergo wrenching change."

And concurrent with this is a growth of the nations with nuclear arms.

The US (IMO) needs to withdraw from all conflict and start to positively participate in a global Nuclear disarmament movement. Which necessarily will mean a show of will by reducing its own stockpiles.

The alternative seems to be a situation approaching where, if the powers involved continue as they are, a probably limited but serious Nuclear exchange will occur, which may leave some of the participants still 'in the game' but the world will necessarily have become smaller (in terms of poplation and liveable area) and while temporarily a 'correction' has happened. The stage is set once more for a gradual progress to the very same situation once more.

I think people throughout the world need to begin to recognise that the US is not the power it is allowed to be. This is something that every individual can do. The relationship needs to change to where the worlds populations demand of their governments to start to ask the US : "are you with us or against us?"

The Non Aligned Movement, the New Latin-Southern America sans the Monroe Doctrine, a revitalised UN, and no doubt other models exist.

The terrorist acts, whether they are Islamic, Zionist, USA (or any pther label) inspired, are certainly not a model to follow.

[Robert Howard]

Anybody remember the dynamics of the 'Cold War'.....?

UK voices concern at Iran "saber-rattling"

By David Brunnstrom and Louis Charbonneau 12 minutes ago

Britain said on Saturday it was concerned at Iranian "saber-rattling" about possibly putting captured British naval personnel on trial and for the first time voiced regret that the incident had occurred.

Iran's ambassador to Moscow was quoted as saying the 15 Britons captured eight days ago may face trial for illegally entering the Islamic Republic's territorial waters. But he later denied having made the comments, Iran's IRNA news agency said.

Britain insists the sailors were seized in Iraqi waters and Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said such talk worried her.

"Obviously, I am concerned. It is not the first person to have made saber-rattling noises," she told reporters after a European Union foreign ministers' meeting in Germany.

But she struck a conciliatory note when asked by an Iranian television reporter if she had a message for Iran, saying: "The message I want to send is I think everyone regrets that this position has arisen. What we want is a way out of it."

Beckett said Britain had sent Iran a written reply to its diplomatic note on the detention of the sailors in the Gulf but received no response so far.

Iran seized the sailors and marines in the northern Gulf on March 23 when they were on a U.N.-backed mission searching for smugglers. Tehran says they strayed into Iranian waters but Britain insists they were well in Iraqi territory.

The crisis, at a time of heightened Middle East tensions over Iran's nuclear ambitions, has helped push oil prices to six-month highs over concerns an escalation might curb crucial oil exports from the region.

EXCHANGE OF NOTES

Iran's Foreign Ministry delivered a letter to Britain's embassy in Tehran on Thursday, the first written communication between the two capitals since the crisis began.

The IRNA news agency said the Iranian message asked for "necessary guarantees that violations against Iranian waters would not be repeated." But it did not appear to demand an apology from Britain as several officials have called for.

Beckett said: "We have made our response and we are now beginning to discuss. As you may know it's a holiday period in Iran and it's perhaps not too helpful."

The Iranian government is largely shut down for the two-week Nowruz holiday, a pre-Islamic Persian new year, which began on March 21 and ends next Tuesday.

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, who was mandated on Friday by the 27-nation bloc's foreign ministers to seek the Britons' immediate release, said he had not yet been able to speak to Iranian leaders but his staff had made first contacts.

There were more confusing signals from Tehran on Saturday about Iran's intentions.

The IRNA news agency said Iran's ambassador to Moscow, Gholamreza Ansari, had denied comments attributed to him by Russian television station Vesti-24 that the sailors might be taken to court and punished.

It had earlier quoted him as saying on Friday evening: "The legal phase concerning these British soldiers has started and if charges against them are proven, they will be punished."

Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said on March 25 Iran was considering charging the sailors with illegally entering its waters.

Student members of the Basij religious militia from across Iran issued a statement on Saturday demanding that the British embassy in Tehran be closed down, calling it the "corruption nest of the British old devil," IRNA said.

They also invited students to protest outside the embassy on Sunday, the ISNA news agency said.

It came a day after Iran displayed three of the detained Britons on television and released a letter from one saying she was being held because of "oppressive" British and U.S. behavior in Iraq.

EU foreign ministers voiced solidarity with Britain but stopped short of suspending normal business with Tehran as London has done. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said the sailors must be freed before any trial or sentence.

