The Purloined Projectile

[Charles Black]

In reference to the nasty, ungentlemanly and obviously ridiculous posts of Ashton.

I have seen and heard many persons say that they were misquoted. Some were correct.

However it shows great direspect to the intelligence of all forum members, to suggest that we cannot read the words that Ashton wrote.

I wonder how he has so far escaped those gentlemen in "white coats".

In the words of a million now dead Native Americans, "This White Man speaks with "FORKED FINGERS" !

In my not so humble but honest opinion; debating Ashton is as intelligent as debating an inmate in an asylum. I am embarrased that I allowed myself to be "baited" into doing so. The proper word should be de-BAIT rather than debate.

Charlie Black

[Dawn Meredith]

In reference to the nasty, ungentlemanly and obviously ridiculous posts of Ashton.

I have seen and heard many persons say that they were misquoted. Some were correct.

However it shows great direspect to the intelligence of all forum members, to suggest that we cannot read the words that Ashton wrote.

I wonder how he has so far escaped those gentlemen in "white coats".

In the words of a million now dead Native Americans, "This White Man speaks with "FORKED FINGERS" !

In my not so humble but honest opinion; debating Ashton is as intelligent as debating an inmate in an asylum. I am embarrased that I allowed myself to be "baited" into doing so. The proper word should be de-BAIT rather than debate.

Charlie Black

Charlie,

For the last several days your posts in this thread are all to attack the forum member you claim is baiting you.

So you disagree with Ashton Gray. You have made this more than abundantly clear. I fail to see how he is baiting you. This name calling is really demeaning. You have questioned his intelligenece, his sanity, and his motives. Yet you claim that he is baiting YOU. The way I see it you are baiting yourself. Please disagree where you feel you have a valid issue then move on. Talk of "white coats" has no place in this discussion. These personal attacks are really degrading to all forum members and readers alike. Thank you.

Dawn

[Charles Black]

Hello Dawn & general membership

I wish to apologize if I have stated something about Mr. Gray that might be demeaning to the forum, although I shall not apologize to Mr. Gray.

However, regarding what Dawn posted in her immediately prior entry, I feel that it is quite uncalled for. Ashton Gray is not innocent in this matter regardless of how much that you may personally respect him.

I would like to refer you to Ashton's post # 38 which I feel is as despicable a post as I have ever read on this or any forum.

I quote Ashton Gray from his post #38

"While the resident spin doctor spins like a dreydl DIPPED IN SEWAGE, spattering malicious filthy fictions in its path, while the howler monkeys chatter and FLING THEIR DUNG...."

Do you still feel that my questioning of his sanity and forum conduct to "not be in order".

Yes Dawn ! I consider his post "QUITE BAITING".

I feel that I have every right to have said "much more", and "in a much more degrading manner". I am sorry but I do not accept your appraisal and condemnation of me, and I am quite offended by it.

I don't feel that I am a bully who makes a practice of attacking helpless "innocents".

I personally do continue to feel that he posts questions meant to deceive and are based on "very small amounts of fact". I think his intent is purposeful and nefarious....and are in general designed to MISLEAD newcomers to this research.

I feel that I have every right in the world to state this belief, as I have seen this type of action undertaken on several forums, which has had the result of stimulating "personal argument" and dissension as he has obviously just done.

I feel that I was attacked in a manner that any human being, having even an ounce of self respect, would have responded to. You may refer to it in any manner that you wish.....I call it BAITING and very cowardly.

I stand firmly behind EVERY WORD which I have directed toward Ashton Gray.

I feel that is I to whom an apology is owed !

Charlie Black

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Hello Dawn & general membership

I wish to apologize if I have stated something about Mr. Gray that might be demeaning to the forum, although I shall not apologize to Mr. Gray.

However, regarding what Dawn posted in her immediately prior entry, I feel that it is quite uncalled for. Ashton Gray is not innocent in this matter regardless of how much that you may personally respect him.

I would like to refer you to Ashton's post # 38 which I feel is as despicable a post as I have ever read on this or any forum.

