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I have just submitted six reports on posts in this thread alone consisting of the kinds of ad hominem attacks on me for which I have been issued public warnings for saying anything similar to others (only after enduring their inane attacks on me indefinitely with not a whisper from an administrator).

I've been subjected to double standards before, so it's nothing new, but I've had enough and decided to make notice of it here.

I will report every future instance without exception, and will post about each report when made.

Ashton Gray

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Ashton

Here is another nasty slander of the type to which you have grown accustomed. Your much repeated promises of "evidence to come", has, from past performance, lost a great deal of legitimacy to those who once thought that you posessed some degree of literacy regarding this subject.

And another reportable slander....those constant promises of "more to come" places me in absolute agony, as I had hoped "that I had heard the last of it".

Charlie Black

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Ashton, if calling someone you believe to be a phony a phony is an ad hominem attack, I'll eat your hat. You have called people liars you believe to be liars since almost your first day here. If anyone here has met you and will vouch you are the man in your photo I'll stop. But no matter what anyone else says, nothing will make you stop. Correct?

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ISN'T THIS ALL BECOMING JUST A LITTLE BIT RIDICULOUS?

Seriously, nothing anyone says, which is designed to lessen someone elses stature on this forum, will change my thoughts or views regarding my beliefs about who was responsible...etc. etc. for the assassination of JFK.

Anyone who seems intent upon minimizing anothers point of view regarding this event is doing all a disservice.

We all have the faculties to determine, for ourselves, which statements, when made, or, which evidence, when presented, is within the realm of possibility.

No matter what, ultimately, we all must decide for ourselves what evidence, whether "solid" or "anecdotal" is acceptable.

I, for one, believe that much of what is accepted as evidence today is nothing more than fiction.

The fox was guarding the henhouse. The fox, once the chicken was dead, was charged with investigating that death.

Much of what shapes my opinions and beliefs is the evidence which was dismissed out of hand by the fox.

Chest thumping while relying upon the so-called accepted evidence might not be the wisest course one could pursue.

After all, can any one of us state, with absolute certainty, which evidence is credible and which is not?

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As promised, here is my earlier post regarding George Gregory Burkley, personal physician to John F. Kennedy, with evidence and cites:

  1. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was not at any relevant time on any bus—as you have been maliciously misled to believe, right here in this thread—but was in what was called "the VIP car" in the motorcade.

    "We, therefore, were put in a so-called VIP vehicle."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

    "On arrival in Dallas, Texas there was a long motorcade. Mrs. Lincoln—the President's Secretary—and I were in what Mr. Behn called the VIP car, which followed the cars containing the local and national representatives."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination


  2. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was at Parkland Hospital, by his own admission, within as little as three minutes of the arrival of JFK at Parkland hospital.

    "I was there probably within three to five minutes of the time the President arrived. I went immediately in to see the President, and went to the table on which he was being treated... ."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

    "Agent Roger commandeered a car and a police escort led us at a rapid rate to the hospital arriving there between three and five minutes following the arrival of the President."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination


  3. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was indeed in the small Trauma Room 1 on Dr. Carrico's arrival in the room, just as Dr. Carrico has testified, and Jacqueline Kennedy was seated outside Trauma Room 1 on a folding metal chair during those early crucial minutes.

    "I went directly to the Emergency Room on the ground floor of the hospital and Mrs. Kennedy was seated in a folding chair directly beside the door of the
    small
    room in which the President was being observed. I immediately entered the room, went to the head of the table and viewed the President."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

    "When I first observed him [President Kennedy] I was in the emergency room, seeing— Actually Governor Connally had been brought in first, as you know, Dr. Dulany and I had gone to care for Governor Connally, and when the President was brought in I left Governor Connally and went to care for the President. ...Admiral Burkley, I believe was his name, the President's physician, was there as soon as he got to the hospital.
    —Dr. Charles James Carrico
    ,
    Warren Commission Hearings testimony, 30 Marc h 1964


  4. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY personally supplied John F. Kennedy's blood type, which happened very early on, before Nurse Henchliffe left Trauma Room 1 to go get the necessary blood, which she says was within about two minutes of JFK's actual arrival inside Trauma Room 1.

    "I...told them his blood type."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

    "I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type... ."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Affidavit, 28 November 1978

    "The team was working to supply 'O' Rh negative blood and I informed them that his blood group was 'O' Ph
    [sic]
    positive."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Margaret M. Henchliffe:

    HENCHLIFFE:
    I found out who it was when I went out to get blood.

    SPECTER:
    About what time of day was that?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    Well, I guess it was
    about 2 minutes after he came in.