British forces have been deployed in southern Iraq since joining the U.S.-led invasion of the country in 2003. Britain and the United States accuse Iran of allowing sophisticated weapons used to target their forces to be brought into Iraq.

Additional reporting by Fredrik Dahl in Tehran and Adrian Croft in London

[Robert Howard]

Anybody remember the dynamics of the 'Cold War'.....?

UK voices concern at Iran "saber-rattling"

By David Brunnstrom and Louis Charbonneau 12 minutes ago

Britain said on Saturday it was concerned at Iranian "saber-rattling" about possibly putting captured British naval personnel on trial and for the first time voiced regret that the incident had occurred.

Iran's ambassador to Moscow was quoted as saying the 15 Britons captured eight days ago may face trial for illegally entering the Islamic Republic's territorial waters. But he later denied having made the comments, Iran's IRNA news agency said.

Britain insists the sailors were seized in Iraqi waters and Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said such talk worried her.

"Obviously, I am concerned. It is not the first person to have made saber-rattling noises," she told reporters after a European Union foreign ministers' meeting in Germany.

But she struck a conciliatory note when asked by an Iranian television reporter if she had a message for Iran, saying: "The message I want to send is I think everyone regrets that this position has arisen. What we want is a way out of it."

Beckett said Britain had sent Iran a written reply to its diplomatic note on the detention of the sailors in the Gulf but received no response so far.

Iran seized the sailors and marines in the northern Gulf on March 23 when they were on a U.N.-backed mission searching for smugglers. Tehran says they strayed into Iranian waters but Britain insists they were well in Iraqi territory.

The crisis, at a time of heightened Middle East tensions over Iran's nuclear ambitions, has helped push oil prices to six-month highs over concerns an escalation might curb crucial oil exports from the region.

EXCHANGE OF NOTES

Iran's Foreign Ministry delivered a letter to Britain's embassy in Tehran on Thursday, the first written communication between the two capitals since the crisis began.

The IRNA news agency said the Iranian message asked for "necessary guarantees that violations against Iranian waters would not be repeated." But it did not appear to demand an apology from Britain as several officials have called for.

Beckett said: "We have made our response and we are now beginning to discuss. As you may know it's a holiday period in Iran and it's perhaps not too helpful."

The Iranian government is largely shut down for the two-week Nowruz holiday, a pre-Islamic Persian new year, which began on March 21 and ends next Tuesday.

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, who was mandated on Friday by the 27-nation bloc's foreign ministers to seek the Britons' immediate release, said he had not yet been able to speak to Iranian leaders but his staff had made first contacts.

There were more confusing signals from Tehran on Saturday about Iran's intentions.

The IRNA news agency said Iran's ambassador to Moscow, Gholamreza Ansari, had denied comments attributed to him by Russian television station Vesti-24 that the sailors might be taken to court and punished.

It had earlier quoted him as saying on Friday evening: "The legal phase concerning these British soldiers has started and if charges against them are proven, they will be punished."

Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said on March 25 Iran was considering charging the sailors with illegally entering its waters.

Student members of the Basij religious militia from across Iran issued a statement on Saturday demanding that the British embassy in Tehran be closed down, calling it the "corruption nest of the British old devil," IRNA said.

They also invited students to protest outside the embassy on Sunday, the ISNA news agency said.

It came a day after Iran displayed three of the detained Britons on television and released a letter from one saying she was being held because of "oppressive" British and U.S. behavior in Iraq.

EU foreign ministers voiced solidarity with Britain but stopped short of suspending normal business with Tehran as London has done. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said the sailors must be freed before any trial or sentence.

British forces have been deployed in southern Iraq since joining the U.S.-led invasion of the country in 2003. Britain and the United States accuse Iran of allowing sophisticated weapons used to target their forces to be brought into Iraq.

Additional reporting by Fredrik Dahl in Tehran and Adrian Croft in London

While this topic thread's central focus is events happening in and around Iran and subjects in relation to that country. I felt that this development in the Good Old U.S. of A. merited a mention......

.......After spending 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle dress, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys, the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team of the U.S. Army will be returning to the U.S.

On the face of it this sounds like good news, doesn’t it? Except for this very important fact:

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

This new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

See democracynow.org for a news report confirming this development.

May you live in interesting times - Old Chinese Proverb

Edited September 28, 2008 by Robert Howard