I quote Ashton Gray from his post #38

"While the resident spin doctor spins like a dreydl DIPPED IN SEWAGE, spattering malicious filthy fictions in its path, while the howler monkeys chatter and FLING THEIR DUNG...."

Do you still feel that my questioning of his sanity and forum conduct to "not be in order".

Yes Dawn ! I consider his post "QUITE BAITING".

I feel that I have every right to have said "much more", and "in a much more degrading manner". I am sorry but I do not accept your appraisal and condemnation of me, and I am quite offended by it.

I don't feel that I am a bully who makes a practice of attacking helpless "innocents".

I personally do continue to feel that he posts questions meant to deceive and are based on "very small amounts of fact". I think his intent is purposeful and nefarious....and are in general designed to MISLEAD newcomers to this research.

I feel that I have every right in the world to state this belief, as I have seen this type of action undertaken on several forums, which has had the result of stimulating "personal argument" and dissension as he has obviously just done.

I feel that I was attacked in a manner that any human being, having even an ounce of self respect, would have responded to. You may refer to it in any manner that you wish.....I call it BAITING and very cowardly.

I stand firmly behind EVERY WORD which I have directed toward Ashton Gray.

I feel that is I to whom an apology is owed !

Charlie Black

Hey Charlie,

Seeing as how I was one of your targets a few weeks ago, and since you adressed your post to all of us, I thought it would be germaine to post your greatest hits from the month of January alone.

You no doubt are illiterate, a fool, or an exhibitionist that doesn't mind showing your ass to the entire world

With what type of person do you usually correspond that would find your "non-reponse" of any significance ?

This as unscientific a post as I have ever read.

What has happened to COMMON SENSE ? Why do all of the emerging modern Sherlock's, suddenly believe that the Parkland Staff was unprofessional, incompetent, and had been infiltrated by a cadre of "murderers with MD degrees"

This thread has followed the ridiculous circular path as has the JFK assassination in general.

Didn't intend to be offensive. However there might be a reason that my lovely bride is always reminding me that "TACT is not something nailed into a wall"

Cliff, I would venture a guess that you are not a very efficient "duck hunter" !

I (me personally), feel that you are a "hack" journalist who craves attention to such an extreme,

It is YOUR posts that I frequently refer to as "tabloid quality" and very disingenuous.

I feel that there are those forum participants who are so "combative", that they would rather participate in an attack and feeding frenzy, than to pursue what I long conceived to be the purpose of this forum.

The real impression should be that I don't really care what you might think of "that particular theory".....but it is quite disappointing to me that you almost never introduce anything new.

These discussions are no doubt so far above my personal intellectual level, that I probably do not really qualify as a member of this forum.

Perhaps I am crazier than I accuse some others of being !

Mr Gray has been doing some very questionable things in my opinion.

I was originally going to offer apologies to the shoes that I would no doubt step on........I have decided otherwise.

This in my not so humble opinion, is as obvious a "Grasp at Straws" as I have EVER seen. It is not a grasp, but a giant leap into space ! I find it unbelievable that members of this particular forum, are so easily swayed.

I offer no apologies when I absolutely state that I feel this thread has gone Looney Tunes.....and there are no doubt a number of members whom it well satisfies !

Have you completely lost it...or have I ?

Ashton..I am beginning to seriously worry about you as you are getting not only "curiouser and curiouser".....but maybe "paranoider and paranoider".

Yet those who most avidly argue my position, bring forth mental giants such as Zavada and Groden

"You should seriously seek help"!......as you certainly seem certifiable.

[Paul Rigby]

Hey Charlie,

Seeing as how I was one of your targets a few weeks ago, and since you adressed your post to all of us, I thought it would be germaine to post your greatest hits from the month of January alone.

Hey Mark,

Show Charlie how it's really done:

Spooks, Hoods & The Hidden Elite, killed JFK/Mark Valenti/Jan 26 2007, 03:22 PM Post #38:

Mr. Dankbaar:

Don't be such a dick.