    SPECTER:
    Did you observe him at some place in the hospital?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    I was working with him in the emergency room.

    SPECTER:
    ...Were you in the area of the emergency room before he came there?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    Yes.

    SPECTER:
    Did you see him actually wheeled into the emergency room?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    Yes; in fact, I helped wheel him on into trauma room 1.

    SPECTER:
    And, where was he when you first saw him?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    He was between trauma rooms 1 and 2.

    SPECTER:
    ...Were you present all the time he was in the emergency room?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    Except when I left out to get blood.

    SPECTER:
    And how long were you gone?

    HENCHLIFFE:
    Oh, about 3 minutes or so; 3 or 4 minutes.


  5. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY then was in Trauma Room 1 with Nurse Diana Bowron, who is documented as having lied about the throat wound.

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Diana Bowron:

    SPECTER:
    Where did Dr. Carrico join you?

    BOWRON:
    At the— I couldn't really tell you exactly, but it was inside major surgery. Miss Henchliffe, the other nurse who is assigned to major surgery, was in the trauma room already setting the I.V.'s—the intravenous bottles up.

    SPECTER:
    And were there any other nurses present at that time when the President arrived in the trauma area?

    BOWRON:
    I don't think so, sir.

    SPECTER:
    Were there any doctors present besides Dr. Carrico?

    BOWRON:
    I didn't notice anybody.
    There may have been.


  6. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1 with Nurse Diana Bowron when Kennedy's clothing was partially removed, including his tie and the opening of his shirt.

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Secret Service Special Agent Roy H. Kellerman:

    KELLERMAN:
    ...While he lay on the stretcher in that emergency room his collar and everything is up... .

    FORD:
    But while he was on the stretcher in the emergency room you saw his face?

    KELLERMAN:
    That is right.

    FORD:
    But he had his tie and his collar still—

    KELLERMAN:
    Still on.

    FORD:
    Still on?

    KELLERMAN:
    Yes, sir.

    "When the President's clothing was removed at Parkland Hospital, his tie was cut off by severing the loop immediately to the wearer's left of the knot... ."
    —Warren Commission Report

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Diana Bowron:

    BOWRON:
    ...We tried to start an I.V. cutdown and I don't know whether it was his left or his right leg, and Miss Henchliffe and I cut off his clothing... .

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Malcolm Perry:

    McCLOY:
    ...[W]hen you first saw the President, was he fully clothed, or did you cut the clothing away?

    MALCOLM PERRY:
    ...Dr. Carrico and the nurses were all in attendance, they had removed his coat and his shirt, which is standard procedure, while we were proceeding about the examination, for them to do so.

    McCLOY:
    But you didn't actually remove his shirt?

    MALCOLM PERRY:
    No, sir; I did not.


  7. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1 and personally "checked the President's physical condition," "viewed the President" at the "head of the table," and "saw President Kennedy's wounds at Parkland Hospital."

    "I went immediately in to see the President, and went to the table on which he was being treated... .""
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

    "I saw President Kennedy's wounds at Parkland Hospital... . I checked the President's physical condition... ."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Affidavit, 28 November 1978

    "I immediately entered the room, went to the head of the table and viewed the President."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination


  8. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1 when the cutdowns were done to start administering fluids to JFK. Jaqueline Kennedy was still outside Trauma Room 1 on a folding metal chair. Some hospital personnel felt she even was being neglected and arranged for some water for her, and asked if she would like to remove her bloodstained gloves, which she would not do.

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Diana Bowron:

    BOWRON:
    ...We tried to start an I.V. cutdown and I don't know whether it was his left or his right leg, and Miss Henchliffe and I cut off his clothing... .

    "I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type and some adrenal medication (Sol U Cortef) to place in the intravenous blood and fluids which were being administered."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Affidavit, 28 November 1978

    "I went directly to the Emergency Room on the ground floor of the hospital and Mrs. Kennedy was seated in a folding chair directly beside the door of the
    small
    room... ."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

    "Mrs. Kennedy was sitting on a brown metal chair with left side almost in line with the trauma room door. She was composed but apparently in shock. She still had on her bloodstained gloves, her face was smudged and apparently nobody had done anything for her. This disturbed me deeply, and the first opportunity I had to catch Mrs. Nelson, I asked her to please do something; for Mrs. Kennedy. ...I offered to get Mrs. Kennedy, who was sitting outside of Trauma Room #1, a towel, and asked her if she would like to remove her gloves, which were saturated with blood. She said: 'No thank you, I'm all right.'"
    —WH21, Price Exhibit No. 7


  9. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1, within arms' reach, when Malcom Perry came in and had the conversation with Dr. Carrico about the throat wound, then started the tracheotomy.