And just in case the inattentive reader thought the above was a one-off, here's our real pro a few exchanges later in the same thread:

Mark Valenti/Jan 26 2007, 05:43 PM Post #46:

It was indeed dickish of you to post a picture of a black circle, intimating an insult to my powers of visual discernment. If you feel that this claim of dickosity is in error, that's your opinion. In my schoolyard, that remains a move of dick-like proportions, a hit-and-run type of dickensian insult - make a provocation then wonder what all the fuss is about.

What an impressive rhetorical amalgam: pomposity, puerility, and predictability.

Face it, Charlie, you're a mere amateur when it comes to childish insults.

[Charles Black]

Hello Mark

Since YOU have been one of the objects of my "criticisms", it is understandable to me that you are willing to pursue "any cove in a storm" in which you feel that you might have support. That is only human and I admire, at least, your willingness to bring the matter up and confront me with it in a responsible and reasonable manner.

However I (me personally) feel that you are being deliberately quite disingenuous when you are taking my quotes, out of order and out of context, and inserting them as the supposed ravings of a madman.

If these quotes are re-inserted into the paragraphs and posts from which was their origin.....I don't feel that they would have the same impact on someone reading them as they do in the manner which "you chose" to present them. You attempted to paint an ugly picture and it probably would seem so until someone were to read "in entirety" these dissected threads.

To be quite truthful, I did and still do, mean exactly what I stated....however they must be read in "the exact context" in which they were stated.

Inerjecting quotes anywhere in a text that one desires, should obviously be seen as a deliberate

attempt to press a "point", although in the context so presented, a "point" which may be considerably off center. I must have truly offended you in order for you to have made the necessary effort of researching your last post.

However I admit that at times passion overcomes me and I am sometimes rude.

BUT

Since you are joining in an attack upon me, I would like to ask that even if I were rude, did I refer to your comments as "DIPPED IN SEWAGE"...."FILTHY FICTICIOUS"...and FLINGING DUNG ? ? ?

I believe that Ashton has digged far beneath what I consider normal forum criticism, and I still feel that his "rantings", are so far out of control, that "sanity" might be questioned by any reasonable person.

Charlie Black

[Guest Mark Valenti]

What an impressive rhetorical amalgam: pomposity, puerility, and predictability.

Face it, Charlie, you're a mere amateur when it comes to childish insults.

Dear Eleanor,

Your Hitchens-lite post (compost?) doesn't defend Dankbaar The Vampire, I trust. But I do defer to your expertise in pomposity, dear boy.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Hello Mark

Since YOU have been one of the objects of my "criticisms", it is understandable to me that you are willing to pursue "any cove in a storm" in which you feel that you might have support. That is only human and I admire, at least, your willingness to bring the matter up and confront me with it in a responsible and reasonable manner.

However I (me personally) feel that you are being deliberately quite disingenuous when you are taking my quotes, out of order and out of context, and inserting them as the supposed ravings of a madman.

If these quotes are re-inserted into the paragraphs and posts from which was their origin.....I don't feel that they would have the same impact on someone reading them as they do in the manner which "you chose" to present them. You attempted to paint an ugly picture and it probably would seem so until someone were to read "in entirety" these dissected threads.

To be quite truthful, I did and still do, mean exactly what I stated....however they must be read in "the exact context" in which they were stated.

Inerjecting quotes anywhere in a text that one desires, should obviously be seen as a deliberate

attempt to press a "point", although in the context so presented, a "point" which may be considerably off center. I must have truly offended you in order for you to have made the necessary effort of researching your last post.

However I admit that at times passion overcomes me and I am sometimes rude.

BUT

Since you are joining in an attack upon me, I would like to ask that even if I were rude, did I refer to your comments as "DIPPED IN SEWAGE"...."FILTHY FICTICIOUS"...and FLINGING DUNG ? ? ?

I believe that Ashton has digged far beneath what I consider normal forum criticism, and I still feel that his "rantings", are so far out of control, that "sanity" might be questioned by any reasonable person.

Charlie Black

Charlie,

I don't mean to be disingenuous, I was only acting out my frustration with the tenor of your recent posts. There's no denying Ashton's tongue sword can be too sharp at times, and he has been on the receiving end of numerous pin pricks for it these days. But I believe you are both good men with good intentions, and that you will both soon stop the antagonism.