    From Warren Commission Testimony of Malcolm Perry:

    MALCOLM PERRY:
    ...Dr. Jones and I went immediately to the emergency room to render what assistance we could. At the time of our arrival in the emergency room, the President was already there, and as I entered trauma room No. 1, Dr. James Carrico, the surgical resident on duty, had just placed an endotracheal tube to assist respiration.

    SPECTER:
    ...Did you observe any other doctors in the room at that time?

    MALCOLM PERRY:
    No, sir; I did not.
    There was somebody else in the room, but I don't know who it was.
    I remember only Dr. Carrico--

    SPECTER:
    What did you observe as to the President's condition at the time you first saw him ?

    MALCOLM PERRY:
    He was lying supine on the emergency cart directly in the center of the room under the overhead lamp.
    His shirt had been removed
    , and
    intravenous infusion was being begun in the right leg
    , I believe. ...The President's eyes were deviated and dilated and he was unresponsive. There was a small wound in the lower anterior third in the midline of the neck, from which blood was exuding very slowly. ...I determined only the fact that there was a wound there, roughly 5 mm. in size or so. ...At that point
    I asked Dr. Carrico if this was a wound in his neck or had he begun the tracheotomy, and he said it was a wound
    , and I, at that point, asked someone to get me a tracheotomy tray, and put on some gloves and. initiated the procedure.


  10. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY not only was already in Trauma Room 1 when steroids were administered to John F. Kennedy, but in fact ordered the administration of the steroids himself, and in fact supplied the steroids to be used: SolU Cortef (spelled in evidence as Sol U Cortef). The assertion that Carrico administered steroids on his own is yet another willful and malicious falsehood designed to deceive. The source in testimony of that falsehood is Malcolm Perry himself—entered into the record under the guiding questioning of John J. McCloy himself—and the motive for the lie was to cover up the presence and activities of George Gregory Burkley inside Trauma Room 1. That's the same motive behind someone in this very thread propagating that exact McCoy-Perry supplied lie for no other purpose but maliciously to confuse and deceive you.

    "I gave them some hydrocortisone, to put in the intravenous which was being given... ."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

    "I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type and some adrenal medication (Sol U Cortef) to place in the intravenous blood and fluids which were being administered."
    —Admiral George Gregory Burkley
    ,
    Affidavit, 28 November 1978

    Perjury (willful false testimony under oath) from Warren Commission Testimony of Malcolm Perry :

    MALCOLM PERRY:
    ...It is to Dr. Carrico's credit, I think, he ordered the hydrocortisone for the President having known he suffered from adrenal insufficiency and in this particular instance being quite busy he had the presence of mind to recall this and order what could have been a lifesaving measure, I think.


  11. ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY personally went into the corridor and brought Jacqueline Kennedy into Trauma Room 1 only after the tracheotomy incision had been made—when he was damned good and ready for her to be there.

    DR. PETERS:
    When I arrived...Dr. Perry and Dr. Baxter were present and that they were working on his throat. ...[W]e asked for a set of tracheotomy tubes to try and get one of the appropriate size. I then helped Dr. Baxter assemble the tracheotomy tube which he
    inserted into the tracheotomy wound that he and Dr. Perry had created.

    SPECTER:
    Were there any others present at that time, before you go on as to what aid you rendered?

    DR. PETERS:
    ...Mrs. Kennedy was in the corner with someone who identified himself as the personal physician of the President. I don't remember his name.

    SPECTER:
    Dr. Burkley ?

    DR. PETERS:
    I don't know his name. That's just who he said he was, because he was asking that the President be given some steroids... .


Spin that.

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray
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Ashton

I'm tired of this. Just two questions.

1) Does this lengthy immediately prior post of yours explain to the forum, the manner in which the Parkland Trauma team, aided in the assassination of President Kennedy? And why they so assisted?

Is this the "proof" which you continue to promise?

2) Referring to your forementioned previous post:

Does this provide the proof which you promised that no missile entered the President's anterior throat?

Or that Admiral Burkely lied to the Bethesda Staff, and also never left the autopsy room?

I only NOW ask for these proofs which you voluntarily offered to support your position. They were never asked for !

I knew that you could type, for which I didn't need proof. I also knew that you CANNOT present the PROOF which you on several ocassions promised. How did you think that you would present "truths" to this forum which do not exist?

Your lack of understanding, that you can't prove things that have never happened, somehow alludes you.

I would think that most people who have a life beyond following this forum, would also require such proof if you are ever to have credibility !

Charlie Black

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Mr. KELLERMAN. In the emergency room with him. Which after a few minutes they convinced her to leave, and she sat outside the room while they were working over the President. I walked into this center area of this emergency room--and I am looking for a telephone which there is a little doctor's office and I walked inside, and I am alone at that time, except one medic who was in there. There are two phones and I said, "Can I use either one of these phones to get outside?" and he said, "Yes; just pick one up."

By this time Mr. Lawson enters and also Mr. Hill. I asked Mr. Lawson for the telephone number of the Dallas White House switchboard. He immediately has it and I said to Mr. Hill, "Will you dial it, please?" By that time a medic comes into the room from President Kennedy's section and he asks if anybody knows the blood type of the President--President Kennedy. We all carry it. I produce mine, and that is what I believe they used; I am not sure.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. CARRICO - I believe we were to where the endotracheal tube had been inserted. After this, the President--his respirations were assisted by the Bennett machine. We again listened to .his chest to attempt to evaluate the respirations. Breath sounds were diminished, especially on the right, despite the fact that the endotracheal tube was in place and the cuff inflated, there continued to be some leakage around the tracheal wound. For this reason Dr. Perry elected to perform a tracheotomy, and instructed some of the other physicians in the room to insert chest tubes, thoracotomy tubes. At the beginning of the resuscitation attempt intravenous infusions had been started using polyethylene catheters venesection, lactated renger solution, and uncross-matched type O Rh negative bloods were administered and 300 mg. of hydrocortisone were administer

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VICE ADMIRAL GEORGE G. BURKLEY

1. I was with President Kennedy in Dallas. I arrived at the Parkland Hospital within five minutes of the President's arrival. I checked the Presidents physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type and some adrenal medication (Sol U Cortef) to place in the intravenous blood and fluids which were being administered. My findings clearly indicated that death was certain and imminent.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BURKLEY: We might mention something about the assassination here which will clear the record I think, to a great degree. When we were in Fort Worth, Mrs. Lincoln and I were in the second car in the motorcade. When we arrived in Dallas the President got off one end of the plane. Mrs. Lincoln and I got off the other end of the plane, and when we got to the bottom of the stairs, the motorcade was already in motion and I complained to the Secret Service that I should be either in the follow-up car or the lead car.

McHUGH: Who did you speak to at that time?

BURKLEY: Members of the Secret Service. And they said it couldn't be arranged, that the politicians had gotten in that group of cars, that every one wanted to be in those cars, and also the motorcade was in action. We, therefore, were put in a so-called VIP vehicle

BURKLEY:Most of the time, however, I was within one or two cars of the President. This was one of the few times that this did not occur. The only other time that it did not occur, to my direct recollection, is when we were in Rome, and we were in the VIP bus. And actually, at that time, the VIP bus practically got lost, and we never get to the Quirinale Castle. We went direct to our hotel. However, now this will not exist, and I hope in the future that any subsequent physicians to Presidents will have no such problems.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination

Bus: Evelyn Lincoln, the President's personal secretary; Mary Barelli Gallagher, Jacqueline Kennedy's personal secretary; Pamela Turnure; Jacqueline Kennedy's press secretary; Marie Fehmer Chiarodo, the Vice President's secretary; Liz Carpenter, staff director for Lady Bird Johnson; Jack Valenti, in charge of press relations during President Kennedy's visit to Texas; a Dr. Barkley; and a few others

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...eport_0035b.htm

"an official party bus for White House staff members and others"

Note: This reports that Burkley was in a car. He was not!

He was on the White House Staff bus with Evelyn Lincoln. The "VIP Car/Bus.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol22_0062a.htm

CE1126

If one will note, Admiral Burkley tells of riding in the VIP Car (aka bus) all the way to the Tade Mart, and then having to find a ride back to Parkland Hospital.

Also, one should note his statement as to where Jackie Kennedy was located when he arrived at Parkland.

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Mr. KELLERMAN. In the emergency room with him. Which after a few minutes they convinced her to leave, and she sat outside the room while they were working over the President

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One will also note that when Admiral Burkley arrived, blood was already being administered to JFK.

All that Burkely did was inform of the correct type as opposed to the

http://www.deltabloodbank.org/d_otype.html

O Rh Negative

As an O Rh negative donor, there is a great need for your blood donation. Your type is uncommon -- only 6 percent of the population is O Rh negative. It is the type we need for patients with negative blood types and for emergencies.

O Rh negative patients generally receive blood only from O Rh negative donors. People with every other blood type can safely be transfused with O Rh negative blood in an extreme emergency, before their own blood type can be determined.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is why they pay so much for O RH Negative blood as it can be universally administered in emergencies. So, Burkley's comments had absolutely ZERO to do with the blood which was already being administered when he arrived at Parkland.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/mas...t/pdf/md128.pdf

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
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Ashton

I'm tired of this.