I believe you are a sincere guy with a good eye for detail -- and I also think you have been leading with your frustration in your posts. It reached a tipping point with me. Often if someone doesn't respond to your posts it's because the details need to be considered seriously - and in some cases for a long time. It doesn't mean your post isn't being read or considered at all.

The fisticuffs between you and Ashton are distracting, no doubt about it. The blows have been going on since the new year began and show no signs of abating. To some, this is sport. To others it's annoying. The nature of a public forum means that we can give and take as we wish, and others may comment - witness my retort to Rigby in the previous message. He finds me childish, I find him insufferable. Maybe some day we'll agree on some key element to the JFK mystery, maybe not.

But these things percolate constantly, and sometimes they boil over. A release of steam can do wonders. That's all mine was.

[Chuck Robbins]

And this topic is now about what? LOL

I guess these posts could qualify as projectiles of a sort?

Are we done?

[Charles Black]

What an impressive rhetorical amalgam: pomposity, puerility, and predictability.

Face it, Charlie, you're a mere amateur when it comes to childish insults.

Dear Eleanor,

Your Hitchens-lite post (compost?) doesn't defend Dankbaar The Vampire, I trust. But I do defer to your expertise in pomposity, dear boy.

Mark

COMPOST ?

You and your mentor, Ashton, apparently have an affinity toward the nasty and undesirable !

COMPOST

DIPPED IN SEWAGE

FILTHY FICTIONS

FLING THEIR DUNG

I certainly hope for those in proximity of the two of you, that you wash your little fingers vigorously after such posts.

Charlie Black

[Frank Agbat]

Is anyone actually interested in solving the case?

I can't help but think that every time one of the threads on this forum degrades into this state of affairs, somewhere a mockingbird smiles, whistles a little tune, and feels somewhat safer.

[Charles Black]

Frank

I agree with you that this has deteriorated rapidly into something very ugly.

What I don't understand is the willingness for forum members to place the fault squarely on my shoulders. I feel that the true venom spewed from Ashton. I merely stated that I felt that his theory, was supported by absolutely nothing factual and that I felt that this was an attempt on his part to purposely misguide the forum. He repeatedly stated that he had evidence to support his views of Trauma Room throat punctures, and that he could prove that no projectile struck Kennedy's anterior throat. He of course had no such proof and therefore being unable to produce it said some vile things as some form of childish retaliation.

Whether one wishes to believe it or not, I personally feel that such wild claims, with no supporting evidence, should definitely be challenged.....other wise those that are new to this subject, could consider his un supported theories as fact. I feel that not bringing this to Ashton's attention, by perhaps some that consider themselves "personally close" to him, and who do not wish to hurt his feelings, is a "great disservice" to this forum .

My criticisms have been his lack of evidence which led me to state, that without supporting evidence, his theories sounded insane. He has done this repeatedly in the past and has been allowed to get away with no ones questioning. I feel that he has gone too far and it is my personal feeling that his

purpose is to mislead and confuse.

And yes, I feel that his venomous, absolutely "nasty" outbursts relating to "sewage", "dung", and "filthy fictions" are completely uncalled for and should not be tolerated.

I would like for you to read this entire 4 pages of thread, and then tell me that "the blame falls on Charles Black, and that Ashton had every right to engage "in the venomous tirade", which I suggested was "insane".

I frankly do not care what any of you think of me personally, because not one of you knows me personally. I have stated what I absolutely believe and I have not heard any sensible support or facts supporting Ashton's theories.

I have been made a whipping post for telling someone the truth that I feel that his theories are not even in the ball park, and that I feel that his purpose is nefarious!

And yes Frank ! I am a person who "Only" wants solution and justice brought about regarding this

assassination. However I feel that the forum's following of "planted Pied Pipers" has set this research back 20 years. This planting is the major element in this cover up....it is successful !

Charlie Black

[Pat Speer]

Frank

I agree with you that this has deteriorated rapidly into something very ugly.