That's what you keep claiming. But you keep coming back, don't you?

Just two questions.

We'll see if you can count.

1) Does this lengthy immediately prior post of yours explain to the forum, the manner in which the Parkland Trauma team, aided in the assassination of President Kennedy? And why they so assisted?

That's ONE question. And here's my final answer: I have no obligation to "explain to the forum," or to you, anything. I've posted evidence and my own conclusions about what's proven from the evidence, the latter subject to change at my whim, without your permission.

Is this the "proof" which you continue to promise?

That's TWO questions. Quote where I "continue to promise" "proof" of anything. Here's a guaranteed prediction: you won't. You know why? Because fiction doesn't leave a paper trail, so you have nothing to back up your fiction with. I said I would document what I consider proven beyond any reasonable doubt. I said I would be methodically and mercilessly documenting those conclusions with evidence. I am, and I'm going to continue.

So just go ahead and make up as many phony charges to level at me as it takes to make you feel better about not being able to rebut the evidence.

2) Referring to your forementioned previous post:

Does this provide the proof which you promised that no missile entered the President's anterior throat?

That's THREE questions. So you can't count. Maybe that explains why you can't grasp the simple obvious proof, beyond any reasonable doubt, that no missile possibly could have entered John F. Kennedy's throat at the location of the throat wound, even when it's been posted repeatedly (for which you offer not a shred of effective rebuttal). So here it is again—not for you, because you've demonstrated conclusively that you can't grasp it, but for others:

throatwoundplussuit.gif

throatleftsmall.gif

Now, you be sure to ask me again, okay? Because I'm happy for every opportunity you supply me to post these again.

Or that Admiral Burkely lied to the Bethesda Staff, and also never left the autopsy room?

That's FOUR questions. You can count on your fingers next time and avoid these kinds of unseemly displays.

Until you start quoting exactly what I said, and then ask polite relevant questions concerning what you've actually quoted that I said, you will be studiously ignored. And I know for a fact that you won't quote me, because then you won't be able to fill up so much forum space with your armies of straw men and your hateful accusations.

Ashton Gray

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Mr. KELLERMAN. ...By that time a medic comes into the room from President Kennedy's section and he asks if anybody knows the blood type of the President--President Kennedy. We all carry it. I produce mine, and that is what I believe they used; I am not sure.

Great. A big useless "maybe." Thanks.

The question has already answered conclusively three times. Did you fall asleep? Here, let me refresh your memory:

"I...told them his blood type."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

"I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type... ."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
Affidavit, 28 November 1978

"The team was working to supply 'O' Rh negative blood and I informed them that his blood group was 'O' Ph
[sic]
positive."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

Hang in there; I just know you're going to be able to get this.

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray
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ISN'T THIS ALL BECOMING JUST A LITTLE BIT RIDICULOUS?

Seriously, nothing anyone says, which is designed to lessen someone elses stature on this forum, will change my thoughts or views regarding my beliefs about who was responsible...etc. etc. for the assassination of JFK.

Anyone who seems intent upon minimizing anothers point of view regarding this event is doing all a disservice.

We all have the faculties to determine, for ourselves, which statements, when made, or, which evidence, when presented, is within the realm of possibility.

No matter what, ultimately, we all must decide for ourselves what evidence, whether "solid" or "anecdotal" is acceptable.

I, for one, believe that much of what is accepted as evidence today is nothing more than fiction.

The fox was guarding the henhouse. The fox, once the chicken was dead, was charged with investigating that death.

Much of what shapes my opinions and beliefs is the evidence which was dismissed out of hand by the fox.

Chest thumping while relying upon the so-called accepted evidence might not be the wisest course one could pursue.

After all, can any one of us state, with absolute certainty, which evidence is credible and which is not?

Hello Chuck

You comments as to different "points of view" is certainly applicable to this case.

However I am not referring to points of view.

I am referring to Ashtons statement that he could PROVE that what was diagnosed by the Parkland medical specialist as appearing to be a bullet entrance wound was not that. He futher stated that he could PROVE that JFK "was not" struck in the throat during the motorcade, but that he had had his throat "punctured" by murderers on the Parkland Staff. He promised this PROOF to be forthcoming.

Again, we are not referring to "points of view" !

We are looking at as direct an accusation as a single gunman theory supporter might state if he were to say, I can PROVE that a single gunman fired all shots and...."my proof will be forthcoming".

Which of course it both never does nor ever can.

Trying to perceive this as merely "different points of view" is quite an understatement. In my opinion, this is attempted misdirection of the highest order and is probably even less "unsupportable" than the ever resurrecting theory that Agent Greer shot the President.

Charlie Black

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination

Bus: Evelyn Lincoln, the President's personal secretary; Mary Barelli Gallagher, Jacqueline Kennedy's personal secretary; Pamela Turnure; Jacqueline Kennedy's press secretary; Marie Fehmer Chiarodo, the Vice President's secretary; Liz Carpenter, staff director for Lady Bird Johnson; Jack Valenti, in charge of press relations during President Kennedy's visit to Texas; a Dr. Barkley; and a few others

:blink: You're quoting Wikimockingbird as a "source" for a claim that Admiral George Gregory Burkley was on a "bus," when the Wikimockingbird claim itself cites not a single source, and they can't even spell Burkley's name right?

Is this some kind of joke? What, are you Beetle Bailey?

And you want to lecture me about research? :lol:

BURKLEY:...when we were in Rome, and we were in the VIP bus.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Here's a gentle clue, Seargent Bilko: The assassination happened in Dallas, Texas.

You oriented now? Do you need a compass and a map?

Because in Dallas, Burkley was in a VIP car.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...eport_0035b.htm

...Note: This reports that Burkley was in a car. He was not!

Really! He was not? Why was he "not," Kilroy? Because you say so?

This has already been answered conclusively. Why are you trying to create so much confusion where there is no confusion at all? It gets so tedious giving these remedial lessons. Try really hard to pay attention this time, will you please? Here it is again:

"On arrival in Dallas, Texas there was a long motorcade. Mrs. Lincoln—the President's Secretary—and I were in what Mr. Behn called
the VIP car
, which followed
the cars
containing the local and national representatives."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

Now, of course, whether Dr. Burkley was in a car, van, bus, semi, VW bug, tank, troop carrier, shuttle, tram, trolley, or UFO doesn't change a thing about when he got to Parkland and into Trauma Room 1, so you can spend the rest of your life slicing and dicing vehicle descriptions, measurements, colors, models, makes, and chrome trim as far as I'm concerned. Meanwhile, the testimony of Burkley himself is that he was in a VIP car. Period.

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray
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Also, one should note his statement as to where Jackie Kennedy was located when he arrived at Parkland.

Oh, good! Let's do! Here's his relevant statement:

"I went directly to the Emergency Room on the ground floor of the hospital and Mrs. Kennedy
was seated
in a folding chair directly beside the door of the small room in which the President was being observed."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

So let's see what your xxxx-Speak/Lawyer-Speak Comprehension Quotient score is, Private Bailey:

  1. Is the verb phrase "was seated" active or passive?
  2. Is the verb phrase "was seated" transitive or intransitive?
  3. What is the inflection of the verb?
  4. When was Mrs. Kennedy "seated in a folding chair directly by the door"?
  5. By whom was Mrs. Kennedy "seated in a folding chair directly by the door"?
  6. Was Mrs. Kennedy already "seated in a folding chair directly by the door" when Burkley went into Trauma Room 1, or was she seated there by someone at some indeterminate time after his arrivial?

You don't know any definite answer to a single question above, do you? You can't know from the wording of the report. It's impossible to know. That's not accidental. That's the way it was written.

It was written that way for the same reason that:

  • Admiral George Gregory Burkley never once, in all his testimony and reports, gives even the slightest mention to the throat wound or the tracheotomy. If there were no other record than that of the personal physician to the President of the United States—who was there in Trauma Room 1—the world would know a sum total of zero about there ever having been any throat wound at all or any tracheotomy.
  • Almost without exception, the testimony from all Parkland medical personnel is vague and evasive about the presence or absence of Admiral George Gregory Burkley at any particular time, and actual lies have been documented as having been told in testimony to cloud his presence and activities in Trauma Room 1.
  • Certain medical personnel who, by the record, had to know that Admiral George Gregory Burkley was President Kennedy's personal physician, and who, by the record, were certainly aware of his presence, omitted all mention of his presence in Trauma Room 1.

And while I'm not prepared to post further evidence on these points at the moment, but will be soon, I think that while we're on this subject of Mrs. Kennedy, it only fair to draw your attention now to the following statement by Burkley:

"I gave them some hydrocortisone, to put in the intravenous which was being given, and also told them his blood type. ...I
then
contacted Mrs. Kennedy, who
was sitting outside
... ."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967

We'll be revisiting it.

Ashton Gray

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Forum members

I "sincerely hope" that this will be my last post in this thread.

Those of you who might find my following statements degrading will please accept that they are obviously not directed at "that group of you".

Very often, both now and throughout History, there have been some severely incorrect perceptions, of individuals who have had the gift of orating or writing with "gifted vocabulary". Vocabulary and INTELLECT are not necessarily conjoined.