Charlie Black

Charlie, I agree that Mr. Gray is a deliberate pain. I actually feel sorry for those who wanted to believe in him, after he came here with his strange ideas about Watergate, but now must face the fact that his idea of "solving" the Kennedy case is to trumpet that Dr. Perry and Nurse Bowron killed Kennedy. My, what a letdown... Next thing you know he'll be saying that the Newmans' children were cardboard cutouts concealing weapons, and using Bill Newman's ever-changing memory as his proof.

But Charlie, Mark has a point as well. Getting involved in a flame war is not the answer. If you combat Ashton on the facts, he will have a tirade, insult your intelligence, and announce to everyone that you're beneath his contempt and not worth debate. He will then create a name for you so that he can insult you at will without looking like the bad guy. (I'm the CIA sockpuppet, resident disinformationist, etc... that he loves to attack but refuses to name.) And why has he singled me out? Because I refuse to believe 1) that Nixon was set up by the CIA, with the cooperation of virtually everyone around him, so that Gerald Ford could become President, and keep the lid on the CIA's experiments with Remote Viewing, and 2) his name is actually Ashton Gray and, the photograph provided is actually him. I am 100% convinced he is a phony. You should be as well. Don't let him get under your skin.

[Chuck Robbins]

You know, there was an article in a newspaper years ago, which stated that the newspaper got a

bullet from a Dr. who had taken it from JFK's autopsy.

This paper made a huge squak about this piece of evidence, promised all sorts of testing would be

done, etc., and in the end..the story just kind of went away.

Maybe the Fink had a conscience after all? Too bad the newspaper learned the truth about "The Truth"

in America...

Paraphrasing Mr. Hunt...You don't have a right to know the truth..... I bet they were forced to drop everything.

I'd be very interested in anything else that can be turned up about it.

I find it so consistent with everything I know about these weasels that the story they flogged about the back wound bullet coming out on a stretcher in Dallas due to manipulations of the body was actually their brand of "truth"—just moved from D.C. to Dallas and from an autopsy table to a stretcher. In other words, they absolutely love to take a truth and twist it and pervert it so it becomes a trap like flypaper for anybody who touches it. It's the truth in it that is the attraction, and it's the lies in it that are gooier than any tar.

It's a sick, diseased sort of brilliance.

Ashton

OK, I found the files on my computer. Unfortunately, I still cannot upload anything with explorer or firefox...weird.

So, I went to the site and searched it manually until i finally found the files which mention the "other bullet".

Interesting stuff.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=311

There are 4 pages. Hope you can find more regarding what happened to the bullet in question.

[Ashton Gray]

You know, there was an article in a newspaper years ago, which stated that the newspaper got a

bullet from a Dr. who had taken it from JFK's autopsy.

This paper made a huge squak about this piece of evidence, promised all sorts of testing would be

done, etc., and in the end..the story just kind of went away.

Maybe the Fink had a conscience after all? Too bad the newspaper learned the truth about "The Truth"

in America...

Paraphrasing Mr. Hunt...You don't have a right to know the truth..... I bet they were forced to drop everything.

I'd be very interested in anything else that can be turned up about it.

I find it so consistent with everything I know about these weasels that the story they flogged about the back wound bullet coming out on a stretcher in Dallas due to manipulations of the body was actually their brand of "truth"—just moved from D.C. to Dallas and from an autopsy table to a stretcher. In other words, they absolutely love to take a truth and twist it and pervert it so it becomes a trap like flypaper for anybody who touches it. It's the truth in it that is the attraction, and it's the lies in it that are gooier than any tar.

It's a sick, diseased sort of brilliance.

Ashton

OK, I found the files on my computer. Unfortunately, I still cannot upload anything with explorer or firefox...weird.

So, I went to the site and searched it manually until i finally found the files which mention the "other bullet".

Interesting stuff.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=311

There are 4 pages. Hope you can find more regarding what happened to the bullet in question.

Extraordinary. Thank you very much for this.

I will be posting the evidence of Burkley's whereabouts at relvant times this week.

The relentless ad hominem attacks, avoiding all pertinent facts at issue, and the very few sources of these attacks, are of abiding interest. More to come.

Ashton