There are of course some beautifully written fictional texts, which in detail enwrap the reader in a "fairy tale world" which can enter and capture a readers thought processes to the extent that one nearly has to shake himself free of these seeming truths.

Throughout history, there have been many Svengalis, Goebells and Hitlers. Some may call them propagandists....some may call them divinely gifted

and some may see them as charming leaders.

I consider them as oratory "hypnotists" who are able to lead from a believable partial truth, to finally a very misconstrued picture by taking a series of small steps that each of which is not "beyond reason".

Of course, the less an audience is educated in a paricular "manufactured" situation, the more easily that they are led. This is why that I, in several previous posts, refer to such disinformationists as "Pied Pipers" who have the ability to completely distort and finally destroy reason.

The reality is that I have nothing against this Ashton Gray, whom I have never met. As a matter of fact I have a great deal of respect for anyone that

thru oratory can have persons purchase his faulty construction, although it is obvious to all, that its foundation is based in quicksand.

It is in fact really not Ashton that I question !

Charlie Black

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As promised, here is my earlier post regarding George Gregory Burkley, personal physician to John F. Kennedy, with evidence and cites:

ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was not at any relevant time on any bus—as you have been maliciously misled to believe, right here in this thread—but was in what was called "the VIP car" in the motorcade.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol22_0062a.htm

"Mrs. Lincoln, the President's Secretary, and I were in what Mr. Behn called the VIP car,"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/mas...t/pdf/md128.pdf

"Mrs. Lincoln also mentioned what she thought was a curious incident in Dallas prior to the assassination. She said that she was with Dr. Burkley (then physician to the President) when they were somewhat suprised at being "shoved" back in the motorcade into a bus."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/f...pter_eight.html

Among the last to learn that anything had gone awry were the passengers of the hapless VIP bus. They had been instructed to go directly to the rear of the Trade Mart. But there were no Dallas policemen at the rear entrance. The guards were Texas state policemen who weren't tied into the radio network and didn't know what had happened. None of them, moreover, had seen a White House pass. They had been told that Secret Service agents would vouch for bona fide Kennedy people. But most of the agents had left for Parkland after picking up Kellerman's distress signal over the Charlie network. The result was an icy reception for Dr. Burkley…"

"Suddenly Dr. Burkley vanished. Burkley had never deserted Evelyn [Lincoln] before but he sensed that something terrible had happened. The atmosphere was ominous. Strangers were reeling around in circles....With his chief pharmacist's mate in tow, the doctor flagged Agent Andy Berger, who was about to leave in a police cruiser. The physician had just tossed his black bag on the floorboard when Chuck Roberts of Newsweek ran up. "Let me go with you," Chuck begged. Burkley, usually gentle, slammed the door in his face; the cruiser skirred into Harry Hines Boulevard and dropped the doctor outside Parkland's emergency entrance minutes after the President's disappearance within." (Manchester, op. cit, page 174)

Interim Assessment:

The delay in getting treatment for President Kennedy obviously consumed several precious minutes. The initial resuscitative attempts performed by Dr. Carrico before the arrival of Dr. Perry must have consumed several more minutes. No one was keeping a record of the time that had transpired, but it is reasonable to conclude that Dr. Burkley's detour to the Dallas Trade Mart did not prevent him from arriving in the Parkland Emergency Room at an early point in the President's emergency treatment. Despite the lack of "a clock," by reconstructing the sequence of the President's treatment it is nevertheless possible to identify a specific event upon which we can more precisely peg Burkley's arrival at his patient's side. The key to this analysis is the hydrocortisone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE DAY KENNEDY WAS SHOT by Jim Bishop, Copyright 1968

Page 157:

""Dr. Burkley, on the wrong bus and taken to the Trade Mart against his will, came into the room."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BURKLEY:Most of the time, however, I was within one or two cars of the President. This was one of the few times that this did not occur. The only other time that it did not occur, to my direct recollection, is when we were in Rome, and we were in the VIP bus. And actually, at that time, the VIP bus practically got lost, and we never get to the Quirinale Castle. We went direct to our hotel. However, now this will not exist, and I hope in the future that any subsequent physicians to Presidents will have no such problems.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warre.../chapter-2.html

Vice-Presidential follow-up car.--Driven by an officer of the Dallas Police Department, this vehicle was occupied by three Secret Service agents and Clifton C. Garter, assistant to the Vice President.123 These agents performed for the Vice President the same functions that the agents in the Presidential follow-up car performed for the President.

Remainder of motorcade.--The remainder of the motorcade consisted of five cars for other dignitaries, including the mayor of Dallas and Texas Congressmen, telephone and Western Union vehicles, a White House communications car, three cars for press photographers, an official party bus for White House staff members and others, and two press buses. Admiral George G. Burkley, physician to the President, was in a car following those "containing the local and national representatives." 124

Police car and motorcycles. 125 --A Dallas police car and several motorcycles at the rear kept the motorcade together and prevented unauthorized vehicles from joining the motorcade.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In event one has trouble with "forward" thinking, perhaps reverse order thinking may help.

Last:-------------------------------------------------Several motorcycles at the rear.

Next to last:-----------------------------------------Dallas Police car.

In front of Dallas Police Car:----------------------Two Press Buses

In front of two Press Buses:-----------------------an "official party" Bus for White House Staff members (see Evelyn Lincoln)

In front of "Official Party" Bus:-------------------- 5 cars which contained local dignitaries and the press.

Admiral George G. Burkley, physician to the President, was in a car following those "containing the local and national representatives." 124

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, of course, whether Dr. Burkley was in a car, van, bus, semi, VW bug, tank, troop carrier, shuttle, tram, trolley, or UFO doesn't change a thing about when he got to Parkland and into Trauma Room 1, so you can spend the rest of your life slicing and dicing vehicle descriptions, measurements, colors, models, makes, and chrome trim as far as I'm concerned. Meanwhile, the testimony of Burkley himself is that he was in a VIP car. Period.

Ashton Gray

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, you do not wish to be confused with the facts???

Perhaps if one deletes "mushrooms" from their diet, (thereby avoiding the "mushroom syndrome") they may be able to recognize exactly what vehicle Admiral George Burkley rode, where he ended up when this vehicle reached it's destination, as well as the fact that he absolutely could not have reached Parkland Hospital within 3 to 5 minutes after JFK arrived.

http://www.vetshome.com/military_special_f...es_history1.htm

Worn from: 21 November 1970.

The patch was worn by air force troops who participated in the raid on the prison camp in North Vietnam. The inscription "KITD/FOHS" refers to the fact that the air force support elements were not privy to much of the information about the raid; hence, "kept in the dark/fed only horse xxxx." This statement is also alluded to in the design of a pair of worried eyes peeking out from under a mushroom

P.S.

Just got off the phone with my cousins "Beetle Bailey" and "Jethro Bodine".

Both fully understood that:

A. Evelyn Lincoln, secretary to JFK, rode on the VIP Bus during the motorcade in Dallas.

B. Admiral George Burkley, Physician to JFK. rode with Evelyn Lincoln.

C. ERGO!:-----Burkley rode on the VIP Bus.

Therefore, anyone who can not resolve this highly complicated aspect of the assassination is not too likely to stumble across anything which has that much merit, and is also most unlikely to either recognize or understand it were they to actually stumble across it.

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"Mrs. Lincoln, the President's Secretary, and I were in what Mr. Behn called the VIP car,"

Oh, good: he was in a car.

She said that she was with Dr. Burkley (then physician to the President) when they were somewhat suprised at being "shoved" back in the motorcade into a bus."

Oh, good: he was in a bus.

"Suddenly Dr. Burkley vanished.

Oh, good: he was on the Magic Bus.

"Dr. Burkley, on the wrong bus and taken to the Trade Mart against his will, came into the room."

Oh, good: he was on the wrong bus, and it crashed into a room at the Trade Mart.

George G. Burkley, physician to the President, was in a car following those "containing the local and national representatives."

Oh, good: he was in a car.

In event one has trouble with "forward" thinking, perhaps reverse order thinking may help.

Oh, good: yeah, that should help a lot.

Speaking of "reverse order thinking" (now that you brought it up), and very germane to what you spend a good deal of time doing in these forums (such as the above): isn't it true that gaining officer and instructor status in the Special Forces required considerable training in brainwashing and coercive persuasion techniques, including but not limited to familiarity with works referenced in the CIA manual "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation," et seq.?

If so, that's not "personal": that goes to social engineering, and I think it's a very, very relevant disclosure that should be made, pertinent to exactly what these forums are addressing.

Meanwhile:

"On arrival in Dallas, Texas there was a long motorcade. Mrs. Lincoln—the President's Secretary—and I were in what Mr. Behn called the VIP car, which followed the cars containing the local and national representatives."
—Admiral George Gregory Burkley
,
WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination

And it still doesn't alter by one jot when Admiral George Gregory Burkley was inside Trauma Room 1, no matter how many more second- and third-hand "sources" you run around chasing up to confuse people further. And it never will.

So you go ahead and wait on the bus. I'm moving on to Trauma Room 1.

Ashton Gray

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